That is going to leave a mark

NC State succeeded to erase most of the goodwill the Wolfpack had built in the early part of the season with an embarrassing 70-62 home loss to fellow projected cellar-dwellar, Virginia.

State was up ten points in the middle of the second half when Mike Wood called an ‘interesting’ charge on Dennis Horner that took 2 points off the board for us that would have extended our lead to 12.

UVa followed that possession with a three pointer and the mentally-weak Wolfpack’s collapse was just beginning . I would love to know what the scoring was in the game after the foul called on Horner.

The Wolfpack then missed free throw after free throw after free throw and couldn’t score to offset our bad defense as Virginia pulled away. For the game, the Wolfpack was a miserable 16-25 from the free throw line (61.5%) while Virginia shot a blistering 19-20 from the charity stripe.

The first 30 seconds of the game was literally a mirror into the foundational deficiencies that plague the NC State program: (1) Javi Gonzalez committed an unforced turnover in the first eight seconds of the basketball game. How is that even possible?, (2) Virginia grabbed an offensive rebound on their shot attempt just 27 seconds into the game. You couldn’t have even scripted behavior more telling than that.

I wish I could comment on Coach Lowe’s substitution pattern, but I don’t quite understand it any more than he does.

A good friend of mine emailed me the following after the game —

I don’t get emotional about NC State Basketball anymore. This is literally the first time all year I’ve wasted more than 30 mins (of my time) on a game, and I realize now why I do not dedicate any time watching this.

Why do I send you this? Because I think I probably feel the same way a lot of fans do, and it is sad. There was nobody in RBC for an ACC game on a Saturday.

Looking at our ACC schedule, there is no team we are clearly better than on the list. We’ll have a small margin for error in all our games. It could get really bad this year; I hope I am wrong.

Once again we have “hope”, with Harrow and a few others coming, which is horrible becuase “hope” is not a plan. I HATE the excuse that you have to get players, though I know it is importanct. We both know you are not a good program if you have to rely on a a great recruit to be competitive. Good coaches can overcome a certain level of talent gap by focusing on fundamentals and sound basketball. And I really don’t think our talent gap is too large in ACC competition.

So . . . if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck. If the team gets 4 wins or less in the ACC, a real possibility, it would be appalling not to make a change. And once again, I really hope I’m wrong and get a surprise to the upside!!!

I totally understand his thoughts and his feelings. I just don’t understand why any NC State would remotely entertain any coaching move while Lee F*ing Fowler would be the AD responsible for making the hire. What coach in America do you think would want to work for that bozo? I know quite a few personally – including one in Texas – who has told his friends and inner circle there would be no way in hell they ‘would ever work for that idiot’.

As we’ve been trying to tell you for YEARS — there is NO REASON to focus or worry about any of the individual programs before you fix the biggest problem that inherently impacts every program — LEE FOWLER.

SUNDAY UPDATE (11 a.m.)

The fallout from Saturday’s loss has spilled over into Sunday now and I just can’t tell you how happy it makes me that I get the pleasure of talking about the game more.

Luke DeCock addressed State’s sloppy play in his column today in the N&O.

Also, Denny Kuiper, from the ACC Journal, touched on State/Virginia in his 3-pointer.

I don’t really have anymore to say about the game. State should have won by 8-10 points and ended up losing by eight. The one thing that really scares me about it, the more I think about it, is that this debacle came against Virginia. This wasn’t Carolina or Duke or some top tier team, it was Virginia. The next three weeks sure look like they could be loads of fun.

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09-10 Basketball

159 Responses to That is going to leave a mark

  1. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/09/2010 at 7:40 PM #

    There is nothing binding about a LOI. At least in the real world because State isn’t going to hold some 17 year old to a contract even if they could.

    I’m as confused as everyone as why Lowe starts Javi then puts in Mays at the 15 minute mark of the first half. Why State runs the first 5 minutes of the second half and plays half court the other 35 minutes when the Pack dominates when they run. State has some talented athletes but for some reason Lowe isn’t letting them run. I don’t get it and I have know idea why the players (and coaches) look so bored on the court.

