Monday Basketball Thoughts

Earlier this week, BJD95 told me that he had quit looking for insights into the coaching search from media sources because they knew absolutely nothing.   In the unlikely event that anyone questions BJD’s conclusion, Ed Hardin manages to remove all doubt

I would discuss/dissect Hardin’s piece, but there isn’t anything there worth discussing.     Ed manages to contradict his title, “N.C. State’s coach search not so secret any longer” in just a few paragraphs when he admits that his best State source knows nothing.   So in the absence of facts, he then regurgitates media and message board speculation with a few comments about State’s last search thrown in for good measure.   All in all, a highly forgettable “commentary”.

The absence of hard data shouldn’t be an excuse for poor journalism or for rampant stupidity.   It should still be possible to intelligently discuss potential coaches, even if Debbie Yow never considers that particular coach.    BTW, endless repetition of your favorite coaches’ resume doesn’t qualify as intelligent conversation.  

So rather than rehash the resume of potential coaches, I thought that we should take a big picture view of Debbie Yow’s job.   By big picture, I don’t mean “Hire Shaka Smart NOW!!!!!”.     I mean from a general perspective, what do I expect from Debbie Yow in this coaching search?

If your answer is HIRE A BIG-NAME COACH…

Then turn in your password on the way out and wait on Hardin to retire.   You could take over for him and no one would ever notice the difference.

If your answer is HIRE A GOOD COACH, then you have moved above the Hardin Level (analogous to Boomer’s Mendoza Line), but we’re still not on the same page.    Every AD at every college and every general manager of any professional team WANTS to hire a good coach.   However, this simply isn’t as easy as the average fan makes it out to be.   Even Ron Wellman gets a clunker now and then.

Along with all of the mother-hood comments about professionalism, fund raising, and avoiding public ridicule like the last BB coaching search, Yow’s real job is to hire a coach with a resume good enough to indicate that he COULD be successful at State.   THEN her job switches to annual evaluations, the removal of ineffective coaches, and the rewarding of successful coaches.   None of these tasks are necessarily simple, but her salary pretty much eliminates the possibility of an easy job and a gentle glide into retirement. 

I always point to UVa’s hiring of Pete Gillen as a good coaching search that went wrong.   Based on Gillen’s resume, there was every reason for UVa fans to hope for a return to the high-water marks reached by Terry Holland.    But in the final analysis, a local (to me) sports radio host summarized the Gillen era with “The only thing that Pete Gillen ever succeeded at in C’ville was to make the Jeff Jones era look good.”  

So Debbie’s first job is to hire a coach that has been successful at his current job, whether that current job is at a BCS school or a mid-major.  Hopefully, her next job is to keep a successful coach happy without making a contract mistake like GT made with Hewitt or UVa made with Gillen.   But if the next coach falls short, THEN her job will be to remove him with the same professionalism that we saw with Sidney.  

About VaWolf82

Engineer living in Central Va. and senior curmudgeon amongst SFN authors One wife, two kids, one dog, four vehicles on insurance, and four phones on cell plan...looking forward to empty nest status. Graduated 1982

Coaching Carousel General NCS Basketball

38 Responses to Monday Basketball Thoughts

  1. Hungwolf 03/28/2011 at 7:12 AM #

    Pitino never stays anywhere too long. Just a thought, along with Yow is attracted to strong personalities.

  2. packplantpath 03/28/2011 at 7:13 AM #

    I don’t think you got the memo. At the very least, your tone indicates you did not. Just in case, I have attached the memo.

    From: Board Monkeys
    Subject: >FW.The Sky

    It’s Falling!!!

    Sincerely yours,
    Board Monkeys Everywhere.

  3. tractor57 03/28/2011 at 7:17 AM #

    At this point I do see signs of heightened activity.

    I see Yow’s job regarding the basketball program to be:
    1. Have a plan for what is the ideal candidate – check
    2. Conduct a search that is for the most part out of the media – check
    3. Select the candidate with the best potential for success – TBD
    4. Evaluate the progress of the program with the new hire, provide needed support services and do all possible to make the program successful
    5. If a further change us needed make that determination quickly and take action
    6. Be the anti-Fowler

  4. albunde6 03/28/2011 at 7:58 AM #

    “DY’s real job is to hire a coach with a resume good enough to indicate that he could be successful at State” Amen VaWolf, that is all that DY can do. Rest will be up to the coach.

