NC State 59, Virginia Tech 71

09-10 Basketball282

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09-10 Basketball

282 Responses to NC State 59, Virginia Tech 71

  1. bradleyb123 03/04/2010 at 1:50 PM #

    So, tell me again, why we shouldn’t disrupt the logic of “Herb was given six so… Sid gets…” ?

    The logic is not that Sid SHOULD get six. It’s more like, this is why he WILL get six. Assuming we remain consistent in the way we treat our coaches. In Herb’s fifth year, we only won 13 games, and he still got a sixth year. We’re at 16-14 right now, with some great recruits coming in. Why would the NCSU administration fire him? It would be par for the course for us to keep Sidney, like we did Herb. (Again, I’m not saying we SHOULD, but that I think we WILL…)

    I’m not defending Sidney any more. I’m not calling for his job, either. I don’t think blogging about this does anything other than make us feel better, and possibly hurt recruiting (evidenced by Ryan Harrow’s letter to State fans — recruits DO read these posts). Since I know it does no good to rant and rave about Sidney on blogs, it no longer makes me feel better to do it. So for me, all I see it doing is hurting recruiting, and I want no part of that, either.

    I see Sidney getting one more year at a minimum, despite what anyone posts on here. It’s only his fifth year, and he has some great recruits coming in. (I’m not saying this is why he SHOULD get a fifth year, but rather, this is why I think he WILL get a fifth year.)

  2. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 1:53 PM #

    “….and you weren’t bringing that up.”
    ———————————————————–
    you might wanna read back through this thread… i’ve mentioned it ad nauseam.

    oh, and WHAT “progress” pray tell was Herb able to bestow upon the program through his first 4 years??? I can’t find it.
    Herb’s conference record was a mere 2 games better his 4th year than his first, and the EXACT same as his 3rd. And again, I contend that the situation Sid inherited was actually WORSE than Herb’s because of the OVERT lack of athleticism Herb had assembled along with his complete and utter NON recruiting of a PG for 3 years AFTER Engin (a SHOOTING guard mind you) had entered the program. Herb had placed his ENTIRE PG eggs in one (Wright) basket. the same basket that BAILED during our lengthy coaching search.
    I’m truly sorry that reality has been lost on you.

  3. bradleyb123 03/04/2010 at 2:02 PM #

    Has anyone heard ANYTHING at all on possibly removing ole Jed anytime soon?

    I know a guy that knows some people, and he hasn’t heard anything lately. But he seems to believe that some of our biggest donors LIKE ole Jed. They like golfing with him, stuff like that. Why can’t we have some big-time donors that actually CARE about what happens in athletics at NC State?!??

  4. Rochester 03/04/2010 at 2:09 PM #

    Sendek took a program that had not been to postseason play for five seasons and led it to the NIT in each of his first four seasons. Hardly what anyone was really aiming for, but you can’t realistically say it wasn’t progress over five years in a row of not making anything.

    Should we miss the NIT for the third straight year this season, it will mark only our second string of three-plus consecutive postseason-less years since 1971-73. And 1973 doesn’t really count because we were 27-0 that year and won the ACCT, but were ineligible.

  5. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 2:17 PM #

    Rochester- do you think the entire college landscape has changed/gotten MORE competitive since the 70’s??? Truthfully, it’s come along just since the early 2000’s.
    One need look no further than the mass amounts of mid-majors making runs at the big dance on an annual basis now.
    Just my .02, i’m interested in hearing yours.

  6. Rochester 03/04/2010 at 2:20 PM #

    In the early 70s you didn’t make the NCAA tournament unless you won your conference, so I would say that was quite a bit more competitive than now, at least as far as reaching postseason play.

  7. Wolfy__79 03/04/2010 at 2:55 PM #

    70’s relied more on fundamentals, post 2000’s incorporate more athleticism less fundy’s.

  8. choppack1 03/04/2010 at 2:58 PM #

    TOB – I am commenting on your opinion that Sid should be given another year because the coach before that was given 6…like I said, I don’t really have an issue w/ saying – we can possibly go the tournament next year because he’s bringing in 2 great recruits who will go elsewhere.

    I’m cool w/ the “incoming recruits” logic. It’s sound…it’s short term – but sound.

    However, when you start talking about keeping coach X, because coach Y – whose tenure left most wolfpack fans w/a bad taste in its mouth – got 1 year more – well – like I said, it’s obvious that you’re emotionally tied to keeping Coach X at the school – for whatever reason.

  9. bradleyb123 03/04/2010 at 3:34 PM #

    However, when you start talking about keeping coach X, because coach Y – whose tenure left most wolfpack fans w/a bad taste in its mouth – got 1 year more – well – like I said, it’s obvious that you’re emotionally tied to keeping Coach X at the school – for whatever reason.