    I know they care more than any of us but it just doesn’t show. Why doesn’t Javi get in Smith or Horner’s face when they miss a layup? Why doesn’t Smith get up on Javi when he throws the ball away? I don’t get the lack of passion.

  2. theghost 01/09/2010 at 7:42 PM #

    I thought LOI is void if there’s a coaching change? I’ve always heard you don’t have to sit out a year transferring if the coach leaves… or has that rule changed?

    And wrt coaching changes, can we please not reference Dan Snyder as an example to follow in how to manage personnel?

  3. Rufftown Wolf 01/09/2010 at 8:04 PM #

    It’s not Sidney Lowe’s fault the players can’t hit a free throw. He can’t shoot them for the players. Not to mention we missed at least 4 to 5 point blank layups. This team’s not done yet. They will beat some people they’re not suppose to.

  4. Wulfpack 01/09/2010 at 8:14 PM #

    No, it’s not Sid’s fault his players can’t succeed in playing basic basketball. However, it is entirely his responsibility that they can’t play basic basketball. That’s just the way it is.

  5. Wufpacker 01/09/2010 at 8:25 PM #

    ^^ Actually, it pretty much is his fault if his players can’t perform the fundamentals of basketball of which every college player should be capable. If he recruited them without them being proficient at these skills then it is incumbent upon him (or his staff) to correct this. If he can’t then it seems to me that he’s in the wrong line of work.

    Anyone asking for a mid-season coaching change needs to take a step back from the pipe. And there should be absolutely NO coaching change at any time in any sport until Lee Fowler’s desk has been cleaned out, so keep those cards and letters flowing (to the chancellor’s office, that is). With a little luck, perhaps that might happen sooner rather than later.

  6. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/09/2010 at 8:30 PM #

    There are coaching problems and that is clear but State is recruiting better than ever and you really can’t blame Sid for 10 or so missed shots in the paint, a few missed wide opened 3’s and missed FTs.

    For those that want Sid’s head. Who does State get? State doesn’t get big time coaches and to think we will is a mistake. Sloan, Valvano, Robinson, Sendek, and Lowe were not big names. State has maybe the best recruiters (a lot is probably Towe) since Sloan and I don’t see any reason to bring in some Div II coach until next year.

  7. D_Medlin 01/09/2010 at 8:35 PM #

    Wufpacker,

    Do you think free throws aren’t worked on by this staff? I certainly hope not. During the game, in crucial situations, it is the players responsibility to step up to the line and make those shots, period. Sidney can’t go out there and give them a pat on the back and wipe the sweat off their brow.

  8. Wulfpack 01/09/2010 at 8:36 PM #

    “Sid’s” recruits didn’t do a whole lot to help us today. I’ve been saying this for a long, long time – to succeed at this level a coach must be a good recruiter, but most importantly, he must be able to coach those players. Tony Bennett came into a bad basketball program, and just a few games in, he’s elevated them to something more respectable than they were. Why? Because the man is a coach in the true sense of the word.

    I’m not crazy enough to be calling for anyone’s head mid-season. That’s just silly. But if we finish DFL in the league, now 4 years in, and you think a few recruits are suddenly going to change that next year by any significant margin, I think you are mistaken.

  9. Wufpacker 01/09/2010 at 8:54 PM #

    ^^ “Sidney can’t go out there and give them a pat on the back and wipe the sweat off their brow.”

    Nor should he. And your point in saying that is? What exactly does a pat on the back and wiping sweat from their brow have to do with his responsibility for coaching the players and working on their fundamentals that are perhaps lacking a little? And “lacking a little” is an understatement, btw.

    And frankly, no, I don’t think they work on these things during practice. At least not enough. If they do work on free throws, rebounding, etc., and spend significant time during practice doing this, then whoever is doing the teaching needs to be replaced.

