Gold and Ovies Interview Julius Hodge and defend NC State; Sendek should want his job back at NC State

Adam Gold and Joe Ovies had a great interview with Julius Hodge yesterday afternoon.

Link to interview with Julius Hodge.

Also, please read this great column from Adam Gold on NC State’s basketball team.

I have to give Gold and Ovies credit for defending NC State. A moron called in yesterday and made the same, tired, baseless argument that you can only be so good with Duke and UNC so close and that we should want to hire Herb Sendek back. Gold and Ovies called him out immediately and essentially cut him off. If that statement had any truth to it, then Sendek would have immediately started winning at a higher rate at ASU because it is a much, much further distance from Chapel Hill and Durham.

As poorly as Sidney Lowe has done at NC State in his 4.5 seasons, this is how Lowe’s and Sendek’s records compare:

Sendek – 85-62
Lowe – 82-67
Sendek’s last 5 seasons at NC State – 105-58

In Sendek’s 5th season, the Sun Devils are 9-7 and 1-3 in the Pac 10. Sidney has NC State at 11-5 and 1-1 in the ACC. It is likely that Lowe could actually have a higher overall winning percentage by the end of the season, his best single season overall and the ACC in his 5th season which would mean the program is on an upward trend while ASU is spiraling backwards since Sendek’s 3nd season, and still Sidney could be fired as the head coach at NC State. While Sendek would likely be safe for at least another year because because his real market value in the world of college basketball was judged to fit a program with lower expectations than NC State.

If being close to UNC and Duke is such an enormous obstacle for an NC State head coach, then:

a. why are Sendek’s results worse than those he achieved at NC State in his last 5 seasons now that he has escaped the mean, evil NC State fans and moved to Arizona?

and:

b. why is Sendek winning at a similar rate to Sidney Lowe who some think is one of the worst coaches in the history of NC State, maybe one of the worst coaches in the history of the ACC, and who coaches so close to Duke and UNC which to some is the most difficult obstacle in all of sports? They both had massive rebuilding jobs.

The last 4.5 years show exactly how the NC State head coaching position is actually an outstanding opportunity. The records of Sendek and Lowe show that a large part of Sendek’s success was actually the resources, fan support, financial support, facilities, location, school, conference affiliation, etc…that were at Sendek’s disposal during his 10 years in Raleigh. Sendek is the same coach today that he was 5 years ago at NC State. In fact, he is likely a better coach today because he has more experience and his reputation has grown. So what changed when he went to Arizona St. especially when you consider he is no longer facing Duke and UNC and coaching in the same area code as Coach K and Roy?

He is at Arizona St. He is working from a different platform with fewer resources. That is all that has changed.

I think Sendek is a significantly better college basketball coach than Sidney Lowe. It isn’t even close. However, NC State’s resources to win have boosted Lowe’s results to the same level as a much better basketball coach at a lessor program like Sendek and ASU respectively. If we get any ASU readers, then please don’t take this as a criticism of ASU. The comments on their message boards make similar points about the lack of upside in their basketball program. While Sendek is a solid basketball coach, he didn’t raise the ceiling of NC State basketball and eventually became unpopular because he never came close to the ceilings established by 3 different coaches in 4 different decades. Sendek has a chance to hit the ceilings of the ASU program, however it is debatable at this point whether he is the type of coach who can actually take ASU to a higher level. Isn’t that the goal afterall?

All of this proves that location relative to other top basketball programs has very little to do with your actual success as a basketball coach. If it is a factor at all(I would argue that it isn’t), then it is at best very minor. NC State’s location in one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country and one of the highest rated places to live in the entire country is actually a huge asset to an NC State basketball coach. Essentially, NC State’s location was one of the reasons Sendek made the now famous 5 straight NCAA tournaments at NC State. He had Raleigh to sell when convincing the players that made up those teams to come to NC State. Not to mention that Raleigh is drivable from almost any area on the east coast that an NC State coach would recruit. Sendek now has those factors working against him at ASU. Not that ASU isn’t in a great area, but the distances to potential recruiting territories are great.

Sendek was largely hired by ASU based on his accomplishment of making 5 straight NCAA tournaments at NC State. It makes sense from ASU’s perspective. Hire a guy who has accomplished something recently that is outstanding relative to your own recent results and hope that translates into the new coach accomplishing similar results with your program permanently raising your ceiling. The miscalculation on ASU’s part was that while 5 straight NCAAs sounds good for a program like ASU, it was in fact not that significant of an accomplishment relative to the history of the program that Sendek coached.

