Helpful hints for Elaine Marshall [Update @ 2pm EST]

Big Four Rivals UNC Scandal50

As it becomes more evident that the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill’s athletics department is in a huge pile of stink, more and more agents are being blamed and scapegoated by UNC-CH partisans who truly believe that God created the sky after he created the color ‘Carolina Blue’. 

In today’s News and Observer, North Carolina Secretary of State, Elaine Marshall is touted her office’s “expertise” and ability to investigate agents.  Boy, we hope she is right. 

Just this morning, USA Today had a short piece with a quote from agent Ralph Cindrich responding to Nick Saban’s recent comments comparing agents to “pimps.”

“In terms of him throwing that out there, most agents know what goes on in college programs and what programs are clean or not. You want to find out who has the dirty programs, give immunity and go off the record with agents, and it would be like a cockfight, the last one standing wins. There are ways to determine the truth of allegations out there.”

That is a super idea!! Can Marshall and the State of North Carolina give this immunity and go off the record with agents as part of her investigation?

One would think that this idea would serve to benefit a process that is committed to finding the truth…if finding the whole truth was genuinely the goal of the investigation. Unfortunately, Elaine Marshall’s own words indicate that she is not interested in allowing the evidence to guide her to the truth; unfortunately, she has already tainted the sanctity of this investigation before it has gotten started.

In the last two days, Marshall commented

“We’ll be investigating the agents,” Marshall said said. “We will not be investigating the school.”

Gee. How re-assuring is that! Marshall has pre-ordained where the investigation will go, regardless of where the evidence may or may not lead. That has got to make you feel good!

How can any investigation be designed to genuinely seek the comprehensive truth about an issue if potential parties to the investigation are deemed off limits before the first piece of evidence is collected? How can Marshall or her investigation have one ounce of credibility if it is rigged before it begins that potential parties to the problem won’t be investigated? And we thought the US Congress was bad? At least they are actually going to try Charlie Rangel.

The Greensboro News and Record recently explained that the ongoing NCAA investigation into UNC-CH’s football program was “focused on improper contact between sports agents and members of the Tar Heels’ football team, according to a report from ESPN.com.”  Later in that article the News and Record touched on the relationship between Kentwan Balmer, Marvin Austin, and sports agent Gary Wichard:

ESPN.com reported that Austin was asked about having been seen driving the car of former Tar Heels defensive tackle Kentwan Balmer, a first-round pick in the 2008 NFL draft. Balmer was a senior at North Carolina when Austin was a freshman.

[snip]

Balmer’s agent, Gary Wichard of California-based Pro Tect Management, told The Charlotte Observer by phone Friday that he has never met with Austin.

[snip]

“I’ve never talked to him about representing him,” Wichard said. “I’ve never gone down there, and I never will.”

It is interesting that Gary Wichard and UNC-CH coach John Blake reportedly have (or have had) some kind of relationship.  In talking about the Austin/Balmer car episode, the National Football Post explains:  

“Balmer is represented by Gary Wichard, a longtime friend of Carolina defensive line coach John Blake.”

In what looks like a repost of this same article, Yahoo Sports had this line slightly different:

“Balmer is represented by Gary Wichard, who also represents North Carolina defensive line coach John Blake.”

What does that mean?  Is any of that even true?  We don’t know!  What is the actual relationship between Wichard and Blake, if there is one?  We have no idea!  But these might be excellent things for Marshall to look into given everything that is out there. 

Others across the country have commented on what appears to be a long standing relationship between Wichard and Blake and how it may fit in the context of the current UNC-CH scandal. This article from earlier in the week is must read, and isn’t complimentary to either party.

Wichard is with “Pro Tect Management.”  His website is here if you want to check it out.  Check out the name — nothingbutfreaks.com.  How cool! 

