The Symmetry of Loserdom

I remember sitting in Carter-Finley on Philip Rivers’ Senior Day. State was choking against Maryland, and with under three minutes to play, the Terps missed what would have been the game tying extra point. I swear to God, I turned immediately to my family and said “Great, now we will lose in regulation.” Which we most certainly did.

State went on to beat a comically inept Kansas team in a meaningless minor bowl game, but what could have been a special (or at least very good) season had slipped away. And that was pretty much it for the Chuck Amato era. The window had slammed shut, and nothing epitomized the floundering to come better than that game against Maryland.

Flash forward to today. A game with the Atlantic Division title on the line for the Pack. A game that we only needed to win because of Tom O’Brien’s inexplicable decision to punt late against Clemson (after numerous blown opportunities to put the Tiggers away). A mediocre opponent with nothing to play for, whose spirit should have been crushed after finding themselves in an early 14-0 hole.

Of course our sphincters slammed shut. Of course we spit the bit. Of course we allowed Maryland to go on a 38-3 run and win the game. Of course we pissed away a “once in a generation” opportunity for a special season. We are NC State. That’s just how we roll.

Tom O’Brien proved his skeptics right. He can’t win the big one. He does get tight in pressure situations. He is a “football Sendek.” At least he probably won’t get a parade for matching Amato’s high water mark (5-3 in conference play). We’ve learned that much from past experience, one would hope.

Just like that chilly fall afternoon when Rivers threw his last home pass – Russell Wilson threw his last ACC pass today. And just like I strongly felt then, I feel it now – the window has slammed shut. It’s not going to happen for NC State under Tom O’Brien. Unless the “it” you are looking for is an 8-win season and a minor bowl bid. Blech.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

'10 Football ACC Chuck Amato Tom O'Brien

185 Responses to The Symmetry of Loserdom

  1. MP 11/28/2010 at 10:35 AM #

    I get the point about siezing opportunity, but there are a couple of counterpoints:

    Certain authors on this site are always quick to correct posters when they make comments like “We were almost 12-0!” with “We were just as close to being 6-6”. That certainly applies to this season. Yes, we should have beaten Clemson. But I was sitting about 25 feet away from the ‘good’ endzone at UNC, and we were very fortunate to win that game. I think all things considered we were about an 8-4 team, and that’s how we finished. Sure, with one more win we would have been playing for an ACC championship. But all things considered, who on this site looks at our team and really thinks that we are a conference champion – caliber team?

    I do agree with the concern that we may not be able to get over the top. Yesterday’s game was familiar in that we apparently don’t know what to do with an early lead when we find one. However, mistakes by various players particularly in the 2nd quarter prevented us from dropping the hammer more than coaching, in my opinion. Where coaching hurt us was more in the 2nd half when it had become clear that they had our blitz figured out and were burning us. There must have been a different scheme to change the looks they were getting, but with that said everyone here has been generally supportive of the aggressive scheme we have had this year – it just looked to me like Maryland figured out how to beat it.

    Considering that ‘we are who we thought (hoped) we were’, I don’t look at yesterday as the defining factor in whether this season was a success or not. All focus is on the bowl game. I don’t care who we play or where we play them, we HAVE to win our bowl game. This team has been on both the winning and losing sides of big games enough times, they need to pool that experience and win.

    I understand the frustration with not being a championship team. However, there is still a lot to respect about our coaching staff, including its continuity, and the way our players play and handle themselves. I would love for NC State to become a perennial ACC challenger/champion. BUT FOR NOW, I am okay with watching an 8-4 caliber team actually reach 8-4, for players playing with general good composure, and for a head coach that (1) handles his coaching staff well (2) doesn’t wear clown shoes and (3) doesn’t hug our rival’s coach after a crushing loss.

  2. hellfishtat 11/28/2010 at 10:59 AM #

    BJD95, do you EVER think about what you type before you upload it? When I read your posts earlier in the week, praising TOB, I knew as a 47yr old NCSU fan that it was going to come back and bite you in the ass. Jesus man, I often like coming here and getting information, but you’re bi-polar posts have got to quit. Get on some meds or learn to deal with the roller coaster that is NCSU.

    2nd post!

  3. theTHRILL 11/28/2010 at 10:59 AM #

    I just had a profound realization…fans who are happy “coming close” are satisfied, fans who want championships are fed up. Of course the response will be, “But we’re NC State. We’re not a championship school.” Exactly.

  4. BJD95 11/28/2010 at 11:13 AM #

    For the record, I would have been happy with just winning the Atlantic this year. We had multiple opportunities, and have only ourselves to blame for not getting it done.

    Yes, I do believe we were the best football team in the Atlantic Division. Not with the most raw talent, but the best overall TEAM. And I credit TOB for building such a team, but I also hold him responsible for not coming through when it counted most.

    I still think TOB is a good football coach, and that this was a good season overall. But we really could have used a moment, a season of greatness. And we didn’t get it, and have only ourselves to blame.

