Pack downs Horns 77-74

11-12 Basketball79

State trailed 65-47 with 11:50 to play before finishing the game on a 27-12 run to pull out the quality win and move to 4-1 on the season. Leslie scored 17, Wood 16 and Brown 11.

Box Score (ESPN).

Recap (WRAL)

The game was on ESPN3.com, which many of us don’t have access to so we didn’t see it. Feel free to discuss this game below or over on the SFN Forums.

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11-12 Basketball

79 Responses to Pack downs Horns 77-74

  1. howlie 11/22/2011 at 7:58 AM #

    I loved seeing DY hugging our guys in the tunnel after the game.

  2. PackMan97 11/22/2011 at 8:07 AM #

    In my opinion, folks were high on Barnes for a few simple reasons:

    1. He’s a great coach. He took Clemson to three straight NCAAs. He’s taken Texas to THIRTEEN straight NCAAs including two Elite Eights and three Big 12 regular season titles. Yes, that’s a great coach. Not Elite like K or Roy, but still great.

    2. He doesn’t take crap from anyone and isn’t scared of the brother’s blue.

    What I have yearned for in my 20 suffering years as an NC State coach is someone competent enough to get us in the top 25 most of the time and who won’t back down to Duke and Carolina. I want someone who has that fire in their belly to do their best and a chip on their shoulder. For the most part, I saw that in Rick Barnes. I DEFINITELY see that in Mark Gottfried.

    I’m super excited about what Gottfried is doing with our program and wouldn’t change him for any coach out there at this point. I think we found our man!

  3. Pack78 11/22/2011 at 8:15 AM #

    ” We are about winning more NCs and passing Duke and UNC-BS “-a classic quote ancsu87-great win and an apt description of that bag of $hit to our west…

  4. Gene 11/22/2011 at 8:49 AM #

    “Barnes is a good coach but I was never enamored with him like some were.”

    Barnes would’ve been a huge leap over the coaches we’ve had in the past 20 years. He wins much more than he loses and with him in charge, we should’ve been relevant again, even if we never hung a banner; we’d feel like every year we’d have a punchers chance of hanging one.

    I think with replacing Lowe, Barnes wouldn’t have been a great choice, because he’s not getting younger. He’s in his late 50’s and I don’t know, if he has the same desire to develop programs, like he did in his younger days with Clemson.

    I think he’d have been a great choice to replace Sendek. He’s proven he can win. He can make deep runs in the NCAA tournament. He likes the ACC territory. I think he could’ve rebuilt the lack of bodies Sendek left behind, in a much better manner than Lowe did.

    Also, he’d have lent a bit instant credibility back to the program, after the media kept bitching about how NCSU couldn’t attract big name coaches, because no one would want to compete with Duke or UNC-Ch, or how we ran the bestest coach ever out, and demonstrated this by a panicked hiring of Lowe, who sucked as a HC and put together what seemed to be a demotivated staff, put together by what seems to be a bit of cronyism.

    Not only were Towe and Q. Jackson parts of the NCSU program, who had done next to nothing exceptional at the collegiate level, but Pete Strickland was Lowe’s senior coming out of Dematha.

  5. BJD95 11/22/2011 at 8:58 AM #

    I thank the staff and players for giving us a great moment. Let’s just take a deep breath and remember to keep our heads if and when we have a rougfh stretch this season. It WILL happen.

    Rome wasn’t built in a day, and everything this season is gravy but give lots of credit to this group for producing it.

    The best part for me is the killer instinct – realizing that an opportunity had presented itself, and seizing it by the throat. That’s what winners do.

    And I really, truly don’t mean to beat a dead horse. But there shouldn’t be revisionist history regarding Lowe. He was woefully unprepared and ill suited for this job (and by all insider accounts, didn’t work that hard). Wish him well in future endeavors, but don’t try to sell me a bill of goods. What this season should do is make you gasp in astonishment at how Fowler was dumb and lazy enough to give that failed expeiment FIVE years, and be bound and determined to give it even more. That’s why you’ll never see that jackass in the AD chair ever again. And hell, even Todd Turner got more chances after burning NC State to the ground.

    I have a phrase in mind that describes what Gottfried is doing – “The Power of Competence.” That’s meant as a great compliment, by the way. So far he’s done wonders for the cutlure just by being a professional and working hard.

    The good omen for the future is that he’s been in the “valley” before and won’t get complacent with his first year revival (as Lowe’s staff certainly did). He will work to get better, and get the program at least to the “nationally relevant” level. After what I’ve seen the past twenty years (only fringe relevant with a gimmick system that limited our upside potential), I will build statues in his honor if he gets us nationally relevant on a fairly consistent basis.