Big Four Rivals UNC Scandal

50 Responses to Helpful hints for Elaine Marshall [Update @ 2pm EST]

  1. wbnation 07/23/2010 at 3:57 PM #

    pack1910
    “wbnation, the point I am trying to make is that we can’t expect to find out the whole truth from Marshall’s investigation for political reasons, and that to expect differently is naive.”

    if her office investigates and finds that there are shady things going on with Agents that might be illegal she will kick it to the AG’s office. Nothing political damning or helpful about that. The truth will come from the AG’s office not Marshalls anyway. Her office will just look to see if there is enough smoke with these Agents and the AG will find the fire. The SOS office is a business law agency not criminal law agency. She gains nor loses anything for going after bad business behavoir in this state. Actually its her job. We have to stop looking through the prism of both political motives and pro carolina motives because its making us envision conspiracies that just might not be there.

    Not trying to argue your point, but as a State fan I also can believe that the powers that be don’t want anything to come from this. But I also realize that that just may be from years of watching how State is portrayed in the media and how the school was railroaded under V. But we can’t let that blind us to the fact that there actually might be good people with good motives running around trying to find the truth and fix the Agent-Player problem. Its not anymore naive to believe this than it is to believe that the whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed. Conspiracy theories aren’t really any less naive. I’m sure no one in California thought the NCAA would bring the hammer down on USC…but they did their diligent work and got as close as they could to the truth. Let this play out before we start pointing at this person or that person for not doing their jobs or using offices for political motives.

  2. PackMagic83 07/23/2010 at 3:59 PM #

    There is a Federal law to address misconduct by agents and the state’s Attorney Generals are given authority to pursue legal actions against agents. i’m not a lawyer, but there has been a lot of information on the web lately.

    See http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/22/AR2010072205898.html

    Also: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h108-361&tab=summary
    which states “Authorizes civil actions by State attorneys general.”

    I’ve seen a lot of speculation on this blog about why the NC Attorney General is getting involved and while I don’t know anything about the motivation, at least there is the legal authority to get involved.

  3. rtpack24 07/23/2010 at 4:52 PM #

    To quote “Deep Throat” from Watergate, “follow the money”!

  4. tuckerdorm1983 07/23/2010 at 6:13 PM #

    while it is all good and fun to chase down these idiots, the bottom line is this:

    WHAT PENALTIES (IF ANY) WILL THE NCAA HAND OUT.

    Until I see some stiff penalties and not a game or two suspension you all can wax eloquent until the cows come home. It don’t mean S*** sideways. Until at least Marvin “Cupcake” Austin and his gang are out for the season, until Butchy is banned from post game play for promoting an atmosphere of taking agent’s money, until UNX loses scholarships it ain’t nothing. If MA gets a game suspension against ELON and the rest is swept under the rug. REMEMBER the NCAA fellow that is investigating Butchy is his buddy pal. I am afraid you fellows are gonna be crying come Sept when all these gangsters are playing at UNC and whipping everybody. Don’t say I didn’t warn you about an inside job.

  5. wbnation 07/23/2010 at 6:21 PM #

    “Sept when all these gangsters are playing at UNC and whipping everybody. Don’t say I didn’t warn you about an inside job.”

    and the gov’t brought down the twin towers…………more conspiracy speculation. This definitely helps the image of NC State fans.

  6. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 6:39 PM #

    “Its not anymore naive to believe this than it is to believe that the whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed. Conspiracy theories aren’t really any less naive.”

    I understand where you’re coming from here. But there are a few issues that some folks don’t realize, don’t understand, or just choose to ignore.

    First of all, neither I, nor most folks (at least I hope this is true) who believe in what I KNOW exists (lets call it bias instead of conspiracies…conspiracy is an ugly word, don’t you think?) don’t think the “….whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed”.

    If the above quoted statement was true, it would be easy to root out. Too many folks, someone would roll over to save themselves. No, that’s not the problem. The problem is that there aren’t many folks that would intentionally do this, but the ones that would, and are in the proper place to do so, have very FEW co-conspirators (I know I used the ugly word, but I didn’t know how else to state it clearly). A conspiracy, by definition, is much easier to perpetrate, control, and if necessary, cover up, when there are few, rather than many, co-conspirators. Just ask Nixon.