Hiring Sendek would have been similar to NC State hiring Steve Lavin formerly of UCLA and now at St. Johns. Lavin had a very good record relative to former NC State coaches, but it actually represented underachieving for a coach at UCLA which is one of the top jobs in all of college basketball. So why would NC State want to hire a coach who underachieved in his former job? What are the chances that a previous underachieving coach is going to overachieve and permanently raise the ceiling of your program? The only reason to have hired Lavin is because he would have likely done better than Sidney Lowe. The same questions can now be asked about the strategy of Arizona St. hiring Herb Sendek.

None of this commentary is intended as a knock on Sendek. However, I wonder if eventually someone in the media will finally make the point that just maybe Sendek should want his job back at NC State. Or at least at a program with the resources to win that exist at NC State. He is certainly available and there are certainly better jobs with bigger opportunities in better locations. Yet, nobody has even attempted to pluck Sendek from the desert.

10-11 Basketball General

64 Responses to Gold and Ovies Interview Julius Hodge and defend NC State; Sendek should want his job back at NC State

  1. Mike 01/13/2011 at 10:50 AM #

    Excellent analysis DU. Thanks for sharing what many (still) refuse to see and hear.

  2. burnbarn 01/13/2011 at 11:02 AM #

    I’m trying to remember the analogy Gold used when he cut the caller off. It was excellent. Does anyone remember?

  3. graywolf 01/13/2011 at 11:03 AM #

    Herb has been in the desert for 5 years now and if you read their boards its like looking at NC State boards after year 5 under Herb. Interesting how that same things are being talked about now that we discussed years ago.

    Herb moved on (we did not fire him), we got Sid under duress (Fowler) and now it seems that it is time to look at the future of mens basketball at State.

    Wish Sid the best in the future but it seems time to look elsewhere. I’m sure that Yow is making calls as we speak. Go Pack.

  4. coach13 01/13/2011 at 11:18 AM #

    In all seriousness, Greywolf, I hope you are right. I hope Yow has already got the ball rolling on this. I hope she is making a list, finding out the absolute most we will pay, etc., and the process will be quick and efficient in the end.

  5. bradleyb123 01/13/2011 at 11:20 AM #

    I’ve been defending Sidney, but I don’t defend what he’s done. I only defend his right to finish the season with his first great recruiting class. I don’t think it would be wise to fire him midseason, so I support him through early March at a minimum. If we finish strong, he’ll continue to have my support. If not, he can pack his bags as far as I’m concerned.

    I do think it would be prudent for Debs to have her feelers out there, for if and when the time comes to replace him. One thing I am confident about is that she will pull the plug on the Sidney experiment if and when the time is right. And there’s nothing wrong with making a few calls right now, so when that day arrives (and I think it probably will), she’ll be ready with a good new hire for us.

  6. Baccapacker 01/13/2011 at 11:37 AM #

    I love Hodge, always have. Its nice to hear his thoughts on this debacle. If you really listen to the interview and read between the lines it seems as though what is going on is exactly what a lot of us have been thinking. Sid is a good basketball mind and probably a fun coach to play for, but the talk about guys being late to practice and disciplining them and taking their minutes and making them work hard and earn their p.t. only makes me believe even more that Lowe just doesn’t know how to handle these kids to get the most out of them. It just seems like he isn’t tough enough on them to get the message across. You also heard Hodge talking about someone getting in these guys faces and basically telling them what’s up and apparently that isn’t happening. Alas, there’s nothing any of us can do about it, it just really sucks for everyone who bleeds red and white that one of the most talented teams we’ve had assembled in a while is going to waste. Seems like a lot of these problems could be fixed pretty easy with some strong, stern leadership.

  7. Wolfy__79 01/13/2011 at 11:46 AM #

    pulling from the article and i’d like to add a tad..

    “the resources, fan support, financial support, facilities, location, school, conference affiliation, etcรขโ‚ฌยฆ”

    i firmly believe that NC STATE is most passionate fan base in conference and one of the best in the country. And i totally agree with statements like this. only in select situations will you find tolerable success with a princeton offense. there is such a huge disconnect with this style of play versus how the game has evolved. princeton is merely a component of successful programs f.e. duke.

    i don’t think the years 1-5 for each coach is a fluke. duke/unc and the rest of the acc can be a touch field of competition or a great platform for championship caliber basketball. (insert great coach here). even average coaches can find a certain level of success in Raleigh. When we have our coach, we will win championships!

  8. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 11:53 AM #

    I made a lot of additions. It might be worth another quick scan.

