The Abyss 34, State 27 (Sunday 10am Update)

'11 Football179

News & Observer:

“They had more energy than we did,” O’Brien said. “You can’t do that, especially on the road in a conference game. We have to look for leadership. We certainly haven’t gotten any out of anybody on this football team.”

You can say that again, coach. Keep in mind, leadership starts at the top.

*****

That went about as well as many of us expected. The losing in Winston-Salem (1997, ’99, ’03-’11) will continue at least until 2013; there are students that were in elementary school the last time State won in Winston. Once again, Jim Grobe outcoached TOB and Wake Forest was the better team.

Stat of the Day: TOB is now 0-11 on the road against Atlantic Division opponents. Wolfpack Unlimited!

Box Score

Feel free to meltdown below.

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179 Responses to The Abyss 34, State 27 (Sunday 10am Update)

  1. eas 09/11/2011 at 10:58 PM #

    My issue has been the DC and OC positions for the past 5 years. It has NOT changed just because of the opening games this season. I like TOB and he a loyal coach who runs a tight ship. However, he put his eggs in a basket years ago with Archer (Bible was many years ago) and those eggs have not produced.

    I understand your point ancsu87 but i think a lot of folks have wanted a change in these positions for a long time (mainly with Archer). Even with RW they tried to make a scramble QB a pocket passer and that was just horrible to watch.

    Just my 2 cents that doesn’t mean squat. I just think we need some change with the assistant coaches at this point. No one wants to replace a HC every 5 years, so hopefully we can turn things around with a few changes.

  2. Gene 09/12/2011 at 7:53 AM #

    Don’t if this has been mentioned. I haven’t read through the entire thread, but on Bible: BC HATED Bible as the OC, because he was plain vanilla and predictable.

    They felt Bible was the reason they weren’t winning conference titles.

    In a nutshell, we were warned that TOB and Bible had their flaws as coaches, but figured he could take his record of winning more than losing at BC and translate it successfully to NCSU.

    What’s disappointing about this season are the mental lapses this team has made over the last two games.

    I feel like we’re watching Amato coached teams, in terms of discipline, rather than a typical TOB coached team, with very few penalties and mental mistakes.

  3. codebrown 09/12/2011 at 9:12 AM #

    I’ll just sum up what everyone has been trying to say in 2 words:

    We blow.

    Who’s ready for the Mark Gottfried era!

  4. Khan 09/12/2011 at 9:13 AM #

    “I hope none of you quit your day jobs even though you all think you are some expert in coaching a major college level football team. It is embrassing to be a NC State alumni when reading most of these posts. ”

    The drama in this post is quite robust.

    Nothing wrong with some honest analysis and discussion. Rather have that than fluffy, delusional, stick-your-head-in-the-sand-and-pretend-like-things-are-awesome commentary. But then again, my emotional state is not tied to comments that I read on a message board.

  5. JasonP 09/12/2011 at 9:20 AM #

    Didn’t expect an easy W by any means against a well-coached Grobe team, but didn’t see a beatdown coming like that. I’m glad the players responded in the 2nd half, but I’m still wondering when they’ll come out for the 1st.

    Running game: Going to struggle until we get Greene back. He’s the only real deal, full time RB we have. Don’t understand Washington getting the start or the amount of carries. I was shocked he was starting over Underwood. I’m thinking TOB still has a craw with how Underwood almost left the team in the off season. Get over it coach and play to win!

    Game plan: I have no problem with vanilla plays, but the fact they can’t execute them very well is disturbing. Execution is on the coaches.

    QB: I like Glennon, and I was a serious doubter preseason. He threw that TD pass to Graham knowing he was going to get clobbered and hung in there to make the connection. I respect that and look forward to watching him get better.

    Defense: Down some starters and obviously losing an all-world player like Irving takes some time to recover from. However repeatedly giving up 3rd and long means no killer instinct. That’s on coaching.

    And finally our radio announcers: Gary Hahn needs to go. Great job and congrats on the award, but please make a graceful exit. He has no idea what’s going on down on the field. Johnny Evans probably takes the long way home after each game to blow off some steam.

