The Abyss 34, State 27 (Sunday 10am Update)

'11 Football179

News & Observer:

“They had more energy than we did,” O’Brien said. “You can’t do that, especially on the road in a conference game. We have to look for leadership. We certainly haven’t gotten any out of anybody on this football team.”

You can say that again, coach. Keep in mind, leadership starts at the top.

*****

That went about as well as many of us expected. The losing in Winston-Salem (1997, ’99, ’03-’11) will continue at least until 2013; there are students that were in elementary school the last time State won in Winston. Once again, Jim Grobe outcoached TOB and Wake Forest was the better team.

Stat of the Day: TOB is now 0-11 on the road against Atlantic Division opponents. Wolfpack Unlimited!

Box Score

Feel free to meltdown below.

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'11 Football

179 Responses to The Abyss 34, State 27 (Sunday 10am Update)

  1. TLeo 09/11/2011 at 7:59 AM #

    I wondered how long it would take until someone brought up the topic of Wilson. I am just as mad about losing to Wake as anybody but for lots of other reasons and I will always support letting Wilson leave. It was the right thing to do. Let’s see, Wilson leaves and ignores spring practice to go play basebasll, then late in the summer and halfway through the season he sees he isn’t doing all that well at baseball and wants to come back to football and automaticaly be the starter. Then when he sees that he can’t just slide back in he whines about it and then he ignores (again) his profesional obligation to his baseball organization and leaves them in the middle of their season. TOB understands you have to honor your commitments and Wilson didn’t do that.
    I have lots to criticize TOB and the staff for but that is not one of them. After four years of Archer’s failed defense and Bible’s predictable offense those two need to be gone. Other coaches in the league have them totally figured out. If TOB doesn’t light a fire under those two and get some results it might be time for him to go too after this year.

  2. Deucepeters 09/11/2011 at 8:03 AM #

    Play calling, play calling, play calling. Archer and Bible should be given notice.

  3. wolfonthehill 09/11/2011 at 8:51 AM #

    After the Liberty game, I thought the problems in the defensive secondary were mostly in regard to the scheme we run – the “bend but don’t break” zone that allows teams to throw underneath. Yesterday, Amerson specifically got completely exposed… he got torched on 15-yard outs (consistently had his feet turned the wrong way)… he got torched deep… all the while giving a 10-yard cushion for underneath throws all day. So now, I think we have both a scheme problem AND a talent deficit. Awesome.

    And that bring us back to pressuring the opposing QB. We don’t do it. We don’t try to do it. And when we get to him, the first guy NEVER takes him down. Bottom line? We have both a scheme and fundamentals (I won’t go to talent here) issue… and both are directly related to defensive coaching.

    In the end, we play not to get beaten… instead of trying to go out and just kick someone’s ass. That’s a reflection of TOB’s personality, and I’m highly concerned that it’s a trait that cannot lead to sustained success. More and more, this is feeling like Amato in the post-Rivers era… I’m afraid that TOB is about to get exposed as having been made to look good by Russell Wilson alone… and then he let his last hope walk away.

    Which brings me to TOB’s evaluation of where his team & his players are. He has staked his career on Glennon… and while Mike’s fine, he’s no savior… he’s no Matt Ryan, despite TOB’s steady comparisons. TOB has lauded the defense this year, particularly the secondary, claiming that it’s the strength of our team. They have shown almost nothing through two games. I’m deeply concerned that TOB is not able to objectively and accurately evaluate his talent and the state of his team… which would be the death knell.

    So we’ve now played two good quarters out of eight… Wake has played six good quarters out of eight. Anyone who wants to make the argument that we lost to an inferior team yesterday isn’t looking at what the two teams have actually DONE so far this season. If we were 2-0 and Wake 0-2, it would be an absolute travesty. We have not earned a damn thing yet… and we deserve to be 0-1 in the league. Nothing to be upset about… we’re just not that good without Russell, and we probably will not be this season.

