Here…we…go!! (7:15pm update)

Coaching Carousel181

We hope that you have noticed the cautious manner with which we have ‘covered’ the current NC State Basketball coaching situation.

Quite frankly, there hasn’t been anything to really ‘cover’ yet, and we are not just going to write a lot of nonesense just for the sake of writing.  We are not going to pass off speculation as “inside information.”  This is in contrast to other websites that may look to exploit the current situation to generate pageviews and premium memberships.

Despite what oblivious media members may say, I am stepping out on a limb and predicting that NC State will have a coach in place before next weekend.

As ‘ushum’ said on our message boards:

things are starting to heat up for real now, this week is going to be a blast…everything before now was just qualifying, this week is the daytona 500..

Ushum is correct.  Everything we know points to the fact that almost all of the quote-unquote “information” out in the public arena up through yesterday has been bullshit — tales told by message board idiots, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  Likely much of this “information” has been put out (or has been allowed to stay out) for the purpose of misdirection.

SFN has learned that State committed early on to give interviews to certain coaches (2 big-name coaches in particular), and those interviews had not been able to happen as of yesterday.  Until those interviews happened, the process could not begin to unfold.  However, given the way the games have played out this weekend, the process can now begin to develop, and we expect it to develop very quickly. (Understand that when I say “interview,” the contacts may not take the form of traditional sit-down meetings.)

So, now that everything can begin, let’s take a look at what is going on this morning.  These items were posted as Tweets on the Sports Illustrated website this morning

@LakeRosenberg Ben considered DePaul last year. He would absolutely consider Texas.
about 5 hours ago

@goodmanonfox @GottliebShow Here’s a list of folks who would consider Texas: Everybody except K , Roy and Self.
about 5 hours ago

Hmmm.  Why would there be such specific speculation about the Texas job, and why just now?  Expect a lot more of this type of information to be flying around in the next couple days.  Much of it will require a lot more analysis than the “traditional local media” can give — they tend to jump on the hot name de jour and write endlessly about that one guy until the next name pops up, when they switch to writing about him.  The situation is much more complex than that.

Stay tuned to SFN as we try to make sense and explain the information as it develops over the next week (or less).

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***4:00 Update***
Some very recent tweets highlight the new direction and pace of this story — as we expected.  Here is the most notable.

Tim Brando’s Twitter has this:

On the ground at home and hearing some rumblings about a potential knockout hire at NCST.Unlike the last search this one not as public.Smart 30 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

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***6:00 Update***
From SFN: I just noticed that a lot of people are reading/interpreting our original comments as some kind of a nod to Rick Barnes. Please allow me to be more clear — that is NOT our intent. Our previous comments were designed to explain that the first two weeks of NCAA Tournament play served almost as ‘gating’ items for our search — not to focus on Barnes.

Brando’s tweet refers to a rumor that has been out there for a while about a HOME RUN NAME that has been discretely kept on the down-low. That jives exactly with our point that things get started in earnest NOW.

Ultimately, we expect NC State will either nail one of three BIG NAMES in the next week…or we will end up on “List Two”. The morons that have been reporting that NC State was already on some kind of second list (with names like Shaka Smart and others) just shows how much they know — nada.

***7:15 Update***
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reports that (supposed) possible N.C. State target Chris Mooney has signed a 10-year extension with Richmond (AJC.com link). Scratch him off the list of potential B-list candidates.

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LINK TO MESSAGE FORUMS where conversation and information flow in various threads.

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181 Responses to Here…we…go!! (7:15pm update)

  1. mwcric 03/27/2011 at 11:28 PM #

    “…track record of up and comers who have NOT worked out.”

    Like?

    Les Robinson and Sidney Lowe were not up and comers on anyone’s list. They were stop-gap measures. The last thing Robinson was hired to do was coach basketball. He was a PR move, bringing a friendly face to a program that had been drug through the mud by unscrupulous media and a spineless administration.

    Lowe was a desperation hire with the hopes of him being an alum saving face for a disastrously run search.

    So that leaves Sendek, and while he certainly underachieved and certainly plateaued and was never going to improve, disaster is a bit of a strong word. It’s not like we were going 7-23 every year under him. I was happy to see him go, but I don’t regard his tenure as a train wreck; more of a stall on the tracks.

    My irritation with this rationale is that Mike Krzyzewski, Gary Williams and Roy Williams will all most likely retire within the next decade, as will Seth Greenberg and Leonard Hamilton for that matter. This is a golden opportunity to bring in a young program builder that will get a huge head start on the new coaches at up to five other ACC schools. He can have the program on an upward trajectory while the other schools are reorganizing and reloading and give the Pack the upper hand for once. With Barnes, you’re breaking the bank on a guy pushing 60 whose career has clearly plateaued. Granted, it’s a great vista from that plateau, but it’s still a plateau.

