Gators come to town

The Florida Gators come to town for an ‘inflexion’ in the Wolpack’s 2009-2010 season.

To this point in the season, the NC State has tracked slightly ahead of expectations. Today’s game will be particularly significant to the Wolfpack’s season because of the ‘Florida’ name and the major conference in which the Gators play. If Coach Lowe’s Wolfpack is fortunate enough to be discussed for any postseason tournaments when we get to March, today’s game will truly be one of the swing games on our schedule.

Ignoring Florida for a moment, the Pack could effectively hold a 12-3 record before launching into the main part of the ACC schedule with a ‘must win’ when we host very beatable Virginia next Saturday, Jan 9th at noon. If one were to presume wins over Holy Cross on (Jan 6) and North Carolina Central (Jan 30th) then today’s game makes the difference between a solid 13-3 record or a respectable 12-4 that would require six conference wins to get to 18 wins. At the end of the year, 18 wins could be enough to earn an NIT berth; and non-conference wins over both Marquette and Florida could be differentiating factors for the Wolfpack.

This is the type of game that deserves a deeper look at the opponent. There is no reason for us add to all of the hard work already provided here by Backing the Pack.

Between opponents’ low 3FG% and low 3FGA/FGA ratio, Florida’s perimeter D is looking positively Duke-esque. They’ve turned around their interior defense as well. And they’re forcing lots of turnovers while avoiding fouls, which is the defensive ideal everyone should strive for. I wonder about that TO%, though. Their steal and block rates are right in line with last year’s, so the higher TO% could be a function of a slate of crappy, mistake-prone foes. But that’s pure conjecture; obviously, there’s much more to a team’s defensive impact than block and steal rates.

I have a hard time believing their FG% defense is that much better, and if we manage to not throw the ball away willy-nilly, second chance opportunities should be available.

The Pomeroy Predictor says flip a coin.

If we’re flipping a coin in the matter then one can only hope that the home court advantage can make the difference today.

Go Pack!

Post-Script: For some additional fun, please click here to see comments before last season’s match-up with the Gators that focused a lot on former Wolfpack recruit, Dan Werner. Backing the Pack penned the following blurb today:

If I recall correctly, Werner was much more highly regarded than Dennis Horner coming out of high school, but Horner’s going to have the better college career when all is said and done. Not to sell Werner short–he’s been a reliable role player throughout his career. He’s just never been able to take the next step, and he’s shooting a modest 31.9% from beyond the arc in 3+ seasons, which feels disappointing in retrospect.

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09-10 Basketball

111 Responses to Gators come to town

  1. Wulfpack 01/04/2010 at 4:46 PM #

    ^I disagree. You must make that free throw so that you are not at risk at losing the game. I have never heard of a coach to believe otherwise. We will have to agree to disagree, but this is basketball 101 man. They would have had to pull a Christian Laettner, and even at that it’s a tie game. We lost the game, a game that shouldn’t have been lost.

  2. bradleyb123 01/04/2010 at 4:50 PM #

    Just look at the percentages of what went down. It’s kinda like being down 1 point in football, you’re out of timeouts with time running out, and the other team has the ball. Sometimes you’re better off just letting them score because would you rather be down 8 with 2 minutes left, or down 1 with 5 seconds left? At least with the former, you have a shot. With the latter, not much of a shot.

    I’d rather Florida have the ball 75 feet from the basket down two points, than for them to be down three points but inbounding the ball. It took a miracle for them to beat us, but it happened. So be it. But we played it right, unless you get caught up with that 20-20 hindsight thing. Of course knowing he hit the shot makes us wish we had made the second free throw. But before it happened, we had to like the odds of winning.

    Did any one of us expect Florida to hit that shot and win the game like they did? Did any of you see ANY chance of us losing when Degand was on the line? Of course we hate the outcome. It was a loss. But we played it right at the time. It just didn’t work out, and it was dumb luck.

  3. bradleyb123 01/04/2010 at 4:53 PM #

    “^I disagree. You must make that free throw so that you are not at risk at losing the game. I have never heard of a coach to believe otherwise.”