    Now, we’re not talking about things that most people even care about. College athletics. Not national defense. Not the financial industry. Not politics. The laws of averages and human nature dictate that this will happen only infrequently. This is so whether the scale is large, like national defense, or small, like college athletics. This makes the sample size smaller, therefore the ability to display evidence to folks that don’t believe will be more difficult.

    Most of those that do care are made to feel silly if they believe such things as I’ve said here. That is easy to do because if those few that have the desire, and are placed correctly, to exert such “biases” are not immediately visible, it takes someone on the inside who either doesn’t care about their own well-being, or is placed above the individuals in question, to bring the issue in question to light. Most folks who are placed correctly, and could therefore exert such “influence”, don’t HAVE many, if any, people above them. For those reasons (not important to most folks and fairly invisible do-ers) proof becomes even harder to come by.

    Among other things I’m a student of human behavior. Don’t even try to tell that there are not people capable and willing to do these things. And NONE of them are going to voluntarily admit to it, and NONE of them fly around in black helicopters. That’s movie and book crap, and anyone that spews that shit as a so-called “defense” of the “I don’t believe in conspiracies” opinion, is only showing how little they know about human nature and how easy THAT makes it for folks that DO have the desire to exert….their “biases”.

    So yes, some “biases” will be seen eventually if the necessary circumstances make it happen. Most will not be.

    Now, if it makes some of you sleep better at night to believe that no one would stoop so low as to intentionally fix college sports (“fix” is a strong word, I realize), then by all means do whatever you have to do to forget what I’ve said here.

    Some of you KNOW better, however.

  7. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 6:45 PM #

    “Its not anymore naive to believe this than it is to believe that the whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed. Conspiracy theories aren’t really any less naive.”

    I understand where you’re coming from here. But there are a few issues that some folks don’t realize, don’t understand, or just choose to ignore.

    First of all, neither I, nor most folks (at least I hope this is true) who believe in what I KNOW exists (lets call it bias instead of conspiracies…conspiracy is an ugly word, don’t you think?) don’t think the “….whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed”.

    If the above quoted statement was true, it would be easy to root out. Too many folks, someone would roll over to save themselves. No, that’s not the problem. The problem is that there aren’t many folks that would intentionally do this, but the ones that would, and are in the proper place to do so, have very FEW co-conspirators (I know I used the ugly word, but I didn’t know how else to state it clearly). A conspiracy, by definition, is much easier to perpetrate, control, and if necessary, cover up, when there are few, rather than many, co-conspirators. Just ask Nixon.

    Now, we’re not talking about things that most people even care about. College athletics. Not national defense. Not the financial industry. Not politics. The laws of averages and human nature dictate that this will happen only infrequently. This is so whether the scale is large, like national defense, or small, like college athletics. This makes the sample size smaller, therefore the ability to display evidence to folks that don’t believe will be more difficult.

    Most of those that do care are made to feel silly if they believe such things as I’ve said here. That is easy to do because if those few that have the desire, and are placed correctly, to exert such “biases” are not immediately visible, it takes someone on the inside who either doesn’t care about their own well-being, or is placed above the individuals in question, to bring the issue in question to light. Most folks who are placed correctly, and could therefore exert such “influence”, don’t HAVE many, if any, people above them. For those reasons (not important to most folks and fairly invisible do-ers) proof becomes even harder to come by.

    Among other things I’m a student of human behavior. Don’t even try to tell that there are not people capable and willing to do these things. And NONE of them are going to voluntarily admit to it, and NONE of them fly around in black helicopters. That’s movie and book crap, and anyone that spews that shit as a so-called “defense” of the “I don’t believe in conspiracies” opinion, is only showing how little they know about human nature and how easy THAT makes it for folks that DO have the desire to exert….their “biases”.

    So yes, some “biases” will be seen eventually if the necessary circumstances make it happen. Most will not be.

    Now, if it makes some of you sleep better at night to believe that no one would stoop so low as to intentionally fix college sports (“fix” is a strong word, I realize), then by all means do whatever you have to do to forget what I’ve said here.

    Some of you KNOW better, however.

    Disclaimer 1: wbnation: I am not intentionally singling you out. Your quote was easiest to access.

