It’s Friday, but still not over

UNC Scandal69

It’s Friday, and Butch Davis is gone and Dick Baddour on his way out, but unfortunately for the Flagship, this is far from over. Specifically, questions remain regarding those 216 phone records.

Joe Ovies:

The phone records now appear to be caught in a semantics game. North Carolina technically reviewed Davis’ personal phone records, but did so with outside help and apparently not from within the compliance department. There is a question as to whether or not UNC should have Davis’ business related calls logged anyway. If he wasn’t using his university issued phone, how was he conducting business? As Art Chansky joked, he must be the greatest recruiter of all time if he doesn’t need a phone. Regardless, the Freedom of Information Act should be good enough to get the phone calls that were business related.

The specifics of what that counsel found aren’t known, but the university maintains there was nothing that would implicate Davis. Of course, all we can do is take them at their word. Considering how the Michael McAdoo thing played out, it’s understandable if folks aren’t so willing to do that.

I wonder what the guy that called into Ovies yesterday to suggest “Irvin” Meyer as the next head coach thinks about all the inconsistencies in the continuous BS they’re tossing on us over there.

In “discussions” with my UNC friends and family yesterday, beyond the general disgust at Holden Thorp for ruining the football program, most readily admitted they were shocked it happened, because they hadn’t really been following the story — “I haven’t really kept up with this like State fans have.” And that may seem strange, but unless they’ve frequented SFN or PackPride during the past year, then they probably truly didn’t realize there was any reason to be concerned.

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UNC Scandal

69 Responses to It’s Friday, but still not over

  1. blpack 07/29/2011 at 9:39 PM #

    What a great week. More is sure to come. Glad reality is starting to hit home for the holes. Their destiny lies in being the bottom feeders of this decade.

  2. VaWolf82 07/29/2011 at 9:40 PM #

    VaWolf82 – I’m getting pretty tired of basically being called a liar. You also responded in the same basic way to my nearly identical comments on PackPride

    I’m going to be real honest here…you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about in regards to UNC recruiting violations and what the NCAA knows or doesn’t know.

    If you believe that the NCAA is sitting on recruting violations while going after kids for $54 in improper benefits then that’s your perogative. There are also people who think that the moon landings were staged in the desert.

  3. VaWolf82 07/29/2011 at 9:45 PM #

    VaWolf: I’m assuming as the NCAA can’t compel Davis to release his personal cell phone records, that they don’t have them. Does UNC have them or not?

    I don’t know whether the NCAA has seen them or not. But if the NCAA asked for them, they have them. If Butch had refused to cooperate during the investigation then it would have been included in the NOA.

    Part of Tressel’s severance package was that he agreed to cooperate with the NCAA. With that precedent, if Davis doesn’t cooperate with the NCAA, then that will end with another strike against UNC. As it is, Tressels settlement might get thrown in UNC’s face when it comes to Blake’s $75K parting gift with no guarantee of cooperation.

  4. RememberV 07/29/2011 at 10:15 PM #

    Also remember, any records deemed pubic, ie. 216, remain public, always. The employment status of Butch is moot.

  5. mafpack 07/30/2011 at 1:24 AM #

    Based on what specific legal precedents?

    I’m not being intentionally antagonistic, I really just don’t know the answer and would love to get more info on the topic.

  6. GAWolf 07/30/2011 at 7:06 AM #

    If the NCAA asked for them they have them is as much of an assumption as they have recruiting violations and are sitting on them. I don’t see either as being true, but I will say, VaWolf, that you are a bit extreme with how you argue points. I certainly understand why as you’re a slightly older Pack fan who lived the glory years in college and watch first hand how the fast, hard subsequent fall. You’ve also, like all of us, experienced the years of torment thereafter where weve heard the double standard jive from UNC folks that they’re superior than us in all ways imaginable. You have a sort of Stockholm Syndrome from years of oppression and that’s understandable. There’s no need to take that out on a VT guy here enjoying the much deserved UnC fall as much as we are. You can say you disagree without the cheap shots over and over.

  7. GAWolf 07/30/2011 at 7:07 AM #

    The 216 records are obviously public and remain public always. Look at my piece on here called Why UNC Loses the 216 Battle.

  8. GAWolf 07/30/2011 at 7:09 AM #

    The question is as to the subject matter of the conversation regardless of the medium on which ts held.

