The State of State Football (Pre-October)

They had more energy than we did. You can’t do that, especially on the road in a conference game.” -TOB’s post-game comments after the Wake game.

After the loses to Wake Forest and Cincinnati, the Wolfpack’s only two D1A games this season, a lot of people are left look at Tom O’Brien for encouragement and signs of life, especially before meeting up with Georgia Tech on October 1.  Showing the fanbase something to get excited over has never been Tom’s strong point and now that affect is starting to seep into the roster and the fanbase.  Let’s review where we are against D1A opponents (and stay tuned for the “NC State Football By The Numbers” segment that WV Wolf posts weekly).  Maybe we can look at where we are and figure out what to expect from here.

Where we currently stand.

First, some combined stats from our two D1A match-ups…

NC State 2011 Craptacular! 34-27 Loss 44-14 Loss D1A Totals
NCSU @WF NCSU @Cincy NCSU Opp.
1st Downs
19 22 13 24 32 46
Total Yards 424 438 322 503 746 941
Passing 315 337 348 263 663 600
Comp-Att
24 41 23 36 28 40 25 34 52 81 48 70
Yards per pass
7.7 9.4 8.7 7.7 8.2 8.55
Rushing 109 101 -26 240 83 341
Rushing Attempts
26 34 22 46 48 80
Yards per rush
4.2 3 -1.2 5.2 1.5 4.1
Penalties 4 33 4 42 6 40 3 35 10 73 7 77
Turnovers 1 1 3 1 4 2
Fumbles Lost
0 0 1 0 1 0
Interceptions thrown
1 1 2 1 3 2
Possession 29:35:00 30:25:00 26:04:00 33:56:00 55:39:00 64:21:00

A few other factoids from the stats:
Glennon is achieving a 64% completion rate.  Our opponents are completing 69%.  Consider that both Wake and Cincy’s QBs are “experienced”.  Also note that he is only completing 1 foot LESS per attempt than his competition.  Guys, Glennon is good.

– NC State out-threw both of their opponents, but is getting crushed in rushing offense (83 vs 341 yards).  Some of this stat includes the terrible offensive line which lead to multiple sacks, including one for -14 yards last night. 

We are averaging 1.5 yards per rush.  Some of this is due to the sacks being averaged into the 83-yard statistic, but from looking at the game, it’s obvious that the predictable play-calling is part of the blame.  According to ESPN, last night’s rushing performance marks the worst in the entire ACC since 2001.

– On 1st and 10 situations, Bible called a rush up the middle 3 out of 4 times against Cincy in the first quarter for total yardage of -1 yard. 

-Glennon was not sacked once during the Wake Forest game, but suffered 6 sacks last night against Cincy.

Injuries, Personnel And Depth

NC State obviously has issues with injuries.  The question is, can the problems experienced by our team, primarily on defense, be explained by injuries?

Before last night, NC State had the following injuries: Mustafa Greene, HB; Terrell Manning, LB; J.R. Sweezy, DT; Thomas Teal, DT; Andrew Wallace, OG. During the game last night, Brian Slay was also taken out of the game as well as AJ Ferguson, who later returned.  That leaves… ummm… crap.

Things got to the point that we were sending the walk-ons to the field.  Now, for those who have never been through the NCAA recruiting circus, it’s important to note that walk-ons at the D1A level are frequently players that are extremely talented and coaches ask to come play for them with the promise that if they stick it out for a year, and a scholarship opens up the next season, they might sign them on.  I’ve heard it said walk-ons at the D1A level are frequently players that would be solid at the D1AA level.  Still, when Ferguson was helped off the field, we had Jacob Kahut (6’4″ 245 JUCO from Campbell) in at defensive tackle.  Understatement of the season: We’re thin.  Very thin.