  6. NOT A FAN OF BLUE 09/12/2011 at 9:34 AM #

    Word-for-word-ditto of what Tuckerdorm1983 said

  7. NOT A FAN OF BLUE 09/12/2011 at 9:45 AM #

    Saturday night lamentations (with apologies to David Crosby) …

    “Laughing”

    I thought I met a man who said he knew a man
    Who knew what was going on (on Defense)
    I was mistaken, only another loser that I knew

    And I thought that I’d found the light
    To guide me through seasons full of losses and darkness
    I was mistaken, it was only reflections of a shadow that I saw

    And I thought I’d seen someone who seemed at last
    To know the truth (TOB)
    I was mistaken, only a light blue clad child laughing in the sun

    Hahaha … in the Saturday sun

  8. mak4dpak 09/12/2011 at 10:03 AM #

    Too bad some of you don’t go to the games enough, or knowledgeable enough to see that there is a real problem with OC/DC. We are not coaches, but we do want success, and when the same problems keep showing up on the field, it is coaching. And even TOB admitted it after the WF game. So just remember we are supporters, and that does give us the right to voice our disatisfaction, especially when BC voiced the same complaints with the boring and predictable Bible offensive play calling. Go Pack!

  9. ryebread 09/12/2011 at 10:15 AM #

    On the coordinators, I’ve decided that the OC is the most hated coach in football (and maybe American sports). Since the rise of computer football, everyone thinks they can call plays better, or that the OC is predictable, etc.. I think Bible has done a decent job and is better than Mazzone or Trestman. I wish we’d ditch the shotgun and go with some sort of I formation given our personnel, but that’s really my major gripe this year.

    We’ve had exactly one OC in recent memory who wasn’t hated by the fans and that was Chow. He wasn’t around long enough to draw ire. He was fantastic at BYU, NC State and USC, but got fired at UCLA and at the Titans. That shows me that some of it is on the players.

    Recruiting is what has really hurt us. I’ve been concerned from day 1 about TOB’s ability to recruit against BMFD and UNC. I said when we hired TOB that UNC would kill us on the recruiting trail and eventually would amass so much talent that the coaching wouldn’t really matter. Thankfully, the allegations may keep them in check, but we’re seeing the effect on the field. We’re slow and really don’t have game changers at the skill positions. The loss of our recruiting coordinator to GT hurt us more than I thought it would. Recruiting went from passable to awful.

    If there’s a coordinator who should have a target on his head, it is Archer. I thought that was a terrible hire from second one and nothing he’s done has suggested anything otherwise. I thought Tenuta called the plays last year. Has that changed this year? Is Archer setting up the “system” (a.k.a. soft zone) and Tenuta trying to call aggressive blitzes out of it? It’s just not working at this point — like Archer didn’t work the first 3 years.

    As for a major coaching change, I don’t think the list that 61Packer put together is remotely realistic. Petrino is one of the highest paid coaches in the game at Arkansas. Same with the TCU coach. I also think that USF is a better job than NC State, so Skip isn’t leaving either.

    Our last two basketball coaching searches and many of the recent high profile football coaching changes (e.g. Michigan, Miami, Florida) should have taught us that big names really aren’t moving even for the best jobs. Of schools with a similar profile as ours who have made recent changes, only USF and Maryland really got a “name” coach.

    If something were to happen this year, we’d also be hiring “against” UNC like we were 5 years ago. We also won’t be offering top $$$. That’s not a recipe for a successful hire. We’d be looking at a mid-major type coach or a coordinator and rolling the dice.

  10. inhoc... 09/12/2011 at 10:22 AM #

    “How about you guys just STFU and chill out.”

    Well I have not really chimed in, but I’ll respond to that…

    You must not know football too well or must just be ignorant of this football team your following. There are absolutely some ppl who make unrealistic expectations known (I didnt know the masses of the fan base were calling for 11-0 though, news to me) but theres at least a couple of those everywhere.

    You don’t have to be some armchair QB to understand and evaluate the defense. That’s pretty much exactly what most people are saying from what I’ve read. If fans aren’t rightfully able to be critical of a Swiss cheese defense and are pissed off at an 0-11 division road record, that’s legit in my book. I don’t know the answer cuz i’m not that close to the team. Archer is the DC so that’s where the buck should stop in my opinion. I personally think he should get shit canned. I base that on the fact that out defense sucks ass against weak opponents. Is that so stupid and bat shit crazy?

    I just watched the replay. Was happy and saw improvement in the O and in glennon. Some of those near misses and drops will turn into catches as the season moves forward. Unfortunately wake is probably the easiest D we will see other than S. Alabama for the rest of the year.