  9. JeremyH 07/30/2011 at 8:34 AM #

    Is it possible that the 216 records and/or a potential independent investigation would lead to revelations that even the NCAA would not want to come out? Clearly there is potential for damage that cuts to the core of 1) what UNC has been doing over the years and 2) what the NCAA has *not* been doing over the years.

  10. Whiteshoes67 07/30/2011 at 8:55 AM #

    The question isn’t really whether the 216s are subject to the public records, they are. More important is whether there are text messages from the phone that are damning. The phone numbers will only connect the dots so far, they’re circumstantial at best. You may identify some minor violations that way (too many contacts to recruits, etc…) but no cash changing hands. But if he was stupid enough to text using that phone, and the carrier can reproduce those messages, and they’re indeed damning, then he’s a bigger idiot than I thought. Again, the public records law gives some exceptions to what has to be retained. I’m ignorant about these carriers work, but will they be able to reproduce the content of his texts if he deleted them?

  11. VaWolf82 07/30/2011 at 9:30 AM #

    VaWolf, that you are a bit extreme with how you argue points.

    Don’t confuse bluntness with malice. If I’m arguing with someone, normally it means that I think that are worth talking to. Idiots aren’t worth talking to.

    Weren’t you telling me all about the value of circumstantial evidence recently?

    Do you think the the NCAA would be interested in the phone records of UNC’s coaches?

    Do you think that they would have taken offense if their requests were denied/deflected?

    Do you think that the would miss the fact that Butch Davis had made no phone calls from any of the lines/cell provided by UNC?

    Do you really think that the NCAA would issue an NOA and keep recruiting violations to themselves?

    There are many things that possible. There are far fewer things that are likely.

  12. VaWolf82 07/30/2011 at 9:35 AM #

    You have a sort of Stockholm Syndrome from years of oppression and that’s understandable.

    Actually, my address has kept me well shielded from the type of idiots/idiocy many State fans have had to put up with over the last 20 years. Here in VA, I know exactly one UNC fan…and he is a friend, not an irritant.

  13. ADVENTUROO 07/30/2011 at 9:41 AM #

    Been on the road for almost 6 weeks. Just got back home. Had limited NET access. Couple of comments for ALL.

    JeremyH,

    Your Barbie comment was precious. However, for those of us that “wore a younger man’s clothes”, there was a group of young ladies set aside for the personal use of the BB team in the late 70’s or early 80’s. A friend’s wife was a sorority member of one of them. They were dubbed the “Sweet Carolines”. Their exploits could make the Duke Co-Ed who blogged her “encounters” look like Sunday School picnic. I guess, since the Academics is NOW a priority, that a Nerdie Sweet Caroline group might be forming

    ALL,

    Holden Thorp is NOT spelled with an “E” on the end. It is THORP

    If you read ALL the stuff on the various boards (discounting the rad stuff where black choppers were hovering over the Stadium), then you might conclude the following….

    The Board of Trustee’s that HIRED BD did it without DB’s knowledge. There were THREE of them including Bob Winston who was the chairman. They literally controlled the board. They rotated OFF the BOT (per their appointment…nothing sinister) at the beginning of July. Barbara What’s her name, the BOT member that asked the infamous…”is this hurting recruiting?” MAY have been OUT of the COUNTRY when the new board met.

    Chancellor Thorp had made the decision to FIRE BD several times over the past year, but he was virtually powerless to execute it. The BOT is his BOSS, remember. DB is merely a puppet that DS put in.

    As this thing got messier (juicier), the GENERAL support for BD continuted to erode (as did the “Carolina Way” reputation). The board, like, like most corporate boards, is ruled by the few. As the ugliness got WORSE, the new board’s sentiment changed. In addition, there were some underground communication from some very UNHAPPY Consolidated University of NC Board Of Governors members to their counterparts on the UNC BOT.

    NOW, factor in John Swofford’s little comment that got VERY little press.

    You NOW have enough momentum to FIRE BUTCH.

    What MOST of the UNC faithful (not the radicals) or the mainstream is hacked about is Holden Thorp’s seemingly COMPLETE reversal on BD. What is NOT known is HOW much pressure (threats) he was under from the OLD board.

    The OTHER thing is the TIMING. NOW, they have a NEW coach and are going to face the NCAA.

    The conspiracy theorist need to take deep breaths and drink a glass of water. If BD got paid “hush” money, as folks think that Blake did, then rest assured, we, the PUBLIC, will NEVER KNOW.

    The only reason that Blake was paid was so that he would NOT SUE and bring more messiness.

