Tuesday Update – TOB and BJD Now Singing From Same Hymnal

Not that Tom O’Brien has any idea who I am, or that many of you care. But what I read in the newspaper this morning was extremely reassuring:

“If we were a great team, we’d be in the final,” O’Brien said during an interview Monday in his office. “But we’re a pretty good team. And to be pretty good after the three years we’ve went through is really a giant step forward for the program.”

Perhaps Tom and I each just needed some time to cool down. I was angry about losing the Atlantic Division and the chance to play for a title (even as a significant underdog). TOB was (understandably) a little defensive after losing the same, which is apparently just the way he processes disappointment. So, in the immediate aftermath – he was throwing around the word “great” and I threw out “football Sendek.” I was too raw to remember my favorite Costanza mantra. My bad.

In summary – I still agonize over the lost opportunity. Everyone does, or should. It was still a pretty good season, and hopefully will be remembered more as a stepping stone than the apex of the Tom O’Brien era. The head man himself seems to think so, and that’s very encouraging. After all, NC State football and Tom O’Brien are still each other’s last, best chance to get over that elusive damned hump.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

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90 Responses to Tuesday Update – TOB and BJD Now Singing From Same Hymnal

  1. choppack1 11/30/2010 at 3:43 PM #

    “If they were intimately familiar with these concepts, then there is no way we lose the games where we go ahead by two or more scores and then get beat soundly from then on.”

    So you’re saying Nick Saban needs a refresher course as well?

  2. jrsr 11/30/2010 at 3:52 PM #

    Is there any talk that Glennon may be transferring next year?

  3. Ismael 11/30/2010 at 3:59 PM #

    I too saw this article in the N&O and smiled, you can tell that TOB is really thinking now about what might have been. I bet he regrets the hell out of that punt now at Clemson. We may have lost to UNC the next week but beating Clemson and then UNC would have won the conference for us.

    I truly believe, regardless of this recruiting class, which could all be redshirted, that we’ll be fine and this is simply a stepping stone. We played a lot of tough road games this year and won some of them. I also take a tiny bit of solace into bowl prep that for about 2 qtrs, we were beating the pants off the ACC champs (reg. season VT).

  4. ShavlikLeague 11/30/2010 at 4:46 PM #

    “So you’re saying Nick Saban needs a refresher course as well?”

    Perhaps…I don’t know. I follow NC State and ACC football more closely than other conferences, as far as watching games from beginning to end. As a result, I am more familiar with TOB/Bible’s body of work, more so than Saban’s.

    How is a Nick Saban reference relevant in this discussion of TOB/Bible?

  5. Gowolves 11/30/2010 at 4:52 PM #

    Some of you are silly to think that we could go 5-7 the previous year to 10-2 or 9-3. This is not Alabama, Michigan, etc. where there is so much talent that is possible. So we build with a better foundation. At the end of the season there will always be shoulda, would, coulda. I don’t think anyone here that is happy with the season is also satisfied. We want more to. But I do remeber some posts after the UNC win that no one wanted to be a flash in the pan. Look at what BC has done since he left. They are still winning and that program was left dead in the water when he arrived.

  6. BAC79 11/30/2010 at 4:58 PM #

    We still have Mike Archer as DC. yuk.

  7. Sam92 11/30/2010 at 5:01 PM #

    actually, i’m glad to see some people complainig and dissing on TOB — it shows that there are a lot of us who expect more out of the program than an 8 win regular season — me too, and i do think it was within grasp this year.

    however, what i felt i really had to see this year was significant improvement — and i saw it. 8 wins is definitely headed in the right direction.

    but i want 9 (or more) wins next season.

    and if we don’t get it, i want to retire TOB and take a chance on someone young and dynamic who appears to have talent and potential (not that that will ever happen)

  8. Rick 11/30/2010 at 5:02 PM #

    I am not thrilled with the way the season ended but 8-4 is a solid season.
    We shall see what TOB does next year.
    Losing his best players seems like it might set us back but who knows.

