Will it be Rick Barnes this time around?

 

Despite the warning by BJD95 in his “Tin Foil Hat” theory, and despite the fact that every indication suggests the wholly competent Debbie Yow is keeping the usual insiders out of the loop this time around, Saturday’s rumor mill is churning: SFN community member, ‘Strutter’ posted on the forums today that an offer has been made to Texas’ Rick Barnes.

Maybe it’s a smokescreen and there’s no merit to it whatsoever (which is what I happen to believe), but as a charter member of the Lunatic Fringe, I don’t see any harm in getting excited talking about our next coach, especially if it could be Rick Barnes.

The case for Barnes isn’t necessarily quantitative, and it may seem quite mysterious — at the very least, strange — that such a resounding folklore surrounds a guy that didn’t go to State, has never coached at State, and has, at best, only loose connections to State.

As a pragmatist, it bothers me that the numbers –- through today he has a career record of 524-256 (.672) and he’s coaching in his 16th consecutive NCAA Tournament and the 19th of his 23 years as a head coach –- are peripheral to the idea of Rick Barnes at N.C. State.

Our fascination with Barnes –- mine, anyway –- stretches back to his first season at Clemson, when he took over a program in shambles and immediately challenged the conference’s long-established paradigm. Duke and Carolina might always reign as the ACC’s elite and most-favored, but during his four seasons in the league, Barnes promoted aggressiveness over finesse with the explicit intent of making it hard on them both every time they played Clemson. This endeared him to State fans, so when he went to Texas in 1998, many of us expected his time in Austin would be short and that he’d be back in the ACC –-in Raleigh -– after the 2001 season. But those were the early days of Lee Fowler’s burgeoning ineptitude, so we waited for our next opportunity, which came during the rollercoaster, tail-number-tracking days of early April 2006. But, by then, Fowler’s utter incompetence reigned supreme, and Barnes remained at Texas.

Yet, somehow, the idea never died, which doesn’t really add up. Besides being a Hickory native, Barnes’ only solid connection to State is that he was an assistant at Davidson under former State star Eddie Biedenbach. So, yeah, it seems downright arrogant for the fans of this once proud, storied program to have built such folklore on the premise that being Head Basketball Coach at North Carolina State University has always been Barnes’ dream job.

Still, many of us know that we were thisclose in 2006, and appreciate that the main roadblock then won’t be a factor in 2011. But five long years have passed, and it’s entirely plausible that Barnes has no interest this time around; and even if he does, it’s not a done deal.

Considering Barnes is currently one of college basketball’s highest-paid coaches, with an annual salary of $2 million, and knowing it’s likely that Texas, with its rich coffers, would make a counteroffer to keep him, it could require a deal that exceeds our financial capabilities. However, according to the El Paso Times, Barnes doesn’t have a buyout penalty clause in his contract (link). Now, it would be purely speculative to suggest this was intentional during his re-negotiations in April 2006, but it does seem awfully convenient that the he left the door open for when new management took over at State. See what I did there?

Moreover, it’s not unreasonable to expect that, at 56 years old and nearing the end of his 23rd season, Barnes may no longer have the passion, or the energy, to rebuild a struggling program where the fan base expects, at the very least, to perennially make the NCAA Tournament and challenge for the ACC title. Barnes hinted as much in April 2007, when his name was mentioned for the Kentucky job, just one year after turning down State. John Feinstein wrote in the Washington Post (link):

“I think I have one of the five best jobs in the country,” Barnes said last week. “We can recruit in Texas and we can recruit nationally. We’re good enough to contend nationally. And if we lose in the second round of the tournament…the whole state isn’t crying for my head.”

That’s because they’re already focused on spring football.

Now, maybe you see a guy that’s become content, settled into his comfort zone, but all I heard was that Texas Basketball is all hat and no cattle. It’s arguable that taking over State towards the end of his career would be different than others because the infrastructure for success is already in place — rejuvenating even, perhaps.

Maybe the Texas job has become stale to Barnes? Just recently, as reported by the NY Times (link):

With his squad in a late-season tailspin, questions about Barnes’s shaky history of coaching in the N.C.A.A. tournament are being revived.

“I would have cared 10 years ago,” he said of critics questioning his 19-18 N.C.A.A. tournament record. “This is not the most important thing in my life. It’s what I do, but it’s not the most important thing in my life.”

By no means would Barnes avoid this type of criticism on Tobacco Road, but it’s not unreasonable to see in his comments a successful coach that may no longer feel appreciated.

