Breaking Lies: Austin, Little & Quinn permanently ineligible [11:40 Update & Commentary]

UNC Scandal69

According to reports, Greg Little and Robert Quinn will never see the field again for UNC-CH.  According to the linked article:

Little accepted diamond earrings, as well as travel accommodations for the Bahamas, Washington D.C. and two trips to Miami, among other benefits. Quinn accepted two black diamond watches, a pair of matching earrings and travel accommodations for a trip to Miami, among other benefits.

Heather Dinich of ESPN contradicts Butch Davis’ repeated comments to the media suggesting that Austin has been working his way back onto the team and that his absence hasn’t been NCAA-related.

The NCAA found unethical conduct charges against Little and Quinn for providing false and misleading information, saying they were not truthful during three separate interviews with university and NCAA enforcement staff members. North Carolina did not seek to have Austin, who was ruled ineligible for accepting improper benefits, reinstated by the NCAA.

Dick Baddour released this statement regarding Austin, Little, and Quinn.

“It’s a sad day when three young men are no longer able to represent their school based on actions they have taken and decisions they have made contrary to NCAA rules. Unfortunately, they made serious mistakes in judgment in accepting extra benefits and then not being truthful with our staff and NCAA representatives. Now they must forfeit the privilege of playing again for the Tar Heels,” Baddour said in a statement.

One of the worst “offenses” that any school can commit where the NCAA is concerned is a lack of truthfulness by one of their representatives during an investigation.  This turn of events – not the suspension, but instead, some of UNC’s players lying to the NCAA – does not bode well for the UNC football team when the final punishment is doled out.

SFN Commentary (11:40am)

A real shocker here, folks (sarcasm). This set of developments only goes to show you HOW MUCH lying is/was going on here:

First, these ‘kids’ have been lying to the NCAA and anyone else who has been asking questions.  Blatantly lying over and over.  In my best Scooby Doo villain voice — ‘and they would  have gotten away with it, too if it weren’t for that meddling Marcel Dareus!’

But, it is just nice that the Carolina fans can no longer whine that the NCAA isn’t treating them fairly by not ruling on their athletes and keeping them in limbo.  No more of that.  Here is your ruling.  You have what you wanted.

And, we have what we wanted with another stroke that shows just how much lunacy – some would call lying – was behind Butch Davis’ ridiculous quotes that Marvin Austin is in the process of ‘working his way back on the team’.

In addition to dozens of comments that we have made in our general message forums over the last couple of months stating that Austin, Little & Quinn were finished for the year…how else could/should you have known that this was the path the investigation was taking?  Take a look at our real-time analysis posted on September 9th in this forum thread – The Truth behind NCAA’s punishment of Green & Dareus:

I’ve heard a lot of people discussing and complaining about the difference between the punishments of (Georgia’s) AJ Green and (Alabama’s) Dareus.

In short, Green got 4 games for ‘selling a jersey’ (code for accepting money) from an agent for $1,000. Dareus got just 2 games for accepting about $1,800 worth of benefits in the form of a trip to one of the SouthBeach parties that Austin and the Carolina guys attended.

I have been very disappointed in the lack of analysis and thought into what is really going on here. So…let me help the radio guys and television guys that don’t get it.

Dareus cut a deal! Green’s violation is cut and dry and easy to punish in light of the NCAA’s set schedule of punishments.

Dareus, however, had material information about players and agents and what was happening in this whole Marvin Austin runner ring.

If you go back and look at the history of this whole thing, Dareus has been the most open and forthcoming from the very start. He & Alabama have played this thing perfectly, and I’m guessing that one can draw a conclusion about the quality of the information he provided by the light punishment he received.

That is not good news for UNC.

We were only one month ahead of today’s news with our version of the news.  But, what do we know – eh Dicky?  Erskine?  Holden?  Radio guys who talk junk about us?

Just remember, everyone – the folks at Inside Carolina have inside scoop (planted by this trustworthy coaching staff) that will ball over by next Friday.  Then the next Friday.  Then the next Friday.  There is nothing to it.  Nothing bad is going to happen to Carolina.

I just hope that all of the high school recruits, their coaches and their families are paying attention to the ever growing list of lies being pinned on the UNC spin machine; because they are the targets of the current big ones that Carolina is going to be fine and there is no reason to fear future sanctions.  Just like the way Marvin is working his way back onto the team.