    Disclaimer 2: While I believe what I said above whole-heartedly (and I don’t really give a crap if folks in the lower portion of intelligence and the gene pool think this makes state fans look nuts, quite frankly), I also believe there are equally honest folks, that if they knew and could get to the “do-ers” as I referred to them, would do so regardless of their own personal repercussions. Thats the key to why the fewer consirator rule is so important. Plausible deniability is a bitch.

  8. tuckerdorm1983 07/23/2010 at 7:57 PM #

    OK you got me

    -Fluoridation is a plot to by governments to take over the world
    -Aliens visit us regularly ( I saw men in black I and II)
    -Roswell crash and area 51
    -the CIA, the Mob, LBJ and Castro working together had Kennedy killed.
    -of course all moon landings were done in a studio in Hollywood.
    -Elvis, Kurt Cobain, Andy Kaufman, Tupac and Marylin Monroe are all alive with Ameila Earhart and living on an island with Princess Di in charge
    -Lizard people rule the world (reptoids) http://www.reptoids.com/
    OPRAH – Lizard
    OBAMA – Clearly Lizard
    Micheal Jackson – Lizard that likes very young lizards
    Lady GAGA -Lizard, lizard lizard
    Butch Davis- Lizard
    Dean Smith – Head Lizard
    Roy Williams – oh shucks lizard

    NCAA, Communist China and CIA, KGB, MI5, the skull and crossbones and the John Birch Society are all in this to sweep these investigations under the rug

    YOU GOT ME!!!!

  9. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 8:16 PM #

    ^ Outbursts such as that, which are really nothing more than “strawman” arguments, do nothing to improve your argument. Moreover, they tend to convince those, who mostly do not know what a strawman argument is, that yes, of course, it is all very silly and nothing could be going on.

    You’re doing a disservice to yourself, and worse, you’re doing a disservice to others, with those sorts of arguments.

    It’s not an issue that “everyone in the state” wants NCSU to fail and/or for UNC to always succeed. It’s much simpler, and therefore much more difficult to spot, than that.

    If the mods ever see fit to post my recent dissertation on the basics of how people can allow their biases (not conspiracies, necessarily, though sometimes) to affect their decisions and behavior, then maybe you’ll see things differently. Maybe not.

    Hopefully some will understand better, however, how these things can and DO happen, and why they’re rarely recognized by most folks. I did my part.

    And aside from Elvis, I don’t think anyone much believes the rest of those folks are alive, do they?

  10. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 8:32 PM #

    “Its not anymore naive to believe this than it is to believe that the whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed. Conspiracy theories aren’t really any less naive.”

    I understand where you’re coming from here. But there are a few issues that some folks don’t realize, don’t understand, or just choose to ignore.

    First of all, neither I, nor most folks (at least I hope this is true) who believe in what I KNOW exists (lets call it bias instead of conspiracies…conspiracy is an ugly word, don’t you think?) don’t think the “….whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed”.

    If the above quoted statement was true, it would be easy to root out. Too many folks, someone would roll over to save themselves. No, that’s not the problem. The problem is that there aren’t many folks that would intentionally do this, but the ones that would, and are in the proper place to do so, have very FEW co-conspirators (I know I used the ugly word, but I didn’t know how else to state it clearly). A conspiracy, by definition, is much easier to perpetrate, control, and if necessary, cover up, when there are few, rather than many, co-conspirators. Just ask Nixon.

    Now, we’re not talking about things that most people even care about. College athletics. Not national defense. Not the financial industry. Not politics. The laws of averages and human nature dictate that this will happen only infrequently. This is so whether the scale is large, like national defense, or small, like college athletics. This makes the sample size smaller, therefore the ability to display evidence to folks that don’t believe will be more difficult.

    Most of those that do care are made to feel silly if they believe such things as I’ve said here. That is easy to do because if those few that have the desire, and are placed correctly, to exert such “biases” are not immediately visible, it takes someone on the inside who either doesn’t care about their own well-being, or is placed above the individuals in question, to bring the issue in question to light. Most folks who are placed correctly, and could therefore exert such “influence”, don’t HAVE many, if any, people above them. For those reasons (not important to most folks and fairly invisible do-ers) proof becomes even harder to come by.