    And you are correct in saying that it is the players’ responsibility to step up and make those shots, as well as to perform and execute in general. But guess whose responsibility it is to make sure they are well prepared to do that.

    And to think I actually believed the “he can’t make the shots for the players” argument left with HWSNBN.

  10. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 01/09/2010 at 8:59 PM #

    There is no doubt that there are coaches that recruit and those that can coach and very few that can do both. UNC fans thought that Smith was a great recruiter and a bad floor coach, Matt D’Oh, recruited but couldn’t coach. State is lucky to have someone that can bring in talent after the past 15 years of thinking European ‘throw back’ players are the future.

    For the first time since the Valvano era State has Bball players that look like Bball players. Personally I don’t want to see anymore chubby slow guys that shoot 10 foot hook shots that take 10 seconds to develope.

  11. BassPacker 01/09/2010 at 9:02 PM #

    This was probably the biggest crowd at the RBC to date, still alot of empty seats so 16,000 plus is still a stretch IMO, more like 12,000. I’m not ready to call for Lowes head, as some already pointed out, he can’t make the fouls shots and as Lowe pointed out in his post game interview, open shots like Horner had in a set play has to be made at this level. Wood was interviewed, he said he is sure they will shoot free throws at practice…again, along with sprints. So Lowe is stressing basic’s in practice. Lowe is doing a good job coaching this team with the talent there, let me rephrase that, with the young talent there. The players are just not finishing the job on the court. You could hear the crowd moan everytime we went to the free throw line or every easy shot in the paint not go in. Only thing I fault Lowe for is his continued rotation of players. I think Wood only shot the ball once in the second half, my goodness, set some plays to get the boy open, he can change the game himself. If Wood had made that 3 midway the 2nd half, the place would have exploded along with probably the score in our favor. We are a much better team when we run up tempo, something Lowe seems to do then go away from it either due to personnel changes or coaching stragedy. Lowe is doing a good job coaching, the players are doing a terrible job executing.

    As far as when Fowler took the court, most people had already exited the seats for a bathroom break or concessions as it was halftime. Probably if most was still in seats, some disgruntled emotion would have come out, which I’m for one glad it didn’t, Thurl Bailey did not deserve anything spoil his deserved moment with PackFanNation.

  12. packfan03 01/09/2010 at 9:10 PM #

    “Nor should he. And your point in saying that is? What exactly does a pat on the back and wiping sweat from their brow have to do with his responsibility for coaching the players and working on their fundamentals that are perhaps lacking a little?”

    It has to do with letting your players grow. Players have to make mistakes to get better. Obviously we aren’t talented enough to legitimately compete with many teams in the ACC, and this loss stung because it’s a game we could have won. Landesberg was the best player on the floor tonight, Tracy (and our team) missed some key FT’s, and we lost the game.

    As far as the FT comments go, try and be objective. If you think VA will shoot 95% for the season, send me a message and we’ll make a friendly wager. Or you can just write me a check, b/c it won’t happen. It’s not coaching, all the time. It’s TALENT, TALENT, AND TALENT. Especially when it comes to FT’s.

    Scott Wood was interviewed after the game and mentioned how they have focused on FT’s in practice. He lamented that, unfortunately, that would continue based on their outing today.

  13. PhilipRiversWannabe 01/09/2010 at 9:15 PM #

    this one is all on sid’s shoulders. horrible lineups that make absolutely no sense. this is what he gets for believing in not practicing free throws. if you go back through sid’s tenure at state, there are at least 3 games each season that we would have won if we had just hit a few more free throws.

    sid’s gotta go if this program is to go anywhere

  14. packfan03 01/09/2010 at 9:31 PM #

    “there are at least 3 games each season that we would have won if we had just hit a few more free throws.”

    I don’t have the research to back this up, but I feel VERY confident that this is the case for many programs directed by historically great coaches in the NCAA, NBA, and in high school.

