More Amazing Email!

UNC Scandal28

Given that UNC has still not released all of the email and other records they are required to, it is surprising how much has been found so far.  I’m sure more will come out as time goes by, but aside from the UNC professor’s email we talked about last night, there are some additional emails that I think are worthy of discussion.  How/why the media is not all over this stuff is beyond me.  

 In this email exchange involving News and Observer staff writer Andy Curliss and Regina Stabile, a UNC lawyer, UNC says that they can’t get the texts from Verizon without a court order, and they can’t get a court order because they are not in litigation with Blake.  These are texts made FROM A UNC PHONE, and they claim they can’t get them.  Riiiiight.  Gee, I wonder why they are working so hard to keep Blake’s text messages from the public?  Certainly all of his recruiting was above board, right?  Here are some excerpts from this email exchange:

 On 9/14/2010 5:56 PM, Stabile, Regina wrote:  

Dear Andy -  

 I write in response to your request below seeking clarification about my written statement “the University does not have any documentation regarding text messages”. 

The University neither has copies of nor access to any text records. When we contacted the appropriate staff at Verizon we learned that they will only gather and/or release text records if presented with a valid subpoena or court order.

Sincerely, Regina   

 When pressed on it by Tysiac, she replies:

 Ken,   

The University and John Blake are not involved in litigation. There’s no legal basis to subpoena the text message records from Verizon. 

I don’t know public records law, but I am willing to bet that if the information in the texts helped UNC, UNC would have already released the texts at a huge press conference with the texts themselves each individully reprinted on a billboard-sized sign, accompanied by trumpet fanfare, dancing midgets, and fire jugglers.  Given UNC’s actions, however, I am willing to bet that the information on he texts is not helpful to UNC.  Just a guess.

  

Moving on, in this little email deal here, we see that Erskine Bowles (who is president of the UNC system) obviously is working damage control and calling UNC-CH “we.”  This is exactly how the president of the UNC system acted in 1989-90 regarding NC State’s problems, right?  I think that’s exactly how it went down.   

 

Finally, for now, here is an email exchange between John Drescher of the News and Observer and Holden Thorp from last October.  In it, we learn several interesting things.  The whole thing is worth reading.  I will just focus on two points I find interesting.   First, they are apparently 200 pages of Blake’s emails that still have not been released (to my knowledge anyway), even though Thorp says they would be given to the N & O by the end of the week.  Amazingly, these two hundred pages cover just two weeks.  (!)

 3. Correspondence of Butch Davis and John Blake. 

 > We continue to work hard on this aspect of the N&O’s request. As you

> know, producing email records is one of the most time-consuming

> aspects of public records work, since each message has to be reviewed

> for protected student and personnel information. I understand that we

> should be able to provide about 200 pages of John Blake’s email by the

> end of the week; this represents only ten days worth of his email

> records.

I will leave you today with this passage, where we see that UNC is defining football players’ parking tickets as “educational records” to shield their release.  Parking tickets, I assume, would have the make and model of the players’ cars on them.  Could this be why UNC is fighting their release?

7. Parking tickets. 

 > We do not agree with the legal analysis of Amanda Martin with

> respect to parking tickets. Pat Crawford and Joanna Carey

> Cleveland discussed the University’s position on this issue with Ms.

> Martin several weeks ago and explained that, because of the way we

> issue and maintain parking tickets, we believe they qualify as 

> education records…    
 

 
 
 

 

UNC Scandal

28 Responses to More Amazing Email!

  1. tjfoose1 12/18/2010 at 6:53 PM #

    To paraphrase a great philosopher with some experience with corrupt football programs,

    Crooked is as crooked does.

  2. choppack1 12/18/2010 at 7:02 PM #

    I posted this on the forums, but in this e-mail chain, Holden makes a point of telling Erksine that the originator of the critical e-mail didn’t go to UNC-CH

    This critical statement came from an e-mail from Holden Thorpe when the writer of the original e-mail expressed concern to Hannah Gage.