  5. Texpack 03/28/2011 at 8:03 AM #

    So Debbie’s first job is to hire a coach that has been successful at his current job, whether that current job is at a BCS school or a mid-major. Hopefully, her next job is to keep a successful coach happy without making a contract mistake like GT made with Hewitt or UVa made with Gillen. But if the next coach falls short, THEN her job will be to remove him with the same professionalism that we saw with Sidney.

    ^This is the part people need to focus on. I’ve posted before that hiring people is an inexact science, so the key to getting your personnel situation optimized is to make changes when things aren’t working. The reason many State fans are so afraid of hiring a mid-major coach is that they have had to live through an extended period when the athletics department and university administration had such low standards that they never thought it was appropriate to make a change. We are, however, due to have a basketball coaching hire work out well.

  6. PackMan97 03/28/2011 at 8:11 AM #

    I don’t even know that “success at the current job” needs to be a requirement. After all, that would have eliminated a young Coach K from consideration.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski#Head_coaching_record

    Would we hire a 9-17 coach from Army? There are a lot of variables that go into a coach hire. Needless to say, I have faith that Ms. Yow and Dr. Woodson will hire the best available hire for NC State. It’s a nice feeling to have compared to the previous folks in charge.

    Of course, I’d be SHOCKED if we hired someone who wasn’t currently experiencing success.

  7. VaWolf82 03/28/2011 at 8:22 AM #

    Would we hire a 9-17 coach from Army?

    People win the lottery too. That doesn’t mean that I am going to buy a ticket.

  8. NCSU_CEM_2002 03/28/2011 at 8:25 AM #

    Ga Tech hired Dayton’s coach (Gregory)…one less job opening out of the way and all “A-list” names still available…anything can happen and nothing has formally been ruled out. I’m looking forward to an exciting week with an announcement before final four play begins!

  9. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 03/28/2011 at 8:53 AM #

    Often I think that an alumni base of engineers and scientist are probably not the best people to evaluate a coaching search. There is no formula for assuring that you hire a coach that will be great a State, and coaches don’t fit in neat little boxes.

    I know this must drive the left brain people crazy. Coaching is an art not a science. If you are a great coach you will be great coach at ages 12,22,32… If you are average coach you will be an average coach at ages 32,42,52…

    It isn’t like someone like Sendek can just study a little more, work a little harder, read another book, and coach another 20 years. Sendek will always be an average college basketball coach. That is who he is and that doesn’t mean he can’t get a few bounces and win a championship and be considered to be a great-average coach.

    There are probably less than 100 people on earth that would be a great college basketball coach, thus the reason they get paid so well. There are tens of thousands of people on earth that could be an average college coach if given an opportunity.

  10. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 9:17 AM #

    tcthdi, you hit the nail square on the head. If you get consumed with only resume, you will miss out on potential great ones. You look for certain qualities that make someone a great coach, like: is he a great leader? Is he a great motivator? Does he have a high level drive to succeed? Can he get the most out of people? Can he relate to people at a high level?, etc… Those qualities are gifts, they are inborn. That’s why, like you said, the great ones are rare. To be able to identify and get one of those when they are an upstart, you will be greatly rewarded. If you looked at all the great ones now, someone saw something in them when they were a “nobody”. They weren’t always great “out of the box”. If you want a safe hire, you will most likely stay average, stay safe.

  11. Wolfman 9806 03/28/2011 at 9:21 AM #

    Couldn’t disagree with the is post more. Yes, DW will need to hire a big name coach to satisfy the masses. Generally, a big name coach has earned the reputation because of a successful track record.

    Hardin’s article is typical fluff of a journalist that has nothing new to offer. It rehashes the same old rumors and stereotypes.

  12. Howler 03/28/2011 at 9:34 AM #

    Last night, 60 minutes had a good segment on Bob Hurley, Sr. of St Anthony’s prep school in New Jersey. He has had multiple state and national high school championships and a lot of college coaching offers through the years, but he has stayed put. The biggest asset he has as a coach is that he doesn’t put up with any crap. I personally don’t want a coach who appears to be best buddies with his players. You don’t often see coaches like that holding championship trophies.

    Ultimately, I think it is a combination of professionalism and passion plus basketball intelligence that is required for a good coach. I remember when Sid was first hired, he had a press conference where he joked and laughed and directed comments toward Cedric Simmons, saying with a wry smile that he was planning to put in lots of plays to benefit a talented big man. Cedric had already made a decision to leave for the NBA, and I remember thinking that Sid seemed a little too informal in front of the microphone.