    If we’re going to have to make another new hire in 5-7 years anyway due to Barnes retiring, what difference does it make if we get a young guy and he doesn’t work out? We’re having to make another hire regardless.

    And why is everyone 100% confident in Yow’s ability to hire the right established coach, but 100% confident as well that she’ll definitely hire a loser from the mid-major ranks if she goes that route? Makes zero sense to me. In the last five years Barnes has made it past the second round of the NCAAs once, and his average Big 12 finish has been third. We weren’t happy just getting there with Herb, so why are we going to be happy just showing up with Barnes? Because one time he yelled at Dean Smith?!? He has one a grand total of one conference tournament championship in 23 years, and has only one solo first-place regular-season finish (plus two in which he tied with other teams). If he was 47 instead of 57 I might see this differently, but the guy is in cruise control mode now.

  2. Wolfy__79 03/27/2011 at 11:30 PM #

    for whatever people’s concern is about nc state. i have to mention where we are right now! we have one of, if not the most competitive bargaining chips out there for ANY coach..save self, k, roy and calapari.

    let us add the passionate fan base..
    oh yeah, how about lozo, howell, wood, leslie, vandenburg, cjw, painter, harrow. the roster is loaded. it’s almost a perfect fit for any coach with his head screwed on straight. i can’t imagine any coach not seriously thinking of our job not being at or near the top. yes, there’s a need for a boost in culture.. but seriously, this is a great place to start or finish your career.

    i will be thrilled with just about any of the coaches we’ve talked about..

  3. Wufpacker 03/27/2011 at 11:42 PM #

    Robinson wasn’t a bad coach and could have had better success if he wasn’t hamstrung. Not a record breaker by any means, but the man did fall on the grenade (or more appropriately, allowed his career to fall on the grenade) for the good of his alma mater.

  4. eas 03/27/2011 at 11:49 PM #

    No one here thinks RB is the greatest coach that ever lived. However, he is an excellent coach with solid recruiting skills. Bottom line is it would be a tremendous hire for us. Heck, if he were 95 years old and could consistently make us a top 20 team for 5 years before he retires than I’m in. We are in perfect shape to land another top tier coach and continue on. Again, that’s not to say Miller, Billy D, Stevens etc. are not the top picks here (we all know they are) but RB is not far behind. If he were 40 than it wouldn’t be an issue but neither is most of the best coaches out there.

    As for Shaka, you have to love his enthusiasm and his players respond well to him. That doesn’t make him a great coach but it is a huge plus. 20 years of rolling snake eyes on the next big thing is a game I have grown tired of. I personally like his style and his confidence. Although, I would prefer any of the top tier proven coaches (proven being many years of consistent success) at this point in our long stint of misery.

    DY is the AD but she is also running a business to fund all athletics. Therefore, selling tickets, filling seats, getting big donors back in the game etc. is what she has to do. Barnes could certainly jump start the money machine again on his name alone (as would the others we all prefer). I’m just saying that the Barnes timing is a really good thing right now if it turns out to be true.

    Fortunately, it appears that whomever we pick up will be an improvement and SID did a real good job of setting the ground work.

  5. wolfpack4ever 03/27/2011 at 11:59 PM #

    Wufpacker said:

    Robinson wasn’t a bad coach and could have had better success if he wasn’t hamstrung. Not a record breaker by any means, but the man did fall on the grenade (or more appropriately, allowed his career to fall on the grenade) for the good of his alma mater.

    I agree, Wufpacker. I will always admire Les for that.

  6. eas 03/27/2011 at 11:59 PM #

    Maybe 20 years of stop gaps and the next big thing is a better way to put it. I’m all in for a young coach who can build a program but would never turn down a solid older coach who can produce. Especially if it means a step towards a lot better program in 5 years (or less).

  7. eas 03/28/2011 at 12:03 AM #

    Absolutely agree with the Robinson comment. He did a really good job with what he had and took the job for reasons other than his own resume building. Good job Les

  8. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 12:07 AM #

    Robinson was hired because we had Larry Monteith and Todd Turner. We had an administration the was scared sh*tless of the n&o and success. We were scared of the perception of trying to win. They were ok being lovable losers. State fans were sentenced to twenty years of breathtaking failure and indignity. Dr. Woodson found out when he got here that this is a great university. You just that repair its image. One way to do it is through athletic success. He has balls and we will be better for it.

  9. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 12:08 AM #

    eas, are you dr. larry monteith? how are you buddy?;-))

  10. eas 03/28/2011 at 12:21 AM #

    Man that is cold. Don’t disagree with you on them not having the balls to do anything different. Robinson stepped in and did what he could though when we were out of options (again, insert no balls comment here).