    I liked o’briens post game comments, hopefully he practices what he preaches. It sounds like he had the same gripes and complaints myself and the other fans do. I wonder if he should STFU too…..ha only if nothing changes. Then I’ll agree with that.

  11. inhoc... 09/12/2011 at 10:32 AM #

    HEY MODS CAN OU FIX MY ABILITY TO POST? EVERY TIME I HAVE A POST MORE THAN A PARAGRAPH IT DOES NOT SHOW UP

  12. inhoc... 09/12/2011 at 10:33 AM #

    “How about you guys just STFU and chill out.”

    Well I have not really chimed in, but I’ll respond to that…

    You must not know football too well or must just be ignorant of this football team your following. There are absolutely some ppl who make unrealistic expectations known (I didnt know the masses of the fan base were calling for 11-0 though, news to me) but theres at least a couple of those everywhere.

    You don’t have to be some armchair QB to understand and evaluate the defense. That’s pretty much exactly what most people are saying from what I’ve read. If fans aren’t rightfully able to be critical of a Swiss cheese defense and are pissed off at an 0-11 division road record, that’s legit in my book. I don’t know the answer cuz i’m not that close to the team. Archer is the DC so that’s where the buck should stop in my opinion. I personally think he should get shit canned. I base that on the fact that out defense sucks against weak opponents. Is that so stupid and and crazy?

    I just watched the replay. Was happy and saw improvement in the O and in glennon. Some of those near misses and drops will turn into catches as the season moves forward. Unfortunately wake is probably the easiest D we will see other than S. Alabama for the rest of the year.

    I liked o’briens post game comments, hopefully he practices what he preaches. It sounds like he had the same gripes and complaints myself and the other fans do. I wonder if he should STFU too…..ha only if nothing changes. Then I’ll agree with that.

  13. eas 09/12/2011 at 10:44 AM #

    Ditto on the above post. We have struggled for many years now with the DC/OC positions. No one has ever been happy with Archer from day 1, so we need to get on with it. Bible is TOB’s right hand man so we really need to hope he can remove the vanilla from his play book and be LESS predictable. I doubt he will go anywhere unless he ends up with retirement.

    I agree it has been obvious for years the DC and OC positions here have been a weak link. Especially the DC. I would like to see fresh ideas at both spots but I just don’t see TOB making that move. He is loyal to his assistants, which is a good thing overall but bad when a change is truly needed.

  14. 61Packer 09/12/2011 at 10:49 AM #

    61Packer’s list, except for Leach, wasn’t trying to pick a specific next coach. It was a short list of good coaches I threw out to show that there are a whole heap of ’em out there- we just have to make better hires than we’ve done in the past two decades. Look at the MAC, who always has good coaches, most who would jump at the chance to come here.

    In no way do I see the USF football job as a better one than this one. Holtz may like Tampa better for geography and family, but I’d much rather coach at this school than I had at South Florida, period. If I’m in the minority in this opinion, then maybe we do need to seek membership elsewhere, like in Conference USA.

    And we need to quit doing everything ‘against’ UNC and start doing things ‘for’ NCSU. We might not be able to attract big names for basketball like they do, but there is no reason under the sun why we can’t attract a better football coach than they can, regardless of whether or not we can match them dollar for dollar.

  15. inhoc... 09/12/2011 at 10:51 AM #

    “How about you guys just STFU and chill out.”

    Well, I have not really chimed in, but I’ll respond to that…

    You must not know football too well or must just be ignorant of this football team your following. There are absolutely some ppl who make unrealistic expectations known (I didnt know the masses of the fan base were calling for 11-0 though, news to me) but theres at least a couple of those everywhere.

    You don’t have to be some armchair QB to understand and evaluate the defense. That’s pretty much exactly what most people are saying from what I’ve read. If fans aren’t rightfully able to be critical of a Swiss cheese defense and are ticked off at an 0-11 division road record, that’s legit in my book. I don’t know the answer cuz i’m not that close to the team. Archer is the DC so that’s where the buck should stop in my opinion. I personally think he should get canned. I base that on the fact that out defense sucks against weak opponents. Is that so stupid and crazy?

    I just watched the replay. Was happy and saw improvement in the O line and in glennon. Some of those near misses and drops will turn into catches as the season moves forward. Unfortunately wake is probably the easiest D we will see other than S. Alabama for the rest of the year.