—————————–

Dick Baddour and Butch Davis have a press conference scheduled for 11:30AM. This entry will be updated with details as they become available, so stay tuned.

Dick Baddour:

“There is a a lot of smoke around here.”

So says the man in the middle of raging forest fire.

“I’m will fight the institutional control issues…I will not accept Loss of Institutional Control.”

Let’s do some math here, Dick. You’ve lost three players permanently, and eight or nine others at least for part of the year.  You’ve got agent problems, academic fraud problems, an assistant coach working for an agent, and a former player with major drug charges working out in your facility and hanging out with your kids.  No, there’s no evidence of a loss of institutional control.  Sure, right, whatever you say, Dickie!

But why not stick both feet in your mouth when you have one already in there?

“We have strong compliance.  We were doing more than significant things.  We need to do more and that part will evolve.”

So strong that you’ve lost three players permanently, that you have tutors writing papers for team members and a coach working for an agent while he is second in command at your school.  Wow.  That’s some STRONG compliance there.  In fact, I would call it SIGNIFICANT compliance.  Amazing.

No, what’s even more seriously amazing is that Baddour said that UNC will continue to honor the scholarships of the three players who were permanently ruled ineligible.

“We will honor the scholarships of the athletes.”

Really?  After the NCAA kicked them out of college football forever?   JUST the kind of folks you want hanging around the school and no doubt hanging with their friends, many of whom are undoubtedly playing football for UNC.  That’s like leaving Stage 4 cancer hanging around, without having any need to have an oncologist cut it out and help you heal.  Maybe that’s the Carolina Way.

Bomani Jones, formerly of 850 AM here in Raleigh and now with a national show on Sirius/XM, perhaps put it best in Twitter:

“baddour should stop talking. he’s acting like this athletic program has never had top notch athletes. uh, basketball?”

Jones has been the most direct radio host, and been pretty much called this one down the line: that UNC is in some real trouble and that there’s no real excuse for the shenanigans that went on there the past few years.  Jones is right, but apparently over in Chapel Hill, not many involved in this scandal are living in the same reality as the rest of us.

According to Baddour today, Little, Quinn and Austin were told on Friday about their status with the team. Mark Armstrong, sports anchor at WTVD tweeted this today:

Per TJ Yates: Greg Little had ‘tears in his eyes’ this morning after getting the news.

Then again, the three dismissed players were seen signing autographs and having pictures taken with young people at the UNC-Clemson ballgame in Kenan Stadium on Saturday, so apparently, Little’s tears were shortlived.

Why in the world were these kids — who had been kicked off of the team permanently less than a day before — allowed into the stadium to be treated by fans like royal guests?  That says so very much about the UNC athletics department and quite honestly, Carolina fans too.  After all, would you want your smiling kid to have his picture taken with one or more of the three players who basically sent your team into serious sanctions?

UNC Scandal

69 Responses to Breaking Lies: Austin, Little & Quinn permanently ineligible [11:40 Update & Commentary]

  1. old13 10/11/2010 at 4:49 PM #

    ^ As I understand it, there are two groups within the NCAA involved in this – the player eligibility group and the investigations group. The player eligibility group is who acted concerning Austin, et al, and will also act accordingly concerning other players still withheld for other than the tutor prong. The investigations group will probably not act until the entire investigation is completed, at least, that’s my understanding from several readings.

  2. NCSU88 10/11/2010 at 4:54 PM #

    On honoring the scholarships;
    1. Sanctions aside, does that mean that these scholarships are “used up” for the rest of that student’s time at school? Does it count against the total number allowed by the NCAA?

    2. I recall reading, some time ago, an article about injured college athletes losing their scholarships and the hardships that created. The article was saying how they were injured “in the line of duty” and the school was/should be obligated to honor the scholarship. (I completely agree.) Thoughts?

  3. choppack1 10/11/2010 at 4:55 PM #

    Lunatic Fringe – Or UNC could show that they are dealing w/ this proactively and self-impose some sanctions.

    Keep an eye on the UConn situation. I see a lot of similarities in how they are handling its dance w/ the NCAA and how UNC and Baddour are handling theirs.

    They self-imposed on themselves a 2 year probation period and reduced a single scholarship for 2 years. They are disputing the accusation that Calhoun failed to create an atmosphere of compliance.

