0–4 Out of Conference puts Pack in a bind

In the previous four years of Sidney Lowe’s guidance, NC State’s Basketball team has proven an ability to win tough out of conference games whether played in the RBC Center or on the road –  Villanova, Cincinnati, Davidson, Seton Hall, Marquette, others.   Unfortunately…that didn’t happen for the Wolfpack this year and we now find ourselves in a competitive position that some could describe as ‘behind the 8-ball’ or even as bad as ‘up the creek’.

I recognize that the quality of your wins is a major factor in NCAA Tournament invitations and seeding.  But before the season began I carved away some specifics and took a  general look at the Wolfpack’s Basketball Schedule. 

With 30 games on the schedule before the Atlantic Coast Conference Tournament, the Wolfpack plays 14 out of conference games because of the three tournament games in the Charleston Classic.  “EYEBALLING” the schedule, one would think that 20 regular season wins would be a recipe for an almost guaranteed spot in the NCAA Tournament; with 18 pre-ACC Tournament wins serving to place the Wolfpack on the weaker side of the proverbial NCAA Tournament bubble.  Now that we know that the ACC is weaker than we had originally hoped, I don’t think 18 wins could get the Wolfpack into the big dance unless we performed decently well against our four decent out of conference opponents — Cue Captain Obvious – we didn’t.

As you can see from the table below

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Let’s presume for a moment that Wolfpack could (miraculously) achieve an 8-8 record against one of the more difficult ACC schedule’s and use this as a foundation of our an assumption set.  (Obviously, any conference performance that varies from this peg will play a role in impacting NC State’s NCAA Tournament resume.)   This would mean State would needed to generate a minimum of an 11-3 record against non-conference opponents to ‘be  the discussion’ in March.  A 12-2 record against the 7th toughest OOC schedule in America coupled with an 8-8 ACC record would have appeared to create safe haven and probable Top 8 NCAA Tournament regional seed for the Wolfpack.  That isn’t going to happen.

  • As you can see from the table, NC State has ten OOC match-ups that are ‘hold serve games’ and should result in wins.  Any stumbles against these foes, ala East Carolina a couple of years ago, could be deadly for the Wolfpack’s season (and could intellectually be argued to be deadly to Sidney Lowe’s coaching career as you extrapolate the potential impact of such a loss to the Wolfpack’s season).

  • This leaves four ‘swing games’ that will play a defining role in the Wolfpack’s quest for success this season.  We have highlighted those four games in the table above – Georgetown, @ Wisconsin, @ Syracuse, and Arizona.  As we now know…the Wolfpack whiffed on this and now are in a lot of trouble.

  • Just a single victory against that^ subset of opponents was an absolute must and would have gotten the Wolfpack to a minimum of 11-3 to be on squeeking onto the NCAA Tournament bubble with an 8-8 record in the ACC. 

As I see it today, a 9-7 record in the ACC is a necessary to fit ourselves squarely on the NCAA Tournament bubble.

As most everyone sees it today, based on our our uninspired play to this point of the season, that scenario is shaping up to be a pipedream.

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10-11 Basketball Sidney Lowe

108 Responses to 0–4 Out of Conference puts Pack in a bind

  1. highstick 12/20/2010 at 6:17 PM #

    We are not part of Tobacco Road anymore, just a “gassed plant bed”!

  2. vapackfan 12/20/2010 at 6:48 PM #

    I expect freshmen to struggle against top 20 programs. but I don’t expect State to struggle against the YSU’s of the world. SL now has the recruits he wanted, but doesn’t seem to have a good idea what to do with them. If this year is similar to last year, then a new coach is warranted. Lowe was not a top NBA head coach and doesn’t appear to be a top college head coach. Having said that, I would be interested to hear thoughts on the following names: Nate McMillin(sp ?), Sean Miller, Rick Barnes, Jay Wright, John Thompson, Jr.

  3. drgreenhouse 12/20/2010 at 6:55 PM #

    I’m absolutely sick off all mentions of HWSNBN for his tournament success. NC State made it to 4 out of 5 of those tournaments thanks to one main player – Julius Hodge. As most of the people on here know, it was also his shot that sent us to our first Sweet 16 since Fire & Ice. We would have been much better off to hire an experienced head coach with a strong winning record. I wish Coach Lowe and his staff well, but if this performance keeps up, they probably want to be updating their resumes and preparing their houses for market.