    What I wanted/expected when TOB was hired were 2 or 3 Atlantic titles, with at least one ACC championship. And frankly, it doesn’t make much sense to hire someone that close to retirement if you don’t have that expectation.

  5. BJD95 11/28/2010 at 11:15 AM #

    One more thought – if you think this is as good a season as NC State can reasonably expect, then the bottom line is that we have no business selling LTRs.

  6. highstick 11/28/2010 at 11:19 AM #

    “would trade a win over maryland today fir 4 straight losses to the heels”

    Never!!!!!! Not on your life!

  7. wolfman1959 11/28/2010 at 11:37 AM #

    BJD95……I know we have never met and yet I feel as if you are my long lost twin !!! Would you consider helping me pen a book about the trials and tribulations of being a WOLFPACK fan for the last 30 years? It would save us both a lot of writing as we seem to think the same way…….BTW , I am still steaming over the Spencer and Bryan drops and CJ Wilson’s
    absolutely horrible play at corner…..inexcusable !!!

  8. hball57 11/28/2010 at 11:51 AM #

    Last game of the regular season so I broke my rule today. I read message boards before giving myself 48 hours after a loss. I found about what i expected.

    I don’t know the age demographic of the posters on this site. I am over 50, so i have grown up in a different era than some with a different mindset. Now that doesn’t mean i was any less disappointed in yesterday’s loss. But I have grown to realize that you rarely go from the outhouse to the penthouse. I do not believe we should overlook improvement. And i am annoyed that people try to paint TOB’s post game comments as a loser mentality. You lose and important game after an 8-4 season, that is the exact tact you have to take after the game. Because it is true. It was a good season. No amount of bad mouthing will change that.

    I am also amazed as to how talented my least favorites groups of NC State fans are: The psychics and the “woe-is-me” whiners. The psychics are predicting that this is our only chance, we will never be better than this, we missed our only opportunity. The whiners are bringing up NC State’s recent history and they look for every misstep, every bad bounce, every bad game as proof of a ceiling on our future.

    Now maybe that is just the disappointment talking. I have been a NC State fan since 1974. I have been through the ups and downs. And i think some of our fan base needs to grow up. This staff is not Chuck’s staff (any one of them), O’Cains staff, Reed’s staff, Kiffin’s staff, none of them. So don’t take our history and apply it to this staff. This staff can go in any direction. It could be a mirror of Sheridan’s staff, which produced 1 ACC championship if my memory is correct.

    We don’t know the future. We need to forget the past. We need to take this year for what it is – a step. What direction will it go? We don’t know (not even those who have predicted it to fail). But we need to ride with the steps, and stop comparing them to the past. We pride our self as being a passionate fan base. Will we for once use our passion in the right direction?

    What a concept!

  9. theTHRILL 11/28/2010 at 12:00 PM #

    hball57 – I’m older as well (not quite your age) and I feel the exact opposite. It’s been my experience that the younger fans, the ones who have never tasted real NC State success in any sport, are the ones who are more likely to take the optimistic, wait til next year approach. I, on the other hand, realize that the opportunity we let slip through our hands this season may not come around again for a very, very long time. We let the perfect storm pass us by.

  10. WV Wolf 11/28/2010 at 12:02 PM #

    “when you look at eight wins, the history of our school and how many times it’s been done.”

    1927: 9-1
    1946: 8-3
    1963: 8-3
    1967: 9-2
    1972: 8-3-1
    1973: 9-3
    1974: 9-2-1
    1977: 8-4
    1978: 9-3
    1986: 8-3-1
    1988: 8-3-1
    1991: 9-3
    1992: 9-3-1
    1994: 9-3
    2000: 8-4
    2002: 11-3
    2003: 8-5

    17 times. I know we’re not a historical football power but it’s not like 8 wins happens once in a blue moon either.

  11. MP 11/28/2010 at 12:05 PM #

    Interesting how we had sustained success in the early ’90s. Here’s a toast to Jamie Barnette!

  12. T-Pack 11/28/2010 at 12:11 PM #

    Several things I have to share:

    (1) Disappointed? You’re doggone right I am. BUT if you’d have told me at the beginning of the season we’d finish 8 and 4, with a win at UNX, I’d have been pert near orgasmic. We lost games we should have won and won games we should have lost, and as maddening as it was to watch, it was fun to watch.

    (2) TOB = Sendak? No way. Sendak would have taken a loss like yesterday’s, put it in its own daytight compartment and commented on how we just needed to keep chopping wood. My sense is, for all his composure on the field, losses like this eat at TOB’s live like it does ours. Just a guess there, but a huge difference is that not only has TOB beaten our biggest rival over and over, he likes to rub it in . . . like we do.

    (3) The NCAA hammer WILL drop on UNX. With everything that’s happened over there, if it does not, the NCAA would lose all credibility and will have set some very questionable and undefendable precedents. And when it does drop, NCSU will reap the recruiting benefits, at least in-state. Yesterday was a dark day, but the future is looking brighter than ever.