    I’d love for the N&O to pick up this one and run with it. This statement is very telling when it comes to HT’s POV. It’s basically – we just have to satisfy “our” alumni w/ this investigation. Clearly, it’s an us vs. them mentality. While he has a point – I don’t doubt for a second that this writer isn’t a fan of UNC, clearly he IS a taxpayer AND he never said he went to UNC-Ch.

    Waiting for outrage from the local media since Holden’s statement does not address the issue of the e-mail whatsover. Rather, basically says, if you didn’t graduate from UNC-Ch, we don’t give a damn what you think:

    http://www.wralsportsfan.com/asset/colleges/unc/2010/12/17/8793564/091010_Concern

  3. highstick 12/18/2010 at 7:45 PM #

    Holden Thorpe has to go!

    Along with Dickey, Butchy, and Ralphy! Who the heck is Ralphy?

    Many moons ago, I had a new partner shipped in from north of the border, meaning North Carolina..After a few weeks he asked me if everyone in town had a “Y” on the end of their names. I’d never really thought about it, but darned if he didn’t have a point. Particularly those who were the “inbreds” and held on so dearly to their heritage(which was tainted)..

    Funny thing is…the new partner was a UNC grad!!!! I’m gonna have to ask him how he likes all of those “Y’s” on the end of his fellow TarHoles!!

  4. PackMan97 12/18/2010 at 7:45 PM #

    What’s the deal with the Parking tickets? Would could be incriminating about them?

  5. TAEdisonHokie 12/18/2010 at 8:11 PM #

    PackMan97:

    Parking tickets state the license plate number on the ticket itself. That number can be used to discover the make and model of the vehicle that received the ticket. That info, in turn, can be used to discover how the player got the vehicle (bought, gift, etc.).

    If the acquisition of the vehicle can’t be explained to the satisfaction of NCAA guidelines, then we have another avenue of investigation in Chapel Hill.

  6. tjfoose1 12/18/2010 at 8:12 PM #

    “What’s the deal with the Parking tickets? Would could be incriminating about them?”

    and to add to Hokie’s comment… More special treatment, aka “improper benefits”. The suspicion of some is that UNC football player parking tickets are often handled in the same manner as those of UN delegates in NYC.

    In the grand scope of things regarding this ‘review’, not all that bad, but is still another “improper benefit” and yet another arrow in the LOIC quiver.

  7. Old MacDonald 12/18/2010 at 8:23 PM #

    This might be worth watching…http://twitter.com/fbrumormill

  8. Trout 12/18/2010 at 9:00 PM #

    I love that SNL skit (picture above). UNC should hire Nathan Thurm!

  9. ADVENTUROO 12/18/2010 at 9:57 PM #

    I’m still having a little problem with Parking Ticket Gate. If an athlete got a parking ticket, HOW would you know it was him (or her)? If they paid it, do they have to identify themselves or do they charge it to the “student” account. If they just plunk down cash (from whatever source), then HOW does that get recorded? If they do NOT pay the ticket, then the owner of the car is “chased down” via DMV records, then how WOULD you know (or prove) that a student Athlete was driving the Lamborghini that got 200 tickets outside the football complex?

    Maybe someone with more investigative experience can help me understand how you could link an athlete to a parking ticket, unless the vehicle was “registered” to the athlete. Look how long Mikey Easley’s son drove the SUV and no one ever picked it up, except some reporter that finally followed him around and staked out his house….

    Thanks for any comments.

  10. backnine 12/18/2010 at 10:03 PM #

    Old MacDonald – So what sorts of rumors are bouncing around tweeter tonight regarding Butch?

  11. SaccoV 12/18/2010 at 10:10 PM #

    Trout’s right. Nathan Thurm should be hired by Bowles, especially when Leslie Stahl and Steve Croft start snooping around. Also, great find on the Tommy Flanagan photo (of the PLO Pathological Liars O-nonymous!!).