  9. GoldenChain 11/30/2010 at 5:03 PM #

    While, like you, I am satisfied with what has been accomplished this season BJD I’m not sure I agree with this ending sentence:

    “After all, NC State football and Tom O’Brien are still each other’s last, best chance to get over that elusive damned hump.”

    That’s from the Jim Rome school of thought for NCSU.
    I think Debbie could find a darn fine coach who could do a bang-up job….in fact I trust her MUCH MORE than I trusted Jed when he hired TOB.
    If we go 8+ next year fine, if we slide back to 6 or less, pull the triger. His recruiting for next season is off to a terrible start (not in the Rivals top-50). Given the issue in ah I don’t see how this could be in the state of North Carolina.
    I want NCSU to be in the forefront og NCHSAA players, not an afterthought when unx gets nailed.

  10. Astral Rain 11/30/2010 at 5:04 PM #

    That loss Saturday hurt really bad. But, 5-7 to 8-4 is a good improvement.

    I felt like we were playing with house money after the UNC game.

  11. runwiththepack 11/30/2010 at 5:12 PM #

    I am sometimes mystified with this team, too. Losing to ECU now looks real bad, esp after spotting ECU 0-21 lead. We weren’t in synch at MD, but we had a glorious victory over FSU on ESPN. Thank goodness Duke wasn’t on our schedule.
    Go figure.
    But – we FINALLY broke into a good 8-4 year! Darned good turn for the program. Why torture myself about what might have been. After all, we were 5-7 last year, when we were absolutely creamed at least 3 times. All our losses this year were close. The biggest difference this year was we didn’t have a lot of guys injured, LIKE NATE IRVING.

    This year shows what we could have done last year. The team played only one ACC team that had a losing overall record (WF). State went 2-1 against teams in the Coastal Division that were a combined 15-6 in the ACC (not including their ncsu games). By contrast, Maryland played the two worst teams -by far -in the Coastal division, as well as Miami. Not counting their MD games, they went 6-15 in the ACC.

    We beat GT, FSU, BC, and UNC, which are teams that have a winning record against us in the years that I have been a Pack fan.

    Those of you gnashing your teeth over 8-4, 5-3: I don’t see why you’re so negative, even if it is true that NCSU “could” have done better. It IS important that the players not be satisfied, but i don’t see much reason that us fans should be dissatisfied.

  12. mak4dpak 11/30/2010 at 5:35 PM #

    8-4 is a great record, with our past history. But I still can’t get over the Maryland loss. Tom O’Brien and his staff knew what was on the line, but couldn’t prepare the team for a division championship. Archer needs to go, the pass defense was terrible. Maryland had minus yards rushing, but yet we couldn’t blitz the heck out of the QB. 400 plus yards against us the last 2 weeks. And 82 for Maryland torched our defense, and no adjustments made to stop him. If O’Brien wants to remanin at State, then he needs to take a serious look at his staff, so we can get to that next level. And it wouldn’t hurt Bible to do some enhancement of his play calling. So hopefully we win the bowl game, and see more success next year, but it will never happen, unless O’Brien make some changes, and perhaps put Tenuta as the head defensive coach, and send Archer packing. Never had like Archer, and his play calling.

  13. hball57 11/30/2010 at 5:56 PM #

    After skimming the comments let me add some random thoughts.

    I am tired of the people who say every year that Butch Davis will be handing us our lunch for years to come. Let’s see he is 0-4. I have no faith in those predictions.

    We love to focus on the games we lost. Sometimes when you are flawed you play teams who have talent in the areas that can attack that. ECU and Maryland did that. If we blitz and we don’t get there you can exploit our secondary. It is hard to blitz AND double team receivers.

    If our young players improve a little, can’t we make up for our losses? I believe it will be 4 from the two deep on each side of the ball.

    Can we have a few 8-4 seasons before we get tired of 8-4 seasons?