  13. BJD95 11/28/2010 at 12:24 PM #

    1959, I would love to help you write that book, but I fear I would kill myself halfway through it. LMAO! This humble blog is the best I can do, and even my intermittent ramblings here take a lot out of me.

    Past is very often prologue, especially where NC State is concerned. I really believed yesterday would be different. It wasn’t.

    Dick Sheridan did not win any ACC championships. As soon as he cracked the Clemson code (which nobody else ever did in the Danny Ford era), along came FSU and we could never get the speed and athleticism to get over that hump. My favorite Sheridan trivia tidbit – he was the only coach to ever beat a Danny Ford-coached Clemson team three straight times.

    I was dead certain that we would have multiple other chances after 1986. I was 13 at the time. My age had almost tripled by the time the next real chance rolled around again.

    If THAT past is prologue, I had really better start eating better and taking my vitamins. 🙂

    In addition to all the other things that made this such a “perfect storm” opportunity was health. I don’t remember ever having a football season so remarkably free from injury.

  14. 61Packer 11/28/2010 at 12:24 PM #

    BJD, this is EXACTLY why Wolfpack administrators sold LTRs.

  15. wolfpack95 11/28/2010 at 12:29 PM #

    ^^
    MP,
    Jamie Barnette was NOT at State during the early 90s. He was our starting QB between 96 and 99.

    Those records between 86 and 92 were the success of Dick Sheridan. 93 and 94 were OCain’s first 2 years before the wheels fell off.

  16. OldEnough 11/28/2010 at 12:37 PM #

    The loss hurts but let’s not delude ourselves into thinking that TOB is on the hot seat. For now, TOB doesn’t have to recruit against that kind of speculation. Let’s not hurry to fill that gap by providing other ammunition to our opposition.

    I personally hope that Debbie Yow leans toward the Marye Anne Foxe style of management. When it becomes desirable to remove a coach, walk (and talk) softly but carry a big stick.

  17. Wufpacker 11/28/2010 at 12:38 PM #

    ^ Or, to put it another way….

    Before Sheridan’s program building skills were overcome by MOC’s coaching skills.

  18. tvp1 11/28/2010 at 12:41 PM #

    BJD, you are spot on in these comments.

    I was curious who you thought our “4 best players” are that will be gone next season. Who besides Wilson and Nate? If it’s Spencer and Williams, that says volumes really. Both of those guys had nice careers with inflated numbers due to how often we passed. Neither will play for very long (if at all) in the NFL. We’ve had at least 3 WR who were head and shoulders better than both of them in the past 10-12 years.

  19. Wufpacker 11/28/2010 at 12:43 PM #

    “It could be a mirror of Sheridan’s staff, which produced 1 ACC championship if my memory is correct.”

    Your memory is not correct, unfortunately. Sheridan came close in the early 90’s (’92?) but fell just short that year. Not since the late Bo Rein (’79) has the Wolfpack tasted a Championship in football, and then we didn’t even get a bowl bid that year.

    No respect, I tell ya.

  20. BJD95 11/28/2010 at 12:46 PM #

    Spencer and Bryan. I’m bummed about losing Lemon, too – but not sure if he’s better than Manning (probably our 5th best player).

    MOC was actually ok coaching-wise (see the Peach Bowl win from his second season, which was very good) but he totally lacked Sheridan’s program building ability.

  21. highstick 11/28/2010 at 12:54 PM #

    If winning the ACC is your goal, your goals are not set very high..

    If dominating the ACC is your goal, then let’s get it on!

    I’d love to see us break out of this mentality and do what is necessary to produce at national power, not a regional contender in a weak conference.

  22. MP 11/28/2010 at 12:55 PM #

    My bad… truly a slip as I was just discussing “the Terrys” a few weeks ago.

  23. Wufpacker 11/28/2010 at 1:07 PM #

    “MOC was actually ok coaching-wise (see the Peach Bowl win from his second season, which was very good) but he totally lacked Sheridan’s program building ability.”

    Agreed that MOC had some well-coached games. That Peach Bowl against Miss St. was a perfect example. Helluva game and maybe the best bowl win I’ve ever seen in person.

    But he had the market cornered on WTF games. He was the king of the Wolfpack “shoulda, coulda, woulda” mentality.

    Whether it was due to inferior program building (program maintaining?), coaching, or something else altogether I’m not sure if that even matters. Ultimately he just couldn’t keep the momentum going more than a few years.

  24. Wufpacker 11/28/2010 at 1:10 PM #

    Winning the ACC is the first goal, ‘Stick. It has to be. I agree that the ultimate goal should always be building a dynasty. Being the team to beat year in and year out. The kind of thing where they say “The road to the ACC runs through Raleigh”. And of course vying for top 10 teams and getting a reasonable shot at a BCS Championship every now and again.

    But we have to walk before we can run.

  25. hball57 11/28/2010 at 1:19 PM #

    BJD are we losing Bryan? Do you have some inside info?

    Let me ask – if TOB produced Sheridan results for the next five years, would we be happy?

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