Some perspective on the NC State job

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For me, the question shouldn’t revolve around whether the Wolfpack can climb over both Duke and North Carolina in the race for neighborhood supremacy. Because let’s face it, if you have even an ounce of rationality, you know that ain’t happening while Mike Krzyzewski and Roy Williams are still around. But once you get past that intimidating dynamic, ask yourself this: Is it insane to think that N.C. State could legitimately emerge as the third or fourth or even fifth best program in the league very quickly?

Consider this: Since March 2009, seven of the ACC’s 12 programs have undergone coaching changes. If that doesn’t scream that the league’s wide open, I don’t know what does. Of the five coaches in the conference who have been around for more than two seasons – and yes, there are only five now! – tell me which ones you don’t think State could better regularly. Leonard Hamilton? Seth Greenberg? Gary Williams?

Good column and information from Dan Wiederer today. He highlights a point that so many people outside the NC State community can’t seem to understand. That point was cemented even further in this season’s Final Four that ended last night with #3 seed UConn cheating beating #6 seed Butler for the national title.

If people don’t remember, then UConn actually finished 9-9 in the Big East and in 9th place overall. Did having Syracuse, Georgetown, Pitt, Louisville, etc… in front of them in the standings keep them from winning the national title?

The run made by VCU was amazing in the post-season. But this was a team who only finished 4th in the Colonial Athletic Association! 4th!!!! If a school like VCU can make the Final Four having finished 4th in their conference with essentially only 1 player on the team recruited by an ACC school, then coaches can certainly make that type or run in March at a school like NC State that has top 15 talent since 1998.

This perception that somehow NC State’s job is so difficult and that our expectations are out of line couldn’t be further from reality. Very few people expect the next NC State coach to come in and win regular season titles in the ACC. You don’t have to. How about just finishing 3rd to 7th, getting a top 10 seed in the NCAAs, and making a run every few years to the Sweet 16, Elite 8 or Final 4? Build the program over time and be ready to take advantage of the opportunities that will be presented to NC State when both Coach K and Roy Williams retire.

As Dan notes in his column, the ACC is wide open. A school that recruits top 15 talent, has a 20,000 seat arena, a new practice facility, the right amount of academics, and access to talent throughout the East is a prime opportunity. That is the reality of the NC State job no matter what anyone in the national media says about NC State.

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61 Responses to Some perspective on the NC State job

  1. btownwolfpack 04/05/2011 at 12:46 PM #

    Finish at .500 in the ACC and you watch the dance on TV. Ask VT.

  2. btownwolfpack 04/05/2011 at 12:50 PM #

    Perhaps it is more important for us to just say the hottest coach in basketball turned us down, and we will recover. The handling of it is questionable, so now the next guy has a great situation. We will all just be glad he showed up!!!

  3. quypack93 04/05/2011 at 12:51 PM #

    So why do we let others cornered the conversation of our basketball program down to just Duke and UNC every time the topic comes up? Most in the mainstream media does it because they are lazy and it is convenient to do so. The fact is our basketball program has not been competitive at any level against anyone decent in the ACC in the last twenty years. That is the problem. It has nothing to do with Duke and UNC. For SFN to chew and rechew this topic over and over again is idiotic and counterproductive to our revival. In the last twenty years, State’s leadership had done nothing to promote our athletic programs. We have not been competitive because we either lack the commitments to do so, or we have been afraid to be seen as trying to be good. I have every reason to believe my latter point has validity in the aftermath of the Valvano debacle. We, actually, our leadership, had been afraid to be seen as putting too much emphasis on “winning” in sports. That is the reason why we are in the sad state we are in right now. Roy, Dean, and K never coached a game in soccer, baseball, volleyball, etc… Have we been competitive in any of those sports? Some of you might think that those sports don’t really matter. At the very least, whether you like any of those sports or not, our tolerance of mediocrity in those sports, from our leadership standpoint, tells you that we never value success on the fields enough to be competitive with others in our conference. I use the smaller sports to take Dean, K and Roy out of the conversation. Our leadership had repeatedly hired the wrong coaches, never held them accountable for results on the fields, keeping them too long even though there were evidence that they are not up for the job. No school is entitled to be successful in any endeavor, they have earned their success. To say that Duke is Duke is an ignorant slap in the face to Coach K. Coach K is Duke. Calhoun is Uconn basketball. Dean and Roy are UNC basketball. You have to get the right person for the job. We have not done so. Our lack of success has allowed people to define us and who we can be. We have now grown to believe in their definition of us and of whom we could be.