“I don’t care,” Barnes said late Tuesday of the criticism. “I’ve been in this so long, I could care less about what other people think. I quit a long time ago worrying about that.”

So maybe he wasn’t interested in Kentucky in 2007 because he still has sights on finishing his career where he always wanted to be: in his home state? Barnes has made comments over the years that suggest his fondness for coaching in the ACC, particularly on Tobacco Road. Before the 2009 NCAA Tournament Duke-Texas second round game in Greensboro, Ed Hardin of the Greensboro News & Record wrote the following (link):

Rick Barnes of Texas has watched it from various angles through the years, from his younger days in Hickory to his coaching days at Clemson and now with Texas. And if not for twists of fate here and there, Barnes might still be here. Unlike many coaches across the country who have, shall we say, mixed emotions about Tobacco Road basketball, Barnes has always looked at it with wonder.

His goal was to coach in the ACC, and probably one of the North Carolina schools, though he’s never quite said that.

“Obviously, where I grew up, that was my goal, to coach in the ACC,” he said Friday on the eve of the second-round game between Texas and Duke.

Now, it’s easy to read as much or as little into that comment as you’d like, but knowing his volatile history with both Duke and Carolina, it’s certainly plausible to believe that desire was limited — at least after his stint at Clemson — to either State or Wake. And with the right offer he likely could have gone to Wake Forest last spring, so it’s no stretch then to suggest he has probably long-considered the State job enticing. Hardin continues:

How his career path took him to Texas and not to Durham or Raleigh or Winston-Salem is a long story, but he’s destined to slip in and out of the state’s basketball lore until he retires.

That’s the appeal of basketball in North Carolina, something that becomes larger than life to some, requiring life-long allegiances and grudges that never go away.

For State fans, the idea of Rick Barnes itself has become “larger than life.” But it’s simply our response to all those folks –- [cough] Brando, Gminski, Patrick, Katz, Davis, Parrish [cough] -– who think we should just accept our rightful place in Tobacco Road’s hierarchy and leave those “occassional” Glory Days in the past, where they belong. Moreover, the idea itself is transcendent of our collective personality: Barnes wouldn’t back down to the ACC Royalty while at Clemson, so there’s no reason to suggest he would do so at lowly N.C. State.

Look, we can all agree that while he isn’t the best coach in the nation –- he’s certainly Top 10 of all active coaches –- he’s a proven winner, and he’s one of only a few coaches that can say yes and bring not only instant credibility to the program, but more importantly, immediately inspire and unify this weary fan base.

Why shouldn’t we have the same expectations as Duke and Carolina — or for that matter, Kentucky or UCLA or Michigan State? Just because we’ve suffered national irrelevance for two decades doesn’t mean we have to like it. That’s the attitude we project by going after Rick Barnes again. Maybe we missed our opportunity in 2006; maybe this job has never been anything more than our dream for him and he’s not interested this time around, either. That’s fine; I trust Debbie Yow has the search under control, and we’ll never hear much about it if so.

But what do we lose by going after one of the best?

The popular — albeit tired and ignorant — myth is that no one reputable will want the State job. But intelligent folks with an appreciation for not only ACC but college basketball history (like Al Featherston), and especially those of us that don’t need the NC in front of State, know that dog won’t hunt. We know this is a great job with all the resources — facilities, fan base support, TV exposure — to succeed. And surely Barnes knows that hanging that first banner in almost two-and-a-half decades would secure his place as the next N.C. State legend.

And then, who knows, in a few years turn it over to someone like, say, Sean Miller.

Remember that this coaching search, the NCAA Tournament, and other issues are being discussed on the SFN Forums.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

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142 Responses to Will it be Rick Barnes this time around?

  1. hickoryhound 03/21/2011 at 2:27 PM #

    I am not against any of the candidates that I have seen mentioned. I would be happy with any of them, but my number 1 choice is Rick Barnes:

    Rick Barnes: NC State and Hickory need you to come home

  2. hickoryhound 03/21/2011 at 2:30 PM #
  3. MISTA WOLF 03/21/2011 at 4:56 PM #

    Honestly I don’t think were going to get any of the guys we want. I think we need to be careful who we ask as well. These coaches have egos and I truly believe if someone says NO then the next guy we ask is going to say no because he wasn’t asked first. I hope Yow takes this into consideration. We need to go mid major. Barnes, Stevens and Miller aren’t coming. I sure as hell don’t want Brey to come. He can keep his ass in South Bend. I want Billy Donovan to come coach the Pack so damn bad.
    That being said, one of the things that I’ve really been thinking about is next years recruiting classes for some of these coaches. If their thinking about the job then this has to have some kind of deciding factor in actually coming to Raleigh. If there not going to have a real strong class then I believe that might make them think really hard about coaching the Pack. We have talent as underclassmen and also have some good recruits coming in who are sticking with the Pack. Why not jump to where the talent is (that just needs some grooming) and bring some of the players you were recruiting here. Just saying. I’m probably wrong but I’ve been thinking about this since Sidney resigned.