    Anything more? Well, back to my gravy analogy.

  6. tuckerdorm1983 11/22/2011 at 9:17 AM #

    I see it this way. I have watched every game. From my perspective there is a lot of room for improvement. For instance. We should have put them away several times in the last 2 mins. We did not because of nerves or whatever. That can be fixed. We don’t rebound well on the offense boards nor block out well. Free throw shooting has to improve. Some players lower their heads with the ball and head to the basket and it becomes 1 on 5. We really need to develop a 3 pt threat from at least two players. As I watched Texas light us up and the Brown kid torch us. CJ needs a post game.

    I think many of those things can be fixed and fixed now. The more we play good teams the better things will get. The upside with this team is awesome. If de Thaey can hit a 3 point shot at that size we will have to play him.

    Dare I say it. This team might slip up and beat a couple of teams within say 20 or 30 miles of Raleigh.

  7. Bowlpack 11/22/2011 at 9:20 AM #

    I have a significant amount of family members that attended Alabama and when I asked what they though of Coach Gott the general response was that he was a great recruiter, but couldn’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag. Sounds kind of like Rick Barnes, huh?

    So far, he has proven my “rammer jammer yellow hammers” wrong and has shown that he can, in fact, coach a basketball team.

    1. Look at the attitude difference from last year
    2. Look at the designed plays that work (inbound 3 for Wood late in the second half)
    3. In game defensive adjustments (help on the high screen to J’covan Brown)
    4. Players in great shape and able to play long minutes
    5. Look at the attitude difference from last year (lot’s of fight in this dog)

  8. JeremyH 11/22/2011 at 9:37 AM #

    BJD95 I agree 100%.

    And that is why, I think now, Gottfried was a better choice than Barnes. He is young and hungry. He doesn’t have the name recognition, out to build a program and make a name. He has a school name like NC State behind him while he gets his bearings : )

    I didn’t watch the game; is Alex Johnson this year’s Engin Atsur?

  9. Prowling Woofie 11/22/2011 at 9:37 AM #

    Remember, guys – Gott is not alone on that bench.

    I love the way the team is fighting and playing together, and I’m sure Coach Gottfried deserves much credit for the change in attitude. However, he’s got an experienced bench of competent coaches also working with our guys, and I’m sure what we’re seeing is the cumulative effect of a terrific staff working together.

    I’m betting the team is getting a good look at ‘teamwork’ by watching their coaching staff.

    Onward and upward, Pack !!!

  10. Bowlpack 11/22/2011 at 9:51 AM #

    I agree with you, Tuckerdorm. This team has a long way to go before we start to sound the trumpets, but the potential is there and we are at least competitive now. That means that we’re going to beat some teams that we wouldn’t have the last few years and we’re probably going to take some lumps as well.

    Rebounding is probably the biggest area of improvement that I’ve seen and we’ve generally done well as I think that last night was the first time we’ve been out paced in that statistical category this season. We were really out of position and given that Texas doesn’t have a big team is a bit of a concern (I’d like to see the rebound breakdowns from 1st to 2nd half as we were definitely out hustled early).

    The long range shooting has been flat, though and it even took Wood a few tries to get the stroke down. DeThaey looked a little lost last night and it may take him a few games to get used to the speed of play and understanding where to be on defense before he can comfortably focus on his scoring. I’m assuming that he can shoot the 3 (he is a European after all). Johnson hit one out of two attempts and we were at 33% which is about the norm for 3-pt percentage.

    I do like that we try to pound it inside. Leslie, Howell and Painter are going to have to get better at finishing. How many shots did we miss right around the rim? Leslie has got to work on his foul shot. That thing is ugly (is he trying to bank it in?).

  11. whitey1 11/22/2011 at 9:55 AM #

    This is a fun team to watch… I hope we fill the arena up for the “bad” ACC games!

  12. PackMan97 11/22/2011 at 10:58 AM #

    “Prowling Woofie Says: Remember, guys – Gott is not alone on that bench.”

    +216

    I first started feeling this would be different when I saw Gottfried hire Lutz, Early and Moxley. Not only were all of these guys experienced coaches, they have all worked together at various points in their careers and knew what each brought to the table. Best of all, they were all willing to give up a good thing to come to Raleigh. It’s not as if any of them were in a bad spot with all of them only being at their jobs for a year.

    It’s odd, but I started getting bad vibes with Lowe when he only hired folks he knew but had never worked with and I really knew we were in trouble with the Quentin Jackson hire.

  13. Lunatic Fringe 11/22/2011 at 11:01 AM #

    I know that this board is labeled HateFans nation so CLEARLY should be the bad guys that always view the glass half empty (sarcasm), but I have been very happy with the discussion on this board concerning the basketball team all year long.

