The NC State-UNC Rivalry and Why We Care About UNC’s Problems

Big Four Rivals General UNC Scandal36

This post was written before the UCF game but due to scheduling SFN decided it best to move the publish date to September 20.  Enjoy.

During the course of the UNC fiasco, it’s been asked by NC State fans and Carolina fans alike why Wolfpackers are concerning themselves with the Tar Heels’ problems.  So far, either we haven’t been dignifying the nay-sayers with a response or we simply don’t have a firm handle on it ourselves.  Either way, as football season kicks up, NC State has more to talk about than just a powder-puff opponent (like WCU last week), and questions still arise as to why NC State is pursuing the allegations over the hill so aggressively, it’s time to look back on why the Wolfpack even cares about Carolina.

We all know about the Jimmy Valvano “scandal” (you know… the one where Valvano was found not to be guilty of his most serious allegations and he got boned anyway) and how the media immediately jumped on the coach during the onset of the investigation.  But I think it’s important for State fans and Tar Heel fans alike to understand that this isn’t only a 20 year grudge (even though for many that is a big part of it).

Like it or not, whether Carolina wants to admit it or not, University of North Carolina and North Carolina State University have been rivals ever since the North Carolina General Assembly, composed of a large number of UNC-CH alumni, refused to give any money to the new Land Grant college as many other states did to their respective Land Grant institutions.  It’s also worth mentioning that Land Grant funding was originally being given to the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, but somehow disappeared once it came time to establish a “partner” institution. The rivalry between the Tar Heels and Wolfpack isn’t just athletics, it’s foundational to who we are.

Athletically, this rivalry has gone back since our first UNC-NC State football game on October 12, 1894 and our first basketball game in the 1910’s (compared to the UNC-DUKE rivalry that started in the mid-1920’s in both sports).  It’s difficult to read too much into the series history between NC State and UNC (142-75 UNC in basketball and 63-30-6 UNC in football) since Carolina has had a longer established tradition athletically than NC State and since the nature of athletics was completely different prior to the establishment of conferences (the Southern Conference starting in 1921), but one thing can’t be denied: in the lifetime of the newest generation of Pack fans, UNC has enjoyed the reputation of “the more successful school” for most of the last 20 years.

Actually, there is only a short period of time from around 2000-01 – 2003-04 that NC State was generally more “successful” than UNC in both football and basketball.  No wonder many of the (a) younger and (b) dumber Carolina fans don’t recognize NC State as their rivals.  During this time span, NC State split 4-4 with UNC in basketball and dominated Carolina 3-1 in football.  In other words, during Carolina’s worst basketball performance (thank you Doherty), we still only split with UNC.  Much of this is agreeably due to the Jimmy Valvano fiasco, but at the end of the day, the record doesn’t care why someone lost… only that they lost.

So why does NC State care about Carolina and their troubles?  Aside from the already discussed massive recruiting/performance implications the fall-out in Chapel Hill could produce for the Wolfpack, it’s also about the same thing every rivalry is about: bragging rights.  What NC State has experienced in the past 20 years has been two decades (spare a few years) of bragging by Carolina on how superior their teams and athletic program are to NC State.  The past 100 years we have dealt with piss-poor treatment from UNC Chapel Hill as an institution.  Why does this matter to NC State fans?  If you speak to the student/alumni, it’s institutional payback and a ‘settling of the score’ for watching Carolina treat NC State like the ‘lesser hick school in west Raleigh’.  If you speak to the sports fan, it is payback for the arrogant chest-beating that Tar Heels have thrown in State fans’ faces since the downfall of our basketball program and resulting downfall of our athletic program in general.

Bottom line: this isn’t about gloating or being “mean”.  It’s definitely not about any kind of ill-conceived notion of “Carolina Envy”.  This is about poetic justice, the disrespect Carolina has treated NC State with over the years, and showing Carolina how it feels to be treated like NC State.  Personally, I fully intend on being generous enough to give Carolina all of the “NC State experience” they deserve.

About NCStatePride

***ABOUT THE AUTHOR: NCStatePride has been writing for StateFansNation.com since 2010 and is a 2009 graduate of the College of Engineering.

Big Four Rivals General UNC Scandal

36 Responses to The NC State-UNC Rivalry and Why We Care About UNC’s Problems

  1. StateFans 09/10/2010 at 11:15 AM #

    Not to mention we compete in the same conference and it is supposed to be level playing field.

  2. highstick 09/15/2010 at 10:25 AM #

    There are a multitude of other reasons too and they only have to “look in the mirror” to figure those out…if they are smart enough!

  3. wufpup76 09/20/2010 at 5:58 AM #

    I don’t think there’s any need to defend, justify, rationalize or explain why State fans (or any other interested party) have keen interests as to the goings on at the Hole.