With regards to recruiting, the battle lines are pretty clearly drawn.  There are those that think O’Brien has the right idea in trying to identify not chasing talent then there are those that are saying you can only get so “good” with solid coaching and no raw talent.  Either way, if you look at O’Brien’s recruits, you see a ton of 3-star recruits, several 2-star recruits, and a few walk-ons.  As far as four stars go…
– 2008: Brandon Barnes (ATH), Mike Glennon (QB), Sam Jones (OL), Kyle Linney (DT), Turrel Manning (LB), RJ Mattes (OL)
– 2009: Byrd (DB)
– 2010: Crisp (OT), Hunter (DE), Randolph (DT), Amerson (S)
– 2011: Hakeem Flowers (WR)
-2012: James Summers (ATH)

Draw your own conclusions from that list.  Even if you aren’t a fan of “star chasing”, just look at the 2011 and 2012 recruiting classes.  My question would be how aggressively O’Brien’s staff has been in capitalizing on the success of the 2010 season in landing top-level talent.  So far, O’Brien’s first recruiting class has been his best by far, but that was also when he was able to rest on the laurels of his success at Boston College.  Again, I’ll let the community draw conclusions from this statement.

Remaining Schedule

Left on the schedule we have 3 currently ranked opponents, 3 away games (one against #11 FSU), and one OOC opponent.

#25 Georgia Tech – Oct 1
Central Michigan – Oct 8
***BYE WEEK***
@Virginia – Oct 22
@#11Florida State – Oct 29
UNC-CHeat – Nov 5
@Boston College – Nov 12
#21 Clemson – Nov 19
Maryland – Nov 26

A lot of discussion is going on over at the SFN message boards concerning what many people predicted pre-season and what people predict will occur now.  I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that it’s going to be a tough road and absolutely nothing on the schedule can be taken for granted.

Other News and Some [Editorialized] Thoughts

Some time ago, I did a series called “Benchmark Tom O’Brien” (Link 1, Link 2) in which I compared TOB’s success to those of our previous coaches.  Some members of our community were in agreement, but after the 9-win season last year, man were not.  That is the problem with 9-win season after several years of sub-standard performance: you can’t be certain whether one season is “turning the corner” or a flash in the pan.  Tom, for whatever reason, just hasn’t panned out at NC State and there isn’t much hope to think, moving forward into October competition against a ranked and pissed-off Georgia Tech that we will get too much better.

In addition to that, JP Giglio over at the News and Observer supposedly said that the coaching staff is considering a redshirt for Mustafa Greene this season.  So why would a coach in a rut, 4 games into the season, begin considering redshirting their best running back?

Looks to me like O’Brien, the strong, disciplined legend from Boston College, has decided to follow the same template he did during the end of the Wake Forest game:

I’m not into all this ‘we fought back’ and all that. We lost the game.
-TOB’s post-game comments after the Wake game.

Way to fight to the end there, Tom. If this is the same mentality that surrounding the locker room, maybe that explains a lot.

About NCStatePride

***ABOUT THE AUTHOR: NCStatePride has been writing for StateFansNation.com since 2010 and is a 2009 graduate of the College of Engineering.

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122 Responses to The State of State Football (Pre-October)

  1. tuckerdorm1983 09/23/2011 at 7:15 PM #

    how good are we this year compared to TOB first year

    2007 5-7
    2008 6-7
    2009 5-7
    2010 9-4
    2011 ???? 3-9?? . At the very best 6-6

  2. Pack1997 09/23/2011 at 7:41 PM #

    For those who think RW would have made a difference last night you are sadly mistaken. Please remember he doesn’t play D. Also while he had great numbers and was good player for us, he was our starting QB for 2 losing seasons. Football is a team sport, and right now our TEAM sucks!

  3. tractor57 09/23/2011 at 7:41 PM #

    Sorry guys but the banner is a bit too much. I’m all behind RW and his quest but I am also a grad of NC State.
    When I want badger news I’ll darn well find a Wisconsin blog.

  4. bigdudenc 09/23/2011 at 8:03 PM #

    Last night was beyond terrible. That is as bad of an effort as I have seen on a football field. Our players were quite simply ineffective at their charges. As we said over and over again regarding unx and their debacle, “the fish stinks from the head down.” TOB is responsible for the entire football product NCSU produces. The quality of coach, player, schemes, everything is on his shoulders, and I know he would be the first to say that. This is year 5 and he has no excuses. What I find most remarkable/disheartening is the play of the O-line. That is supposed to be TOB’s calling card.