    A foot in reality (thanks for BJD keeping us grounded), but also acknowledging the improvements.

  14. logarithm 11/22/2011 at 1:07 PM #

    I was pleased with Derrick Whittenburg’s commentary as well, and I almost always hate commentators. He gave coach-type insight and gave credit where it was due without just blathering on about how wonderful anybody is.

  15. Hamlet 11/22/2011 at 1:24 PM #

    I shall refrain from being too negative in response to some of you…eh, less experienced (??) observers posting about Barnes, Lowe, and Gottfried. Let’s make this short and sweet:

    1. Sidney Lowe is a TERRIBLE head coach at ANY level (yes, I would even include high school or any sized college or JC). The man simply isn’t prepared and has no “management” skills. Period. As BJD alluded, let’s not try to put a silk hat on a pig. The reason we need to realize this is so we NEVER make these mistakes again. We learn and grow from our past, if nothing else, not ignore or sweep it away with flowery commentary.

    2. Gottfried is a competent head basketball coach. In the past, he has not been a great coach, but one could certainly argue that he has been good. The fact that some of you are hoisting him upon your shoulders and declaring him the Second Coming simply proves just how AWFUL the past coach was, as well as the two who preceded him. Again, let’s recognize competence and never sink in the abyss again.

    3. Rick Barnes is a great head basketball coach. The man competed and made tournaments at Clemson (including a top 5 ranking at one point)and Providence and has never missed a tourney at Texas. Those simply claiming he is a great recruiter are deluding themselves. He had nothing to work with at Clemson and still won games. Is he the best out there? No. But do not kid yourselves about his abilities.

  16. TruthBKnown Returns 11/22/2011 at 1:32 PM #

    I still think we could celebrate this win without kicking Sidney and/or Herb. What’s the point in that? What does it prove? I say we should be glad with what we have now, and let the past go. It is what it is, and it’s in the past.

    Obviously, Sidney did not win enough to make us happy, but he tried. And he LOVES State as much as any of us. And he is still a big part of Wolfpack basketball lore. I wish people would stop kicking him. He’s gone now. Let’s look forward, not back. Gott is proving himself to be a good hire (so far anyway). I’d like to just see people content with that. It really serves no useful purpose to kick Sidney while he’s down.

  17. JVM4PACK 11/22/2011 at 1:39 PM #

    Truthb…I’m with you, let’s move on. Absolutely we should be ELATED with this win. Sure there is still work to improve upon as with any team. Let’s support the team, the entire coaching staff…if anyone is fortunate enough to speak with the players and coaches verbalize that support and how PROUD we are that they all respresent our University with pride, respect and honor. Cannot wait for more b-ball and how this team will continue to grow, and highten their basketball IQ…LET’S GO WOLFPACK

  18. WolftownVA81 11/22/2011 at 1:49 PM #

    Congrats to the players and coaches on a great win. We could only get a crappy internet feed so it was very hard to keep up with the game. I’m glad to see the improvements and toughness this team demonstrated. Really looking forward to the Indiana game which will be our first and maybe last time to see the Pack play due to work schedules.

    I understand the value of comparing current coaches/players with past but am also ready to move on. Mostly because it makes me too depressed to think about the Turner/Robinson/Fowler/Sendenk/Lowe years. Thanks Debbie for restoring my faith in the BB program. Next up…….

  19. PackerInRussia 11/22/2011 at 2:26 PM #

    “Am I the only one who get tired by how some people comparing how the game could have ended with Sendek or Lowe? I believe we should move on and congratulate Gott and the team without being negative about the previous coaches, especially Lowe who got us the recruits.”

    I believe Herb did have a 17/18-or-so point comeback against Wake Forest (to go along with losses of equally bad proportion and worse). Big difference was it wasn’t in game 5 or even year 1. Lowe also managed to beat UNC in year one. What makes things like this nice (and promising) is when it’s combined with good coaching and good recruiting. I haven’t seen a game yet, but it sounds like there’s some good coaching going on. I’ll be happy with the results 5 games in and hope for more of the same.

  20. packalum44 11/22/2011 at 2:51 PM #

    Well said Hamlet. I agree for the most part.

    However you haven’t explained Barnes’s underahievehment of sorts. You may find parallels to TOB – he might have been an overachiever of sorts — good with the underdog players and teams, but has not coached up to the potential of his top 5 recruiting classes.

    I will also mention that Barnes has been outcoached and outrecruited by Gott since he was hired by State.

    Iwould have been tickled to have Barnes last year, but am I happier to have Gott? Well, how can I not be? He just outrecruited Barnes and beat a superior talented team with a team Gott just inherited a few months ago!

