NC State’s Freshman Class

Campus News NC State Administration26

“NC State’s incoming freshman class had a weighted high school grade point average of 4.23 and an average SAT score of 1,746.  Nearly 75% of the 4,550 students were in the top 20% of their high school class, and the group has students from 97 North Carolina counties, 42 states and 23 countries.”  – NC State Alumni Magazine, Autum 2010.

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SFN Question: The SAT with which I grew up was based on a 1,600 point scale.  Can the good folks in our community educate everyone with some details and context of the changes in the scoring system and when these scoring changes were implemented?  Thanks so much!

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26 Responses to NC State’s Freshman Class

  1. 89BSBA 10/05/2010 at 3:36 PM #

    http://tinyurl.com/3xku5pu

    2400 points – they added the writing section in 2005.

  2. TopTenPack 10/05/2010 at 3:37 PM #

    What county in NC could not get a student into NC State?

  3. StateFans 10/05/2010 at 3:44 PM #

    What three counties?

  4. PackMan97 10/05/2010 at 4:11 PM #

    The scores for SATs have also be trending up. For example, on just the math and verbal section, scores are on average 20 points higher now than back in my day. Considering even more folks are taking the test then ever before, I think there is an argument to be made that the test is easier. Either that, or the schools take a few weeks to prep for the test (which wouldn’t surprise me). Let’s take time to teach folks how to take the test instead of actually teaching them something useful.

  5. ruffles31 10/05/2010 at 4:15 PM #

    Orange County? 🙂

  6. El Scrotcho 10/05/2010 at 4:43 PM #

    That would roughly work out to an average SAT score of 1,164 in the pre-writing world.

    This article has all kinds of juicy scores, GPA, ranks, ethnicity, valedictorian information from 1998-2007 for comparison.
    http://www2.acs.ncsu.edu/UPA/admissions/fresprof.htm

    This article and the comment I’ve highlighted below shed some additional light on the change in scores over time, as referenced by PackMan97.

    http://isteve.blogspot.com/2010/09/is-sat-getting-easier.html?showComment=1285222255489#c6727765519213465128

  7. Alpha Wolf 10/05/2010 at 6:03 PM #

    Either those kids are smarter than we were in the 1970s or the tests have been made easier. Sheesh, I was in the 91st percentile, but my SAT score from 1978 wouldn’t qualify me as a Special Student now.

  8. elvislives 10/05/2010 at 6:09 PM #

    The College of Design Alumni magazine stated that “9 out of every 10 applicants to the College of Design were rejected for the 2010-11 academic year”. I’m as proud an alumni as the next guy (back when it was the School of Design, to date myself) but perhaps there is a more elloquent way to state one’s pride in being exclusive?

  9. Alpha Wolf 10/05/2010 at 6:33 PM #

    We need to grow and we need to stay selective. I **REALLY** like what Woodson is up to.

    Best of all, the man is a homebrewer. I intend to talk to him about UC Davis’s school for fermentation science and try to talk him into making NCSU the center of the same thing in the east. Food Sciences has 2/3’s of it now, they just need to admit there is more than just wine to make with yeasties.

  10. mikeD 10/05/2010 at 7:01 PM #

    Since the test has been around for so long now, there are many teachers that take some time to teach how to take the exam. There are also numerous classes and study material students which aim at getting a higher score, not necessarily gaining a better understanding of the material.

    Along the same line of thought, many teachers will teach how to pass their EOCs (end of course exams), but not necessarily go into detail in the subject. It results in passing the EOCs with flying colors. However, students leave the class without really understanding the subject beyond the need of answering questions.

    Standardized tests are a good thing to have, but it can turn bad in certain contexts.

  11. McCallum 10/05/2010 at 7:40 PM #

    Couple of items:

    1) The SAT has become easier. The beloved was on faculty at wake forest (hence forth known as the lucky sperm club, wake not the beloved) and the test is slanted toward the rise of higher scoring.

    2) The school of CHASS and Management is now skewing the make up of the student body. The larger cities in North Carolina are now having even a larger % of the student population and I would suggest that State is becoming LESS diverse. In that aspect of diverse I mean more monolithic, more cul de sac, more suburban.