    I have been thinking of the Sendek debate from this perspective for a few weeks. Everyone acts like we rode his coattails to 5 straight NCAAs. I think what the last 4.5 years has shown it is the exact opposite happened. We propped him up to be able to achieve those 5 straight NCAAs. Our program was as responsible and likely more responsible for those 5 straight NCAAs than Sendek. If it wasn’t attributable to the resources at NC State, then IMO you would see much better results at ASU and certainly not a downward trajectory like you are seeing in year 5. If the program you coach doesn’t matter, then Sendek should have several NCAA tournament appearances and certainly not one of his worst teams in year 5. Plus, he is no longer in the shadow of K and Roy. He should be hitting it out of the park at ASU based on the comments from members in the media and our rival fans.

    In terms of market value, his value was the ASU coaching job. A lessor program with less history and upside. Essentially, Herb was very fortunate to have the job he had despite being close to Duke and UNC. Herb can’t get jobs with the resources to win like NC State. So it certainly wouldn’t make sense for NC State to rehire a coach that has a proven lower market value than our program(proven by his move to ASU). Though he should be begging to come back to NC State because the same coach with the same talents(maybe more because of experience) is having worse results.

    When will someone in the media look at this story from this angle?

    It would be an interesting topic of discussion for a local radio talk show…

  9. Wolfy__79 01/13/2011 at 12:06 PM #

    i love this interview with Hodge and wish i had listened to it sooner!

  10. mrpenny 01/13/2011 at 12:08 PM #

    Excellent article – great angle. I’m a long-time lurker, and had to register just to say thanks for this one.

  11. Wolfy__79 01/13/2011 at 12:19 PM #

    Sendek definetly should want/dream to have his job back.. incorporated with that dream he should think of not running that bogas offense. he didn’t figure that out when hole roy came in and we parted ways, simple as that to me!!

    its great for hodge to hold the players accountable and directly highlighting maybe its not all on the coach. as a passionate fan, i still see that “coach Sid” isn’t getting what he needs from his players. what’s missing for me is the passion and fire. everything has, and continues to be said what it will take for this program to go in the right direction, MOTIVATION.

    Julius Hodge would be a great addition to someone’s coaching staff, eh hem. to many pushovers in suits on the bench. we’ve got Sidney as the mastermind but don’t have disciplinarian. we would hope that the head coach would be all in one but it doesn’t appear to in the cards. best case scenario for Sidney, win baby win and earn your keep… and get rid of your assistants ๐Ÿ™‚

  12. Wolfy__79 01/13/2011 at 12:22 PM #

    ^also agree with us having top notch talent in the league and ncaa’s!
    someone just needs to inspire them!!

  13. bradleyb123 01/13/2011 at 12:28 PM #

    Whenever I have a debate about Herb and Sidney with someone, they generally assume that we should have kept Herb because Sidney is so bad. Even if you accept that premise, that Sidney is a horrible, horrible coach, and MUCH worse than Herb, that still has no bearing on the decision to let Herb walk.

    Letting Herb walk was the right thing to do. Regardless of what happens with Sidney.

    We may go through five more coaches before we find a great one. But Herb certainly wasn’t. Letting him go was the right decision, and that stands on its own merits. We want better than what we had with Herb. Just because Sidney isn’t giving it to us doesn’t mean it was wrong to pursue something better.

    I admit, part of me has wanted Sidney to outperform Herb just so we can shut the Herb-lovers up. Then it dawned on me that we can still do that. We don’t need to wait for a new coach to outperform Herb.

    But at season’s end, Sidney should have more wins than Herb had at the end of his fifth season at State. And he’ll have the same number of NCAA invitations (but possibly one more) than Herb. So if someone still feels the need to prove that Sid has done better than Herb, they should be able to have a win total that will do that. (But again, we don’t need to.)

  14. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 12:30 PM #

    Bradleyb123: Additionally, Herb’s results at ASU prove that opinion. Yet, nobody is talking about Herb’s actual results at ASU…

  15. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 12:30 PM #

    mrpenny: Thanks! Go get involved in our message boards now. ๐Ÿ™‚

  16. Wolfy__79 01/13/2011 at 12:32 PM #

    sorry to keep revisiting but i can’t make the connection why Sidney Lowe can’t make the connection ๐Ÿ™‚ that he needs to be more assertive? that’s all it would take to never have this conversation again periodoso exclamante! i just really cannot believe this a case of unc-ch and matt donuts?!!

  17. Wolfy__79 01/13/2011 at 12:39 PM #

    and herb inherited a great player at asu but since then his assistant coach mentality has shown through. NC STATE is an elite coaching job and should be treated as such. I’m certain AD Yow has begun the process and i feel she knows who we are… no check will be too big for the right coach.