    Some of us think a coaching change will result in another setback for the program. It’s not a cut-n-dry thing that we just have an emptional connection to Sidney. I mainly don’t trust Fowlup to bring in a worthy replacement.

    First order of business: Replace Fowler. Worry about Sidney later. With his incoming recruits, it shouldn’t be the worst thing in the world. And best case, we’ll be very happy with them.

  10. choppack1 03/04/2010 at 3:58 PM #

    bradley – that’s fine. That makes sense – and I’m pretty much there. We might as well see what happens when we have some highly rated guards – because if he leaves – we lose those guards.

    As for using Fowler to conduct a search – I can see that too. But, we’ve managed to hire 2 other coaches w/out totally screwing those up.

    In addition, it’s not like we can really get much worse. That wasn’t the case 4 years ago – we could get alot worse – and we did.

    We haven’t reached the Bob Staak or Les Robinson level of suckage – but aside from those 2 clowns, you’ll be hard pressed to find someone who inherited a probation-free program that can “match” our current rate of suckage.

    The other arguments for keeping him aren’t logical.

  11. 61Packer 03/04/2010 at 4:00 PM #

    It’s our own AD Jed’s detection
    That we’re moving in the right direction.
    From tenth to last and repeat again-
    4 ACC games, maybe 5 we’ll win…
    Is there a cure for this infection?

  12. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 4:02 PM #

    Agreed bradley…. NOTHING can/will be accomplished BEFORE Fowler is history. Sid will have next year to turn the corner, and personally I think he will.
    Chop- I understand what you’re saying, but others continue to push for Sid’s head after only 4 years, and I don’t think it’s fair to NOT take our short-term history into account… for those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it… and again, i’m NOT for renewing Sid’s contract if he BACKS up next year as his predecessor did in his 5th season. Others I know think he should be given a sixth year regardless, but i’m not in that camp. Now, if there’s a rash of injuries to key players for State next year, my tune could change, but NOTHING short of that would do it for a Pack team that has less than 9 conference wins. That’s where I AM setting the bar.

  13. choppack1 03/04/2010 at 4:17 PM #

    TOB – what basketball coach did we run off after 4 years?

    And who in the world not named Lee Fowler thinks that Sid should get a 6th year.

    And like I said, at this point, Fowler is irrelevant. Fowler’s presecence wasn’t irrelevant when you had a basketball coach taking you dancing .50 of his tenure…There was a huge chance he could make things lots worse. And guess what – he did.

    Hey – you never know – the ship was righted before (it didn’t really go anywhere, but at least it wasn’t sinking.) It can be righted again. NC State coaches not named Chuck Amato have a way of pulling together a couple of wins when their job is on the line.

  14. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 4:30 PM #

    I never stated we DID run a coach off after 4 years, i’m merely stating we shouldN’T start now. Re-read my post. I have a lot of friends within the Wolfpack community that think he should have 6 years because he needs a couple of years to “gel” the new recruits/team together…. again, I am NOT in that camp. Five is my tune, and I’m sticking to it, but I fully expect our program to turn the corner next year.

  15. Rochester 03/04/2010 at 4:38 PM #

    2009 excuse: Herb’s players weren’t getting the job done

    2010 excuse: Sid needs a chance with his Year 5 recruits

    2011 excuse preview (courtesy TOB): if there’s a rash of injuries to key players

  16. choppack1 03/04/2010 at 5:08 PM #

    TOB – you said that those that don’t remember the past are doomed to repeat it. That implies that we’ve fired coaches too early into their tenure before they could get the best results.

    Of course – you may have been talking about Fowler…and I’d only say that the history surrounding this coach and the last one is NOT the same…yet.

  17. ldr of the pk 75 03/04/2010 at 5:24 PM #

    TOB- Rochester makes a point you may not fully understand. In the 70’s at least in the ACC you didn’t make the dance unless you won the Conference Tournament. Many a great Nationally Ranked team was left home. In those days, for the “real” conferences, you were put right into the sweet 16 (the Regionals). There was a round of play in games to fill in the “16” bracket. There is certainly no way to tell how teams of one era would fare against teams from another. But, in just 1974 for example, I’d put up State, Md, or UCLA against most any team that has played and won since. I’d put those UCLA teams of the 60’s and 70’s up. Just opinion, certainly not fact.

    Because of money and money alone,IMO, the NCAA powers opened up the tourney to teams and conferences that have no chance to be competitive night in and out with the big boys. Anyone can have a run of a game or two, but it’s flash in the pan stuff. And, now they want to extend it to 90 some teams? Hell they already have a losers bracket called the NIT. And we can’t even sniff that bracket, much less win it. There’s a fact for you to hang your hat on over the last few years.