    3) With the skewing of student enrollment by two schools which are not part of the land grant charge the competition to enroll at State is INCREASING. Not a good thing if you are a rural kid with a 900-1000 SAT score (old scoring system) and you want to study forestry or pulp and paper science. It is out right foolish that you’d need a 1,300-1,400 SAT (old scoring system) to obtain a BS degree in agronomy, fisheries and wildlife, animal science, etc. Those students increasing the competition to gain entrance into State should be served by the other 15 NC system schools.

    4) The enrollment of women has risen greatly in the last 10 years. All I can say for that is this: damn.

    McCallum

  12. jhmd2000 10/05/2010 at 8:42 PM #

    How on Earth do all 100 counties not have representation at NC State? That’s a bar bet winner if I’ve ever heard one.

  13. TheNotTarheelState 10/05/2010 at 9:05 PM #

    ^ At the 2000 census Tyrell county had a population of 4149. Of that number only 8.2% were between the ages of 18 & 24; that comes out to about 340. If 10% of those improved their education beyond high school that would be 34. I could be wrong but I’d be willing to bet that most of those 34 went to a nearby community college. The 4 or 5 that didn’t probably didn’t stray too far from home (ECU, Elizabeth City State, etc).

  14. a__l__a__n 10/05/2010 at 10:14 PM #

    A series of changes have been made over the years to the SAT. Pretty much all of them have been designed to make the test easier, at least for certain groups. See

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAT#1980_test_and_associated_changes

    Quote: The test scoring was initially scaled to make 500 the mean score on each section with a standard deviation of 100.[28] As the test grew more popular and more students from less rigorous schools began taking the test, the average dropped to about 428 Verbal and 478 Math. The SAT was “recentered” in 1995, and the average “new” score became again close to 500. Scores awarded after 1994 and before October 2001 are officially reported with an “R” (e.g. 1260R) to reflect this change. Old scores may be recentered to compare to 1995 to present scores by using official College Board tables,[29] which in the middle ranges add about 70 points to Verbal and 20 or 30 points to Math. In other words, current students have a 100 (70 plus 30) point advantage over their parents.

  15. 64GTO 10/05/2010 at 11:21 PM #

    I’s a little mystified by NC State’s academic recruitment strategy. My oldest daughter is currently doing her college applications. She has done really well on the SAT’s, has an almost perfect GPA, aced her AP tests, and has an expressed interest in a career in genetics research. All of this information is available to schools. She has been recruited by UNC, Miami, Clemson, South Carolina, and others. This week she received an unsolicited offer of a full four year scholarship to Auburn. But other than a postcard last spring, nothing from ol’ NC State. Maybe State’s philosophy is we only want students who seek out NC State. What if TOB or Sid used that recruitment philosophy?

  16. pyejam 10/06/2010 at 1:17 AM #

    Paper Science & Engineering for lifeee

  17. El Lobo Loco! 10/06/2010 at 3:33 AM #

    ^^^^Alpha Wolf
    As a grad student in the Food Science dept we tried to ferment some (good) stuff from sweet potatoes but there were some regulations that made it illegal to ferment beyond the alcohol grade of wine.
    I guess these rules come from the prohibition era and have not been updated, though moonshine is everywhere

  18. PackHooligan 10/06/2010 at 8:30 AM #

    ^64GTO, the same was true 10+ years ago when I was applying to colleges. I definitely received much more proactive interest from schools not named NC State (GT was probably the most proactive). The textiles school was the only part of NCSU that I remember doing any “recruiting.” I went to State anyways, so they saved a few bucks on paper and still got me.

  19. McCallum 10/06/2010 at 8:33 AM #

    You food science refugees could use a real lesson in home brewing: corn likker.

    Put away all that hipster non-sense about home brews, micro brews, dioxin free barley malts and so forth. Reach back to your roots, make tax free corn likker.

