Who’s Afraid of the Big (Bad) East

After all of the hype of the Big East and all of the talk about the record 11 teams awarded an NCAA bid, only two of the “nation’s best conference” were able to crawl into the sweet sixteen. Here is a break down of the sweet sixteen by conference:

Everyone was talking about the league all season long and its power in numbers, but now the conference has just two teams left standing following Notre Dame’s loss to Florida State. It could have been one if not for the fact that Marquette played Syracuse – and one of those Big East teams automatically advanced.

And for all of the chatter about what a down year it was for the ACC, the ACC puts the most teams of any conference in the Sweet 16. This makes the decision to leave Virginia Tech out of the tournament look even worse. And with NCSU and GT replacing their bottom of the barrel coaches, the ACC is only going to get better. So in a horribly down year for the ACC, they place 3 teams in the Sweet 16 when the Big East can only muster 2 in the most ballyhooed year I can ever remember. As the linked article says:

“For all the criticism that the ACC took this season, no one has more teams left standing. Duke, North Carolina and Florida State all moved on..”

About Rick

1992 and 2002 graduate from NCSU. Born and raised an NCSU fan. I remember the good ol' days and they weren't in the last 20 years.

ACC & Other ACC Teams College Basketball General

28 Responses to Who’s Afraid of the Big (Bad) East

  1. ruffles31 03/21/2011 at 9:47 AM #

    Too bad Virginia Tech lost at home yesterday to Wichita State and Gregg Marshall 79-76 in OT.

    But yes, props to the ACC. The only two Big L(east) teams to make it to the Sweet 16 are Connecticut and Marquette, the 9th and 10th seeds in the conference tournament. And they had to beat fellow conference members Cincinnati and Syracuse this weekend in the round of 32 just to make it.

    0 Big East teams beat two teams from other conferences outside of their own to make it to the Sweet 16.

    Now if the ACC teams were FSU, NCSU, and Clemson instead of FSU, UNC, and Dook, I would be really happy.

  2. PackMan97 03/21/2011 at 9:49 AM #

    It’s worth noting that UConn also advanced by beating a Big East team. The only Big East teams to advance to the S16 were teams that were fortunate enough to play another Big East team.

    The RPI is perhaps the worst measuring stick in history. The ACC had a horrid early season and that killed our conferences RPI…but whatever. Here’s to having 2 of the 8 in the Elite Eight from the ACC!!! GO MARQUETTE…I don’t care that you are from the Big Least, beat the Holes!

  3. old13 03/21/2011 at 9:57 AM #

    Duke v Arizona – preview of coming attractions?!

  4. LRM 03/21/2011 at 10:17 AM #

    I heard an argument this morning on the drive into work that this is an example of why the NCAAT should be expanded to 96 teams.

    I disagree.

    Instead, this is an argument for finding a better way to evaluate who gets in. Plus, upsets happen; great games like Pitt-Butler are one of the many reasons the college basketball postseason is so overwhelmingly superior to college football’s.

    Pitt was a great team this season, and that doesn’t change just because they lost during the first weekend.

  5. codebrown 03/21/2011 at 10:20 AM #

    ACC-Big East Challenge next year, bring it. Though ACC teams would have to play 2 Big East teams in 2 days, seeing that the Big East will probably have 24 teams by next season.

  6. haze 03/21/2011 at 10:25 AM #

    Always nice to see the Big East suffer. That said, I’m not buying that the ACC is actually very good.

    Still, FSU made a nice statement last night and we have our best 3 still playing. To me UNC looks pretty vulnerable, generally, and Arizona is not really a good match up for Duke.

  7. Pack Mentality 03/21/2011 at 10:37 AM #

    I bit my tongue throughout the season and didn’t bring this up.

    My opinion the whole time is and always has been that year in, year out the ACC is the best basketball conference…PERIOD. Everybody in the country knows this to be true, but it seems like a new and cutting edge thing to say otherwise.

    The ACC in basketball is like the SEC in football. There might be other conferences that are strong, but everybody damn well knows where the real basketball and football powers are.

    Also, it makes you feel better when you suck (NCSU) to go ahead and say how everybody sucks.

  8. PackerInRussia 03/21/2011 at 10:49 AM #

    You could argue the other way around that if Big East teams weren’t playing each other that they would have had the chance for more teams to be in. So, although it guaranteed 2 teams being in, it also reduced the possibility for more. I’m not making that argument, but someone could if they wanted 😉

    And I disagree about Pitt. Coaches are measured by how far they advance in the NCAAT, not exclusively, but primarily (at least that’s how it seems to me). So, Pitt’s season will be remembered as good, but one that didn’t live up to its potential. I’m not one to think that playoffs make the regular season irrelevant, though. But, I do think that the regular season serves the postseason, so to speak. Its main purpose is to position a team for the postseason (and in that regard is very important; you’re almost guaranteed at least one win if you are highly-seeded).