    I liked o’briens post game comments, hopefully he practices what he preaches. It sounds like he had the same gripes and complaints myself and the other fans do. I wonder if he should STFU too…..ha only if nothing changes. Then I’ll agree with that.

  16. ryebread 09/12/2011 at 1:03 PM #

    61Packer: I agree with the spirit of your thoughts on coaches. We not hired well, and have not done a good job at identifying up and comers. It seems like we last tried this in one of the big two sports (football and men’s bball) when we hired HWSNBN and that didn’t work out. The rest of our hires have been “in the family” or a bit more “experienced.” I think with our next football hire, we may have to gamble some.

    I can’t say we’re a more attractive program than USF. It’s a larger school (38000 students on the main campus), in a talent rich state. They’ve had more recent success in football than we have, including a top 5 ranking. They’re also paying Skip more than we’re paying TOB ($9.1M over 5 years versus about $1.1M per year for TOB while both schools offer similar bonus pay). Finally USF probably has a much better shot of winning the Big East than we do of winning the ACC. How is NC State a better job?

    As much as I personally like Leach, there’s no way we’d touch him. The school just won’t go for that. I can see Clemson getting him after they fire Dabo this year.

    Sadly, we’re going to have as much of a challenge in football as we have had recently in basketball. I personally still wish we’d have hired PJ and think that decision will come back to haunt us.

    We need to be realistic about what comes next if TOB is pushed out. We’ll have the obvious challenges, and then we’ll also have the challenge of the fact that a “great coach like TOB couldn’t succeed at NC State” and “those NC State fans drove off another great coach.” It will be like HWSNBN all over again.

  17. NCSU84 09/12/2011 at 2:04 PM #

    ““I hope none of you quit your day jobs even though you all think you are some expert in coaching a major college level football team. It is embrassing to be a NC State alumni when reading most of these posts. ”

    What is embarrassing is a graduate of NCSU using poor grammar – it is alumnus (singular), not alumni (plural).

  18. gotohe11carolina 09/12/2011 at 2:07 PM #

    So a few people this weekend were upset about my criticism of Mike Glennon and his perceived accuracy or inaccuracy throwing the ball. I just wanted to post a few stats that really jumped out at me. First off we are 9 of 19 throwing the ball on third down through two games, that’s less than 50% for those keeping score at home. This is a good indication that we are being forced to leave the field far too often and not converting and keeping our defense, which I think most of us would agree is a pretty big liability, off of the field. Secondly, when the game is close Glennon gets less accurate. When we are up significantly or down significantly Glennon is up around the 65% mark but when it counts he gets down to a very pedestrian 55%. When we enter the opposing half of the field Glennon’s completion % drops fairly significantly as well. Going from well over 60% on our half of the field to well below 50%, To his credit his red-zone numbers are very good and very encouraging completing roughly 57% of his passes albeit going only 4 of 7. It is also encouraging that he becomes more accurate as the game goes on. I would like to see the 64% he throws in the 4th quarter in the first and we might not find ourselves behind late in games.
    Now my “opinion” of Glennon is that he is not as accurate as I would like him to be, he doesn’t throw to the correct shoulder, on outs he generally throws the ball short of the depth of the route, etc. I had expected more since TOB raved about how accurate he was. If his inaccuracy is down to pressure and Tom hasn’t managed to put together a decent line in 5 years that’s another issue altogether.
    Its nice that Glennon threw for 300+ yds. and completed around 58% of his passes but I think we can agree we’d be a lot better off if Glennon doesn’t have to throw 40+ times a game and we aren’t down by two scores in the second half. The truth is that we are not going to be very good if the offense doesn’t start converting more third downs and our defense needs to stop letting the other team convert so many of theirs.
    As for our defense we are 95 in the nation in pass defense which obviously isn’t very good. Most of our situational passing defense stats, third downs, 4th quarter, etc, are hovering around the 70’s. Being in the bottom third of FBS schools is also quite obviously not very good.
    Other interesting stats we have given up 5 30+ yard returns in two games, that’s a lot of good field position for opposing teams. We are netting about 38 yds a punt which again means shorter fields
    All of this said the sample sizes are very small but they don’t bode well. One bad game is an aberration but two bad games is a trend. All stats are from http://www.cfbstats.com They have some very good stat info going back to the 07 season.