    I hope whatever bowl game we get we will get a BCS opponent, preferably someone with a name. Maybe a Florida, Alabama, someone with a name. Rather that then a MAC or Notre Dame (who really doesn’t have name recognition for anyone under 40!).

  14. Werewolf of Yadkinville 11/30/2010 at 6:58 PM #

    AMEN wolfdog1. A F’n MEN.

  15. Werewolf of Yadkinville 11/30/2010 at 7:04 PM #

    I don’t think we can blame the coaches for this one. The players have blocked all season. The recievers have caught the ball MOST of the season. Why do they stop the last week of the year in the biggest game of their lives? Owen dropped two touchdown passes I know of and Bryan one. Maryland was swarming to the ball on tackles and were knocking the absolute $HIT out of our boys. Maryland whipped our ass with talent and heart. Not coaching.

  16. Werewolf of Yadkinville 11/30/2010 at 7:09 PM #

    They wanted it more. Our boys rolled over and died. Russell ran for his life all night.

  17. choppack1 11/30/2010 at 7:19 PM #

    “How is a Nick Saban reference relevant in this discussion of TOB/Bible?”

    You were talking about blowing leads – Saban blew a 24 point lead. Boise State blew a big lead too. It happens.

    Heck, this year, NC State was 2-2 when it trailed at half time -and one of those losses was in OT. (They were 6-2 when they led at the half.)

    I watch a lot of football – hell, I was up at 2 AM watching that damn Boise-Nevada game – and I think when a game gets close, it’s just basically going to come down to making plays. Vs UNC and FSU our guys made ’em – the opponent didn’t. Against UMd and Clemson – they made ’em and we didn’t.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think TOB is a genius or even an excellent coach. I think he’s a solid football coach, but he’s definitely got a huge stubborn streak.

  18. choppack1 11/30/2010 at 7:20 PM #

    “I think Debbie could find a darn fine coach who could do a bang-up job”

    Really – who has she hired in a male revenue sport who has kicked ass?

  19. tuckerdorm1983 11/30/2010 at 7:22 PM #

    well we could have done more, but we did much more than those in the past who had much more and did much less aka (chuck the chest) But others had much less and did much more.(dick sheridan). I ask myself at night why those folks in Boston did not like our current fellow. Maybe they gave away a jewel and did not know it or maybe they knew exactly what they were giving away. I ask myself these questions and am left being not sure. Would I settle for a pretty woman to be my wife. That is well above average, but not too well above average or would I want a supermodel. What if a supermodel came up to me on the street and asked me for a date. Would I dump this above average wife? Questions??????

  20. ShavlikLeague 11/30/2010 at 8:16 PM #

    “You were talking about blowing leads – Saban blew a 24 point lead. Boise State blew a big lead too. It happens.”

    You are referring to one game in one season for two different teams. I am referring to several games not only in this season, but also in seasons past where I have seen TOB teams come out of the gates kicking 4ss and taking names. And when the opposing DCs make adjustments, TOB/Bible do not really alter the game plan to account for the changes the defense has made.

    “…it’s just basically going to come down to making plays.”

    I agree, but there’s a difference in forcing things and taking what a defense will give you. Granted, maybe some of the forces are on Russell, but for the most part I got the sense that TOB/Bible didn’t care what you did on defense, they were going to run whatever play they wanted.

    “Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think TOB is a genius or even an excellent coach. I think he’s a solid football coach, but he’s definitely got a huge stubborn streak.”

    I hear ya…I understand where you’re coming from. I just don’t think you can compare Saban’s loss to Auburn (or the Boise St./Nevada loss) to a discussion of TOB/Bible’s play-calling philosophy.

  21. choppack1 11/30/2010 at 8:18 PM #

    tuckerdorm – I think it’s obvious why BC was tired of the guy.

    Here’s the thing though tuckerdorm – what if that supermodel turned out to be meth-head or gives you something you can’t fix w/ standard medicine.

    TOB is what he is. He’s definitely not Nick Saban, he’s not Lane Kiffin and he’s not BMFD. Heck, I’d go as far to say if he keeps on putting himself in the position for a division title, he’ll eventually finish the job. My big question is whether this is the high water mark or not.

