Will it be Rick Barnes this time around?

 

Despite the warning by BJD95 in his “Tin Foil Hat” theory, and despite the fact that every indication suggests the wholly competent Debbie Yow is keeping the usual insiders out of the loop this time around, Saturday’s rumor mill is churning: SFN community member, ‘Strutter’ posted on the forums today that an offer has been made to Texas’ Rick Barnes.

Maybe it’s a smokescreen and there’s no merit to it whatsoever (which is what I happen to believe), but as a charter member of the Lunatic Fringe, I don’t see any harm in getting excited talking about our next coach, especially if it could be Rick Barnes.

The case for Barnes isn’t necessarily quantitative, and it may seem quite mysterious — at the very least, strange — that such a resounding folklore surrounds a guy that didn’t go to State, has never coached at State, and has, at best, only loose connections to State.

As a pragmatist, it bothers me that the numbers –- through today he has a career record of 524-256 (.672) and he’s coaching in his 16th consecutive NCAA Tournament and the 19th of his 23 years as a head coach –- are peripheral to the idea of Rick Barnes at N.C. State.

Our fascination with Barnes –- mine, anyway –- stretches back to his first season at Clemson, when he took over a program in shambles and immediately challenged the conference’s long-established paradigm. Duke and Carolina might always reign as the ACC’s elite and most-favored, but during his four seasons in the league, Barnes promoted aggressiveness over finesse with the explicit intent of making it hard on them both every time they played Clemson. This endeared him to State fans, so when he went to Texas in 1998, many of us expected his time in Austin would be short and that he’d be back in the ACC –-in Raleigh -– after the 2001 season. But those were the early days of Lee Fowler’s burgeoning ineptitude, so we waited for our next opportunity, which came during the rollercoaster, tail-number-tracking days of early April 2006. But, by then, Fowler’s utter incompetence reigned supreme, and Barnes remained at Texas.

Yet, somehow, the idea never died, which doesn’t really add up. Besides being a Hickory native, Barnes’ only solid connection to State is that he was an assistant at Davidson under former State star Eddie Biedenbach. So, yeah, it seems downright arrogant for the fans of this once proud, storied program to have built such folklore on the premise that being Head Basketball Coach at North Carolina State University has always been Barnes’ dream job.

Still, many of us know that we were thisclose in 2006, and appreciate that the main roadblock then won’t be a factor in 2011. But five long years have passed, and it’s entirely plausible that Barnes has no interest this time around; and even if he does, it’s not a done deal.

Considering Barnes is currently one of college basketball’s highest-paid coaches, with an annual salary of $2 million, and knowing it’s likely that Texas, with its rich coffers, would make a counteroffer to keep him, it could require a deal that exceeds our financial capabilities. However, according to the El Paso Times, Barnes doesn’t have a buyout penalty clause in his contract (link). Now, it would be purely speculative to suggest this was intentional during his re-negotiations in April 2006, but it does seem awfully convenient that the he left the door open for when new management took over at State. See what I did there?

Moreover, it’s not unreasonable to expect that, at 56 years old and nearing the end of his 23rd season, Barnes may no longer have the passion, or the energy, to rebuild a struggling program where the fan base expects, at the very least, to perennially make the NCAA Tournament and challenge for the ACC title. Barnes hinted as much in April 2007, when his name was mentioned for the Kentucky job, just one year after turning down State. John Feinstein wrote in the Washington Post (link):

“I think I have one of the five best jobs in the country,” Barnes said last week. “We can recruit in Texas and we can recruit nationally. We’re good enough to contend nationally. And if we lose in the second round of the tournament…the whole state isn’t crying for my head.”

That’s because they’re already focused on spring football.

Now, maybe you see a guy that’s become content, settled into his comfort zone, but all I heard was that Texas Basketball is all hat and no cattle. It’s arguable that taking over State towards the end of his career would be different than others because the infrastructure for success is already in place — rejuvenating even, perhaps.

Maybe the Texas job has become stale to Barnes? Just recently, as reported by the NY Times (link):

With his squad in a late-season tailspin, questions about Barnes’s shaky history of coaching in the N.C.A.A. tournament are being revived.