    Any question or narcissitic barb thrown out by Hole defenders simply boils down to vain attempts at deflection of the HUGE SPOTLIGHT shining on the Hole right now.

    It’s they who need to answer questions and attempt justifications, not State fans (nor anyone else).

    Please note that this is not a knock on this article (which I enjoyed), I’m just expressing a point of view.

  4. El Lobo Loco! 09/20/2010 at 6:12 AM #

    Not to mention that this will be ignored and at worst diminished by the media which is dominated by baby-blue journolists.

  5. graywolf 09/20/2010 at 6:44 AM #

    As an alumnus I could not agree more! We must keep this on the front burner via internet because it will be on the back burner and swept under the rug by the media and politicians given the chance.

  6. tuckerdorm1983 09/20/2010 at 7:06 AM #

    why do we hate those bastards? I went to both schools. NCSU 1987, UNC 1990 and then UNC again 1994. UNC academic wise is a great school. I am very proud to be from North Carolina and have gone there. Other than UVA and UCLA they are the top of the top in public universities.

    On the other hand, since the third grade I have had to put up with UNC fans and their crap. They are smug and arrogant thanks to Dean Smith and his winning tradition. I have lived in North Carolina my whole life and they are a bunch of fair weather assholes. Two years ago we gave them a smack down in football in their own stadium and two-thirds of the fans left early in the 4th quarter. I pull for the underdog and they are never the underdog in basketball when every year they get 3 or 4 of the top ten players in the nation. Come on.

    It boils down to this “they know no humility” It brings joy to my heart to see them lose.

  7. packplantpath 09/20/2010 at 7:22 AM #

    Only complaint, drop the “social justice” part at the end. That’s a bit over the top to me, since it conjures up images of things waaaaay more serious than a college rivalry.

  8. blpack 09/20/2010 at 7:33 AM #

    It is a rivalry. Thanks to SFN for helping to shine a light into a dark world over the hill. May they get what’s coming to them.

  9. packof81 09/20/2010 at 8:07 AM #

    A coworker had a Whitman Sampler styled wall hanging that said NC State was created to correct the Chapel Hill mistake. That is literally true. At the time NC State was founded, it was believed that the school on the hill was too big for it’s britches. Thus the ensuing tug of war over funding. NC State has already done more for the citizens of NC than the arrogant school on the hill ever will.

  10. Scooter 09/20/2010 at 8:28 AM #

    AMEN. I hope their penance for the “current unpleasantness” lasts long enough for UNC to experience just what NC State went through the last 20 years. I hope their suffering makes up for all of the hell the dedicated State fans have been through in the same timeframe.

  11. coach13 09/20/2010 at 8:31 AM #

    1-My opinion NC State is, defines and best represents the State of North Carolina. UNC is an elitest snob factory that does not fit the people of NC. It just doesn’t seem like a local college to me. More like a foreign object that thinks it landed in the wrong hick state.

    2-Secondly, unballanced media coverage really pisses me off. I hope the university burns bad for their corruption.

  12. packplantpath 09/20/2010 at 8:34 AM #

    packof81, the story one of my history professors told was similar. UNC was initially given the land grand funding from the Federal government. Part of the mandate that came with it was to do soil and fertilizer testing for the farmers in the state.

    The job of doing the testing fell to a UNC chemistry professor. However, he felt it was a waste of his skills and refused to do the work, while also accepting the money. Hence, NC State was created to fix the UNC mistake.

    I do, however, wish I could find a citation for this story.

  13. NCStatePride 09/20/2010 at 8:50 AM #

    PackPlantPath, I am privy to the same story (from the dual UNC-NCSU english prof) but failed to find a reference… which didn’t surprise me as many authors of NC historical narratives are UNC grads, from the little research I did. I did, however, find the references to money originally being granted to UNC and disappearing when they founded NC State, as referenced in my blog post above.

    If ANYONE can find a reference, PLEASE contact me.

    (Posted from mobile; please forgive typos.)

  14. 70wolf 09/20/2010 at 8:51 AM #

    Please do not call this “social justice” you’ll make me vomit. This is vengance pure and simple and lets not be ashamed of it. The arrogance that is Chapel Hill needs to be taken down a notch and being embarassed on a national stage is just what they need.