    The violations in the UConn case are that a former manager gave a player (who never actually played for UConn) improper benefits:

    “The NCAA and the school have been investigating the program since shortly after a report by Yahoo! Sports in March 2009 that former team manager Josh Nochimson helped guide Miles to Connecticut, giving him lodging, transportation, meals and representation.

    As a former team manager, Nochimson is considered a representative of UConn’s athletic interests by the NCAA and prohibited from having contact with Miles or giving him anything of value.”

    In addition:
    “In a report released Friday, the school acknowledges its basketball staff made impermissible telephone calls and text messages as cited by the NCAA in a May report that followed a 15-month investigation. It also admits it improperly provided free game tickets to high school coaches and others.”

    Here’s the link:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=5662321

    I see a lot of parallels here to the UNC situation – you’ve got a school that says they “cooperated” w/ investigation, but you’ve got former players and the ex-manager who did NOT cooperate, and you’ve got the school saying, “It’s not the coach’s fault.” IE – UConn is saying there was no LOIC.

    Finally, UConn is giving themselves very MINOR punishment. (Keep in mind, most basketball rarely use their allotment EVERY year.) When UNC does finally decide to punish themselves, I think we’ll all be disappointed (but not surprised) at how “minor” the punishment is.

    So it will be very interesting to see how the NCAA handles UConn.

  4. 89BSBA 10/11/2010 at 5:10 PM #

    NCSU88 – I suspect that the reason the scholarships are being honoroed is that it costs them nothing to do so. Austin was in his final year of eligibility, as was Little. (Or would have been).

    Quinn was only a Jr, with two full years of eligibility left, so that one may hurt. _IF_ they honor it beynd this year.

    It’s not as if they could go get players today to suit up for this season to replace those schollies.

    Bascially, they’re half-way through fall semester, so all they’re giving up is 1 semester (3? for Quinn?) of schollies.

    It’s a good move, publicity-wise, for future recruits, especially given the “waiver-wire” that was run over there for several years.

  5. TAEdisonHokie 10/11/2010 at 5:32 PM #

    choppack1 – This is the first time UConn has ever received a letter from the NCAA accusing the school of major violations. UConn is attempting to give itself a relatively minor punishment, and claiming they never lost institutional control. Under the new NCAA management, I personally believe UConn is going to be greatly disappointed by the NCAA’s final ruling.

    There is a lot here that UConn is hoping the NCAA will ignore:

    http://www.statesman.com/sports/connecticut-admits-violations-in-mens-basketball-961180.html

    Keep in mind that the NCAA has piled up a mountain of evidence against UNC’s football program, far more than they have acquired against UConn. That evidence may now be including additional UNC athletic programs. Don’t forget the UNC investigation is looking at current players and coaches, in addition to past players. That’s not exactly a glowing reference for outstanding institutional control.

  6. MatSci94 10/11/2010 at 5:44 PM #

    On the scholarship issue, what I heard on the radio, Badour said something like “…provided they make progress toward their degree” and implied that they need to stay out of further trouble. It made me wonder if they were just dancing around again, knowing that they would not make progress this sememster, and so they could pull the scholarship then, but not have to be the bad guy right now.

    I also wonder if Badour is simply running his mouth to keep all the focus on the football program, hoping no one looks any deeper anywhere else.

  7. bradleyb123 10/11/2010 at 5:51 PM #

    I think Carolina honoring their scholarships amounts to nothing more than HUSH MONEY. They did it with Blake, and scholarship money is the only money they can legally give to these players.

    I think UNC wants a few people to keep their mouths shut.