  9. jwoerner89 03/21/2011 at 10:58 AM #

    ^ thats all they talked about last night is how the big east beat them selves up in the tourny just like they did during the regular season…

    I still don’t buy it.

  10. wufpup76 03/21/2011 at 11:05 AM #

    I will definitely be pulling for a big east team later this week to make a regional final.

    It can’t be helped.

    Anyway – to be fair, all power conferences have had showings like the big east has had over this past weekend, and Duke and Unx were pretty close to being gone themselves.

    That said, I don’t think that’s a good argument for the big east in this tournament. Sure, anything can happen in a ‘one and done’ game – but they had ELEVEN of 64 teams in (no need to say 68, b/c none of their teams played in the “First Round”). If they’re supposed to be the ‘all powerful’ big east, then there’s really no excuse for only having two teams left at this point.

    The conference should get raked over the coals, as should regular season evaluations.

  11. LRM 03/21/2011 at 11:06 AM #

    ^Especially when you consider that Connecticut won the thing playing five consecutive days and is one of the two still alive in the NCAAT.

    No one has forced to Big East to have 16 teams, that’s all on them. What happens when TCU joins, will they have Monday play-in games or go back to only allowing the top 12 to play?

  12. VaWolf82 03/21/2011 at 11:14 AM #

    There are two ways to measure “conference strength”. One is to look at the top of the conference and how those teams do on a national level. The other is to look at all of the teams in the conference which would then include all of the bottom teams (tallest midget evaluations). All of the calculated rankings (RPI, Sagarin, etc) include the bottom teams.

    When you evaluate the ACC from top to bottom, this season was the worst the conference has looked in a decade. However, that evaluation says absolutely nothing about how the top teams will do when placed on a national stage.

  13. ChemE79a 03/21/2011 at 11:14 AM #

    Two thoughts.
    1. Bilas brought up the idea that part of the BE’s problem is a different whistle in the NCAA. That the ref’s allow more contact inBE regular season games and so BE teams have a hard time adjusting. I suspect there is some truth to that. I can also remember in the late 80’s early 90’s when the same arguement was made about the ACC. Except that it was that the ACC was a finesse league and the teams had to adjust to more contact in the NCAA. If the league’s goal is to produce a national champion then they should endeavor to have their officials make calls similar to what they will experience in March. If the goal is to entertain their fans, get tv money or make their coaches happy then you instruct the refs to make calls in a way that meets those goals.

    2.Paricularly when a league gets a lot of teams into the tournament you need to look at more than win/loss or number of teams advancing to evaluate league performance. If a league gets a bunch of teams in but most are double digit seeds you can’t be surprised if they do not survive the first weekend.

    This type of analysis does not help the BE’s case. They are 2-3 as a higher seed (fairly respectable although in reality 1-2 versus non-BE teams) but are only 7-6 as a higher seed (again 6-5 versus non-BE teams). And that record includes a 1 vs. 16, a 2 vs. 15 and two 3 vs. 14 games. The BE record as a higher seed against non-BE teams when the seeding difference is less than 11 is only 2-5. That is sad.

  14. Pack1997 03/21/2011 at 11:50 AM #

    I think the article is bit one way. You point out that it could only be one Big East Team left since they had to play one another, however there could be 3 if they didn’t play each other as well. I think that should be pointed out.

    I also think based on this weekends performances no one conference is clearly better than any other. Much like the ACC/Big Ten Challenge matchups play a huge role as to perceived conference superiority.

  15. graywolf 03/21/2011 at 11:53 AM #

    Old 13 “Duke v Arizona – preview of coming attractions?!”

    One can only hope!!

  16. Howler 03/21/2011 at 11:58 AM #

    This is what makes the NCAA tournament the best event in sports. Two teams from the Mountain West in the Sweet 16, VCU, and Butler again….. are you kidding? And I swear Florida State would have beaten anybody they played last night.

    This is the real reason it has hurt so much being a State fan the last five years. I feel like an outsider looking in on somebody else’s good time. It is time for the Pack to start dancing again.

  17. Lunatic Fringe 03/21/2011 at 12:36 PM #

    The thing that people do not discuss is that for the most part the Big East teams are older teams that were great early on in the season.

    They earned their rankings outside of the conference by beating up on other teams that were relying on freshmen to fill in minutes (Georgetown vs. NC State is good example), because they were ready to play out of the box. Once in the conference, they just traded rankings with one another to the point that we just assumed they were all good.

    In the meantime, teams like UNC that were a train wreck at the start of the season had freshmen getting older and learning how to play.