    Sid brought the passion, Sendek brought the professionalism, and it’s been a long time since we’ve seen a coach with high basketball IQ. I want a coach with all three.

  13. BJD95 03/28/2011 at 9:40 AM #

    DY will be under a great deal of scrutiny if she has to settle for a mid-major. We won’t throw her (or the new coach) under the bus right away…but it would definitely raise caution flags. Especially given what I’ve learned about last week.

    That said – I believe a clear homerun hire is at least 80-90 percent likely at this point. Feel very good.

  14. tjfoose1 03/28/2011 at 9:42 AM #

    Someone else suggests Pitino? He’s been my dark horse, shocker candidate from day 1.

    From the looks of his in-studio interaction with Barkley, if we could turn Sir Charles into a shade of blue homer, Pitino just might consider it.

  15. tjfoose1 03/28/2011 at 9:46 AM #

    Coach K was successful at Army.

    As an AD, if you measure qualifying success with only W’s & L’s when considering a potential hire, you are unqualified for the job you hold.

  16. happypackdad 03/28/2011 at 9:53 AM #

    “I believe a clear homerun hire is at least 80-90 percent likely at this point. Feel very good.”

    so who are the “big three” homerun candidates I keep reading about? The “A” list so to speak.

  17. tjfoose1 03/28/2011 at 9:53 AM #

    “Sid brought the passion, Sendek
    brought the professionalism, and it’s
    been a long time since we’ve seen a
    coach with high basketball IQ.”

    It ain’t about “bringing it”, just about any one can do that. It’s about teaching it.

    If it ain’t learned, you’re only instructing. You can be the most passionate, knowledgable, smartest basketball person on the planet, but if you can’t teach, you’re useless as a coach.

  18. Lunatic Fringe 03/28/2011 at 9:58 AM #

    We as a fanbase have to start changing the way we view our programs. We expect the worse, have pity parties amongst ourselves, and wonder when things will turnaround.

    I feel confident that DY will make the right decision and continued comments by SFN mods, who have always been upfront and honest, confirms my belief.

  19. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 10:04 AM #

    K’s record at Army was 73-59. He went 9-17 his last season there. If you call that a success, then that’s fine. Most fans are so consumed about pleasing or unifying the fan base at the point of the hiring, at the first news conference, it you will. I hope DY doesn’t think that way, or go that route. That sort of approach is lazy and lack courage. I would call a LF approach. I hope she will go out and get the best coach possible regardless of conference affiliations, name recognitions. These A-list, B-list, dream hire BS’s that’s are regularly uttered by radio/tv talking heads and rampantly repeated by most here scare me. After the first tip off on the first game of the season this coming fall, winning (charlie sheen?), more than anything else, will please and unify the fan base, not the news conference in the next week or so.

  20. SandhillsWolf 03/28/2011 at 10:10 AM #

    K was a young coach when he was at Army….I’m sure he learned a whole lot during his time there that he carried w/ him to Duke.

  21. In The Weeds 03/28/2011 at 10:13 AM #

    Ed Hardin has always been a tool…

  22. In The Weeds 03/28/2011 at 10:14 AM #

    Long time daily reader (since the last coaching search), finally decided to post.

  23. Pack84 03/28/2011 at 10:35 AM #

    Looks like Ed Hardin’s boss told him to write a column about the NC State coaching search and have it ready to go to print in 10 minutes. I know 4th graders more capable of critical thinking than what was shown in that column. I mean – the “point” (if there is one) of his column is that the NC State coaching search is no longer under wraps. But he turns around 3 or so paragraphs later and admits that his best State source is completely in the dark. Well hell Ed, which is it?

    Yeah – we know Sean Miller’s dad said Sean wasn’t interested. OK – other than that what DO we know? Nothing.

    Ed – you’re an idiot.

  24. UnclePen 03/28/2011 at 10:37 AM #

    Welcome Weeds…

  25. Howler 03/28/2011 at 10:45 AM #

    Pitino, who I hadn’t even thought about, would be a tape measure homerun. He has a little Larry Brown wanderlust in him, so who knows? He might think it would be a blast to dive in and coach against K and Roy.

    He, or someone like him, would not be in it for the ultimate long haul, but it would be fun.

Leave a Reply