    Having said all of that, let’s move on. I wrote an e-mail to Dr. Yow voicing my displeasure. I told her, “I know I am not telling you anything groundbreaking, but if I do not voice my opinion I cannot complain if nothing changes.” She responded quickly with the sentiment that nothing can be done until the ‘end of season review’, except to support the team. I agree with her. We need to support these student athletes now more than ever. After this last game and the road grading scheduled for this coming saturday; the team could quit on the coaches and us if they hear boo’s or see empty seats. It is easy to be a fan when things are going well, but real fans stick it out through the horrible lows. I know the forum here is definitely the ‘choir’, but I fear that we may have an aluminum fan base ala our foes in orange county if things deteriorate. Just think how much you enjoyed hearing the unx fans boo TJ Yates off the field in favor of Cam Sexton during that glorious beat down in 2008. And there is a positive; we lost to Cinci by 30, but dusted unx in ’08 by 31. As bad as we feel now, Imagine how that must have felt (we may feel it this year) to the hole fans.

    That’s my $0.02 and someone can use the soap box.

    It looks like I picked the wrong season to stop sniffing glue.

  5. tuckerdorm1983 09/23/2011 at 8:06 PM #

    I want RW to succeed. Look, we screwed up by letting RW go. I am pulling for him where ever he plays. I hope he wins the Heisman and gets a pro-contract. If his success is directly linked to the Badgers (and it is), then Go Badgers.

    Now if we meet them in a bowl game, then he has to lose. However, that seems quite unlikely.

  6. NCStatePride 09/23/2011 at 8:08 PM #

    “Not gonna happen. I just hope we aren’t burning bridges with all this “replace TOB” talk when we’re just 2-2, after our 9-4 season last year.”

    4 games is 25% of the season. I think if you see that 1/4 of your season is as disappointing as it is, you can’t call it a “knee jerk reaction”.

  7. tuckerdorm1983 09/23/2011 at 8:14 PM #

    its not that we lost, but how we lost. I could see this coming from the beginning of the season. We played two cupcakes and struggled. We played Wake (a pretty weak team) and we were pushed around.

    READ THE HANDWRITING ON THE WALL

  8. smile102 09/23/2011 at 8:27 PM #

    “Now if we meet them in a bowl game,”

    Optimism is a wonderful thing.

  9. the reality 09/23/2011 at 9:01 PM #

    Yes tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc, I hear ya! I went off the very second I heard that Wilson wasn’t being “allowed” to compete for the starting job, I’m still hot about it, and I’ve gotten pounded for every word.

    Strange, but the name calling, the “bad fan” and all of that other stuff, seems to be subsiding somewhat now though??? Heaven forbid that anyone would come right out and say that they were the ones who were wrong, certainly don’t expect that, but hey, maybe we aren’t so stupid afterall tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc.

    And…Glennon is a good QB…he’s just been completely in moth balls for three years practically. He will continue to improve, and if he can somehow begin to shoulder the entire burden (a la his predecessor), then maybe he too can cover for all of the many other inadequacies elsewhere(also, a la his predecessor).

  10. rlgray 09/23/2011 at 9:02 PM #

    bigdudenc is absolutely correct – we need to back the team now no matter the record. Or we will be like some other fair weather fans who need not be mentioned. When the season is over, we need to wait to see what happens then. But until then, support the team. Think what recruits will think if they are at games and see and hear the fans getting down on the team. Understand that we, as fans, have a part to play in our team’s success this year and in the future. And let’s do what it takes to try to make it a successful season and even more successful future. It is, after all, Back the Pack, not back the current coaching staff.

  11. mak4dpak 09/23/2011 at 9:04 PM #

    TOB can fire or demote Archer now, if we wants to salvage this season. Glennon needs more experience, and performing well under the circumstances, however Archer is an experienced goof, getting paid for a job he doesn’t do. Put Tenuta in charge for now, and maybe they both get the ax at the end of the season if nothing changes. And if Bible is to stay send him to a school with the updated version of offense in D1 football.