    That is the ONLY reason that BD will receive a generous severance. The BOT and the ACC (John Boy) and the BOG and also the mainstream UNC fans want this OVER. If Butch decided to SUE, it WOULD be messy. Would any more facts come out….who knows, but what would it serve?

    Right now, the UNC Faithful are concerned about the NCAA Sanctions, this year’s SEASON and WHO will be the NEW AD and NEW COACH.

    They are HOPING that Chancellor Thorp will not follow St. Monteith’s path to Martydom. They are HOPING that they will not end up with LF or Uncle Jed as an AD and the equivalent of Les (God love him) Robinson as the Football Coach.

    THEY KNOW that their program SMELLS and that only, as Bob Lee put it, that Dudley Do Right can bring it back….but will Coach Do Right be able to win.

    That is my take….

  14. choppack1 07/30/2011 at 10:49 AM #

    I think we may be giving the ncaa too much credit. There is certainly the chance they didn’t know about the 216 number or were misled about its use. There is really no evidence they aggressively pursued the info from Blakes phone as they could have.
    I have heard enough rumblings about their recruiting to be very suspicious…and I’d be shocked if any school didn’t routinely commit minor recruiting violations.

  15. choppack1 07/30/2011 at 10:54 AM #

    A couple interesting stories out there today.

    1 n and o with editorial very critical of unc leadership.

    2 clemson self reports several violations which leads me to believe they may actually care about rules and enforcing them.

  16. VaWolf82 07/30/2011 at 11:41 AM #

    While I think that it’s lilkely that UNC (especially Blake) committed recruiting violations, I don’t think that the NCAA is ignoring them or kept them out of the NOA for a later bombshell. Thus the only logical explanation isn’t that they couldn’t find enough evidence. Vague claims that the NCAA actually has evidence just aren’t convincing.

    I really don’t give the NCAA very much credit. However, they’re the only ones that really investigated anything. So if they didn’t ask for Butch’s phone records, then those calls are just not going to be critically examined.

  17. Tau837 07/30/2011 at 1:28 PM #

    Very interesting stuff from the N&O today (http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/30/1378611/thorp-hears-from-alumni-over-davis.html):

    Jay Smith, a history professor who was quoted in a News & Observer story about McAdoo and the honor court system, sent Thorp an email. Smith suggested an independent, faculty-led investigation of the football program and the ways it intersects with the academic side of the university.

    “I feel embarrassed, sad and frustratingly powerless at the moment,” Smith wrote. “… Many of us are itching to take action. Please empower us!”

    …

    In a phone interview, Smith said he became worried about whether plagiarism might be almost willfully missed at times as tutors work in the academic support program for athletes.

    He wants to know how tutors are recruited, what instructions they are given and what directions athletes receive when they work with tutors.

    “All of those questions need to be asked,” Smith said. “And it may be that we get perfectly innocent answers, but the investigation needs to take place.”

  18. TruthBKnown Returns 07/31/2011 at 9:58 AM #

    I believe the 216 phone records are still very important. OK, they can’t be used to incriminate Butch and result in his firing since he’s already gone. But they can incriminate him retroactively. They can also show that they had a coach that was not being properly monitored. Actually, we already know that because that phone was not being monitored. But if there was something in those records, then it further emphasizes a lack of control, or at a minimum, a failure to monitor.

    I’m not convinced that the NCAA knew about those records. Is there any reason to believe they are like the CIA or FBI and know everything about everybody? A lot of times they depend on other parties’ work and diligence in breaking open a story. They released their NOA pretty soon after the 216 talk was starting up. Maybe they’re hoping someone else breaks open the story since they don’t have subpoena power.

    I hope those records are still being pursued by SOMEBODY.

    Another angle is maybe they can still incriminate someone else STILL at UNX, like Thorp or Baddour, or other assistant coaches. There’s no telling until those records are able to be analyzed.

  19. Virginia Wolf 07/31/2011 at 1:31 PM #

    I’m wondering, with all the parking tickets and the 9 license plates on 5 vehicles, is this not a criminal violation? Where is the N.C. DOT and why are they not investigating this? Shouldn’t an arrest be appropriate in this. And then I remember, a year ago, I had the license plate stolen on my vehicle and reported it to the police and they said thanks for letting us know. I asked if they were going to investigate, check the car for finger prints, etc., their comment was, “we just don’t have time. Just get a new license plate.” So, I guess this won’t go anywhere. Just saying!

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