That is going to leave a mark

NC State succeeded to erase most of the goodwill the Wolfpack had built in the early part of the season with an embarrassing 70-62 home loss to fellow projected cellar-dwellar, Virginia.

State was up ten points in the middle of the second half when Mike Wood called an ‘interesting’ charge on Dennis Horner that took 2 points off the board for us that would have extended our lead to 12.

UVa followed that possession with a three pointer and the mentally-weak Wolfpack’s collapse was just beginning . I would love to know what the scoring was in the game after the foul called on Horner.

The Wolfpack then missed free throw after free throw after free throw and couldn’t score to offset our bad defense as Virginia pulled away. For the game, the Wolfpack was a miserable 16-25 from the free throw line (61.5%) while Virginia shot a blistering 19-20 from the charity stripe.

The first 30 seconds of the game was literally a mirror into the foundational deficiencies that plague the NC State program: (1) Javi Gonzalez committed an unforced turnover in the first eight seconds of the basketball game. How is that even possible?, (2) Virginia grabbed an offensive rebound on their shot attempt just 27 seconds into the game. You couldn’t have even scripted behavior more telling than that.

I wish I could comment on Coach Lowe’s substitution pattern, but I don’t quite understand it any more than he does.

A good friend of mine emailed me the following after the game —

I don’t get emotional about NC State Basketball anymore. This is literally the first time all year I’ve wasted more than 30 mins (of my time) on a game, and I realize now why I do not dedicate any time watching this.

Why do I send you this? Because I think I probably feel the same way a lot of fans do, and it is sad. There was nobody in RBC for an ACC game on a Saturday.

Looking at our ACC schedule, there is no team we are clearly better than on the list. We’ll have a small margin for error in all our games. It could get really bad this year; I hope I am wrong.

Once again we have “hope”, with Harrow and a few others coming, which is horrible becuase “hope” is not a plan. I HATE the excuse that you have to get players, though I know it is importanct. We both know you are not a good program if you have to rely on a a great recruit to be competitive. Good coaches can overcome a certain level of talent gap by focusing on fundamentals and sound basketball. And I really don’t think our talent gap is too large in ACC competition.

So . . . if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck. If the team gets 4 wins or less in the ACC, a real possibility, it would be appalling not to make a change. And once again, I really hope I’m wrong and get a surprise to the upside!!!

I totally understand his thoughts and his feelings. I just don’t understand why any NC State would remotely entertain any coaching move while Lee F*ing Fowler would be the AD responsible for making the hire. What coach in America do you think would want to work for that bozo? I know quite a few personally – including one in Texas – who has told his friends and inner circle there would be no way in hell they ‘would ever work for that idiot’.

As we’ve been trying to tell you for YEARS — there is NO REASON to focus or worry about any of the individual programs before you fix the biggest problem that inherently impacts every program — LEE FOWLER.

SUNDAY UPDATE (11 a.m.)

The fallout from Saturday’s loss has spilled over into Sunday now and I just can’t tell you how happy it makes me that I get the pleasure of talking about the game more.

Luke DeCock addressed State’s sloppy play in his column today in the N&O.

Also, Denny Kuiper, from the ACC Journal, touched on State/Virginia in his 3-pointer.

I don’t really have anymore to say about the game. State should have won by 8-10 points and ended up losing by eight. The one thing that really scares me about it, the more I think about it, is that this debacle came against Virginia. This wasn’t Carolina or Duke or some top tier team, it was Virginia. The next three weeks sure look like they could be loads of fun.

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09-10 Basketball

159 Responses to That is going to leave a mark

  1. WolftownVA81 01/10/2010 at 7:07 PM #

    Everyone keeps saying Sid can recruit the talent. My question is who, besides JJ Hickson, has he recruited that has ACC level talent (can start playing their freshman year)? I think the correct assertion is that Sid can potentially bring in the talent. But until that happens, I prefer to evaluate his performance on Ws and Ls. At the end of this year, that evaluation needs to be made.

  2. packfan03 01/10/2010 at 7:28 PM #

    ^^Ryan Harrow, Lorenzo Brown – rated 95 points out of 100 on ESPN. Luke Cothron – rated 96 out of 100 on ESPN. It HAS happened. They have signed, and will be here next year. Factually, this is the best recruiting class NCSU has had in the past 25 years. Could be better with CJ Leslie. If you think Sid should be fired because he can’t recruit, you haven’t done your research. If you think he should be fired based off of coaching, it’s a conversation.