    I’m not proclaiming Gott the next messiah, but he sure has exceeded just about everyone’s expectations so far this year.

  21. PoppaJohn 11/22/2011 at 3:25 PM #

    Agree with those exhorting caution:

    The offense is clearly better than we have seen in quire awhile. Gott has installed his offense, and it appears to agree with the talent we have on the court. Particularly the passing and the hustle.
    I’m going to give Gott some credit for DeShawn’s play, he’s good and getting better. He said in last night’s post game that he thought DeShawn was a real key to the victory. He’ll be good this year, and great next.
    I think the 3 point shooting is going to be okay. Scott is clearly shooting very well this year. Alex is known for his 3-pointer, and will hit it more as he gets more comfortable. Plus CJ & Lorenzo can hit it.

    Areas for improvement:
    1) Rebounding – We should be able to rebound with anybody. Richard is a big load, DeShawn and Calvin are big and athletic. Jordan is huge. Thomas is supposed to be tough, and should help there too. Rebounding should be a trademark.
    2) Defense – Defense is hard and takes work. But that game last night looked like half of last season, an opposing guard getting hot and having his way with us. If he hadn’t fouled out, we would have lost. We were playing hard, but not smart.

    However,I am encouraged that we have made this much progress in five games and a few weeks’ practice. I look forward to seeing this team in January when the coaches have had more time to teach. The offense will get better with practice, and as they gain confidence in it. Defense and rebounding are a result of training, hard work and commitment. Good coaches get it done. I think Gott will get it in place.

    Yes, there will be heartbreak – but there is reason to be encouraged.

  22. pack44fan 11/22/2011 at 5:46 PM #

    It is great to finally see an offense that the team can get in to without each and every possession being micromanaged. I think the kids are finally able to play without looking over their shoulder and that they enjoy playing for Gott. Their excitement has led me to have hope that maybe we are in the process of finally turning a page on the past 20 years. I know it is a process, but I think that we are finally headed down the right path.

  23. Tampa-Pack 11/22/2011 at 5:55 PM #

    I know each season is different, but aren’t we now 4-1 this season against teams that were dancing last season? Pretty impressive start!

  24. ADVENTUROO 11/22/2011 at 8:02 PM #

    Really great win last night and a great coaching job by Gottfried and the Staff. Hats off to the team for NEVER, EVER GIVING UP.

    BUT, it did bring back a Jimmy V. moment. Jimmy V., at one of his WPC outings, had a monolog about Dean Smith and how he “outcoached” John Thompson in 1982. He went on and on, but the gist was that there was NEVER any doubt that UNC would win because Dean would figure out how to OUTCOACH Thompson. So, Jimmy V. went through HOW Dean OUTCOACHED Thompson. Sleepy Floyd hit a jumper and then Jordan retaliated and UNC was up by 1. Fred Brown mistook James Worthy for a Georgetown teammate and passed the ball directly to him. No steal, just a CLEAN pass. Worthy was fouled when they tried to steal the ball and Thompson used his last TO to “ice” him. Worthy missed, but Georgetown has NO TO’s and did not score. Thus, Fred Brown’s errant direct pass to James Worthy was Valvano’s example of how Dean OUTCOACHED Thompson. That hit me last night.

    BUT, STATE was coming back and the team and the coaches built on the momentum of 4 points from the two fouls on J’Covan.

    Great game. Great effort. Great Coaching.

    I would be errant if I did not, as others have said, also say a silent thank you to Coach Lowe for being able to to recuit the likes of Wood, Howell, Painter, Vandenberg, Leslie and Brown. We had great recruits despite our inability to utilize their talents. Coach Lowe did not live up to our coaching expectations, but it was not for a lack of effort. He did leave a foundation that Coach Gottfried is building on and for that we should thank Coach Lowe as we congratulate Coach Gottfried.

    GO STATE….MD is NEXT!

  25. wolfpack4ever 11/22/2011 at 9:25 PM #

    Hopefully, since coach Gottfried spent time at ESPN, State will get somewhat better treatment now in the national media. The wave of comments such as “we had a good coach, we ran Herb off, we should have been happy to just get in the tournament, we should know our place and not try to compete with Duke and the tarholes” will fizzle out.

    If that type of thinking continues to be expressed, I hope to be allowed to be critical of the satisfaction with mediocrity mindset brought to us by Larry Monteith, Todd Turner, Lee Fowler & HWSNBN.

    Wolfpack family or not, I will not be critical of Les Robinson or Sidney Lowe because of the situations that they were thrust into. They both did what they thought was right for NC State. They were just not successful.

    Go State!!

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