  4. 3boys 09/11/2011 at 9:15 AM #

    Have not read all the post, and was spotty watching the game due to birthday party for one of the boys, but where my concern over the offense was has now shifted to the D. Seemed we bit on every trick play, still could not cover anyone, and still flat till the fourth quarter.

    Miss RW, but unless he could play defense as well we would have still lost this game . . .

  5. BJD95 09/11/2011 at 9:20 AM #

    The hope before the season was that we didn’t necessarily need Glennon to win games for us (not shouldering most of the load, anyway). He needed to be smart, capable, and not put us in a hole.

    Turns out…we need him to be more than that. And it’s not at all clear that he can be. The likeliest diagnosis is that…We. Are. Fucked.

    Move to the SEC or not, we’re going to need a new coaching staff soon. And I presume they would have more success selling our SEC membership than struggling to stay afloat in a dying ACC. It’s very apparent that we need a serious infusion of talent. And not “island of misfit toys” Chuck Amato talent, either.

    State needs a new day and a fresh start. The old model isn’t working, and frankly – I’m tired of watching the same cycle repeat itself on an endless loop.

  6. Primewolf 09/11/2011 at 9:26 AM #

    It has been clear to some of us for several years that Bible’s scheme, coaching, and play calling is 1990s or worse. Very predictable stuff. I don’t know how we have won the games we have won with that stuff. Maybe, a guy named RW had something to do with it.

    Archer should have been fired years ago.

    TOB’s recruiting coordinator and recruiting approaches are the worst in the leage. Our classes have steadily gotton worse.

    We have alot of folks returning on defense and this was supposed to be the year of the Oline. How much more time will TOB get?? If the year ends up as a disaster, this could be it. If not, we may have to suffer through these know-it-alls longer.

    Wake ran more diverse and innovative plays in one quarter than you will see out of our offense the entire year. The Big Ten teams have more varied play calling than Bible.

  7. wolfpack15 09/11/2011 at 9:27 AM #

    It’s time the football program go through the same change the basketball program did. We need new energy and someone with so charisma about him that can recruit. The defense has had the same problem since TOB and staff got here. The offense is exactly the same. We can talk about Archer and Bible all we want but the responsibility fall on TOB. The other thing I don’t understand is if you want to establish the run, why the hell do u try to do this with gentry watching most of the time. For god sakes use a lead blocker. Also if you instist on try to run the ball out of the gun, you have to get huge splits up front with your linemen. We don’t. So its just a cluster up front with no holes for the back. Just mind blowing. I played college football and won a couple of championships, no not at State but I grew up a State fan and now have LT rights seats because I’m a huge fan but I just don’t understand a lot of the scheme or play calling I see. From a football perspective its awful. We were just lucky to have an athlete at qb last couple years and were able to bale bad play calling out with his feet on 3 and long. Anyway……I suggest we make a change. It’s 2011 and football is evolving, just not State football with this hard headed staff.

  8. wolfonthehill 09/11/2011 at 9:31 AM #

    Wow – I just watched TOB’s post-game interview. I’m happy that he was at least COMPLETELY PISSED OFF. If he’s able to do what he intends to do, I’d (1) hate to be at practice this week, and (2) expect us to beat the living shit out of South Alabama. Not that that matters at this point…

  9. state73 09/11/2011 at 9:35 AM #

    defensive coaches grade-F. Offensive coaches grade F first half,grade C- second half. Archer must go!

  10. adwomack 09/11/2011 at 9:41 AM #

    I’ve only read the first page of comments, but for all of those that are ready to fire O’Brien, welcome to where I was about 7 months ago. Our recruiting sucks and the offensive play calling is horrible. We got by the last few years, because of Wilson’s scrambling capabilities.

    Even with these problems, I thought with our cream-puff schedule we could still win 8 games. That is looking very much like a pipe dream now.