“I would have cared 10 years ago,” he said of critics questioning his 19-18 N.C.A.A. tournament record. “This is not the most important thing in my life. It’s what I do, but it’s not the most important thing in my life.”

By no means would Barnes avoid this type of criticism on Tobacco Road, but it’s not unreasonable to see in his comments a successful coach that may no longer feel appreciated.

“I don’t care,” Barnes said late Tuesday of the criticism. “I’ve been in this so long, I could care less about what other people think. I quit a long time ago worrying about that.”

So maybe he wasn’t interested in Kentucky in 2007 because he still has sights on finishing his career where he always wanted to be: in his home state? Barnes has made comments over the years that suggest his fondness for coaching in the ACC, particularly on Tobacco Road. Before the 2009 NCAA Tournament Duke-Texas second round game in Greensboro, Ed Hardin of the Greensboro News & Record wrote the following (link):

Rick Barnes of Texas has watched it from various angles through the years, from his younger days in Hickory to his coaching days at Clemson and now with Texas. And if not for twists of fate here and there, Barnes might still be here. Unlike many coaches across the country who have, shall we say, mixed emotions about Tobacco Road basketball, Barnes has always looked at it with wonder.

His goal was to coach in the ACC, and probably one of the North Carolina schools, though he’s never quite said that.

“Obviously, where I grew up, that was my goal, to coach in the ACC,” he said Friday on the eve of the second-round game between Texas and Duke.

Now, it’s easy to read as much or as little into that comment as you’d like, but knowing his volatile history with both Duke and Carolina, it’s certainly plausible to believe that desire was limited — at least after his stint at Clemson — to either State or Wake. And with the right offer he likely could have gone to Wake Forest last spring, so it’s no stretch then to suggest he has probably long-considered the State job enticing. Hardin continues:

How his career path took him to Texas and not to Durham or Raleigh or Winston-Salem is a long story, but he’s destined to slip in and out of the state’s basketball lore until he retires.

That’s the appeal of basketball in North Carolina, something that becomes larger than life to some, requiring life-long allegiances and grudges that never go away.

For State fans, the idea of Rick Barnes itself has become “larger than life.” But it’s simply our response to all those folks –- [cough] Brando, Gminski, Patrick, Katz, Davis, Parrish [cough] -– who think we should just accept our rightful place in Tobacco Road’s hierarchy and leave those “occassional” Glory Days in the past, where they belong. Moreover, the idea itself is transcendent of our collective personality: Barnes wouldn’t back down to the ACC Royalty while at Clemson, so there’s no reason to suggest he would do so at lowly N.C. State.

Look, we can all agree that while he isn’t the best coach in the nation –- he’s certainly Top 10 of all active coaches –- he’s a proven winner, and he’s one of only a few coaches that can say yes and bring not only instant credibility to the program, but more importantly, immediately inspire and unify this weary fan base.

Why shouldn’t we have the same expectations as Duke and Carolina — or for that matter, Kentucky or UCLA or Michigan State? Just because we’ve suffered national irrelevance for two decades doesn’t mean we have to like it. That’s the attitude we project by going after Rick Barnes again. Maybe we missed our opportunity in 2006; maybe this job has never been anything more than our dream for him and he’s not interested this time around, either. That’s fine; I trust Debbie Yow has the search under control, and we’ll never hear much about it if so.

But what do we lose by going after one of the best?

The popular — albeit tired and ignorant — myth is that no one reputable will want the State job. But intelligent folks with an appreciation for not only ACC but college basketball history (like Al Featherston), and especially those of us that don’t need the NC in front of State, know that dog won’t hunt. We know this is a great job with all the resources — facilities, fan base support, TV exposure — to succeed. And surely Barnes knows that hanging that first banner in almost two-and-a-half decades would secure his place as the next N.C. State legend.

And then, who knows, in a few years turn it over to someone like, say, Sean Miller.