    There’s where you’re wrong. Coaches call for intentional misses all the time in this situation. If the other team has a timeout, they don’t, because a rebound and a quick timeout lets them set something up. But if they don’t have a time out, coaches often take their chances with them not hitting the miracle shot, but only when there is almost no time on the clock and the team has no timeouts, like Florida. This time, they just happened to pull off the miracle.

    I’m still not convinced that Degand’s miss was intentional, but I thought it was a great strategy if it was. We had to like our chances of winning before that shot fell from orbit and went in.

  4. Fenrir 01/04/2010 at 4:59 PM #

    OK, you put me in my place… We do practice rebounding and free throws. I was completly wrong to even suggest that we don’t. BUT!!! What about breaking a half court press? HUH? What about moving to the ball? Sid and company gets a pass on fundamentals? I rarely see any State player follow their shot or move to the basket after a shot. These are just a few things that are missing.
    I don’t want Sid gone!! I want us to WIN and look like we know what to do on a basketball court.

  5. Wolf74 01/04/2010 at 5:04 PM #

    IMHO you must make that last free throw to take losing out of the equation. Then the worst you can do, if you don’t foul when they’re shooting a 50 ft shot is go to OT.

  6. VaWolf82 01/04/2010 at 5:19 PM #

    You are being far too simplistic if you think that the last shot, the last free throw, or the last 10 seconds in OT is the only thing that decided yesterday’s game. If State was capable of beating a half-court press, the game wouldn’t have been close….same for being able to shoot free throws (among the many other weaknesses). State couldn’t do either which just reinforces that this is a bad team.

  7. Rick 01/04/2010 at 5:42 PM #

    Va,
    You forgot our struggles with the zone defense.

    And by harping on the “lucky shot” they are trying to minimize all of the mistakes that made that shot possible.

  8. 61Packer 01/04/2010 at 5:51 PM #

    Maybe SFN can give us the official word on whether the Degand free throw miss was intentional or not. I sure hope the coaches didn’t tell him to miss it, but from my seat, the miss sure looked intentional.

    I don’t understand the strategy of intentionally fouling good free throw shooters as time is winding down, stopping the clock when we’re AHEAD, not behind. It’s the coaching staff’s fault that the game was prolonged long enough to give Florida a chance to score uncontested points and regroup. They seized the opportunity our coaches handed them, albeit a small one, to win the game. I feel sorry most of all for our players. Lowe was right on one thing, however, when he said after the game that “This one’s on the coaches.”

    Last night’s ending wasn’t a first for these coaches, either. Against Davidson here two seasons ago, we nearly lost in a near-identical finish when Stephen Curry barely missed from the same general area as time expired.

    And after the ending last night, I couldn’t help but notice the same dazed expression on our coaching staff’s faces that I saw at the conclusion of the Duke game two seasons ago, when Coach K stole his 600th at our expense.

    The beat goes on.

  9. ShootingGuard 01/04/2010 at 6:13 PM #

    All discussions regarding NC State basketball are “straw man”…it all starts with IF State had a point guard who can control the game with strong ball handling, create anything, make a play when everything breaks down, and, of course, GET OPEN to receive the ball and make free throws when it matters.

    State hasn’t had anyone like that in 20 years and State has been suffering for 20 years as a result—all in the most horrible fashion.

    From Ed Cota to Chris Paul to Nic Wise and Kenny Boynton, State has been outmanned at the most important position on the floor, and people wonder why the results turn out so eerily the same?!

    No, this is not WTNY, and Ryan Harrow will not in and of himself save the program, but, until State dramatically upgrades its talent level, in Allen Iverson’s “practice” voice, I have to say: “we’re talking about [who can get open and make a free throw at the end of a game, Farnold Degand or Julius Mays]…not [Monte Towe, not Sidney Lowe, not Spud Webb, not Vinnie Del Negro, not Chris Corchiani], we’re talking about [Farnold Degand or Julius Mays]…not [make a play, John Wall, or even McD AA John Scheyer]…we’re talking about [Farnold Degand or Julius Mays]”

    Tracy Smith is by far the best player on this team, and I am not even sure how many ACC teams he would start for, and the next best guys are Horner and JG who definitely would not start for anyone else except maybe UVA.