  12. Old MacDonald 12/18/2010 at 10:19 PM #

    From that Twitter account I pasted above:

    [quote]

    There are a ton of Butch Davis rumor flying around tonight, but nothing we can confirm. We’ll keep you posted if anything develops.
    about 3 hours ago via web

    [/quote]

  13. mwcric 12/18/2010 at 11:08 PM #

    Ahhhh, crap. It sucks I have to do this but…unfortunately, I’m pretty sure UNC’s attorney is right on this one. I’ve personally been involved in an instance where I was the poster child for the cliche “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned,” and as a result I had any anonymous phone calls that showed up on my caller ID traced, and tried to retrieve text messages from my cell phone that had aged off. For the land-line, the phone company would make the trace – you just had to key in a command on your keypad, similar to *69. However, the only way they would tell me who the calls traced to would be if the records were subpoenaed in court. Ditto the text messages from the cell carrier. However, one would think that, yes, if UNC felt the texts would absolve a lot of accusations they’d find some bogus reason to litigate Blake to get the records. I’m sure they could file some bogus lawsuit or something (though that would open up another can of worms, as I’m sure they want to be careful not to piss Blake off…kind of like poking a sleeping bear I’d bet).

  14. StateFans 12/18/2010 at 11:23 PM #

    Carolina PAYS THE BILLS of those phones. The concept that they could not get records of the phones that they own and for which they pay the bills are beyond the scope of reality.

  15. mwcric 12/18/2010 at 11:42 PM #

    I hear you. I’m not trying to antagonize anyone. What you’re saying is true; however, I think the logic from the service providers is that they own the phone’s data. I’m sure UNC would/should have no problems whatsoever in seizing the phone in question and turning over what, if any, text messages are still on the phone itself. Once the texts are deleted or age off the phone, though, I think the phone companies decide that’s their data. I would also guess this is probably a safeguard put in place by the phone companies as well, so that they’re not spending endless man hours tracking down deleted texts from every account holder who wants them on a whim. I’m wondering, though, if the NCAA could subpoena the records in court via a lawsuit, or if the N&O could sue UNC for those records specifically, thereby engaging the university in a court action and forcing the subpoena of the records.
    I think you may be saying John Blake should have no protection from UNC from UNC getting those texts, and there I think you’d be right. I think the issue is with the service provider, not Blake. Just guesses though.

  16. cWOhLFrPAiCKs 12/19/2010 at 12:28 AM #

    The most intriguing part of those emails was this from the last one linked:

    “Many university staff and, most particularly, Regina Stabile, are volunteering nights and weekends – on a completely uncompensated basis – to gather and process the N&O’s records requests related to the NCAA review of our football program. Regina estimates that, since the review began, she has devoted more than 300 hours of taxpayer funded time to responding to public records requests from the N&O alone.”

    So you’re telling me that we (the Taxpayers) are paying someone for 300 hours of work and all they have provided is the information that puts them in the best light? How much are we paying Ms. Stabile per hour for this work? And if she has spent 300 TAX PAYER FUNDED hours on this, how many hours has she put in while volunteering nights and weekends? Is anyone watching these people as they sift through records requests and information that may or may not be damning to the University at which they are employed?

    Bottom line: I want my tax dollars going elsewhere.

  17. StateFans 12/19/2010 at 12:33 AM #

    Well, the good news is that Blake’s dealing COULD have broken dozens of federal and state laws ranging from multiple counts of tax evasion to agent violations. So, getting a subpoena may not be far away.

  18. StateFans 12/19/2010 at 12:36 AM #

    They wouldn’t be taking so many man hours if they would just release the records without scrubbing them and choosing what to not release.

    But…with so many University resources going into the project…it really does make its own case for an INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION doesn’t it?

  19. cWOhLFrPAiCKs 12/19/2010 at 12:44 AM #

    ^Excellent points. I guess a clarification of my previous point would be that IF we are going to pay someone to investigate this, wouldn’t it be MOST PRUDENT (and most cost effective) to make it an independent investigation? At this point, we’ll be looking at at least 3 (most likely, 4) separate investigations by the time we’re through:

    1) UNC
    2) NCAA
    3) SOS
    4) Independent Investigation?