  19. whitefang 09/12/2011 at 3:06 PM #

    I swear we lose one football game, and people start wanting everyone fired and a new qb. We have a kid who has played exactly one Div 1 opponent. We have a coach who certainly isn’t the best in the world by any stretch, but who is in my opinion much better than the last 2 we have had.
    If TOB was not with State but had left BC and entered the “ESPN analyst arena”, he would definitely be on 61’s “short list of good coaches.”
    No I am not happy and I am damn sure not satisfied, but I’ve sat thru many years of coaching incompetence in both NC State basketball and football in the last decade or so, and I am not willing 2 games into the season to label TOB incompetent and call for his head. Not a coach who has 4 straight wins against UNC and whose team beat favored WVa like a bunch of black lung afflicted coal miners just 8 months ago.
    The important thing is how does his team respond to this loss? That will tell more about the “state” of our program than this one disappointment does. There is a hell of a lot more football to play.

  20. travelwolf 09/12/2011 at 3:52 PM #

    One loss sure brings out the negative Nellies… Gee, it’s only one game, and we sure didn’t get blown out – although it looked like that might happen. A realistic expectation is 8-5. TOB is still as great of a program builder as he was last year. Glennon is showing his stuff.

    The secondary defense needs some major adjustment though.

  21. runwiththepack 09/12/2011 at 5:18 PM #

    I was very confident in the defense, but now it looks almost like 2009. Hopefully, getting Sweezy and Rieskamp (two darned good players that have gotten better each year) will make up enough difference. But I don’t want to blame injuries, because everyone has them eventually somewhere. And being able to over come them is part of being a winning program.

    Hurry on back, Greene, too – please. And Mattes. I hope their subs are learning something while we’re stinking it up out there. It could prove very helpful in Oct and Nov. Seriously.

    This was just a setback. Our team lost on the road by only 7, and had the ball when it ended. It isn’t anything that tells us with any certainty that the season is going to be a bust. I, for one, am just going to chill out and see what’s coming. No one had any reason to expect any more than 8 wins anyway this year. Know btw. expect vs. want.

    I am very relieved with Glennon’s progress. Keep at it #8!! Imagine – playing significant game time for the first time since you were in high school three years earlier. We all know how Stone was a big time qb recruit. Recruiting stars mean less with qb recruits than maybe any other position.

  22. runwiththepack 09/12/2011 at 5:22 PM #

    correction – i know we didn’t have the ball when it ended, but i meant that we were in a position to tie the game with no time left.

    I didn’t get to watch the game due to appointments. I sure wish I could have been enjoying the second half with the sushi. I had a hunch there would be some good long completions for the Pack. You know that had to be a good shot in the arm for the offense.

  23. AirWolf 09/12/2011 at 6:15 PM #

    So, this forum is turning into PackPride v.2.0?

  24. Ed89 09/12/2011 at 9:17 PM #

    IMO, our offense will be fine. Glennon will continue to get better, Palmer will continue to get better, and we’ll get Moose back. The defense, however, has me worried. The “bend don’t break” mentality of that soft zone just kills me. I hate it. Often, I look at our linebackers and CB’s and they don’t look like they know what they plan to do. When Audie Cole is matched up against an opposing wide-out, we are screwed…and it happens alot. We’ll see, but our downfall has been our defense for 3-4 years now. You simply cannot give up 30+ points per game. When our defense starts keeping opponents under 20 points, we’ll have a chance. When it doesn’t, we will struggle. Simple as that.

  25. packplantpath 09/12/2011 at 9:35 PM #

    “Secondly, when the game is close Glennon gets less accurate. When we are up significantly or down significantly Glennon is up around the 65% mark but when it counts he gets down to a very pedestrian 55%.
    ”

    What nonsense. Glennon has played 2 (TWO) games. In one of those, we were down significantly for 3 quarters. The other was his first start. He has his issues, mainly with accuracy as you said, so I don’t see the point in just finding nonsense statistics to pick on. His accuracy should improve. If not, hopefully the backup (oh god, did I say that) can pass muster.

    Glennon has not lost us a game yet. That is all on the defense. Heck, I’d say he came closer to winning a game for us at this point. I see no reason to be down on his performance, unless you expected miracles from a guy who had never started a game at this level.

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