    Tracy S. is a 50-60% FT shooter, and shoots more free throws than anyone else on our team. Our FT shooting suffers. This shouldn’t be a topic.

  15. Wulfpack 01/09/2010 at 9:35 PM #

    I think that our talent ought to be better than UVA’s talent, a year after UVA finished last and went through a coaching change.

    I think a pattern has emerged with our FT shooting, and it isn’t good. I don’t really care whose “fault” it is, but it needs to be corrected if we are to have any hope for the season. We don’t have the kind of offense to be giving away points at the FT line.

    I think this game may well prove to be the breaking point for the season. Most reasonable Wolfpack fans could have seen losses to Northwestern, Zona and Florida. The Marquette win is a nice surprise. However, it doesn’t appear the Golden Eagles are headed much of anywhere this year in theb brutal Big East. Anyways, I don’t think many reasonable Wolfpack fans would have seen a home loss to UVA. Indeed, 0-7, 1-6 is a distinct possibility.

  16. Rochester 01/09/2010 at 9:36 PM #

    The free throw issue really boils down to a mental toughness issue. Most of those guys are probably 90 percent shooters in practice, when it doesn’t count. With the pressure of a game situation, even at home, they choke. This is the same kind of trait that allows us to blow 10 point leads. We don’t have a finishing instinct. We don’t have too many guys who step to the line wanting to be there. The only ones who can shoot free throws are Horner, Mays and Wood, and Wood never gets to the line. The other guys probably dread getting fouled, because in the back of their minds they’ve already missed the shot before they even shoot it.

    If Harrow and Brown can shoot free throws we are instantly improved, especially with them actually driving and drawing fouls.

  17. MA Wolfpack 01/09/2010 at 9:47 PM #

    It is definitely Sidney’s fault that we are short on talent. With that said, Brown qualifying would have given us a second legit ACC starter (IMO) and corrected the biggest hole we have at the 2G position.

    I’m not that upset because I understand that no coach can win in the ACC with the talent on this team. I’ve said all year the NIT is our best case scenario, and it will take a lot of luck and good bounces for that to happen (UF game did not help that cause). Next year is the year to really evaluate Lowe’s progress. NCSU could have let him go last year if we wanted, but there is not any point in firing him after this season. He’s going to lose a lot of games this season….that was determined the minute Brown did not qualify, Favors went to GT and Cousins and Wall went to Kentucky.

  18. packfan03 01/09/2010 at 10:00 PM #

    My thought on VA’s talent…We’d win six out of ten games against them. Let’s not rush to “Fire Sidney!” chants because of a loss against a team that has similar talent to ours.

    Landesberg is VERY smooth. I was extremely impressed with him today.

  19. JaxPackMan 01/09/2010 at 10:17 PM #

    Mike Wood, what a pussy of a ref. It’s too bad that calls become more of a factor in games than they should rather than the pure play of the athletes. Obviously, I’m looking at the game as a State fan, but the Horner charge call just baffles me. And the team clearly played differently from that point on. Not only disappointed about the call, but confused as to what can/can’t I do now in terms of what Wood is going to call next.

    I’m not saying that this one call lost the game, but certainly it was a huge turning point. For some reason, Tracy Smith must have missed at least a half dozen little shots around the basket that he normally makes. And we won’t mention the foul shooting issues.

    Why wasn’t Wood in the game more tonight? We certainly could have used his 3 ball.

    Anyway, I know a bunch of you will be all over Sidney about this loss. It appears to me though that he pulled the right levers but there’s a lack of execution on the players part. Granted, that ultimately comes back to the coach who recruited them in but the coach can’t play for them too.

    I was hoping the writers were wrong and that we would surprise some people. But after starting out 0-2 in the conference it is looking like another long year.

    Confused but still dedicated…

    Phillip

  20. Rufftown Wolf 01/09/2010 at 10:21 PM #

    Landesberg took over the game. He was the difference. No one could guard him. We should of face guarded him.