  18. JSRy2k 01/13/2011 at 12:49 PM #

    Don’t know if you realize, but even the always-friendly folks over at PackPride took a bite out of Lowe after the BC game. Austin Johnson criticized the lack of consistent effort, poor defense and poor rebounding, none of which has changed in five years:
    http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/2/1038970.html
    Because they typically only have nice things to say about NCSU, this article pops out!

  19. Lock 01/13/2011 at 1:11 PM #

    Fifty years from now, will we still be finding excuses to talk about Sendek? Why the constant justification to have fired him? Methinks thou doth protest too much.

    Yes, I liked the guy and hate how “we” treated him to run him off. That said, he needed to go (oh god did I admit that wow). Too divisive to the fan base, and yes, a horrible tendency to play AT the level of the opponent, no matter how bad or good. I liked the ‘bogas’ (huh?) offense; but then someone who enjoys watching soccer can handle a slower, more methodical game.

    But stop lying to yourself about how he wasn’t fired, and stop feeling the need to justify his firing. What happened, happened, and though I hate it had to, it had to. Now, let Lowe stand on his own merits (or lack thereof, whichever the case may be). His teams have yet to show the character we’ve been looking for since the Jimmy V days, and regardless to how he compares to a previous coach, ANY previous coach, if Lowe can’t show good progress by the end of this year, it’s time to move on again.

  20. bigwolfpacker 01/13/2011 at 1:13 PM #

    Gold, for once in his life, hit the nail on the head. Play some f—ing Defense guys!

  21. Daily Update 01/13/2011 at 1:18 PM #

    Lock: This entry simply points out that the typical media spin about Sendek doesn’t hold much water based on his results at ASU after 4.5 years. All season, we have people mention Sendek’s 5 straight NCAAs, but nobody mentions Sendek’s struggles in the desert.

    It is a complete fresh take on the entire topic…that Sendek’s success was largely due to where he coached. Just as now his lack of success is largely due to where he coaches and that Sendek’s market value is measured by where he coaches.

    Not to mention the constant “State can’t win because they are close to UNC and Duke” bullshit that is constantly spewed by rival fans and media pundits around the nation. Sendek’s results at ASU disprove that theory entirely just like his results at NC State prove that NC State has plenty of resources for even a low-major coach like Sendek(statement based on where he coaches now) to succeed and raise his status in the game of college basketball.

  22. 70wolf 01/13/2011 at 1:29 PM #

    Let me start by saying that I am certinly not defending Sidneys record at NCSU or his coaching capability. His record stands for itself and 4+ years ago when I was pushing for Herbie to be booted out on his Arse I clearly stated “..and the next coach, who ever he is, if he cannot do much better than Herb in his firsst 5 years should also be booted out”

    That being said, Adam Golds head is still so far up Herbs arse (after 4+ years) that he can taste what Herb had for dinner. His cherry picking incompetence is unbelievable.

    1) Lets look at Conference records since we know that OOC records from the Herb decade are significantly distorted due to the chumps we played. Herbs 4 year ACC record was 21-43, his frst 5 years was 26-54. This compares within 1 with Sidneys 4 year record of 20-44. Basically they both have sucked.

    Next is Golds contention about Sendek not doing as well at AZ State for all his imaginary reasons. Again look at his 4 year conference record since he left here. It is 33-38 which still sucks but is better than it was at NC State. Basically where ever he goes Herb will be a sub .500 coach which is a “loooooser” – period.

    Adam – this is why none of the “big boys” have attempted to “pluck Sendek from the desert” Your insinuation that they should be is Fowler-esque !

    I am in agreement with those saying “just shut up and let Yow do her thing”

  23. Lunatic Fringe 01/13/2011 at 1:39 PM #

    Daily – I love the perspective of this post.

    Personally, I have always thought that Sendek was a bit overrated as a recruiter by the “media” so I did some research based on Rivals/Scouts recruiting ranks. Please understand that this is not a perfect science and I eliminated 2006, the transition year, to be fair. The databases also handle late signees/transfers a little different so I just used what both had in common.

    NCSU
    Sendek – Avg Rank (2002-2005) – 3.7
    Lowe – Avg Rank (2007-2010) – 3.7

    ASU
    Evans – Avg Rank (2002-2005) – 3.0
    Sendek – Avg Rank (2007-2010) – 3.2

    I will state this again – the best two players recruited by Sendek in his time at ASU (Pendergraph was there already) were Glasser & Harden who both followed their HS coach to ASU.

  24. STLPack01 01/13/2011 at 1:46 PM #

    Rick. Barnes.

  25. PackMan97 01/13/2011 at 2:07 PM #

    I’d love to see Da Jules in an assistant role at State. His passion and drive are second to none.

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