    BTW: the higher education venues in most of the South are not all that grand. Sure, down this way they think the Terry College of Business is a Wharton of some sort but reality says most of those yahoos will be working two or three counties over in metro Atlanta because they “knew” someone. State is still State, a difficult school resigned to treating everyone like crap.

    State has the care and concern for prospective students like an IED is mindful of a kindergarten outing.

    McCallum

  20. GoldenChain 10/06/2010 at 8:41 AM #

    64GTO, I hear you.
    My youngest will graduate from the UoChicago next Christmas with and is checking into grad school options. The School of Ed has a degree he was interested in and the director of that program basically did not answer his questions…any of them. He blew him off (figuratively). I contacted the Dean and told her my wife was an Magna Cum Laude alumni of that school, we had supported it for 30 years through the Annual Fund plus she was the OutStanding instructor at the local CC (6,000 students) and is up for the state award and frankly we expected better from the school than we got. She vowed to get answers but two weeks went by. No answers. I contacted her again. Two more weeks later he got a curt email basically saying, “well you’ll just have to apply and see what happens”. Meanwhile UNC and USC were all over him, especially UNC.
    Chicago is on all the top 10 university lists and my son is a perenial Dean’s Lister. Their grads are coveted by everyone…except NCSU.

  21. Texpack 10/06/2010 at 9:31 AM #

    I found the comments by McCallum regarding the shifting make up of the student body at NC State very interesting, particularly the ones about rural kids with 900-1000 SAT scores not being able to get into the university anymore. I can assure you that 1000 on the SAT wouldn’t have gotten you into the Pulp & Paper program back when I went through it in the early 80’s.

    In Texas, after lawsuits over the affirmative action elements of the admissions policies at UT Austin, the legislature implemented an admissions policy that guarantees admission to any state university if you finish in the top 10% of your high school class. It has allowed a lot of kids from crappy inner city schools in the urban areas and rural schools as well to get into UT Austin and A&M. In fact it has resulted in a situation where ONLY kids who finish in the top 10% of their high school class can get in at UT Austin. A&M implemented a minimum SAT score for auto admission in addition to that. The 10% rule was designed to keep more suburban white kids out of UT and A&M because they go to more competitive high schools where it takes excellence in a more challenging course of study to attain top 10% status.

    This has created a situation where in the Fall of 2009 almost 1000 students with SAT scores below 1000 were admitted to UT Austin. These are kids with little or no AP/Pre-AP course work under their belts. My son, whose admissions profile was better than the AVERAGE freshman admitted at State (1400 SAT, 4.28 GPA, 12% class rank), had no shot at getting in at UT even though he was accepted into the honors programs at four different universities. I point this out just to say that affirmative action, be it for rural kids or inner city kids, still has its victims.

  22. IamGumbyDammit 10/06/2010 at 12:39 PM #

    1746/2400 could arguably be approximated to making an 1164/1600 on the old exam scoring model. Then again, the two tests are not exactly comparable but you get the idea…

  23. FredandDwight82 10/06/2010 at 2:27 PM #

    +1 for 64GTO and GoldenChain comments. Add to this, the difficulties in getting an answer on financial aid and scholarships for which you have applied even after you are accepted and it is a wonder that ANY student with decent grades attends NCSU. I am just really not sure why this attitude permeates the entire admissions process, but it does. Have I missed the academic rankings passing MIT or Princeton? Or even Ga Tech? I get better service at Wendy’s…

  24. PackPearl 10/06/2010 at 3:43 PM #

    I guess that I’m really out of date. How do you make a GPA higher than 4.0 ? Also, I entered in ’83 and 1000+ got you in with ease.

  25. McCallum 10/06/2010 at 3:48 PM #

    Texpack,

    Good points.

    You do understand that my contention is that non land grant oriented schools (CHASS and Management) are growing at the expense of land grant oriented schools (CALS, Forestry, etc)?

    I contend that State should not change its character to “get big” and getting big means increasing enrollment in degree programs which are a dime a dozen. Just how many business majors from Charlotte with 1,300 on the SAT are knocking students out that want to study agronomy but only hit 1,000 on the SAT?

    McCallum

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