  8. whope90 10/11/2010 at 5:55 PM #

    I am confused? You have a university that has had 12-13 players uspended, now three are ruled inelgible, then you go back and a associate head coach resigns whom previously cheated at Oklahoma, and now you have a athletic director, and a chancelor and the acc commish supporting the current head coach???? Wait a minute,what in the heck is going on here?? If this was nc state, they would be literally burning our school down, but oh no not a UNC: university of no conscience!!! I mean, this is not only bad for the school but the ACC as a whole and this should also take victories from the previous season these inelgible players played!! I hope that back to back 8-5 records were worth this UNC students and faculty and players and fans because this is what you deserve. Wonder what old’ pretty boy comish swofford is going to do now?? And what about that tutor??? Are we sure that this isn’t including the men’s basketball team as well?? Oh, but old Roy said “”no!!, Well, that is enough for me!! If the tutor helped one player he helped several and the NCAA needs to check into that,but what bothers me is that Butch Davis is still the head coach and i only see Carlton Tudor ask for him to be fired!! Man, State is 5-1 and 2-1 in the ACC and UNC is well, the MIAMI of the ACC. Hey, we don’t need to play them right?? I mean is it not a forfeit already? Can we go ahead and count it now?:6-1 3-1 in the acc. Imagine, we beat a cheating team with the best players money can buy!! It is not a program on fire it is a hell on earth and if that university has any self dignity left they should not only fire the entire staff but the AD as well and the ACC c no matter what he bleeds should come down hard on the heels!!
    It is a shame and a disgrace!!! As bad as the bk game scandals of the late fifties. Wait it is worse!!Well until old florida state joined the league thanks to that old comish Swofford!! Hey, can he be fired too???

  9. whope90 10/11/2010 at 6:01 PM #

    I mean how much is back to back 8-5 records worth these days?
    This, i would rather take 5-7 honest then 8-5 cheating!! I mean if you are going to cheat Butch, at least win a BCS game so it can be taken away from you!!!
    Imagine what John Bunting is thinking right now?? I mean, he did not cheat, but UNC and their arrogance wanted to win so bad did they not?? What price is winning when all you do is pay for it??? I hope the academic tutor scandal leads to the UNC men’s program because for years professors at that school have streamlined players thru their academic careers in order for them to graduate. Really, just do some searching because UNC men’s basketball leads the world in B.A. degrees in communications. Coincidence?
    I think not!!!!

  10. whope90 10/11/2010 at 6:03 PM #

    But hey old ad, they,the cheaters will always be tarheels???
    I mean what arrogance!! I mean to take a 50.00 bill is one thing but streamlining money and to say that they are forgiven is so arrogant!!! I hope somewhere somehow Matt D is laughing his butt off!!! LOL,

  11. Lunatic Fringe 10/11/2010 at 6:53 PM #

    The NCAA has set the standard with the USC case. The NCAA must hold UNC to that standard or risk a LOT of backlash. I do believe there is reason to believe that the NCAA is going to actually start punishing more harshly in the near future.

    Keep in mind that there is a new sheriff in town, new NCAA head Mark Emmert. He has stepped in during a pretty bad mess where NCAA looks overwhelmed by issues.

    Look at all the issues just in the past year or so: USC, South Carolina, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, UCONN, Tennessee, Memphis, and UNC many with some shady dealings involving agents or agent-like people.

    IF I were the new NCAA head I would use discipline as an early calling card, similar to what Goodell did with the NFL, to stamp out the issue from the start and show that the NCAA now means business. UCONN would be my first example and it is why I think they are in for a rude awakening.

  12. IamGumbyDammit 10/11/2010 at 9:02 PM #

    I have an issue with this concept of a player being suspended for a year and then allowed to use that year as a redshirt year if he hasn’t redshirted already. Under that punishment scheme, a player hasn’t really LOST anything – still given four years of eligibility. But then, we ARE talking about the Carolina Way…

  13. rtpack24 10/11/2010 at 9:29 PM #

    Interestiing article concerning Peppers return to Charlotte last Sun. Stated in the article his former academic advisor while he was at UNC is now his agent. Hopefully, this will get some more coverage.

  14. IamGumbyDammit 10/11/2010 at 9:42 PM #

    Here is a question (or two or three) – the articles stated that Quinn and Little lied and denied on three different occasions and finally ‘fessed up when confronted with the evidence to the contrary. Now, one would assume the gifts of jewelry were part of this “evidence to the contrary.” But since there isn’t usually a paper trail on a jewelry gift like with travel, how did the NCAA know about those gifts? Someone MUST be singing like a canary… someone close enough to the players to know about these gifts. One of the other players currently under suspension? The one that gave the gifts? And WHO gave these gifts, by the way? And will the made-for-tv-movie about this be shown on ESPN?

  15. Wufpacker 10/12/2010 at 6:56 AM #

    ^ “And will the made-for-tv-movie about this be shown on ESPN?”

    Yes. And produced by Nike.

    And regarding Quinn and Little and the fact that they lied to investigators on three different occasions and only told the truth when confronted with the evidence? Knowing all that, the PTB at UNC-CHeat have decided that they can remain on scholarship?

    Seriously?