  12. highstick 09/23/2011 at 10:33 PM #

    The banner is cute for a short time..But, RW does not play defense, coach, block, or anything else…

    Plus, he didn’t attend spring practice very often either..Try running a business when your key players set their own agenda.

  13. sundropdrinker13 09/23/2011 at 11:24 PM #

    You people need to get over this RW fetish. If this year’s defense played like last year’s, we would be 4-0 right now. We also need a running game, but that’s a different tale. The fact that Glennon is playing this well after being “mothballed” for 3 years shows just how good he can be. 3 INT’s after 4 games? That’s a rate of 12 for the season. RW threw 1 his 1st year, 11 in year 2, and 14 last year. Might have been 18+ this year the way the trend was going. His lack of practice hurt the team. That being said, TOB is hurting the team now with the decisions, and lack thereof, that he is now making. I think that his age finally caught up to him and he is too proud to admit it. After this season he just needs to hang the headphones up, even if by some miracle we win out, which ain’t gonna happen. Unless the defense steps up, we ain’t winning again. MAYBE CMU, but not a conference game. We can’t stop the run, can’t stop the pass, can’t stop ’em on 3rd and long, and I’m talking 17+ yards. Can’t cover well on a kickoff. Can’t make in-game OR halftime adjustments. “We went back to basics this week in practice.” Obviously not, as the defense has looked the same since the first damned game. They have played horrible all year long. We are lucky to not be 0-4 or 1-3 right now. But please stop with this RW fetish. His job was to throw the ball, and he was getting worse at that. Also, MG has 10 TDs. That rate is 30 for the year. RW? 17, 31, 28. And PLEASE don’t tout his ability to escape. Glennon has shown on several occasions that he can do that as well, as well as buy himself some time to throw the ball. Wilson had a 3 yard average, which for a running QB is not that impressive.

  14. coyotejoe 09/23/2011 at 11:25 PM #

    I find it ironic that Amato’s career was defined by a quarterback recruited by O’cain, and TOB’s career has so far been defined by a quarterback recruited by Amato; will our next coach’s career be defined by Glennon? Only time will tell.

  15. packhammer 09/24/2011 at 12:48 AM #

    I assume the banner is a joke and nothing more. Although it is time for it to come down now. TOB looked like he was going to quit on Thursday night. Like he totally had no idea what to do. That concerns me.

  16. Prof_Turby 09/24/2011 at 5:22 AM #

    Two years ago with Russell Wilson we went 5&7 with the injuries that we have now…
    We started slow and made up some of the season as it went along…
    Looks like a repeat of 2 years ago…
    It sucks…
    If we implode and do not regroup with a 5 or 6 win season I can see Tom retiring or getting canned after this year…
    Yow may decide to wait until the contract runs out before making a change…
    It could be amicable between both parties…
    If it happens, I just hope that the coaching search goes better than the basketball search…
    We got very fortunate on that one…
    To get a top notch person we are gonna have to pony up with more money…
    We berate the Heels, and rightly so, but they have more money than we do and have paid up more money to get higher profile coaches than we have…
    I disdain Butch Davis as much as anyone else on this board but he was a top name guy…
    I don’t ever see us doing that…
    The best that we could do would be finding a 40 year old Jim Grobe…
    He would bring in his staff and coaching style that would render us a competitive and consistent bowl team for a 15 to 20 year period…
    I can only wish…

  17. LifeLongWolf 09/24/2011 at 6:41 AM #

    I like the banner, keep it until we show some signs of putting at least a marginal team on the field.

    I said at the time that I thought TOB made the right decision with RW. I stand by that. But here’s the crucial point: leadership is about making hard decisions, TOB made a really hard one, and now we are reaping the consequences. Not saying RW would make us 100% better, but he definitely made us better than we are now. I like TOB and I hope he succeeds, but right now it ain’t happening.

    I predict he gets one more season regardless of what happens this year.