  15. Silver Wolf 09/20/2010 at 9:04 AM #

    Having been a student @ NCSU during the early 70’s, I would like to point out to you younger fans that the Pack was very successful against the Tarholes in basketball and certainly held our own against them in football while I was a student. If my memory serves me correctly, the Norm Sloan coached teams (we only lost 1 game in the ’73 & ’74 seasons combined and only 7 in ’75) and which had Tommy Burleson, David Thompson, Monte Towe, Phil Spence, Tim Stoddard, Mo Rivers, et al, beat the Dean Smith coached Holes 10 consecutive times. During that time frame State also had a football coach named Lou Holtz that more than held it’s own against the Holes and he was followed by Bo Rein who was equally successful against them. Both sports were consistently ranked in the Top 20. This was before they expanded the polls to 25 teams. The Pack was going to bowl games every year, before there was a plethora of bowl gamees and were in the NCAA tournament every year before they expanded the tournament to 64 teams and you had to actually win your conference championship to be invited.

    Having been a part of that perid of success against them, and athletices in general, is the single most inportant reason I am today considered one of the “lunatic fringe fans” that not only hopes the Pack competes at the highest level but actually expects them to be in a contender for conference and/or national champion honors EVERY year. If the coach and AD are not getting the job done then part ways with them and find a coach that can and does get it done!!!!!

  16. WULF 09/20/2010 at 9:09 AM #

    I’ve been looking at this from the angle that SFN and Wolfpack Nation are watchdogs to ensure that this thing doesn’t get swept under the rug. Over the years, I’ve seen many things get swept under the rug in Chapel Hill and this is far too big and important to let slip by.

    Stay on them, SFN.

  17. Sweet jumper 09/20/2010 at 9:42 AM #

    I heard that Silverwolf. My father attended State in the early to mid 1950’s and he reminds me that the bball teams of Everett Case dominated UNX and the rest of the ACC and the old Southern Conf. for many years.

  18. gso packbacker 09/20/2010 at 10:08 AM #

    one word, Karma

  19. albunde6 09/20/2010 at 10:43 AM #

    UNX 1984 Granville Towers, “We can’t lose to State, it would ruin my Senior year.” This was UNX student and friend at the time. It has stayed with me for 20 plus years. It is an attitude, mindset, expectation that they should win. Without severe penalty from NCAA, nothing will change.

  20. BJD95 09/20/2010 at 11:33 AM #

    I think we do ourselves and the entire state of North Carolina a disservice if we castigate the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill as a whole.

    Do I hate the arrogant, baseless in reality “Carolina Way” attitude that Bill Friday and other elitists propagate? Absolutely. Do I enjoy watching them start 0-2 in football? Absolutely. Do I think that their football program deserves the scrutiny and criticism it is getting? Absolutely. Does my skin crawl at the mere thought of the legions of “Wal Mart Fan Nation?” Absolutely.

    But I have many UNC friends who don’t fit the stereotypes, and are friendly rivals regarding sports. I acknowledge the vast contributions that the university provides to our state (as do the sane majority of UNC alums re NC State). When my family members have needed the advice and care of UNC Hospitals, I couldn’t have been more pleased (despite the wall color). And I am proud to contribute money to the UNC School of Law, which gave me an excellent, affordable legal education, and provided me with excellent resources and support to find a good job.

    So, let’s focus the anger and criticism where it belongs, and not get carried away with generalizations. Let’s not lower ourselves to the level of the Wal-Marters.

  21. NCStatePride 09/20/2010 at 11:34 AM #

    By the way, the ‘social justice’ part at the end may sound fanatical, but there are two good reasons for it:

    1) There is a real passion in this rivalry. To eliminate the more heated feelings in this tradition between NCSU and UNC is to delete a major part of its history. Many schools have the amiable rivals. IMHO, we don’t.

    2) We are the lunatic fringe.

  22. waxhaw 09/20/2010 at 11:55 AM #

    There are a few who don’t care. There are obviously a lot more who do, which is proven by the site traffic over the last month.

    Personally, I’m sick of hearing how UNC-CHeats does things the right way and NC State cheats because of Shackleford and Valvano.

    If I had to guess, I’d bet that UNC-CHeats wishes all they were dealing with was a couple of shoes and comped tickets being sold.

  23. RednWhite17 09/20/2010 at 12:27 PM #

    Translation for the entire article:

    Payback’s a b!tch…

  24. packgirl1 09/20/2010 at 1:16 PM #

    I believe the bandwagoners are worse than alumni from UNC. I have had random people say terrible things about my children wearing State hats or clothes. I have responded by asking them when they graduated from UNC and tell them my husband and I went to State they usually have no response. I have friends that went to Carolina and they are not nearly as annoying as the loudmouth bandwagoners. State has true fans that stick by them through good and bad. (some years are worse than others)State fans most of the time have an affiliation to the school unstead of just who is winning.
    I have seen a definant decline in the number of Carolina shirts lately.

  25. Phang 09/20/2010 at 1:31 PM #

    I’ve worn a NCSU shirt every day for the last seven days (no, not the same shirt…)

    At some point I may pull out the Cardiac Pack t-shirt I’ve had lovingly stored away in a plastic bag lo these many years.

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