    And he$$ no I am not Dr. Monteith or anyone remotely associated with that crew.

  11. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 12:30 AM #

    You know I don’t mean no malice eas;-)). We did have options then as we did have options five years ago. When we hire Robinson, a young offshoot from Providence by the name of Rick Barnes was available. I still remember it clearly. There were many other young coaches that are now “name” coaches that were available. We took the easy way out as we did five years ago with Jed, Monteith The Second (Oblinger). Five years ago, there were Sean Miller, Anthony Grant, Gregg Marshall, etc. Any of those guys could have made us very competitive. Instead, we got Lowe, who managed to take us back to the end of Robinson and the beginning of Herb years.

  12. ringo 03/28/2011 at 12:39 AM #

    If we can’t get an A lister top 3 guy, I hope we can land one of the second tier mid major recent final four participants. If its none of these, I will be disappointed.

  13. Wufpacker 03/28/2011 at 12:40 AM #

    That is true. Monteith et al called the hire and they hired the perfect man.

    But don’t be tricked into thinking Les was the perfect hire for them because he agreed with them.

  14. eas 03/28/2011 at 12:45 AM #

    No malice taken quypack93, I laughed. However, I did want to clear the air from any association 🙂

    I sure hope we land an A lister ringo. The list is short though and very expensive. This week will be full of information and I agree with SFN that we should have a coach by the end of the week. Especially if there is any truth to someone being on campus today.

  15. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 12:53 AM #

    Robinson was a perfect lovable loser. I liked him personally. It was not his false that he was hired. He fitted perfectly with the Monteith regime. Winning is not important as long as we didn’t step on anyone’s toes. A good coach will always find work. All the coaches that left State, out side of Sheridan, did not find success any where. That proved to you that it is not because it’s hard to win here, it’s because we have hired terrible coaches (Ocain, Robinson, Amato, Sendek, Lowe…). Those guys just win anywhere. If I give you the list of our non-revenue sports coaches, it will make you vomit even harder. Nothing against any of those personally, State had been run by some worthless administrators.

  16. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 1:00 AM #

    Roy and K are so great Herb finished next to last in the PAC-10.

  17. Astral Rain 03/28/2011 at 1:01 AM #

    I think Shaka Smart put himself on the A-list today. A Final Four, no matter how fluky, gives you instant cred.

    If those big names don’t agree to sign soon, I’d go after him. It’s a risk, but I think his floor would be Sendek.

  18. Wufpacker 03/28/2011 at 1:54 AM #

    guypack93, I don’t think you need to provide a list of our coaches for most of the good folks here. And while your general point stands, Robinson never coached anywhere after coaching at State.

  19. mwcric 03/28/2011 at 2:07 AM #

    Smart has as many Final Fours in two years as Barnes has in 24, all but one of which were spent in the Big East, ACC and Big 12.

    “20 years of rolling snake eyes on the next big thing is a game I have grown tired of.”

    Again, this is simply not true. Les Robinson and Sidney Lowe were desperation hires borne of totally crappy situations. They were not mid-major success stories that tons of big schools were courting. Sendek is the only coach since Press Maravich that fits the “rolling snake eyes” description, and I still say he left the program in good enough shape five years ago that a halfway decent college coach from a mid-major conference could’ve continued to build upward. Instead we got an NBA castoff with zero college coaching experience.

    If you want to talk about rolling snake eyes, the pattern is in hiring alums, not whiffing on mid-majors. Robinson, Amato, Lowe, etc.

    I don’t see this strategy of letting everyone else in the country take chances are mid-major hires and us poaching them from the big boys when we’re ready for a coach being very sustainable or sensible.

  20. Wufpacker 03/28/2011 at 2:27 AM #

    FWIW, I never meant to say that Les was highly sought after when we hired him. Only that he was a better coach than that for which he currently receives credit.

  21. dsgill87 03/28/2011 at 3:57 AM #

    Les is a good man and a very good coach, but he wasn’t qualified or the coach we needed at NC State.

    At the time Sendek was a solid hire that did not work out as well as hoped. It has become relatively apparent that Sendek needed NCSU more than we needed his services, despite what the national media likes to propagate..

    Lowe, like Les.. he was in over his head for a major college head coaching position. He is a good guy and actually a good coach, but this was never the position where he could excel.