  4. bradleyb123 12/20/2010 at 7:08 PM #

    Considering that he recruited them, yes he was.

    So whenever a player has a bad shooting night, the coach is to blame? I guess Roy Williams was to blame when Harrison Barnes went 0-for-18 that one game?

  5. bradleyb123 12/20/2010 at 7:10 PM #

    Specifically, what does our record have to be for him to keep his job in your eyes?

    In my eyes, he needs to be .500 or better in the ACC. But probably better, because I also have a personal requirement that we make the NCAA tournament. We don’t necessarily have to win a game in the dance, but win enough to get there. So that may mean a 10-6 conference record.

    I’m not saying Sid should stay. I’m saying we should wait until the end of the season to decide.

  6. tuckerdorm1983 12/20/2010 at 8:09 PM #

    I saw the ghost of Brandon Costner running up and down the court last night. It looked like his last season with the pack. I will give a pass to Wood and Smith and Javi(threw a brick up and get no rim but at least it hit the backboard). What do the rest of them think? This is the pros where defense is nothing. Hell they should not cross half-court and just wait to get the ball back.

  7. rawolf 12/20/2010 at 8:35 PM #

    I think everyone here is right. He has had his time and he brought in his players. I say give to end of year. NO NCAA’S :NO SID : SORRY

  8. OldWuf 12/20/2010 at 8:42 PM #

    Play it out. As I’ve said since the end of last season, without at least one win in the NCAA tourney, then bye-bye Sid. I hate it. I love my man Sid, but we don’t at least make the tourney then its time to move on. At least Az should beat the crap out of Herbie’s team this year.

  9. bill.onthebeach 12/20/2010 at 8:45 PM #

    . . . none of this is real complicated. it’s just basketball. did anyone else see the faces of the Pack players on the bench starting from about the end of the third quarter? anyone who has ever played knows “coaching” is about 10% information and 90% motivation

    We can take losses. We should not suffer ‘defeat’.

  10. TheCOWDOG 12/20/2010 at 9:12 PM #

    “anyone who has ever played knows “coaching” is about 10% information and 90% motivation.”

    I pretty much disagree. My Old Man had a great quote for writers when they gushed about his championships and winning ways.

    He’d say, ” It’s not about what I know. They win because of what they know.”

  11. Pack Mentality 12/20/2010 at 9:19 PM #

    “So whenever a player has a bad shooting night, the coach is to blame?”

    In the context of a team that loses every game they play against a tough opponent…yes.

    The coach gets credit for the win-loss record of a team, “bad shooting nights” included.

  12. runwiththepack 12/20/2010 at 10:19 PM #

    Just wait till the season is over. What choice do you have anyway? ACC play hasn’t even begun.
    Hopefully, Tracy Smith will rejoin the team after New Year’s Day, and The Pack will have a good ACC record and play well when it really counts – MARCH!!!
    Too much jumping to conclusions going on here – with our all-ACC guy out, at that. Many of you are the same who were grumbling that TOB would wind up the season at 6-6. Now we have a nice bowl for the first time in HOW LONG? Thanks TOB! You’ll do better next year.
    Again, what good does it do to gnash your teeth now, with so much still ahead to look forward to?
    Boys, if you’re reading this, try not to let it get to you… you still have time to put together a good run and memorable season. After all, in ’83 it didn’t look so good until March, did it?. Please don’t transfer based on what some of these negatories are saying.

  13. JeremyH 12/20/2010 at 10:39 PM #

    I’m really curious about what Debby is doing about now.

  14. PoppaJohn 12/20/2010 at 11:00 PM #

    All this “let Sid finish the season and then we decide” is making me nuts!

    OF COURSE WE’LL WAIT TO THE END OF THE SEASON!! DUH!

    Who’s available today to be the coach? No one wants to get rid of him now, we’re just saying that we don’t see this getting any better and we hope DY’s thinking the same thing.
    Will the team be better in February than now? Of course they will!! Just about anyone gets better with that much practice, and we have talent. Unfortunately by then the season will be so far gone that all those highlight film dunks and behind the back passes will be wasted because no one will be watching.