    It is actually more amazing that this team won at Marquette and almost won at Arizona than it is amazing that they turned it over under pressure, missed free throws under pressure, and still nearly beat Florida somehow before the curse crept in and answered the Parsons’ prayer.

  10. Wulfpack 01/04/2010 at 6:52 PM #

    “Maybe SFN can give us the official word on whether the Degand free throw miss was intentional or not. I sure hope the coaches didn’t tell him to miss it, but from my seat, the miss sure looked intentional.”

    Lowe said it was “absolutely” NOT intentional. Thank the good Lord!

    http://aboverim.blogspot.com/2010/01/gators-shocker-is-lowes-most-painful.html

    Lowe clarified his instructions for guard Farnold Degand, who clanked the second of two free throws off the front of the rim with 2.6 seconds remaining in overtime before Parsons’ game winner. There had been speculation that Degand missed the second shot on purpose.

    That wasn’t the case, Lowe said.

    “He was trying to make it,” Lowe said. “We didn’t want him to miss, no, absolutely not. We wanted him to make it just in case something like what happened, happened.”

  11. PoppaJohn 01/04/2010 at 7:58 PM #

    Okay, a day later, I’ve seen the shot on CNN, heard about it on NPR, listened to Dave Glenn talk about it – enough!!!!!!

    But let me say this, Wolfpack January 2010 would beat Wolfpack January 2009.

    That was far from a perfect game, but good things happened. We defended well, we hustled, when we couldn’t score inside we took good shots and hit enough from outside. I liked Sid’s coaching decisions – except for playing JM. I’d have Farnold play backup PG.

    We played both an SEC and a PAC10 ‘bubble’ team evenly. I’m not suggesting that makes us a bubble team, but maybe the NIT isn’t such a stretch after all.

    If they play that well through the season I will be encouraged. What will it take to make the NIT? Assume 2 more OOC wins to get us to 12, plus 4 wins in the ACC? The Virgina game will give us an idea if we should be dreaming about the post season. If they wax us, put the shorts away for the season.

  12. Wulfpack 01/04/2010 at 8:07 PM #

    ^In year’s past, NIT bids have gone to teams with 7 or 8 ACC wins. 6 is cutting it awfully close now that the CBI also has a post-season tourney.

  13. VaWolf82 01/04/2010 at 8:44 PM #

    Va,
    You forgot our struggles with the zone defense.

    I didn’t forget. I just didn’t want to depress myself by listing all of the obvious deficiencies.

  14. ncsumi 01/04/2010 at 8:54 PM #

    “The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care” is a coping mechanism I employ to help me wade thru the muck and mire of the worst climates and cultures that God and man has created. As well, that little ditty has proved beneficial in letting me come to terms with days/weeks/years of darkness that has descended upon our great university and its sports program.

    I am a long-time lurker — pardon the not so brief intrusion into the conversation. My rants are rare. Some irrational, illogical positivity may follow. I do not want to jeopardize any hope I may have to join the White Wolf Beer and Basketball Bash in March if it happens. If anything I say is out of line, I pre-tract them.

    I concur with both positive and negative posters (I am Gemini) I agree and am well aware that we suck (I learnt that 0-1 is a whole lot worse than 1-0 over 40 years ago): that LF is fully/partly responsible for our sad STATE of affairs and demise as well as secretly nominating the last four GOP candidates for Prez; that Lowe werent/aint/may never be a “good” coach; and that our problem lies not only with the administration and our coaches but as well with ACC officiating, current/former/future players, the press, now possibly omnipotent beings, but ultimately our overly positive/negative/apathetic fanbase.