    This is the example you want to send? This is how you want folks to see your university? This is “The Carolina Way”?

    Just when I think I can’t be amazed by this whole thing any further, I find I am wrong. And I promise you that their scholarships will in no way impact against future numbers. Their ‘ships will be transferred to some other status but they will NOT be counted toward the FB program total (or any other athletic program for that matter).

    And they won’t be on the taxpayer’s dime for too long so don’t worry. Without all the academic “perks” they’ve been getting so far there’s no way in hell they’ll remain in school, let alone on scholarship.

    Thorp and Baddour are counting on exactly that. Either they don’t want to look like the bad guys or they are keeping someone quiet (more likely) like player or parents. But they don’t care because those schollies will not be used for very long regardless.

    I’ve long hated Carolina for the normal rivalry reasons. They’ve always been a fun target for jokes. I have long enjoyed taking a strong dislike to anything “Carolina”. Now, that has changed. I no longer dislike them. I no longer hate them.

    Now…I am disgusted by them. What a cesspool.

  16. highstick 10/12/2010 at 7:49 AM #

    I reached your degree of disgust long ago Wufpacker…It’s one of those things that you “feel down deep in your gut” is going on…That feeling has been there a long time because of some factual information obtained over the years by former players and students, but wouldn’t hold water in a courtroom..

    My gut is still telling me that there is more to come…Their programs didn’t get dirty with the hiring of Chief and Black Santa…The dirty “air” was their before, but their arrogance finally drew too much attention and since the NCAA has a new “Chief”, we’ll see which Indian is left standing!

  17. PackerInRussia 10/12/2010 at 7:59 AM #

    “It’s a sad day when three young men are no longer able to represent their school based on actions they have taken and decisions they have made contrary to NCAA rules. Unfortunately, they made serious mistakes in judgment in accepting extra benefits and then not being truthful with our staff and NCAA representatives. Now they must forfeit the privilege of playing again for the Tar Heels,” Baddour said in a statement.”

    Let’s be clear on this guys. The real tragedy is not that these three young men have done something ethically wrong and that they broke all of these rules. The real tragedy and perhaps the greatest tragedy that anyone could experience is the fact that they will no longer have the privilege of playing for the Tar Heels. Many a tear will be shed across the land on behalf of these fine young men. A sad day indeed.

  18. Rick 10/12/2010 at 8:42 AM #

    “So, people associated with Chapel Hill thought they could just lie their way through everything and that nothing would come of it”

    I wonder if they thought they could get away with it or they knew it was so bad, the only option they had was to lie and hope the real bad stuff is not uncovered.

    In other words, it might have been their only option.

  19. Wufpacker 10/12/2010 at 9:04 AM #

    ‘Stick:

    I’ve long believed “The Carolina Way” was a farce as well. Nobody is that good at that many things without at least a little dirt. Frankly, though I hated the fact that they were getting away with things (or at least I believe they were getting away with things, and have done so for longer than just a few years) I honestly never was very disgusted by it. In fact, if I’m being honest I have to say that I figured if they could get that sort of advantage and not use it then they would be crazy. And it fueled the rivalry for it to be an “us against them” sort of thing.

    I figured it was mostly a look the other way type of deal and most of it, if not all of it, was probably minor. I figured it was more of a joke that they thought they were so clean than anything. I really didn’t think it was much more than that, but it was always fun to try to get their goats (no pun intended) because they thought they were so clean. Or maybe they thought they were untouchable, some of them anyway. There is a difference, of course.

    But that was before. Before we found out just how dirty they were (are). Before we found out the depths to which they would sink.

    Honestly, a few rogue players could happen anywhere. An agent making improper contact could happen anywhere. Even an overzealous booster giving players benefits (a la Uncle Sam at UCLA) could happen anywhere.

    But this is more than that. This is ALL of that more than likely, with the extra added bonus of a coach (probably more than one from the looks of it), an athletic director and an administration that is so intent on covering their asses that they are doing nothing more than jumping into the slop with the pigs. Frankly, it’s abhorrent the way Thorp and Baddour have handled themselves here and there’s only one explanation. They’ve got something to lose when the truth comes out.

    I want Carolina to fry, quite frankly. I THOUGHT it was because they were Carolina and I’d get some perverse enjoyment out of it, and I’m sure I still will to a degree. But that’s only a small part of it now. Mostly, I want them to fry because they DESERVE it.

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