Remember that this coaching search, the NCAA Tournament, and other issues are being discussed on the SFN Forums.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

AD & Department Coaching Carousel College Basketball Debbie Yow NCS Basketball

142 Responses to Will it be Rick Barnes this time around?

  1. Lunatic Fringe 03/20/2011 at 8:50 PM #

    I took a tour through some of the Texas boards and appears a lot of fans banging on him for the loss.

  2. Wulfpack 03/20/2011 at 8:55 PM #

    Miller got the better of Barnes. Has less talent and not been around for long at all. Another early loss in the NCAAs for Barnes. Texas fans won’t be happy, if they care to take their eye off spring football.

    Not sure how anyone can knock Few. He’s done great things at Gonzaga. If he can do it at Gonzaga, he sure as hell can do it at a place like NCSU. I don’t think he is the guy but just wanted to offer my opinion.

  3. ADVENTUROO 03/20/2011 at 8:56 PM #

    I can get you a copy of my Certificate of Stability….they even let me out in public and I am allowed to blog without the staff monitoring me. So far, only RUMORS here. Two folks have supposed inside info that MF was on Dr. Yow’s A list and her “West Coast” comment definitely fit him. I was told by a source, how reliable, only time will tell, that we had already requested permission to talk to him. Was this good info? Don’t know, but it is very credible…

    One could make the same “remarks” about Rick Barnes….

    Personally, I think that we are, or should be, MORE interested in MF than RB, but I could live with either….

    We shall see what we shall see….now maybe others will address your “personality” issues…. Please forward us last complete mental evaluation…so that we KNOW your status…

    That was a joke…I did NOT take your “unstable” comment seriously…as I HOPE you did not mean it “seriously”

    Have a nice night….gotta do the taxes….

  4. LRM 03/20/2011 at 9:06 PM #

    I don’t think folks are necessarily down on Few, but like me, they just don’t see it as a fit. I think he’s a great coach…for Gonzaga, but as I’ve pointed out earlier, he just doesn’t make sense (to me) in the ACC, and I don’t think that’s who Yow meant with her “West Coast” comment, because he’s never been anywhere but Gonzaga.

    Few has found his comfort zone in the very mediocre West Coast Conference, which is comprised entirely of small, private (faith-based) schools. He has built a media darling that for the past decade has dominated the WCC but underachieved nationally, partially due to the fact he recruits well in the Pacific Northwest but not nationally, and fits it to his system. He also turned down his alma mater, Oregon, last year.

    I don’t see how either Yow or Few would consider him a fit for State’s job.

  5. ryebread 03/20/2011 at 9:12 PM #

    Honestly, I’d prefer MF to Barnes as well. I know that’s blasphemy in these parts, but I think Few has done more with less and Barnes has done less with more. I know that Barnes can recruit — but I honestly think that I can recruit at Texas. I know that Few can develop a group of players, mold them into a team, coaches fundamentally sound basketball and has a track record of success against ACC teams (with almost all games on the road or on a neutral court). I’d love for it to be Few.

    I don’t think it’s Few. He turned down his alma mater AND a king’s ransom from Nike when he turned down Oregon. I don’t think he’s going anywhere. Paired with some things that I’ve read about how he doesn’t want to cow tow to the big donors, and I think he’ll be at Gonzaga for the foreseeable future. I’d love to be proven wrong.

    I had Arizona over Texas and into the Sweet 16 in my bracket. I felt that Miller was a better coach, but that Texas was more talented. Nothing about what I saw tonight changed my mind about either of those positions. I’d love to be proven wrong, but I don’t think we’re getting Miller.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to have Barnes, but he’s not at the top of my list. We might have a shot though after tonight’s loss.

    Adventuroo is right about one thing. After tonight, only one of our “dream” target list is still playing (Miller) and several of our “fallback” candidates are as well (Brey, Mooney, and Smart). I could see us announcing something this week, but if we don’t that either means we’re waiting on Miller or that Yow’s actually hiring Brey (if he wins tonight).

  6. Wulfpack 03/20/2011 at 9:19 PM #

    I totally agree that Barnes is a better fit for NCSU. NC native, spent time at Clemson battling the blues, etc.