  3. Thinkpack17 01/10/2010 at 7:55 PM #

    With Tracy Smith in the Top 5 in scoring and rebounding I think you have to count him as an ACC caliber player. As well as a recruiting victory.

    With that said, apart from the Wake and Northwestern loss I don’t think we were notably outclassed in the talent department. Landesberg was the best player on the floor yesterday and he took over the game. I have said Sid deserves another year, but he did get outcoached yesterday.

    And another thing…the people saying we should be playing Big V more and Dennis Horner less are not thinking straight. We can’t score as is and you want to sub in defense for offense? Dennis is our second leading scorer and shoots like 50% from three. He also gives Tracy the extra room he needs in the paint.

    People suggesting we simply do X instead of Y…just stop it. We aren’t a good team and unless you have a flux capacitor handy you as Joe Wolfpack Fan aren’t going to solve our problems. Stop it.

  4. Thinkpack17 01/10/2010 at 7:58 PM #

    BTW the Shadow722 post was hilarious!

    I’m glad that someone besides me thought it was funny. That’s the only reason that I left it up.
    VaWolf82

  5. VaWolf82 01/10/2010 at 8:22 PM #

    Factually, this is the best recruiting class NCSU has had in the past 25 years.

    Recheck your facts. The Hodge class was top 5.

  6. Thinkpack17 01/10/2010 at 8:32 PM #

    With the way Texas competes for National titles we should put in an offer for both him and Rick Barnes.

  7. BJD95 01/10/2010 at 8:38 PM #

    And all the Hodge class did was buy us several years of limbo – and that was with a halfway competent (which was not good enough for me) coach.

    If the incoming players have best case scenario performance, I imagine Lowe will make the NIT. And the lemmings will be shouting “Improvement” from their rooftops.

    Seriously, if this is the kind of standards we have, maybe we get the level of crapulence we deserve.

  8. BJD95 01/10/2010 at 8:42 PM #

    By the way, if you quit watching GB/AZ – put it back on. 45-45, overtime!

  9. VaWolf82 01/10/2010 at 8:48 PM #

    And all the Hodge class did was buy us several years of limbo

    ISTRC that as the 01-02 season started, everyone in the MSM (including Vitale) was talking about how Sendek was on the hot seat. If people think that negativity on message boards affects recruiting, what effect do you think talking heads have?

    Regardless of the reason(s), the Hodge class was followed up with two pitiful classes….six scholarships awarded with four of those transferring to much smaller schools. It will be interesting to see how Lowe’s recruiting goes next summer.

  10. Thinkpack17 01/10/2010 at 8:56 PM #

    “If the incoming players have best case scenario performance, I imagine Lowe will make the NIT. And the lemmings will be shouting “Improvement” from their rooftops.”

    NIT will not be enough. Unless it includes 2 wins against UNC a blow out win at Cameron and a ACC tournament finals appearance. It is worth noting this year is our “easy” ACC schedule with Clemson and Duke both coming to us. Next year we are At Cameron and Littlejohn.

  11. packfan03 01/10/2010 at 9:20 PM #

    “Recheck your facts. The Hodge class was top 5.”

    The only link I could find said 6th. My apologies if you have a link stating otherwise…So I’ll restate “Factually, this is at worst the second best recruiting class in the past 25 years”. Perhaps my use of the word “factually” ruffled some feathers.

    Plus, I don’t think we had two 5 star recruits in that class. Realizing that ranks are subjective to the players around them, I think Harrow, Brown, and Cothron have more potential than Hodge, Powell, Levi W., Illian, and J. Collins ever did. Especially when you consider college basketball is guard oriented.

    If we get CJ, this isn’t even an argument.

  12. WTNY 01/10/2010 at 9:21 PM #

    What were the game breakers? Free throws — yes. Questionable call on Horner — yes. But my number one was a coaching error:

    DEFENSE ON LANDESBERG — When either Williams or Davis were on him, they were able to reasonably cover him but Wood/Horner were a disaster. UVa did a lot of damage with Wood/Horner on Landesberg, including when they were making their 2nd half runs.