    I want Sid to succeed. It really pisses me off to see the constant nick-picking, especially when it is valid and my dumb sub-conscious is saying the same shit. However, I contributed a 1.28 GPA to him and my other classmates’ miraculous run and to see him again leading us to glory would make the perfect me-feel-good story.

    Is there hope he is getting better? Yeah there was some questionable decisions in the game, but hasn’t perimeter defense been a problem? From couch level it looked like we solved that this game. I thought he had to bench “H”avi as well. He was on pace for a 20+turnover game, shooting desperation 30ft+ 3 pointers with 30 min left in the game, refused to go after loose balls, and then appearing to challenge his own coaches to the dreaded caged-death match. Thankfully Lowe is more mature than I. “J”avi reappeared and almost saved us. If coach, I would have tried the Kufor option. The question I guess is if Lowe can grow fast/far enuf.

    It is ugly but I enjoy watching this team. Maybe it is like the Bad-News Bears or something. Yeah I got’it that special-Olympian effort does not win games, but it don’t lose them either. That element has been missing a long time from State B-Ball. At least they are at times painfully pleasurable instead of just embarrassingly painful.

    We may lose the rest of our games. We will probably lose several of them due to stupid coach/player/announcer moves. However, I think we will make our opponents play for 40(5) minutes. This team has captured my interest, even to the point of motivating me to make anonymous public comments.

    One last comment before I get another beer — for State, suck is a team sport. Offensive/Defensive droughts affect everyone — coaches and active/bench players. It is like watching a disaster movie. Everyone knows it is coming and can do nothing about it. We have not had a coach/player who could pull us out of these prolonged, contagious funks in a long time. Hodge/Astur were the last guys who had the ability/attitude/confidence, but their teammates generally did not respond. I think Sid is doing a little (I ain’t saying he has been effective, but at least he has not been passive), to coach out of it.

    None of the players are there yet:
    CJ has the talent but refuses to take the reins and looks happier on the bench than in the game
    Smith’s style of play requires someone else to make a good pass.
    Javi/Havi – IF Javi shows up we are good
    Wood – maybe later in the year. Hasn’t showed the ability to separate/create yet.
    Howell – Flashes of potential. Over-effort right now, but maybe later.

    I think if someone emerges that can at least make a good play/pass/shot to shorten these team-wide droughts, our potential could soar. If it happens, I think it will be Howell or Wood later in the year (maybe too late). I wish it would be CJ now but I have not seen that “follow me” aggressiveness and absolutely zero risk taking from him.

    No matter how ugly, I think this team will be around at the end of most games. I can accept and enjoy that this year — especially when we win.

  15. 1.21 Jigawatts 01/04/2010 at 9:43 PM #

    You know you’ve hit the Big Time when you’re Crushing Defeat makes The O’Reilly Factor. Just saw Bill show the winning (losing) shot from yesterday during his “Reality Check” segment.

    At least he got our name right.

  16. AveryPage 01/04/2010 at 10:18 PM #

    it doesn’t hurt as bad seeing the tar-queers lose to college of charelston.

  17. Mike 01/04/2010 at 11:00 PM #

    OK, just for fun folks – UNX LOST to Charleston. Way to go Bobby Cremins. Cremins is truly one of the nice guys in college b-ball (and now I am starting to sound like Vitale so I will hush).

    Why did UNX lose? They were up 3 and Charleston hit a 3 pointer to tie at the buzzer, and went on to win in OT. The exact same thing I said this AM in this post and in several forum posts.

    Sid did the right thing by fouling at the end and not giving them a chance.

  18. choppack1 01/05/2010 at 9:31 AM #

    “Sid did the right thing by fouling at the end and not giving them a chance.”

    Yet, somehow we lost…in the same period.

    Obviously, UNC should have fouled, they could have left the floor 5 minutes earlier.

  19. Pack Mentality 01/05/2010 at 9:42 AM #

    Now that Sid has stated that he didn’t instruct Degand to miss the free throw, are the people who were so adamantly defending Sid’s decision to purposely miss (now shown to be wrong) going to come on here and say what a bad mistake Sid made by not instructing Degand to miss?