  18. TLeo 09/24/2011 at 7:30 AM #

    I agree with the other posters who think the banner needs to be changed back. This team would be just as bad with him here. I stood behind the coach’s decision then and I still do. You don’t let players dictate the agenda as Highstick said.
    I do have to hold the coach responsible for not making what is IMO the needed changes (Archer and Bible) As long as Archer’s “bend then break” and Bible’s dull predictable play calling continue this team will be incredibly lucky to win one more game. The coaches are just not doing a good job teaching fundamentals to these players. The “injury excuse” just doesn’t cut it anymore either. By now there should be enough depth and talent that losses to injury are at least somewhat mitigated by good back-ups.

  19. leewolf 09/24/2011 at 7:31 AM #

    The decision by TOB to hire Mike Archer and subsequently keep him for five seasons will be the downfall of OB’s coaching tenure. The zone doesn’t work and never has really. We had a ridiculously high positive turnover margin last year that masked the massive chunks of yards (and in some cases points) that this team was giving up.

    Combine thar with the inexplicable fact that on year five we still do not have an offensive line that can effectively run or pass block and only one ( now injured) FBS level RB and you have a recipe for failure. Talk about RW all you want but he doesn’t play D and only marginally made up for our total lack of a running game.

    I’m not wringing my hands, the season will play out and if a change needs to be made it will bs done.

  20. Packfan28 09/24/2011 at 8:11 AM #

    “Hungwolf Says:
    September 23rd, 2011 at 6:32 pm You guys might be firing TOB too soon, we lost to a fired up Cincy team playing at home with a QB that probably had the game of his life!”

    Haha – flashback to 2009. Every QB our defense faced had the game of his life. How many ACC offensive players of the week did our guys produce – for the other team? Pretty much every week I think.

    Someone on GT is going to be the ACC POW next week. Wait for it.

    Watching our defense this year and in 2009, I’m starting to think Nate Irving should have won the Heisman trophy last year.

  21. Packfan28 09/24/2011 at 8:18 AM #

    Not sure why there is all this indignation over the banner. It’s obviously a joke aimed at all the fans and media who are making this the year of Russell Wilson. When the announcer referred to it as the “Elephant in the Room”, I had to leave the room.

  22. roandaddy 09/24/2011 at 9:03 AM #

    TWO WORDS… GUS MALZAHN

  23. Packfan28 09/24/2011 at 9:04 AM #

    Some stats:

    RW YTD 2010: 85/142, 1,112 yds, 11 TDs
    MG YTD 2011: 84/128, 1,079 yds, 10 TDs

    RW also ran 35 times for 118 yds. and 1 TD.

    And for those with short memories, this now begins a stretch of games where RW threw 8 total picks against VT, BC, and ECU.

  24. the reality 09/24/2011 at 9:51 AM #

    You guys are missing the boat, totally.

    This isn’t a head-to-head comparison of two different QB’s and no one is even close saying that RW could have come back, played both offense and defense, even blocked for himself, or that we’d be 4-0 with RW at this point, and in prime consideration for the BCS.

    We’re talking about thought processes, five years of them, and the overall. The Russell Wilson situation, though major, and hard to comprehend, is just ONE example.

    We’re talking about allowing too much spacing on defense, and over, and over, again. Blitzing when you’re getting killed down field. We’re talking about coming directly out of the locker room looking like we’re already down by 10 points. We’re talking about the worst “play-action” fakes anywhere. We’re talking about the apparent inability to think out of the box, not being able to lure the much needed talent into Raleigh, and we’re talking about not putting a very positive face on the NC State football program in general.

    The list, and the stats to back up what I am saying, goes on and on.

  25. TOBtime 09/24/2011 at 10:02 AM #

    Packfan28, the one stat you are missing is the rushing totals. WI has put up HUGE rushing numbers behind that NFL line. We, on the other hand, have not. We have to throw whereas RUssell gets to more at his leisure.

    And Russell DID play defense. After not coming to spring practice in 2010 he played defense many times after throwing picks in 2010.

    God bless the guy. I think he made the right move for him personally and TOB made the right call for NC State.

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