  13. WolftownVA81 01/10/2010 at 10:19 PM #

    My earlier comment on the potential to recruit goes to who of those that are signed actually make it to campus.

  14. choppack1 01/10/2010 at 10:41 PM #

    We are definitely in a very similar situation to 2001-2002.

    Right now, I’m hoping we’ll turn out as well as that team did, because I’m not sure it’s in the cards. But I definitely hope so.

    This loss to UVa opens up the proverbial “train-wreck” possibility that could make it necessary to act instead of letting 2010-2011 play out.

    Sid and his staff definitely have an eye for talent and the class they are bringing in is their best one yet. I just hope that this year isn’t so bad some potential recruits reconsider – and at this point, it’s a distinc possibility.

  15. MA Wolfpack 01/10/2010 at 10:43 PM #

    The Hodge class (combined with Melvin, Scooter, Mike Bell) gave us an ACC contender. I’m doing this off memory so I could be incorrect, but we had 2 ACC tournament finals appearances, 4 NCAA tournament appearances, 1 Sweet 16, 3 round of 32 and a second place ACC regular season finish (even though that is only for seeding). Before that class, we were not competitive in the ACC. I expect a similar change with these 2 classes, but we will not know that for sure until next year.

    I was not sure of Sendek’s “coaching ability” until he failed to win anything with that talent. If Lowe fails to win next season after increasing our talent level, then I’ll be convinced he cannot get it done. Losing with the talent we have now does not matter. Coach K, John Wooden, etc could not make the NCAA tournament with this roster.

    If we do change coaches, then finding an elite recruiter is the most important element to contending for championships.

  16. 61Packer 01/10/2010 at 10:57 PM #

    In Sidney Lowe’s 4th season at NCSU, we’re 15 and 35 in the ACC.

    HOWEVER, if this team starts making more of its free throws, quits turning the ball over so much, has great point guard play, learns to defend (especially against 75-footers), gets better calls from the refs, and discovers hidden talent on our bench, that record just might end up 32-35 as we enter the NCAA tourney in 2 months.

    ON THE OTHER HAND, there’s always the possibility that Lowe will be 15-50 in the ACC after the opening round of the ACC Tourney is completed.

    Which do YOU think will happen? Hint: our coach is an NBA guy who went 79-228 in the pros.

  17. JeremyH 01/10/2010 at 11:42 PM #

    has everyone had enough time to cool off?

    free throws are a part of coaching. minimizing mistakes is a part of coaching. having players listen to you is a part of coaching (you cannot blame them for not listening, half of it is your responsibility). if I wanted to be negative, I would say that it seems like there is an excuse that just morphs into something new every time.

    that being said, tomorrow the sun will rise and it will surely be a new day. has the the season been lost? surely not. has the team gone from mildly exceeding expectations to meeting low expectations? perhaps so. but this team is capable of playing good, we’ve seen it, and now it’s Lowe’s job to find a way to bring that out on a consistent basis. the last two couple of important games have been disappointing, let’s see what the next few bring.

  18. VaWolf82 01/10/2010 at 11:58 PM #

    but this team is capable of playing good, we’ve seen it,

    Against what level of competition? There’s only one cupcake left on the schedule.

  19. Wolfy__79 01/11/2010 at 12:19 AM #

    alot are calling for sidney’s head, i’m not among them yet. but i’m just as disgusted as every NCSU fan/alum. my problem revolves around what we have.. no point guard whatsoever! not free throws, not really anythingelse initially. second to that would be of course the substitutions.. i’m with everyone on this, it doesn’t click with the college setting…

  20. Wolfy__79 01/11/2010 at 12:24 AM #

    i actually credit the coaches for doing so well with the javi/mays/degand show? they suck. i renamed mays big baby. degand is?? a wasted scholarship. javi, he doesn’t belong on the floor. what sidney gets out of these kids is an accomplishment most of the time. i’m grateful for javi’s improvement this year, but his decision making is very poor.. perhaps the only area he needs to improve on to make solid impact. second to that would be free throw shooting. growing up, seeing the guard play in the eighties.. i was spoiled i suppose with much talent at that spot across the ACC and NCSU! i think lowe banked on the fact that he would be able to make due with these kids until he got the top tier pg we all long for.