    Few has most certainly done more with less if you are comparing the two. It’s a moot point though. I’d take him in a heartbeat.

  7. hball57 03/20/2011 at 9:30 PM #

    I think the tournament is working in our favor. We can now talk to Barnes, Dixon or Holland and find their interest. Maybe after Thursday we can talk to Stevens or Miller. If we miss, Smart is looking better and better. BTW I think Mooney is a great coach, but do we really want another “modified Princeton” offense?

  8. MattN 03/20/2011 at 9:33 PM #

    I would be more stunned if we got Few than if we got Donovan. Few must have had every major program with an opening in the last 10 years offer him a mint to leave and he hasn’t done it yet. Oregon couldn’t even get him. Know where he played college ball? Oregon. If he didn’t leave to lead his alma mater in a major conference, he’s flat not going to leave.

    Give it up. Not happening ever…

  9. LRM 03/20/2011 at 9:36 PM #

    ^Few is an Orgegon alum, but he didn’t play there.

  10. mak4dpak 03/20/2011 at 9:43 PM #

    So if Mark Few is a potential coach for State, again why not Randy Bennett, who won the regular season in the WAC, where Gonzaga plays. Check his resume at Saint Marys, as it is quite impressive. And even the television analyst who have called games for Saint Marys, have stated he would be a great catch for a bigger school. What could he do with a more talented team, like we have? He just has been in the spotlight like the others mentioned, but still has an impressive resume.

  11. LRM 03/20/2011 at 9:45 PM #

    No one other than Adventuroo thinks Mark Few is a candidate.

  12. werncstate 03/20/2011 at 10:11 PM #

    Whomever we get will be an upgrade. I’m still hoping for Brad Davis. Yow does monitor theblogs you know.

  13. quacko 03/20/2011 at 10:13 PM #

    who in the hell is brad davis?

  14. ADVENTUROO 03/20/2011 at 10:37 PM #

    LRM,

    Not to be antagonist…and I have just worked on my taxes….

    Fenrir reported much earlier last week that HIS sources had Few at the top of the list and that we had contacted the Zag AD and asked for permission….which is exactly the same thing I heard.

    I do not pretend to be a Few Promoter or Cheerleader. I have read more than a FEW articles about him, and MARK my words, he is a unique individual. He actually never played any collegiate sports due to a football injury. He is an Oregon grad…but the reason that he turned it down was the fellow that he was in competition with…or at least that is what I remember. He did it for ethical reasons….god forbid a coach with ethics today….so maybe all of you are right…he will NOT fit in the ACC.

    The UNC floggers are passing around a Yahoo Sports, I think, article about how Larry Brown is looking for gainful employement and is practicting his pitch to Frau Yow….

    I think she would return his call, but only to politely and pointedly say, NADA, but thanks for thinking of us and good luck in the future.

    SO, the REAL March Madness has or is starting….it is beginning to take it’s toll….

    SFN needs to set up a pool and let us chip in some small change…say $10 or so….with the date and the candidate….would be interesting to see who will win.

    I for one, still feel pretty good about it….seems that RB is a nostalgic favorite, if I read the tea leaves, but folks really want someone else that is not receiving AARP mail.

    I think that we have run our course on Italians….the first one was great, but the second one did not work out as planned….even though I personally also liked him.

    Nighty Night all….don’t let the Rumor Mill Bugs Bite…they carry strange and contagious diseases….which impacts the brain immediately and have long term effects on behavior…

  15. robertinraleigh 03/20/2011 at 11:12 PM #

    I played golf today with someone on the selection committee today and could not get one bit of insider information from him. I tried to push Billy Donovan’s name – he is aggressive, young,ready for a new challenge, not scared of ANYONE, plays an exciting style, and is a national champion.

  16. ADVENTUROO 03/21/2011 at 9:11 AM #

    RobertinRaleigh,

    The fact that he maintained the confidentiality that Debbie Yow talked about speaks volumes about THIS search compared to last time. I am really encouraged by that observation.