  4. WufPup2810 04/05/2011 at 12:53 PM #

    Any rumors flying around about Brad Stevens, is DY going after him now?

  5. Rochester 04/05/2011 at 12:55 PM #

    What coach who stresses defense,fundamentals,discipline would be salivating waiting to get a hold of this group?

    I would think any of them. We have talent on the roster, they just weren’t coached to get the most out of their ability. A good coach could come in here and turn these guys around pretty quick. I should think that would be appealing. (Then again, what do I know? I didn’t figure we’d be starting over three weeks into the search.)

  6. philliepacker 04/05/2011 at 12:57 PM #

    Is there a limit as to how many times we can be turned down? Brad Stevens is not leaving Butler,we have a better shot getting Phil Jackson or Pat Riley.

  7. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 04/05/2011 at 12:59 PM #

    Swing for the fences, Richard Pintino

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Pitino

    State gets a named coached, and a Florida connection. Win, win! State also get him before a mid-major has a chance to steal him away from us.

    State also get the press for hiring the youngest coach in basketball.

    I’m only half-joking.

  8. JT 04/05/2011 at 1:00 PM #

    Good article. The thing about V was that he had State at the level I grew used to- not whupping Duke or UNC, but competitive. His ACC record was a shade above .500. I think people remember that as being a dominant era, but it wasn’t. What he gave us was personality and HOPE. Sendek’s results weren’t nearly as good as V’s, not close. But V’s fit into what the article says. And again, he became part of the family, unlike Sendek. I grew up with State fighting to be competitive, and that’s a reasonable expectation. I really don’t think it’s that far off talent-wise. And I trust a coach will come in and succeed. In fact, I have no doubt. I may be the only one, but though I wanted Marshall, I’m glad we struck out with the options at the end.

  9. Howler 04/05/2011 at 1:01 PM #

    I have been a true believer in NC State Basketball from the time that I was little, pretending that I was Hawkeye Whitney hitting game-winning shots, and I refuse to settle for mediocrity. I remember taking a Soviet Politics Class at State in ’88 or ’89 after the Berlin Wall fell. My professor scoffed at the reports that there could once again be a unified Germany, saying it would take decades for that to happen. But despite his pessimism, the people who mattered rolled up their sleeves and got it done quickly.

    Why should we set a multiyear path to respectability, when the right attitude and the right personnel can make it happen quickly. (Look at Arizona this year).

    Once you change your mindset and tear that damn wall down, great things can be accomplished quickly.

  10. freshmanin83 04/05/2011 at 1:02 PM #

    Saying we cant and shouldnt even worry about competing with the blues looks alot like waving a white flag to me. Settle for third, forth, or fifth? Really? If you don’t aim for what you want to hit you are likely not to hit it.

    Should this be the tag line for recruiting incoming freshman? Come to NCSU and compete to be 5th in the league, just sign here.

    Lower your expectations and find the real looser inside yourself?

  11. imissbball 04/05/2011 at 1:03 PM #

    My expectations are pretty low actually…I just want to enjoy watching the 3 NC State basketball games a year I get to see up here. And I haven’t enjoyed watching the Pack since Julius Hodge…

  12. redredred 04/05/2011 at 1:09 PM #

    Reading throughout the post people keep mentioning the talent level we will have coming back next year. If I was a kid who was weighing the pros and cons on staying or coming to NCSU that little note DY put out yesterday went in the cons column. So I will not be suprised to see us lose some players. I have liked everything she has done for the University up until this letter. I just can’t believe she thought that was a good idea. Like dropping a carcass into already bloody water.

  13. bigjohn 04/05/2011 at 1:09 PM #

    If either of the past two coaches could have won the the 6-10 games that were sure wins, or we were in and had control of, but lost, then they are still comfortably here. This last team could play with anybody, including the blues, but had major lapses at critical times.

  14. JeremyH 04/05/2011 at 1:14 PM #

    I don’t understand all this stuff about Yow being difficult to work for, are we now questioning whether our AD was the right choice to make the right coach choice? What a mess, do we have a journalism school, and if not, we should start one. Engineers and architects don’t win in this game, journalists and politicians do.