  21. Wolfy__79 01/11/2010 at 12:30 AM #

    i strongly feel that if sidney would be more of an autocratic drill sergeant the results would be outstanding. i’ve said this since day one! i don’t believe he is a lost cause… actually i like the feel of the team this year. saturday’s blunder doesn’t help this much.. and heading to fsu really puts a damper on the situation.. or does it, i’m not waiting til next year!!! this young team will continue to improve. the ACC schedule could be awful, but i’m very optimistic on what we can accomplish this year. i really thought a win versus arizona then florida would have punched our ticket to the NCAA’s. out of reach? no.

  22. Wolfy__79 01/11/2010 at 12:43 AM #

    what i’d like to see from the team would be this: much more playing time for howell and vandenburg. these kids are ready to get their share of minutes. tracy forces way too much with horner or anyone else alongside him in the paint. i laugh when we say we’re inside/out whilst everyone stands around the perimeter and tracy is standing 5-7 ft from the basket

    our young kids have to get playing time. painter/davis… need as much as they can get. painter needs something, idk what. but davis is very energetic, not much of a scorer but defends fairly well.

    unfortunately and contrary to earlier posts, javi/degand have to be in the game! javi has to understand that he is forcing the ball.. CONSTANTLY! STOP. i don’t want to see your ugly shot period. create.. pass. this is what an ACC pointMAN is expected to do. and quit missing layups. OMG.

    scott wood. need i say more. the kid is good, and gets better every game. he improved saturday yet we didn’t see it b/c he was not involved in the offense. if needed. take horner out of the game completely and keep wood out there. i don’t care. use this young talent.

    i am completely suprised by the aussie! the kid is a good defender and very physical despite the skinny frame.

    cj? what you want to do is stay infront of the guy you are defending.. not behind chasing. you are too big to allow someone to blow by you or shoot overtop of you. and get your tale in the paint.. slash.. do whatever.

    this team is not fully playing together. it is very evident when javi gonzalez is running off screens to shoot three’s, forcing the crap out of the ball down the lane b/t 3 sometimes 4 defenders to miss layups! be the assistman. get this team together. best case scenario you could shoot lights out and only score thirty points? we need 80pts/game to be a threat to anyone in this conference.

  23. Wolfy__79 01/11/2010 at 12:45 AM #

    but, all this said. i should have a low bball IQ compared to the NCSU staff.. all that is left is for our COACH to quit making this soooooo complicated and be more assertive towards these children until otherwise notified! hopefully you read this. but i’m sure you won’t. be the drill sergeant you need to be!

  24. ncsumi 01/11/2010 at 8:01 AM #

    I aint scart of toy guns. I am a clinging pollyantic lemming.

    I agree with the sophisticated, smart independent thinkers that Lowe should not have been offered; he should have declined; and he should have resigned when it was “discovered” (how did that happen?) that he did not meet the minimum qualifications. Concur, he has proved to not be a fast learner.

    However I live in daNow and today we have a crappy coach of a crew of castoffs. Unfortunately, I do not suffer from wtny yet, but I am in wtng right now and after tipoff will suffer from wtnp. I only have time for one team (other than my fantasy ones) and I was won over as an impressoniable 11-12 year ond by DT, TB, MT, DS and crew and it will at least take twenty more years of this shit before I go away.

    I am not a talent scout, but I disagree that this team is that talent deficient — it aint the best but it aint bad either. What they lack is leadership (especially from the coaching). !@#$%^&*IF!@#$%^&* a leader emerges, we can compete. If it doesn’t we go Ofer. It has not showed up yet, but sometimes leadership emerges from the unexpected, so I will continue to “cling.”

    ps: For those that have tapped out … Ill take your tickets and/or parking pass.

  25. Rick 01/11/2010 at 9:01 AM #

    “Regardless of the reason(s), the Hodge class was followed up with two pitiful classes….six scholarships awarded with four of those transferring to much smaller schools. It will be interesting to see how Lowe’s recruiting goes next summer.”

    And I have not read about any top recruits coming. It is obvious SL needs superior talent to beat teams. If he does not get it consistently then we will be in limbo again.

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