    I find it hard to believe that despite our “faded glory,” we have only had 3 coaches since Coach Valvano. It is time to put up or shut up and even if we go to the “B” list, i hope we don’t pull a tenn. volunteer

  22. YogiNC 03/28/2011 at 8:26 AM #

    Smart is the real deal. I was convinced his run was over when they came up against Kansas but he smoked them. You can say what you want about him taking “other coach’s” guys to get there BUT the fact is HE got there. He is damned smart and one heck of a coach. Remember, the guy who just got his 900th win was VERY unproven, and look where that program is today. I said it first and I stand by it, the guy is going to be a star, the question is “is he gonna be OUR star?” B list? He should be at the top of our A list. Barnes hasn’t won anything of consequence. Of all the names out there Miller is the only one worthy to be above Smart’s and that’s only because he does have a bit more of a track record. Smart could be a home run, give him some really good clauses in his contract for performance and watch the wins pile up.

  23. ADVENTUROO 03/28/2011 at 9:10 AM #

    Since everyone is offering their opinions on our past three coaches….I shall include mine….with a slightly expanded view.

    Case and Sloan were on probation for various indiscretions….Source – Tim Peeler’s 100 Years of NCSU BB. This is a GREAT read, perhaps some should do it.

    Valvano lost sight of his objective and found that you have to recruit talent over brains to “keep the dream” alive. Heck, he was the guy that designed the “dream room” where Wally Ausley would do a play by play with the last shot in the NCAA championship game and then use the recruit’s name. That room, according to many that saw it, would give you goosebumps. I also think that the NCAA shut it down….it was technologically AHEAD of it’s time and definitely a psychological weapon.

    St. Monteith (as the Faculty has dubbed him) was sent to slay the evil dragon….or perhaps he was from the “dark side” of the force….not up to Darth Vader’s status, but you get the picture. SO, he hired Todd and they hired Les. Les had a pretty good record in the minors, but was not ready for prime time. He was a heck of a gentleman. His problem was that the kids he recruited were students first and were the epitimy of Student Athletes. Don’t get me wrong, there are a LOT of SMART athletes. Gminski comes to mind….I remember reading about his “recruiting”. He was an all star HS BB player that decided he wanted to go to Duke to get a good education. He actually wrote Coack K a letter and said he was interested. He included his stats, and oh, BTW, he scored a 1600 on the SAT. It might not have been THAT good, but it was lke a gift from the gods for Mikey K. Roman Gabriel was a EE at NCSU with a high average. Others come to mind.

    But GENERALLY, if they can graduate and are articulate, then they are considered as PRIME.

    So, Les recruited what St. Monteith dictated. He also was operating under the “RAISED BAR” academic (self imposed to NCSU by your ADMINISTRATION) standards.

    Next, they brought in Herb. Now, when you graduate Suma Cum Laude in a technical (Industrial Management….equivalent to the old NCSU Engineering Operations) ciriculum and have a 3.85 or maybe a 3.95….I forget which, YOU tend to look for technically minded smart folks. Not too many of them can dribble the round ball. And when you take a jump shot, you look at the physics of it, not what just comes naturally.

    Sidney was also like a reformed alcoholic. He realized the value of a degree and really sought to bring in Athletes that could be Students. Unfortunately, we don’t have those tough ciriculms like our sister schools. If you were at the ACC Tournament…I watched every game, you saw the “Major” flashed up on the LED banner when they shot a free throw. The only ciriculm that I did not see was Basket Weaving and Advancec Clay Pot Molding.

    SO, some of the institutions are perhaps more “athlete” friendly than our technical alma mater.

    This debate will rage on until the Yow Presser….wonder if she will have a red blazer ready for the new coach….as supposedly Willis Casey and Charlie Bryant had for Jimmy V?

  24. ringo 03/28/2011 at 10:22 AM #

    roo,

    Gman was at Duke years before K was. They got to the finals and lost to Kentucky. You are talking out of your end parts.

  25. quypack93 03/28/2011 at 10:28 AM #

    The notion that every kid Les recruited was more student and less athlete than any other school in the ACC is ludicrous. And who say if you recruited better student athletes, you have to be sentenced to the play-in game every year? So every other ACC schools was running a basketball mill at the time? Look, we are the only school that promoted a failed basketball coach into the AD position. It’s like you are VP of Windows Software at Microsoft and run the division into the ground. The board called you in:

    The Board: We need to talk to you.

    You: Well, that is what I thought.

    The Board: Things are not working out. The division is performing poorly. As a matter of fact, it is performing so bad it breathtaking to think how bad it is.

    You: I tried, but it is not working out. Should I start cleaning my office then?

    The Board: Yes…

    You: I understand…

    The Board: … and you are moving down to the bigger office with a view. You, my boy, are going to be our next C E O. You are going to be in charge of the whole thing. BAM! BAM!… in charge of the whole joint, son. You are a loser, but a lovable one. See, we don’t care about performance around here. You are nice and people love you. We love you, our competitors love you even more…

    You: But….

    The Board: But… What? Let’s do lunch. Italian?

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