    Among other things I’m a student of human behavior. Don’t even try to tell that there are not people capable and willing to do these things. And NONE of them are going to voluntarily admit to it, and NONE of them fly around in black helicopters. That’s movie and book crap, and anyone that spews that shit as a so-called “defense” of the “I don’t believe in conspiracies” opinion, is only showing how little they know about human nature and how easy THAT makes it for folks that DO have the desire to exert….their “biases”.

    So yes, some “biases” will be seen eventually if the necessary circumstances make it happen. Most will not be.

    Now, if it makes some of you sleep better at night to believe that no one would stoop so low as to intentionally fix college sports (“fix” is a strong word, I realize), then by all means do whatever you have to do to forget what I’ve said here.

    Some of you KNOW better, however.

    Disclaimer 1: wbnation: I am not intentionally singling you out. Your quote was easiest to access.

    Disclaimer 2: While I believe what I said above whole-heartedly (and I don’t really give a crap if folks in the lower portion of intelligence and the gene pool think this makes state fans look nuts, quite frankly…most of those also have a vested interest in NOT believing the truth), I also believe there are equally honest folks, that if they knew and could get to the “do-ers” as I referred to them, would do so regardless of their own personal repercussions. Thats the key to why the fewer consirator rule is so important. Plausible deniability is a bitch.

    Disclaimer 3: If these statements make ME look crazy, I could not care less. Just remember, looks can be very deceiving.

  11. tuckerdorm1983 07/23/2010 at 8:38 PM #

    enough said

  12. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:07 PM #

    ^ You know, I apologize if anything in my post(s) offends you or comes across as an insult. It is not my intent, I assure you. Again, I sincerely apologize if it did.

    That being said, your reply “enough said” just goes to show that you do not wish to talk rationally. I addressed what is very plainly a strawman argument, and rather than debate that point, you make a comment that is apparently designed to paint me as a fool, without really making a comment on the argument I stated.

    Mama didn’t raise no fools, and folks that understand debate can see thru those methods.

    All that being said, again, I wish to sincerely apologize if I offended you with any of my comments or opinions in general.

  13. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:16 PM #

    tuckerdorm1983:

    First of all, I really am NOT trying to be insulting. If anything came across that way I really am sorry for that.

    I’m confused, though. You seem to be absolutely against the belief that there could be biases at work here, but your post above that, regarding what appears to be a healthy skepticism on your part that UNC will get what they deserve, seem to contradict.

    Am I missing something?

  14. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:20 PM #

    ^Nevermind, I missed a key post from another poster and therefore completely misread your intent of your post. My apologies, sir.

    wbnation, if I am reading correctly now, I guess my comments are really directed in response to you, though I still am seriously NOT trying to be insulting, to you or anyone else.

  15. wbnation 07/23/2010 at 9:24 PM #

    Wufpacker
    so you buy into the notion that if Carolina isn’t put on probation, Butch Davis isn’t fired, 5-10 UNC players aren’t suspended….then its a snow job????

    I am afraid to many people on this site are setting themselves up from the beginning, by placing to much on speculation and trying to adjust that speculation into hard facts that therefor will play into their perceived notions of “carolina bias”. If the NCAA comes back with a finding that Marvin Austin is ineligible and leaves it at that, is it enough for some here? If 2 players are deemed ineligible would that be enough skin? If “black Santa” is fired but the school nor Butch is implicated would that be enough??? I am just stating that folks need to realize that just because we and I included hate the baby blue doesn’t mean that there is some pro-carolina force directing the NCAA and the SOS’s office. (wufpacker)If your comments weren’t directed at me then I retract.

    We can speculate all we want about what has taken place in the “Hole” but what we can’t do is to use that speculation to start blaming the media, Secretary of State, NCAA, and any other entities involved that they are some how carolina homers…..we feel deeply about the hatchet job done by the media on State during the Valvano episode, and how state reacted to the perceptions placed on it by the NCAA and the media….but to argue that we want the same hatchet job done to someone else prid-pro-quo only demeans our arguments to get to the “truth”.