  4. chriscgray 03/21/2011 at 7:09 PM #

    First off, if Mark Few was going anywhere he would already be gone. Sean Miller, Rick Barnes, and the likes of those guys would be great. However the guy we need to give our best and first offer to is Brad Stevens without question. The likelihood of him coming is more unlikely than anything, but we would be kicking ourselves for years if we never made the offer. I remember us not even making Miller an offer the first go around, and I’m sure he would have come. We can’t afford to pass up on giving Stevens an offer. A 34 year old coach of his abilities and convictions is hard to find. I also feel other coach’s such as Mooney at Richmond and Wichita State coach. But whoever we go after needs to be the absolute guy we want, and if it requires putting up the big money to do it……….thats just what has to be done, because if we keep going this direction a lot of revenue will be lost for the whole Athletic Department not just basketball.

  5. mak4dpak 03/21/2011 at 7:51 PM #

    Debbie Yow stated she would not hire anyone she had to convince to take the job a State. I really don’t see Miller or Barnes, in that category. As for Barnes, I certainly hope he is not our man. He didn’t coach Texas in the ACC, but was at Clemson, and wasnt’ that successful, as the ACC is a different world, and he would do no more that he did at Clemson. Time for a new face in the ACC, whether it be Randy Bennett, Mark Few, or others who are ready to step up to the challenge, and have an impressive resume to go with it. I hope we make the right choice. I am ready to return to the RBC to enjoy some victories. Been too long. Time to give the holes and devils a challenge.

  6. mak4dpak 03/21/2011 at 9:26 PM #

    For those of you who have no clue who Randy Bennett is, of Saint Marys, check out his resume for info, and you will find it quite impressive, in 10 years there, excluding year one, but 20+ wins following that, and regular season champs over Mark Few and company, and again in the sweet 16 last year, and no where near the talent we have at State. Probably much more willing to make the jump and accept the challenge of the ACC, and only 49 years old.

  7. robertinraleigh 03/21/2011 at 9:53 PM #

    Brad Stevens grew up going to Indiana games and is waiting for that job. Tom Crean is 28-66(only 8 wins in the Big 10) in three years. Mark him off the list.

  8. theghost 03/21/2011 at 10:14 PM #

    ^by that logic (Stevens), State never should have hired Case, or UCLA Wooden. And Texas never should’ve hired Barnes for fear he’d go back to NC. Even if it happens, so what? Think Duke regrets Spurrier or A&M regrets Bryant because they eventually left to go back home? If Stevens will come, I say let him. Then lavish his wife with everything she could ever want so she never wants to leave Raleigh.

  9. quacko 03/21/2011 at 10:15 PM #

    there’s a reason why some of us dont have a clue who Randy Bennett is. its because we’re not interested and/or he’s not coming here.

    also, for those of us who dont have a clue why you’re pimping him so hard, care to inform us about that?

  10. robertinraleigh 03/21/2011 at 10:39 PM #

    You misunderstood me theGhost. Stevens will not leave Butler until the IU jobs opens up.

  11. packbackr04 03/21/2011 at 10:44 PM #

    Mistawolf wrote:
    “Honestly I don’t think were going to get any of the guys we want. I think we need to be careful who we ask as well. These coaches have egos and I truly believe if someone says NO then the next guy we ask is going to say no because he wasn’t asked first. I hope Yow takes this into consideration. We need to go mid major. Barnes, Stevens and Miller aren’t coming”

    this is the mentality that puts you exactly where everyone wants us to be. i have an ego, and am successful at what i do. I would not feel slighted in the least if a potential employer came to me after offering to another person.

    i am going to try and stay away from the personal attacks, but holy hell people. get a grip and grow a pair! mistawolfs mentality is the mindset that is driving not only NCSU into the ground but the whole f-ing country.

    this is a free country, we should offer whoever we want to offer. you wanna make an omelet? lets crack some freakin eggs.

  12. robertinraleigh 03/21/2011 at 10:59 PM #

    Billy Donovan is a better choice than Barnes and Miller combined. He has nothing left to prove at FLA and maybe he will do like his mentor,Pitino, and move elsewhere to face a challenge and rebuild. He has the balls to go toe to toe with ANYONE. Break the bank and make him the highest paid coach in college and reap the rewards.