    I predict a 21 win season, with victory 21 happening in some off the beaten track NIT area covered by ESPNU. And after that happens somebody will say, “hey, we’re improving.” And they will be shot!

  15. blpack 12/20/2010 at 11:18 PM #

    It looks like things are slowly winding down for Lowe. We should begin back channeling interest and not be afraid to ask anyone.

  16. tuckerdorm1983 12/21/2010 at 12:01 AM #

    after the game last night the following video describes me as a life long state fan

  17. russwuf 12/21/2010 at 12:08 AM #

    well, whether we make the big dance is really a nonissue at this point because of the way the team is playing or shall we say , NOT playing. In other words if we did happen to be lucky at this point in the game to struggle to the tourney…what..??? lose badly in the first round? So at this point, we just need to concentrate on playing some good hoops because we stink up the joint at the moment. I doubt I would even WANT to see this team play in the NIT given the lax and terrible play that is going on now. I know these guys mostly young….but good lord at least play with some intensity and dont be so lethargic with the ball.

  18. wolfpack4ever 12/21/2010 at 1:28 AM #

    As most everyone knows, an AD wants to win or lose with their hand picked coaches. I firmly believe that our DY is already gauging interests and putting out feelers through channels. I would be very disappointed for SFN to discover otherwise.

    I wanted Lowe to succeed for the benefit of the Wolfpack as much as anyone. I have (like many others) seen enough to know that this end of season will be very similar to his previous seasons here.

    Someone mentioned earlier that they thought that he might resign for dignity purposes. I hope that a chance to return to another NBA assistant spot will allow for that closure. I hope that he is willing to do so for the benefit of the program.

    Recruiting is one thing, but only a part of the big picture. Coaching that leads players toward obvious improvement is a must. These are his recruits. No more excuses. Have we improved in defense, rebounding, shot selection, game plans, substitution patterns, anything?

    To close on a positive note, Lee Fowler and HWSNBN are gone.

  19. Rufftown Wolf 12/21/2010 at 1:36 AM #

    It’s too early to throw in the towel just yet. Sid is a good coach b/c he didn’t take Scott Wood out of the game. He needs to do the same with Harrow. I noticed a couple times the postman had position and no one would give em the ball. If Tracy is in there, they give him the ball.

  20. Rick 12/21/2010 at 8:20 AM #

    “So whenever a player has a bad shooting night, the coach is to blame? I guess Roy Williams was to blame when Harrison Barnes went 0-for-18 that one game?”

    It is not about blame.

    It is about responsibility.

  21. Rick 12/21/2010 at 8:21 AM #

    I am not “pro Javi”. I am “pro NCSU”.

    But it seems to me that Javi has tried to do what the coaching staff has asked him. I do not think they know how to develop a player or a leader and that is why he is still not a good player after four years under this staff.

  22. Wulfpack 12/21/2010 at 8:45 AM #

    I agree, Rick. He had to take Harrow out because Harrow essentially lost the game for us once we had cut it to 4. He threw it away twice, leading to 4 easy Arizona points. What is Sid supposed to do? You have to yank him at that point. 2 minutes later, the game was essentially over.

    Javi HAS done what he is being asked to do. That’s what scares me about this staff. They don’t even have a clue what they want out of a player. That’s why you see all of these strange substitution patterns — it’s desperation in action. I’ve had it with this staff.

  23. PackisRolling 12/21/2010 at 10:53 AM #

    Does DY have a reputation as being difficult to work for? It seems she does based on her Maryland coaches. Will that hurt our chances of landing a high-caliber coach?

  24. Pack Mentality 12/21/2010 at 10:59 AM #

    “Boys, if you’re reading this, try not to let it get to you… you still have time to put together a good run and memorable season. After all, in ’83 it didn’t look so good until March, did it?. Please don’t transfer based on what some of these negatories are saying.”

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    I’m sure they’re reading this and saying, “we can’t beat a good team, our coach sucks, but I’m going to stick it out. Wait some SFN posters were unhappy with losing, I’m transferring!”

    Get a grip my man.

  25. Pack Mentality 12/21/2010 at 11:08 AM #

    ^Also, none of them remember your reference to ’83.

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