  18. jncope 03/21/2011 at 12:56 PM #

    The only way to destroy the Big Bad East myth is to replace the ACC/Big 10 challenge with the ACC / Big East challenge. Until we do, the Big East will continue their bogus claim. There will even be some people who buy it.
    A big east homer on one of the ESPN boards over the weekend someone was claiming that the Big East was superior to the ACC because, according to them, the ACC is propped up by Duke and Carolina. Their argument was “would you rather play NC State / Clemson / FSU / etc… or Marquette?” I would have pointed out to them that as bad as NC State has struggled over the past four years, we are 5-3 against the Big Easy in that time, including a win over Marquette and a close loss to Syracuse. I think Florida State made a more compelling case than my little argument though. Props to Leonard Hamilton and company…

  19. 4in12 03/21/2011 at 1:06 PM #

    I seem to remember an ACC/Big East Challenge that lasted a couple of years. If I’m remembering clearly, the ACC/Big 10 challenge replaced it.

  20. Gene 03/21/2011 at 3:14 PM #

    The ACC’s flamed out in the NCAA tournament so often recently, I can’t really feel superior to the Big East. I remember a few years back we got 7 teams into the NCAA tournament on the basis of having the highest conference RPI. Our opening weekend pretty much paralleled the Big Easts.

    Anyway, as far as the ACC “bringing it” in an NCAA tournament, I look for schools, who aren’t UNC or Duke to advance to really gauge how good the conference is.

    It’s like the old Big 8 conference, with Oklahoma and Nebraska dominating every year. Sure one of those two schools would be playing for a national title, but that doesn’t say much about how good the other schools are.

    The old ACC, pre-expansion, was generally very tough top to bottom. Sure UNC dominated, and Duke did eventually, but you still had Ga. Tech making the Final Four, Wake Forest making it to the Round of 8, Maryland winning a National title, etc.

    I don’t see that sort of balance, so I don’t know how we can claim to be a good conference, since we are basically very top heavy at the moment and have been, ever since we expanded.

  21. El Lobo Loco! 03/21/2011 at 4:20 PM #

    Big East, Big West, it’s all about the champions…
    If UConn wins they’ll keep the claims, so let’s root for another conference team to win!

  22. BJD95 03/21/2011 at 4:51 PM #

    It’s just been such a strange year. The three teams playing the best basketball (by a long shot) are Ohio State, Florida State, and VCU.

    I mean, how the hell do you make sense out of that?

  23. YankeeWolfpacker 03/21/2011 at 5:04 PM #

    I crack up when I hear people state one conference is better than another based on one (long) weekend of results. Are you kidding me? These are a bunch of kids, in some cases 17 or 18 years old who have millions of people watching these games… it may be the highlight of their lives… and virtually every game comes down to one or two great or boneheaded plays at the end of the game. One bad game and a team is done. That’s is what makes this tournament so great… but this argument of which conference is the best so ridiculous. Every year is different. In fact if you look at the past 8 years since the ACC took the basketball cellar dwellers from the Big East (BC, VT, Miami) and replaced them with Marquette, Cincinati and Louisville (and others) the Big East has beaten the ACC head to head in the tournament more than they have lost. I understand this argument over who is better is fun but its also silly. They are both unbelievably good and hopefully it will continue.

  24. 4in12 03/21/2011 at 5:55 PM #

    This is what I was remembering…

    From http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/15950351/

    “The ACC-Big East Challenge, which ran from 1989-91, seemed to have a higher energy level. The Big East, with great success in its first decade of existence, had become a threat to the established ACC. And the four-night event featured doubleheaders carried exclusively on the original ESPN network. Now the ACC-Big Ten games overlap on ESPN and ESPN2. Two of the games (Penn State at Georgia Tech, Iowa at Virginia Tech) were carried on ESPNU, which reaches a limited number of households.

    The Big East coaches eventually got their way and ended that challenge. They didn’t care for the extra game against a difficult opponent. Administrators preferred a schedule with an extra home game and revenue that didn’t have to be shared with other conference members. There was a divorce and the ACC started another relationship with the Big Ten.”

  25. 61Packer 03/21/2011 at 8:24 PM #

    I still think that the Big East was overall the best conference this season, but tournament time is another season altogether.

    I hope that this discourages anyone in the NCSU “hire-archy” to forget about pursuing Jamie Dixon or Mike Brey.

    Does anyone know why Duke was put in the Friday-Sunday bracket and then sent to the West Coast to play on Thursday? UNC conversely got a Friday night date on the East Coast. That simply doesn’t equal out.

    I agree with BJD’s assessment on who’s playing the best right now (FSU, VCU, Ohio State), but don’t forget the hated Huskies of UConn. They never lost outside their league this season, which included wins at Texas, Michigan State and Kentucky, and their conference losses were all close. They won the Big East Tournament by winning 5 straight days, and have pounded their first two NCAA opponents. There’s not a better player in the country right now than Kemba Walker. As bad as I hate to say it, I think they’re going to win it all.

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