  20. burnbarn 12/19/2010 at 1:34 AM #

    300 hours… that is 7.5 weeks of work and we have nothing.,… almost 2 months…. think about it.

  21. StateofthePack 12/19/2010 at 8:39 AM #

    The real problem with obtaining all the phone records is the fact that the NCAA doesn’t have subpoena power, so that would have to come from another source. Whether that’s the SOS’s office which has shown a complete unwillingness to delve into the matter or the N&0 forcing litigation on UNC to obtain the records. I’m not holding my breath waiting on that.

  22. wufpup76 12/19/2010 at 8:44 AM #

    “Regina *estimates* …”

    ^It’s her ‘estimate’ … a number pulled from thin air that conveniently helps Holden with his argument.

    Rest assured the number along with any other data point of contention can/will be changed to whatever suits their current argument/position.

    “So, an independent investigation could take the burden off of your staff and the tax payers?”

    – “Wait – I didn’t say that. We don’t feel that is needed. This is just an internal review, of which we have found nothing substantial as you can clearly see by the information released.”

    “But you haven’t released everything and you’re scrubbing and redacting a lot of data.”

    – “We are working very dilligently and efficiently on that process. This should all be wrapped up by Friday.”

    “But an independent review could handle all this and take the burden off of your staff and the tax payers plus clear up any misgivings or mis-perceptions that may be hanging over the program.”

    – “First of all, 300 hours was an estimate. It was actually a
    Fruedian slip. Regina actually meant to say *30* hours, not 300. We do have other duties, you know? Secondly, we only owe due dilligence to ourselves and our alumni base – not anyone else. There’s nothing to see here. Trust us. This will all be wrapped up by Friday.”

    “What about de-frauding an entire state and an athletics conference?”

    – “Chapel Hole is the Unx system. We are North Carolina. We are not de-frauding anyone. Like I keep saying, this is just a review. Chief Davis & co. and I, Dickie, Erskine, and all involved are working only with the best of intentions and with everyone’s best interests in mind – not just our own. Trust me, this will all be wrapped up by Friday. We have nothing to worry about from the NCAA or any law enforcement agency. Remember – this is all on John Blake. He’s the bad guy here. Not us. The current players, staff and all involved in this process including myself are most certainly victims.”

    ^Only in America … and I can totally see something like that happening in the not so distant future.

  23. PackCracker 12/19/2010 at 12:41 PM #

    Having some experience with having to subpoena cell phone records, I think UNC is right on this. If John Blake were doing something illegal in his texts, the person he is doing the illegal deal with has an expectation of privacy. So although the phone belongs to UNC, they can’t just release everything. And if they did and there was something criminal on there, you’d probably lose any chance of using it later in court. Subpoenas or court orders for cell phone records aren’t generally hard to get. However, in this case, you’d have to show you had a legitimate reason to request them (SoS?) and a judge to sign it. Don’t know if that would mean finding one who didn’t graduate from UNC’s law school or not.

  24. packbackr04 12/20/2010 at 10:24 AM #

    ^^^”Carolina PAYS THE BILLS of those phones. The concept that they could not get records of the phones that they own and for which they pay the bills are beyond the scope of reality”

    i totally agree with SFN. you dont need a judge to sign anything Packcracker. my buddy logs into VZW every week and reads his sons(who attends NCSU) texts. the # of texts, the time they were sent, etc. I dont think you need anything but a userID and password to see the information online.

  25. fullmoon1 12/20/2010 at 12:55 PM #

    With most cell carriers you can easily obtain the times, dates etc of texts and phone calls but for an actual transcript or content of the texts a court order is required. Someone close to me works in the court system and I have it on good authority. That being said I feel sure UNC is not going to go asking judges for permission to release damning evidence. Since at this point it is ont a criminal issue it is unlikely to happen.

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