  13. mak4dpak 03/22/2011 at 6:41 AM #

    “quacko”, unreal to think any big name coaches are coming here, so call me a realist, not pimping up anyone, Randy Bennetts’ resume speaks for itself, and although you are supposedly a fellow wolfpacker, want to be so rude, I have emailed Debbie Yow, and unlike you she thanked for the recommendation. I am entitled to my opinion, and certainly no need for rudeness. By the way did he tell you he wasn’t coming here since you seem to know, his opinion about a job here. And you obviously don’t read all my comments because I did say whoever it may be, I am just ready for a winning coach, so we can have some pride in “Pack” basketball.

  14. mak4dpak 03/22/2011 at 7:45 AM #

    Forgot to mention that up until this year, I did not know who Randy Bennett was, but was flipping thru the channels and saw them play, and heard the announcers say that he would be a great catch for any big school, so I checked the internet on him resume, and was quite impressed, knowing he doesn’t have the talent pool we have at State, yet has been quite successful, so again “quacko”, thanks for showing me such rudeness. I could resort to that also, but am a much better person than to do that, as I respect others opinions whether I agree or not. That kind on rudeness is something I would expect from a “tarholes fan.” We are supposed to be pulling for the same team.

  15. ADVENTUROO 03/22/2011 at 8:51 AM #

    mak4dpak,

    You make a valid point, but it our rudeness that make us (of some of us….not me…) the Lunatic Fringe WP Fans. The ones that ran off Herbie and irritated some big donor$ who still buy their RBC seats, but do not attend the games.

    I am afraid, my friend, that we, too, despite massive screening programs and background checks, have some folks here that escape their confines and sneak into back offices where the computers have mistakenly been left on and post vile things….

    I have noticed that the more tracion a thought or comment gets, the more they seemingly unite to bring their own personal views to the forefront and their lead comment is “you gotta be Friggin Crazy….or XXXX is totally unstable if he thinks that Coach YYYY would ever….”

    At least we have, as of yet, NOT seen their mug shots with Pack logos on their face (real or fake tatooed?) in the N&O….but eventually we may.

    So, as Rodney King once extolled the masses, after his multi-million dollar settlement with the LAPD, “Can’t we all just get along….?

    The lack of entertainment from watching the progress of N88MF or N89MF winging its way from Duplin County to some exotic place like the NW, Pittsburg, or Austin is just driving the lads (and maybe the lassies) quite bonkers….

    Back to the taxes…..that will quell your combative spirit….

  16. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 03/22/2011 at 9:46 AM #

    ^^ The longer the search goes the more this becomes like a political campaign. Before it is over, the message boards will have created NC State with a choice between a devil worshiper or a baby killer.

    My favorites today-

    My first choice would be Donovan but I think he would only come to State if for some crazy reason he wanted to come to State.

    SMART- Highest up potential at most reasonable cost. I’m not a “break the bank” person. I’m sure most of those telling Yow to break the bank are not the one’s writing any checks for seven figures this week. Very easy to spend other people’s money isn’t it? “I’d give him $4 million a year”. OK sport, write the check for the next 5 years and let’s sign Billy.

    I love the fact that Smart has no loyalty to another program and could stay at the right program for a long time. Don’t give me the BS that he isn’t proven. He is in the Sweet 16 at 32 years old with VCU. Not to mention beat the Chancellor’s former school last weekend.

    MILLER- I’ve never been all that high on Miller but I think that is because my dislike of HS. A solid hire with a lot of up potential for the long run. However, he should be showing loyalty to AZ after two season, a million dollar signing bonus and $2 million a year.

    If he leaves AZ with a winning program, I’m not so sure he wouldn’t leave NC State after two years if he is feeling any pressure at all. Miller is also already in the very highly paid coaching circle.

    STEVENS- Would be my number one but I have concerns about if he would be happy at NC State and wouldn’t move. Could he recruit the kind of players he wants to NC State. I’m not sure if an old A&M and Stevens would work

    BARNES- Another great hire but over the last week I’m starting to not hold some of these “older” highly paid coaches in such high regard. It could work, or it may not. 5 years from now I could see State with a very wealthy coach ready for retirement leaving an ok program. Then again, some of these guys go for a long time.

    I’m amazed at how K seems to approach every season like he is fighting for his first ACC title.

  17. robertinraleigh 03/23/2011 at 9:03 PM #

    I’m amazed at how K has the darkest hair on campus

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