    Bottom line question: did the UNC football program do anything less or worse than the NC State basketball program, and if worse, how did they succeed in maintaining their program? politicians and journalists.

  15. hickoryhound 04/05/2011 at 1:16 PM #

    The goal is not to climb over Duke and uncch. The goal is to win ACC and NCAA Championships. No one cares about what the all-time records versus Duke or uncch. It is about turning the tide and accumulating championships again. Whoever can do this at State will be immortalized. Why no one accepts that challenge speaks volumes about the state of the coaching world today.

  16. Howler 04/05/2011 at 1:17 PM #

    But Daily,

    The point for me is that I don’t even consider conceding that point to NC State’s critics. You are looking for a path to National Titles without building a program that can win ACC titles? Not the preferred way of doing it.

  17. Daily Update 04/05/2011 at 1:19 PM #

    Don’t miss the point of the entry. Nowhere did I say that we can’t compete with Duke and UNC.

    The point addresses the perception that we can’t compete with Duke and UNC. If you concede that point our critics make, then UConn winning as the 9th place team in the Big East shows that the Duke/UNC thing is irrelevant.

    So even if you can’t finish 1st or 2nd in the ACC(we know we can because Sendek did that), then you can certainly make deep runs in March because you will have the talent, support and resources to get it done.

  18. anonimus 04/05/2011 at 1:20 PM #

    Bobby Knight. Do it. Do it.

  19. Rochester 04/05/2011 at 1:25 PM #

    I guess our floor is Monte Towe, since he’s already here. I hope Yow can find someone better than him by the end of the week.

  20. graywolf 04/05/2011 at 1:30 PM #

    Bobby Knight. Do it. Do it.

    He would give us 3 good years. Rest assured they would play hard.

  21. JeremyH 04/05/2011 at 1:36 PM #

    Isn’t it odd how Steve Lavin turned us down, but it was not because he wanted to stay in the booth, but he just didn’t want the position. And now he has made St. John’s relevant again, or so he says. Every good coach was an assistant at some point (too bad they all played at Duke!).

  22. scotchzombie 04/05/2011 at 1:37 PM #

    “It’s OK to be #3” was simply the wrong title for an article that makes some very good points. We all want to beat the blues and win ACC titles and Nattys. We all think it can happen at this University. But very few realistically demand that those things immediately. Come on – we’ve been waiting 20 years and we’re still a passionate, dedicated and endlessly hopeful bunch. We know you need to walk before you can run. Let’s start with a competent, winning coach who can lead us to a growing number if wins and some RESPECT. I think the article misreads the quite realistic expectations of most NC State fans.

  23. IMCN Red 04/05/2011 at 1:41 PM #

    Why is everybody hung up on Duke and UNC-Ch? Heck, Arizona and Kentucky had no problem beating those guys.

  24. mwcric 04/05/2011 at 1:43 PM #

    Yow screwed up big time with that idiotic e-mail. Telling the world that the program is in “poor shape” and candidates have been wary of that just boggles the mind. You know a program that’s in poor shape? Alcorn State. They were 4-24 this year, finished 341 out of 345 according to KenPom, but found a new coach. Cal State-Bakersfield is an independent that went 9-19, but found a new coach. Texas A&M Corpus Christi went 10-21, but found a new coach. But you’re going to tell me that NC State, who has three 20-win seasons in the last 10 years and two losing seasons – both of those at 15-16 – and a roster with three 5-star recruits, four 4-stars and three 3-stars, and with two 4-stars and a 3-star coming in, is in “poor shape?” Do you think that’s going to attract candidates now? Do you think that’s going to attract recruits? Do you think that’s going to retain current players? Why the hell doesn’t the athletic department spend any money on PR?

  25. bradleyb123 04/05/2011 at 1:44 PM #

    That letter from Debbie Yow probably has one primary purpose — to let us know we are NOT getting a top coach. And we’re probably not even getting a hot mid-major coach, either.

    With all the speculation and rumors, if she continued to silently work on getting our next coach, and just showed up one day with some nobody from Podunk U., it would have appeared to come out of nowhere.

    I think her email just served notice to everyone that she IS having problems getting any of her preferred coaches, and to expect the guy from Podunk U.

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