  11. Ed89 09/11/2011 at 9:41 AM #

    Primewolf’s post hit the nail on the head.

    WE.ARE.NOT.GOOD. This is what happens with average coaching and average talent. And when I say average, I’m being generous. Our defense is completely awful. It has been for YEARS. Nate Irving masked alot with his competitiveness and talent, but we have NO leader on D. Audie Cole could be the most overrated LB we’ve had in a long while. We would not have won that game yesterday with Wilson. Glennon did fine in his first ACC start. I don’t fault TOB for that decision. I do fault him for his consistent below-average recruiting classes, his awful defenses, and his predictable offenses. We made it look respectable with a 4th and 10 screw-up from their defense and a couple of other long passes. Otherwise, it could have easily been 34-13.

    Ground Hog Day.

  12. lsutton5144 09/11/2011 at 9:51 AM #

    Primewolf,
    I agree with firing Archer. In fact, he should have never been hired. His last year at Kentucky, they had the worst defense in the country. TOB had good defenses when he was at BC. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that the defensive coach was the only one that didn’t come with him to NCSU. Consequently, the hiring of Archer and the downfall of the defense. I agree that Tenuta should be made DC and Archer relieved of his duties, otherwise we’ll lose Tenuta. I’m surprised he back this year. Must really like it here, so give him a reason to stay for a long time.
    Went to the game yesterday. I’m tired of expectations every year only to be disappointed once the season begins. I was really looking forward to going to ATL and playing Tennessee in the first game next year, but we never seem to be prepared for our first game, so now it’s not certain that I’m going. Would help if the Braves were in town that weekend.
    Been a Pack fan for over 50 years and should be used to this by now, but as “V” said, “never give up”. I’m trying not to. The wife said yesterday on the way home that this was turning out like basketball had the last 5 years – lots of expectations but no results.
    And I agree with a previous poster. Unless RW could have played defense yesterday, we would have still lost. Glennon will be fine. We’ve got a lot more problems than RW’s indecisiveness on coming back to the Pack.

  13. 3boys 09/11/2011 at 10:02 AM #

    Goes back to his quote above as well . . .leadership and lack of it. No reason on Gods green earth that we should come out flat for our first home game – Liberty or not, then flat again for first ACC game. Guys and staff have to step it up and man up.

    Starts with the top . . . to quote MJ – “look at the Man in the Mirror.”

  14. Ed89 09/11/2011 at 10:08 AM #

    I will mention two “no-calls” that hurt us. The late hit, horse collar on Glennon that was not called, and the 4th down play where the nose guard ran into Graham…had no idea where the ball was. Additionally, Wake was holding (as do most linemen these days) on almost every down. I think they went the entire game with no chop blocks or holding calls. That being said, we stunk.

  15. wolfpacker 09/11/2011 at 10:12 AM #

    Archer was an assistant in Pittsburgh…that’s how he got the job. Not because he was even good. He probably got a recommendation and once again we were let down on that one, BIG TIME.

    Wikipedia used to show the stats for his teams on his page and they no longer do. I guess someone complained that it was too easy for someone to figure this guy’s a ZERO. It also used to state the REAL REASON that Archer resigned. Kentucky demoted him because he was horrible, so basically they fired him but felt sorry for him. Kentucky has probably been laughing at us the whole time. We are suckers for hiring this guy.

    His defenses HAVE ALWAYS given up 300+ yards / game.
    His defenses HAVE ALWAYS allowed 30+ Point / game.

    After years of coaching, DO YOU REALLY THINK THIS IS GOING TO CHANGE?

    Here’s an article from 2 years ago, some things are NOT GOING TO CHANGE. If TOB hasn’t figured it out, the problem is the Defensive Coordinator and it’s always been our problem since he got hired. Archer is HORRIBLE!

    http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/6147/qa-with-nc-state-dc-mike-archer

    Demote or better yet, FIRE this guy and find a WINNER! Somebody that gives up less points and less yards / game. A few years ago he complained that the problem was that the players couldn’t run his defense. That was when we got demolished by DUKE as they threw the ball across the middle of the field ALL DAY LONG. Our defenders stood and watched as they plowed over us like a steam-roller.