    TOB- You also mistake the point of my arguement. I’m not really worried about what happened to Memphis when Cal left to KY. For the record, they are 2nd in their conference with a 22-8 record. The fact or perhaps philosophy I’m trying to suggest is that if you go out and get a real coach, that has a system, a philosophy, a record to stand on, etc, and the recruits and wins will come for the long term .

    I’ve gambled a good bit in my day, and I’m almost willing to bet that with the great class next year, Sid can’t bring them in any higher than 6th or 7th, if that. If we’re willing to bumble along another year into oblivion, then things are worse than I expect.

  18. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 6:28 PM #

    “TOB – you said that those that don’t remember the past are doomed to repeat it. That implies that we’ve fired coaches too early into their tenure before they could get the best results.”
    ———————————————————–
    That would be in reference to Sid being granted a 6th year…. it has nothing to do with 4 years. Again, I don’t think a 6th year would be warranted withOUT a big dance invitation next year.

  19. WolfManJack 03/04/2010 at 6:31 PM #

    I have tried and tried to pull for Sid. But as ChopPack pointed out he took over a team that was not on probation. The cubbard was bare for atheletes granted but it is still bare. I am sorry but I am still frustrated knowing that even next year I think 5th or 6th is our ceiling and that frustrates me even more. After next year Smith is gone if Leslie comes here he would probably be gone and our next batch of recruits havent surfaced yet so what should our expectations be in 2014-2015. Forget about WTNY what is our projection for this program period.

  20. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 6:37 PM #

    ldr of the pack- I’m fully aware of how the early 70’s worked and I agree with your assessment that some of those teams were the best teams EVER, that’s not hard to grasp because the number of talented teams in the country then was much, much smaller. I’m not 100% convinced Sid’s going to be our coach for the next 20 years either, but I am fully convinced that NOT giving him next year to coach his top 10 recruiting class would be a certain DEATH PENALTY for our program for at least ANOTHER 4 or 5 years, and I’m just not willing to go there. Look, to each their own… it’s just at the end of the day there is but one reality, and that reality is that Sid WILL have next year at the helm to make the program go… and I fully intend on SUPPORTING HIM in his quest, whereas the “naysayers” are so deep in now, that they (a good bit of them, not accusing YOU of being one) WISH for Sid to fail to save their own face, and be able to say “I told ya so”. Bottom line is Sid is going to be our coach next year, and we’ve already witnessed the potential damage the “pissy fringe” can do via a message board. What else needs to be said????

  21. WolfManJack 03/04/2010 at 6:45 PM #

    I have supported and will continue to support Sid next year and if he does grow as a Coack K did after his less then amazing first few years at Duke then I will be his biggest fan because I think it would be amazing to have him turn our program around and bring in another championship for us as he did as a player. Just getting very tired of “WAITING”.

  22. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 6:47 PM #

    “I am sorry but I am still frustrated knowing that even next year I think 5th or 6th is our ceiling and that frustrates me even more”
    ——————————————————————-
    With all due respect fine sir…. you’re clearly underestimating the impact a couple of top flight freshmen guards can have on a program. Throw in a solid post player or two to compliment T Smith and Howell, and I think we’ll all be surprised at what this team is capable of. If I’m wrong and this bunch doesn’t take us to the next level, I’ll be the first person on here to proclaim I WAS WRONG… I just truly don’t believe that will be the case. Time will tell. If the Pack ever get to 8 losses in league next year, TOB4PREZ will lead the charge in calling for Bobby Knight to come out of retirement….

    i keed… i keed

  23. bradleyb123 03/04/2010 at 6:48 PM #

    and again, i’m NOT for renewing Sid’s contract if he BACKS up next year as his predecessor did in his 5th season.

    Just to clarify, Sid’s predecessor only won 13 games in his fifth season. And we STILL kept him for a 6th season. It was not until his 6th season that we finally made it to the big dance.

  24. TOB4PREZ 03/04/2010 at 6:49 PM #

    “Just getting very tired of “WAITING”.”
    ————————————————–
    I’m with ya wolfman, I’m with ya. I just think our wait is almost over.
    -crosses fingers-

  25. WolfManJack 03/04/2010 at 6:52 PM #

    I am 30 years old and have been a pack fan for as long as I can remember mostly because all my friends were UNX fans growing up and I didnt want to be part of that crowd. I then graduated State and had a few great moments of knocking off #1 but never actually getting to have the experience of being #1. I was 4 years old when we won our last championship so I have no real memories of that and I want a chance to be the one to tell my friends that MY SCHOOL NORTH CAROLINA STATE WOLFPACK is better then your school whomever they may be. I have paid NCSU though tuition, LTR’s and season tickets since the beginning and I am ready for a return. Probably a little selfish but hey I think I am entitled by now. If Sid or Tom can do that I will be glad to double all donations.

    Edit: Sorry about any spelling or grammar mistakes I am just to lazy to go back and fix them.

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