    The fact that we KNOW that Santa Claus will visit us, but don’t have a CLUE as to what he will leave under the tree….and the fact that we have been good little Wolfpackers just adds to the excitement…and the suspense.

    I am beginning to have a good vibe about this and think that Ms. Claus has packed a little extra surprise in the stature challenged elf’s pack….

    Just have to wait for the news to come out….and these leaks will probably be much more accurate that what Jeff Gravely was told, prematurely, about Coach Lowe’s departure…..his “settlement” was only 80% PLUS what Gravely originally reported from “Multiple” AD sources….

    Bob Lee’s moniker of Frau Yow may well be on target….

  17. MattN 03/21/2011 at 9:32 AM #

    Thanks for the clarification LRM. I saw he attened Oregon and assumed he played. Seems he had some shoulder injury that sidelined him. Still, that’s his alma mater, and they could not lure him from a mid-major school.

  18. Bowlpack 03/21/2011 at 9:35 AM #

    I’m not sure that you can definitely say that Miller outcoached Barnes last night. Texas came back from being down and then got beat by a circus shot by Arizona’s best player. I watched a game between two very evenly matched teams that came down to the wire. Somebody had to win. Honestly, I would be ecstatic if either of those two would come to
    Raleigh. For some reason, I see Miller as less likely to make a change based on the fact that he’s building something special at Arizona and is the top dog in a generally weak conference. Barnes might be getting some heat now with the early exit in the tourney…

    Who freakin’ knows?

  19. BillyTheKid 03/21/2011 at 10:11 AM #

    What are the Barnes kids ages? I remember something last time about something being said about them being in high school and not wanting to move. I know that wasn’t the real reason Barnes didn’t come, but I was still wondering if that could or would be an issue this time around.

  20. ZZ 03/21/2011 at 10:33 AM #

    Come on guys…it’s obvious….BRAD STEVENS !!!!!!!!!!

  21. ADVENTUROO 03/21/2011 at 10:35 AM #

    BillyTheKid,

    Barnes has a son who will be 27 this fall and a daughter that just turned 23 in January. That SHOULD leave him Wide Open…don’t know where they went or if they are still in school, but their undergraduate days should be over…as well the “free” tuition.

    This IS NOT an endorsement or a condenmation of Rick Barnes as our future coach, only an answer to your question…

    Mark Few (48) has three children – aged 11, 9 & 5.

    Jamie Dixon (46) has two children – aged 9 & 7. Dixon was also a child actor who appeared in some commercials.

    You can do your own due diligence on any other candidate….

  22. LRM 03/21/2011 at 10:44 AM #

    “What are the Barnes kids ages? I remember something last time about something being said about them being in high school and not wanting to move. I know that wasn’t the real reason Barnes didn’t come, but I was still wondering if that could or would be an issue this time around.”

    Barnes is 56, and five years ago I believe his daughter was in high school about to attend UT. Last time around his family situation certainly factored in, but not more so than Lee Fowler being an incompetent wretch.

  23. RLynn71 03/21/2011 at 12:39 PM #

    I watched the Arizonia/Texas game yesterday just like most of you. I saw an sharp young eyes wide open coach and a tired old man. I know what a tired old man looks like I see him in the mirrow every morning. I think to unite this fanbase (if thats possible) I would bet on the kid!

  24. ZZ 03/21/2011 at 1:22 PM #

    I dont see how anyone, if you saw the Butler game, cannot be screamin’ for Brad Stevens!!!! Young, composed, can recruit, on the upswing…I hope this guy is the future of NC State

  25. LRM 03/21/2011 at 1:32 PM #

    I think most everyone will agree that Stevens has proven he’s a good coach and he’ll probably someday be a great coach. I’m sure he’d do well at State. But you also have to consider the mutual fit between a coach and a program.

    Stevens is a native of suburban Indianapolis and grew up a Hoosiers fan. It’s very possible that job will be open after next season, and logic says his sights are set on moving to Bloomington; I’d even go so far as to say he probably included that exception in his buyout clause when he signed long-term with Butler last April.

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