  22. Gowolves 11/30/2010 at 8:23 PM #

    TD1983

    Too funny. If she is too hot does another man come along and take her?

  23. choppack1 11/30/2010 at 9:17 PM #

    Shavlick – I’m just saying that leads get blown in close football games. It happens all the time. And think of it the other way, vs FSU we were down 14 and came back and won. We were down 21 vs ECU and forced OT. We were down 9 to UNC and won

    I do think TOB and Bible will change their gameplan depending on the situation – in part, that’s why we threw 60 times vs. UMd…and it’s why in the 2nd half vs. UNC we ran about 6 or 7 straight times.

    I will say this – they are going to run their stuff. I don’t think we’ve seen too many trick plays in the 4 years they’ve been here. Of course, when you average close to 30 points a game, you’re not really prone to introspection – but I would agree w/ you if said the offense underacheived this year…because all too often, they didn’t produce when they needed to.

  24. hball57 11/30/2010 at 9:39 PM #

    Can I give an opinion about BC?

    The 15 people who cared about football wanted championships. The other alumni didn’t care.

    They are in a horrible recruiting area, they don’t support their team and they don’t have great facilities. And these morons complain about 8 win seasons! And since then, what did they have? An championship appearance with TOB’s players and…. 7, 8 wins.

    Maybe the problem wasn’t TOB. Maybe they should know their role.

    So the question will be … with a passionate fan base, with great facilities, with a better recruiting area (not spectacular) can he go further. What we need to realize, he had to get here (8 wins) before he can go forward. Now we will see.

  25. Primewolf 11/30/2010 at 9:52 PM #

    I don’t see the bright future with TOB. I see a mediocre to slightly better than middling future.

    My concerns:
    1. Predictable offense scheme and play calling. I am sick of watching Bible/TOB offense grind to a halt against any defense worth its salt. And particularly against a defense that makes adjustments, shuts us down and we have no counter. Why they try to make RW an in the pocket passer is beyond me. If we had run counters, misdirections, reverses off RW rolling out, etc, we would have won 10 games this year. RW is better throwing on the run and also is always a threat to run. They make a 5’10” QB a pocket passer who obvioulsy couldn’t see half the field on many plays with a heavy rush coming. ABsolutely stupid, stubborn, rigid scheme. Would Lou Holtz have done that. I think not.
    2. Weak recruiting. Yep, TOB was lucky with a few of Amato’s recruits like Wilson and Irving. I don’t think you can compete at a high level with mostly unrecruited players. 3. Awful game based strategy and clock management. Do we ever practice getting down the field in a hurry. Do we know when not to punt.
    4. With the exception of Tenuta’s influence this year, poor defensive coaching. I thought our lack of adjustment on the MD receiver was atrocious. Idiots. We weren’t getting pressure. We couldn’t cover him in your basic zone coverage. They beat us with the same play, keep a backer in on long passes in case we blitz and throw it to their best receiver, who is going to be open in a zone coverage given 3+ seconds of QB time . We had no counter.
    5. Coaches not taking responsibility and blaming players, lack of playmakers. I thought our strategy and play calling vs ECU was the worst I have seen in a decade. The OT was atrocious. You start rolling RW out on more than 1/2 of the plays, use counters, reads, reverses, screens, shovels, bunches and you got yourself an offense. No, lets try the tailback up the middle one more time for a yard when we are running out of time. Those fools think that play keeps the defense honest. I’d say open it up so they don’t know where RW will be next or who has the ball.

    The trend in our losses are all the same. Other team has a good plan against our schemes. Other team makes some offensive or defensive adjustments. We have no answer and don’t even try anything different. We lose. That is what disappoints me.

    I will take an innovative exciting coach that makes adjustments, takes some risks and attracts exciting players over the TOB mold of staid predictability. I don’t see him getting us over the hump due to his own limitations in getting better assistants, much better recruiting, and innovative schemes.

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