  16. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:38 PM #

    No, not necessarily. BUT (and this is a big but, so listen closely please) I have seen enough with my own eyes, in the whole “Carolina
    Way” bullshit, as well as other “occurences” that have nothing to do with Carolina, State, or anything else to do with the current situation, that I KNOW BEYOND DOUBT, that it can and might happen.

    And if it does, we’ll never hear why or by whom it happened. And it will be just another piece of supposed evidence by folks that think like you do as to why those of us that believe in these sorts of things are following “black helicopters”.

    Its a shame, it sucks, and it angers me when people get away with things they should not get away with. Most of the time we never even have a clue. But frankly, it has happened way too often with NC State getting jobbed, and UNC getting light treatment, for the law of averages to explain it away.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I mean that sincerely. But I’ve just seen too many “interesting” things happen over the years to be convinced otherwise than what I’ve said above. But, as I said in a previous post, these things are fluid and do change over time, both the short term and the long term. I never expected USC would get what they deserved, but they did. I do allow for the fact that UNC MIGHT get what they deserve this time. IF and WHEN that happens, I will change my opinions as the facts change.

    But, I’ll believe ONLY when I see it happen.

  17. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:41 PM #

    No, not necessarily. BUT (and this is a big but, so listen closely please) I have seen enough with my own eyes, in the whole “Carolina
    Way” bullshit, as well as other “occurences” that have nothing to do with Carolina, State, or anything else to do with the current situation, that I KNOW BEYOND DOUBT, that it can and might happen.

    And if it does, we’ll never hear why or by whom it happened. And it will be just another piece of supposed evidence by folks that think like you do as to why those of us that believe in these sorts of things are following “black helicopters”.

    Its a shame, it sucks, and it angers me when people get away with things they should not get away with. Most of the time we never even have a clue. But frankly, it has happened way too often with NC State getting jobbed, and UNC getting light treatment, for the law of averages to explain it away.

    You are entitled to your opinion, and I mean that sincerely. But I’ve just seen too many “interesting” things happen over the years to be convinced otherwise than what I’ve said above. But, as I said in a previous post, these things are fluid and do change over time, both the short term and the long term. I never expected USC would get what they deserved, but they did. I do allow for the fact that UNC MIGHT get what they deserve this time. IF and WHEN that happens, I will change my opinions as the facts change.

    But, I’ll believe ONLY when I see it happen.

    And your arguments for what degree of punishment is appropriate make sense. That is unless you look at what happened 20 years ago to NC State and Jim Valvano, and realize what the offenses were compared to the eventual punishments.

  18. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:45 PM #

    OK, I’m having real problems getting some of my posts up. Let me try again here.

    wbnation, no, I am not saying that if violations and/or punishments are not what WE expect that it HAS to be a snow job, as you put it.

    Only that I’ve seen enough over the years to know it COULD be, and we’ll likely never know the difference.

    Regarding your argument about the degree of violations and/or punishments, what you say makes sense. But when you realize the degree of violations and degree of the resultant punishments from 20 years ago for NC State and Jim Valvano, not so much sense there.

  19. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:48 PM #

    OK, gonna give this one more try from a different browser, guess we’ll see what happens.

    *OK, HOPEFULLY THE 3RD TIME IS THE CHARM. MY BROWSER HAS A BUG OR SOMETHING, I THINK. AFTER A REBOOT, WE’LL GIVE THIS ONE MORE SHOT. IF SUCCESSFUL, MODS PLEASE DISREGARD MY EARLIER REQUEST TO PLEASE MODERATE MY COMMENT AND POST IF APPROPRIATE.

    SOME OF YOU WILL DISMISS WHAT I’VE SAID JUST BY REFLEX AND LIKELY WILL BRAND ME A CONSPIRACY THEORIST. THAT IS JUST FINE BY ME, THOUGH I DO NOT BELIEVE CONSPIRACIES PERVADE US. QUITE THE OPPOSITE, AND THATS WHY THE ONES THAT DO OCCUR USUALLY WORK. AT LEAST THATS ONE OF THE REASONS. READ BELOW FOR THE REST.