  21. tjfoose2 01/09/2010 at 10:49 PM #

    LOI’s are binding, unquestionably so if the recruit is of legal age (18 yrs or older) when signed. There has been some questions raised to their legality if the recruit is not of legal age when the LOI is signed, per the Western Carolina case after Harper left to become NC State’s head coach.

    Both Harrow and Brown were of legal age when they signed their LOI’s. Unless NC State volunteers to release them, their LOI’s are binding, regardless of who is coaching the Wolfpack next year.

  22. JaxPackMan 01/09/2010 at 10:57 PM #

    Rufftown Wolf your quote,”Landesberg took over the game. He was the difference. No one could guard him.” hit the nail on the head. After all the missed calls, missed free throws, missed three-pointers, and anything else that can be blamed on Sidney, Lee Fowler, the players, or people in the seats, the game really came down to Landesberg pretty much doing what he wanted to do at will. As you said, no one could guard him. He is going to be a star. That is the Pack’s problem. We have a squad full of very good role players, but nobody that really steps out as a star player.

  23. Conrad 01/09/2010 at 11:11 PM #

    I cant believe what i am reading here. You guys has to be the worstest State fan in State history. Half of you guys dont even know what the hell you are talking about when it come to bball & wolfpack bball. And the other half you joker want to be like Carolina & Duke in bball when Duke bball wanted to be like State & Carolina. But thanks to 2 administrations & 3 AD’s, 2 of the worst coaches in State & the ACC history our bball program suffer from there bad the decision.

    And now we have the dumbest parts of the fan base is out to destroy the bball program by firing Lowe. Do any of you fools have a ideal how much would that do to this bball program ? You dont & you dont care either. Can any of you clowns tell me when was the last time that State won a regular season title or the tournment ? Almost as long as some of you guys age. 1989 the ACC tournment ! So who knows more about suffering State sports other than me ? I know for sure that it is not non of you guys.

    So coming into this season who thought that this team would be 11 & 5 with 0 & 2 ACC which both loses was by 8pts ? So far Lowe has done one helluva of a coaching job in perparing this team without a solid nor ok PG in Gonz & Mays, Degand. While this offend is built around Smith inside game to the outside instead of reverse. And Horner is playing out of position because he should at the SF spot & play woods at the SG until next yr. Plus we need to get bigger & get Painter, Howell & Venderburg some game time experience. So this has nothing to do with coaching but everything about floor leadership & execution.

    My point is that we need to hang in there with Lowe because he is getting better with his coaching & the next 2 yr the recuriting is rolling into State.

  24. tuckerdorm1983 01/10/2010 at 12:18 AM #

    UVA showed how weak our team is.

    Smith is no center maybe play Vanderburg and Move smith to forward. Smith would be great if he had another big man to work with. They could rebound for each other.

    Horner is just slow, greatly improved each year but still slow

    Javi not a slash and dash point guard, but improving

    Degand I like him a the two guard spot

    Wood good but just a freshman

    Some of these others are going to have to step it up if we want to get to the NIT. Williams, Howell, Davis or somebody. Play VANDENBURG until he fouls out.

    Point is we ain’t got the horses in the barn to run with the big dogs. Big dogs may take a bite out of our butts again. Compared to last years team we are much better.

    WTNY!!!!

  25. Scooter 01/10/2010 at 12:34 AM #

    @Rufftown — totally disagree. missing free throws is a coaching mistake. You practice free-throws. There is a reason why they call it the charity stripe. We could also choose to blame Landesberg all you want to, but this game was ours to lose and we did. Mental mistakes or mental weakness in a team comes down to nothing more than coaching.

    The fans are voting with their wallets as it relates to NCSU basketball. No one believes or expects anything from this team, so no one is showing up to games. It sad that we’ve reached that point, but the writing is on the wall for “Coach” Fowler. If he can’t make the right decision after this season, then there is no need for him at our university. Sadly, his track record is clear.

    Man… that Thanksgiving Weekend result vs. UNC seems like years ago.

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