  16. Ed89 09/11/2011 at 10:16 AM #

    A prime example of “It ain’t what you know, it’s who you know.”

    We will end up 4-4 in our division, 7-5 overall, and will go to the Tire Bowl. It’s who we are…

  17. state73 09/11/2011 at 10:30 AM #

    I stayed until the end to support our players. Rememember leaving at halftime is “the carolina way” not the way of the WOLFPACK.

  18. nitewolf 09/11/2011 at 10:36 AM #

    I feel like I’m living amongst the townsfolk of Hickory, Indiana with some of the comments on here…

  19. PackFamily 09/11/2011 at 11:18 AM #

    I believe Archer was hired because O’Brien runs the zone and Archer was only zone D-Cor available. Agree he needs replacement. However, Tenuta was most successful as a man and blitz guy. TOB might not go with that. They fell zone produces more picks. However, we also give up 300+ yards per game so WTF

  20. tuckerdorm1983 09/11/2011 at 11:20 AM #

    Ed89 4-4 in the division and 7-5 overall. Really?

    Certain W
    Liberty W (in the books)
    South alabama W
    Cent Mich W

    Certain L
    Wake L (in the books)
    FSU L
    MD L
    CLEM L
    Cinn L

    That leaves us with 4 must wins to be 4-4 and 7-5
    UNC, BC, UVA and GT

    After what I saw yesterday 4-4 and 7-5 is the best we can hope for.
    More like 3-5 and 6-6

    On a positive note: what I saw at UNC yesterday makes me think that our game with them should be close and we probably beat them.

  21. LRM 09/11/2011 at 11:49 AM #

    Tucker, you’ve got a certain win over a team we don’t even play.

  22. cWOhLFrPAiCKs 09/11/2011 at 11:51 AM #

    So I figured that when I logged on today I would learn that the sky was falling and we are all doomed. RELAX! I know that we all want to win every single game, but people who looked at this team early in the year and thought we were locks for the ACC Championship this year were crazy. New QB, new WRs, continuing development on the O-Line, changes on defense, we have a lot of things we are working out right now. The fact that we played as well in the 2nd half as we did and had a chance to comeback from that much down gives me hope that this TEAM will figure it out. Now, it may not be until later in the season, but remember that the “Wilson v. Glennon” debate had more to do with NEXT year than THIS year. Give Glennon and this team time to grow.

    Also, on the hurry-up offense topic, maybe the coaching staff isn’t comfortable with Glennon in the hurry-up with his lack of in-game experience. I would assume that as he matures in his role, the playbook will open up more and more.

  23. JEOH2 09/11/2011 at 12:23 PM #

    Okay…I’m over it…on to the next one…

  24. PackFamily 09/11/2011 at 12:28 PM #

    How about we stop trading today for the future as the investments don’t seem to be working out. I am all for the long run but today has to pay for itself too. Quit handling Glennon with kid gloves and try to win games.

  25. ryebread 09/11/2011 at 12:34 PM #

    We didn’t lose yesterday because of Glennon, but he isn’t far enough along to single handedly win them for us either. I’d said we wee in trouble after the Liberty game and unfortunately it bit us yesterday.

    We’ve had some consistent problems under TOB and given it is year five, I don’t see them changing. These are injuries, a lack of team speed, special teams coverage, a sub-par OL, an unwillingness or inability to play a smashmouth offensive style, slow starts in September, and generally poor defensive schemes. Different year, but we are seeing the same things.

    I still think the schedule is soft enough to get to 8 wins, but we need to tighten up. If we go 6-6 or less, then TOB will retire.

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