    AND FOR WHAT ITS WORTH, I CONSIDER MYSELF A REALIST. I ALSO BELIEVE THAT MOST PEOPLE EITHER WOULD NOT OR COULD NOT DO THESE THINGS. HISTORY, HOWEVER, AND THE STUDY OF HUMAN BEHAVIOR, PROVES THAT SOME DO.

    BELIEVE WHAT YOU WISH, BUT AT LEAST GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO WHAT I’VE SAID BELOW, IF YOU CAN, BEFORE THROWING INSULTS AROUND, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, BEFORE CLOSING YOU OPINIONS OFF FROM REALITY.
    __________________________

    “Its not anymore naive to believe this than it is to believe that the whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed. Conspiracy theories aren’t really any less naive.”

    I understand where you’re coming from here. But there are a few issues that some folks don’t realize, don’t understand, or just choose to ignore.

    First of all, neither I, nor most folks (at least I hope this is true) who believe in what I KNOW exists (lets call it bias instead of conspiracies…conspiracy is an ugly word, don’t you think?) don’t think the “….whole state wants to see NC State fail and wants UNC to always succeed”.

    If the above quoted statement was true, it would be easy to root out. Too many folks, someone would roll over to save themselves. No, that’s not the problem. The problem is that there aren’t many folks that would intentionally do this, but the ones that would, and are in the proper place to do so, have very FEW co-conspirators (I know I used the ugly word, but I didn’t know how else to state it clearly). A conspiracy, by definition, is much easier to perpetrate, control, and if necessary, cover up, when there are few, rather than many, co-conspirators. Just ask Nixon.

    Now, we’re not talking about things that most people even care about. College athletics. Not national defense. Not the financial industry. Not politics. The laws of averages and human nature dictate that this will happen only infrequently. This is so whether the scale is large, like national defense, or small, like college athletics. This makes the sample size smaller, therefore the ability to display evidence to folks that don’t believe will be more difficult.

    Most of those that do care are made to feel silly if they believe such things as I’ve said here. That is easy to do because if those few that have the desire, and are placed correctly, to exert such “biases” are not immediately visible, it takes someone on the inside who either doesn’t care about their own well-being, or is placed above the individuals in question, to bring the issue in question to light. Most folks who are placed correctly, and could therefore exert such “influence”, don’t HAVE many, if any, people above them. For those reasons (not important to most folks and fairly invisible do-ers) proof becomes even harder to come by.

    Among other things I’m a student of human behavior. Don’t even try to tell that there are not people capable and willing to do these things. And NONE of them are going to voluntarily admit to it, and NONE of them fly around in black helicopters. That’s movie and book crap, and anyone that spews that shit as a so-called “defense” of the “I don’t believe in conspiracies” opinion, is only showing how little they know about human nature and how easy THAT makes it for folks that DO have the desire to exert….their “biases”.

    So yes, some “biases” will be seen eventually if the necessary circumstances make it happen. Most will not be.

    Now, if it makes some of you sleep better at night to believe that no one would stoop so low as to intentionally fix college sports (“fix” is a strong word, I realize), then by all means do whatever you have to do to forget what I’ve said here.

    Some of you KNOW better, however.

    Disclaimer 1: wbnation: I am not intentionally singling you out. Your quote was easiest to access.

    Disclaimer 2: While I believe what I said above whole-heartedly (and I don’t really give a crap if folks in the lower portion of intelligence and the gene pool think this makes state fans look nuts, quite frankly…most of those also have a vested interest in NOT believing the truth), I also believe there are equally honest folks, that if they knew and could get to the “do-ers” as I referred to them, would do so regardless of their own personal repercussions. Thats the key to why the fewer consirator rule is so important. Plausible deniability is a bitch.

    Disclaimer 3: If these statements make ME look crazy, I could not care less. Just remember, looks can be very deceiving.

    EDIT: you were caught by the spam filter. — Alpha

  20. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 9:53 PM #

    “(wufpacker)If your comments weren’t directed at me then I retract.”