  20. packfan03 01/05/2010 at 10:01 AM #

    The larger point of the crowd defending Sid is that anytime you can force the opposition to need to make a 75 foot jumper for the win, you will more often than not win the game. Miss or make the FT, the gators were in a tough position with less than 3 seconds left. Again, I’d take that position every game.

  21. Pack Mentality 01/05/2010 at 10:05 AM #

    That’s kind of distorting the facts packfan03. There was a lot of talk specifically about missing that free throw.

  22. packfan03 01/05/2010 at 10:20 AM #

    Pack mentality, didn’t mean to offend…I just think (being the operative word) that people would not have been upset if farnold made the second either. We were in better position than florida either way. This opinion is my own. Since I agreed with the others that supported the miss, I thought my representation of the situation was accurate.

  23. choppack1 01/05/2010 at 10:33 AM #

    packfan03 – I really think that you are focusing way too much on the length of the final shot.

    This statement completely ignores the fact that we started this strategy w/ 10 seconds left. It could have just as easily been a rebound w/ 7 seconds left and them driving down the lane for a lay-up to win the game.

    We employed a strategy which changed the worst case scenario from OT to loss.

    It doesn’t matter whether the shot was 10 feet or 80 feet. This result was a distinct possibility w/ the strategy that Sid chose – people just get thrown off because the first time he used it, the strategy worked.

    However, I bet you ask those same dithering talking heads if you foul when a team is up by 3 if it gives them 3 more possessions, and you suck at the foul line – I wonder what kind of answer you get…

  24. packfan03 01/05/2010 at 11:43 AM #

    choppack1, the length of the shot and time on the clock are pivotal to the discussion because the strategy dictated the outcome. The point of this discussion is to illustrate how effective Sidney Lowe’s strategy was. In this case, the fouling strategy forced two possible outcomes (based on the game, not hypotheticals):

    1. Degand misses second free throw, forces a 75 foot jumper. Obviously this happened and did not work out in our favor. Again, I don’t think any reasonable person would be opposed to forcing this shot as a potential game winner. It simply didn’t work out.

    2. Degand makes second free throw, the Gators inbound the ball with 2.6 seconds remaining and have limited time to find an open shot. Again, I like our chances here over theirs. Worse case scenario, double OT.

    I understand your point regarding the “10 seconds” left in the game when this strategy started, but find it irrelevant because the strategy Lowe imposed quite frankly, worked. They threw a hail mary and unfortunately won the game. I think we all are asking ourselves, what are the odds? As someone pointed out, the shot was improbable enough that it ended up on the O’Reilly factor.

  25. choppack1 01/05/2010 at 12:05 PM #

    Only a few years ago GaTech hit a similar shot to end the half. People hit these kind of shots every week – they just usually aren’t to win a basketball game.

    And you say Lowe’s strategy worked – and that’s exactly why I think it’s a stupid strategy. He employed a strategy that increased the likelihood we’d lose the game in the given amount of time….Like I said, I’ve never seen any analysis done as to why it’s “smart to foul” when you’re up 3 and the other team has the ball – and there’s enough time left for your opponent to be able to foul you and have at least one more possession.

    A lot depends on how you look at risk and/or disasters. Some people think that “disasters” such as these are just a collection of flukes whereby lightning strikes twice. Other folks, like me, would seek to a strategy minimizing the chance of this disaster.

    And the way I looked at it – Lowe’s strategy assured them 3 chances to score 3 points.

    Further – he chose a strategy which played to perhaps our biggest weakness – foul shooting.

    Me, if I’m a coach, I’m happy as a pig in slop if I’m down 3 w/ 10 seconds and Coach Lowe chooses to foul my guys instead of making a 3 – especially when I can foul every guy that will receive the inbounds pass and there’s a damn good chance they’ll miss the foul shot. I go from thinking – we’re going to have to make a tough 3 just to tie it, to saying, “if we make a 3, we’re going to win this game!”

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