    To be honest, I’m getting consfused as to who has said what, or believes what, LOL.

    My major problem is my browser is screwing up. And I truly believe what I’m about to say:

    Disagreement and discussion is why I LOVE this site, and I mean no disrespect to anyone. If we all believed the same things what fun would that be? I’m done for the night I think, unless I can figure out my browser problems (or whatever is causing the problem; tried to post with a different browser and it didn’t work right either. Any inside advice will be appreciated).

    I’ll try again tomorrow with a different (though much older and slower) machine and see what happens. G’nite

  21. tuckerdorm1983 07/23/2010 at 10:22 PM #

    WUFPACKER. Never insulted, just goofing around.

    I just worry that they are going to let the boys in light blue off real easy. I went to undergrad at NCSU and was a freshman when Sidney and the boys won it all. I went over to UNX and attended law school. UNC is a great school with tremendous traditions, but I hate the fans and the sports teams.
    I just would like to see more direct evidence than pictures of cupcakes, receipts from the cheescake factory and pictures poolside. So far the media has not uncovered one direct link showing MA took money. Lots of circumstantial evidence. Maybe there is more, but I haven’t seen it.
    I hope after the Reggie Bush thing they want to crack down and UNX is the target to put everyone else on notice. Thats alls Im sayin, know whad I mean.

    WE ARE ALL GOOD!!! UNITED IN ONE COMMON CAUSE!!

  22. choppack1 07/23/2010 at 10:42 PM #

    wbnation – I agree w/ you that we can’t really complain about the outcome or investigation until it’s completed…and who knows when it will be completed.

    What I would like to see is the Raleigh paper be a little more aggressive in pursuing UNC. There’s been plenty of circumstancial evidence that strange things were amiss in Chapel Hill – but we’ve heard very little from the N&O. OTOH, we’ve had articles about Tracy Smith parking in a handicapped spot, Sidney Lowe watering his lawn on a day when he shouldn’t have and athletic dorm that didn’t really violate NCAA rules, but they implied that it did.

    I’m just asking for this paper to show that it is fairly run. Of course, as the “journOlists” scandal indicates, the “other guy” isn’t likely to get a fair shake from some of the media, and the favorite son can basically get away w/ a lot worse.

  23. Wufpacker 07/23/2010 at 10:53 PM #

    ^Well said. The trust isn’t there for me and that makes it difficult to believe anything they say.

    tuckerdorm1983:
    Sorry I misread your post, and yes, we’re good, and on the same page, I think.

  24. NOT A FAN OF BLUE 07/24/2010 at 10:30 AM #

    Amen, triadwolf. I’ll pass on an investigation, as well.
    Here’s a thought, let’s police ourselves. Eureka!
    We expect our coaches to do this, of course; it is part of their job. From all appearances, they do.
    Here’s hoping our upperclassmen – players who have battled together and paid the price of progress in blood, sweat and tears – help our coaches police the on-and-off the field activities of each member of the team.
    It’s not a mystery, to members of a tight-knit organization, a knucklehead is easy to spot. Way before the media – or a coach – detects an issue, like a “fixer”, a mature team leader eliminates the problem … on the spot.
    Having been on the receiving end of an upperclassmen “smackdown”, nothing strikes fear in a punk-ass 20 yr-old like the righteous indignation of a 6’5″ 300 lb senior. In my case, fear led to appreciation; appreciation led to respect. Shortly thereafter, I bought in to the program.
    Being part of a team on the rise is something special. Special bonds develop through years of struggle. TEAM success requires the wholehearted, sold-out, selfless dedication of every single player … stars, starters and role players.
    I hope our players realize the opportunity before them. I hope our upperclassmen lead by example. Regardless of the temptation, whether it is improper contact with an agent, underage drinking, drinking and driving, illegal drugs, disturbing the peace, skipping class, cheating in class or any of the other myriad “cancers” that can infect a program, I hope our players allow nothing to derail years of hard-won progress.

  25. Prowling Woofie 07/24/2010 at 11:39 AM #

    ^ Nice post, NAFOB !

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