2009-10 ACC Hoops – A Jumbled Freaking Mess

Over the past couple of weeks, things finally settled down enough for me to watch more ACC basketball. I leave my esteemed comrade VaWolf to give you the best ACC analysis by the numbers anywhere, but here’s how I see things.

First, every single ACC team is fatally flawed. Most in multiple areas. Duke is probably the least flawed (iffy depth and athleticism), so in the ACC’s land of the blind, the Devils are the one-eyed king. But does anyone seriously see Duke as a legitimate Final Four contender? I work with several Duke alums, and they unanimously would be less surprised to be upset in the first round. And I agree – this Blue Devil squad has “first weekend exit” written all over it.

Second, the gap between 2nd and 12th is virtually nonexistent. Having watched each school (for at least partial games) at least twice, none of them seem good to me. At all. Even when these teams have their “all cylinders clicking” games, it’s clear they aren’t on sustainable paths to success. This ACCT is going to be hell to predict. I can’t see anybody making it to the finals to get spanked by Duke – but someone kind of has to.

Third, two teams in particular have been very disappointing. I hate to point the finger at my two favorite ACC coaches – but I’m looking at you, Seth Greenburg and Oliver Purnell. Each squad has a bonafide superstar team leader (Malcolm Delaney, Trevor Booker), and enough surrounding pieces (and/or a tested system) that should provide opportunity for upward mobility in a lackluster league year. Clemson has lost 3 consecutive ACC games, including an ugly home loss to Duke (that mojo from last year has completely gone away) and an unforgivable loss to a lousy Boston College team. The Hokies unfathomably needed a last second shot to squeak by the Eagles at home, then lost decisively in Miami today. Next Saturday, these two teams meet in what could be a bubble bursting game for the loser.

Who has positively surprised the most so far? Probably Maryland and Wake Forest (each about 4-5 slots higher than expected). But each of them lost at home to William & Mary. How seriously can we really take them? Virginia has really cooled off after their hot start, and nobody ever really did take them seriously when they were still unbeaten. But Tony Bennett is showing what disciplined play and good coaching can do when conference weakness presents an opportunity.

This reminds me of a Big Ten season in the not-too-distant past. Ohio State and Michigan State were a little down (much like the Holes this year), and nobody else really rose to the top. I believe that 7 teams got NCAAT bids (and the conference SOS was thus fairly strong), but nobody had a seed better than 6th. All but said 6th seed lost in the 1st round, and they lost in round 2.

Even more subjectively, there’s just not a single ACC team that I really enjoy watching play. I suppose we’ve all been spoiled – even when one’s favorite team isn’t so good (uh, we’re pretty used to that here), ACC fans still get treated to watching basketball at its most watchable, enjoyable level. Not this year. I like watching the aforementioned Booker and Delaney, but their teams overall? Ugh.

Notice how little we’ve talked about UNC. Why? They are every bit as inconsequential as the Wolfpack this year. Welcome to our level, guys! Too bad you can’t stay longer.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball ACC ACC Teams

87 Responses to 2009-10 ACC Hoops – A Jumbled Freaking Mess

  1. 66pack 02/01/2010 at 8:44 AM #

    there was a time 20+ years ago that going to post season NIT was thought to be a failed bb season.how times have changed.i believe one cause of poor teams in acc has also to do with coaches.if a bb school or a school wanting to be bb school was hiring a coach only roy, mike and now bennett would be considered as a hire.

  2. Wulfpack 02/01/2010 at 8:47 AM #

    ^I don’t have any issues with a Marquette team in the Big Dance. They have played just about everyone on their schedule very tough, and are currently tied for 8th in the rugged Big East. That’s good enough for me. They also have DePaul, Providence and South Florida next, so expect their tourney position to become more stable.

  3. Wolfy__79 02/01/2010 at 9:48 AM #

    when the time comes, i hope i’m not all too excited about an NIT bid.

    with marquette, any big east team that is able finish in the top half probably deserves a look at the ncaa’s. not a guraunteed bid, but a look. traditionally, that is what the ACC could expect. this year could be a little different.

    ugly vs being down. i think its a combonation of both. but also, the ncaa level of play is down considering the whole field. but that leans toward the style of play, instead of the quality of play. few teams understand the principle of solid fundamental bball. few teams will truly have an inside presence anymore, instead perimeter shooting is focused on. in part due to nba play, athletes just don’t work as hard down low… instead they work on shooting 3’s. it seems forwards are a dime a dozen now, and “power” forwards are a lost commodity. take richard howell for example, the kid is huge.. and he too wants to shoot three’s. with his size, he should be an immediate force on the inside. looking at point guards, they are equally misguided! it boils down to showmanship nowadays. half the time, they appear not to have the slightest clue of how to run an offense.. only dribble dribble dribble. even some of the higher rated pg’s don’t have a clue. coaches employ a fullcourt mentatlity to offense and never teach the halfcourt offense to the kids. and thus, you have a team with a princeton offense that can make an impact.. b/c of lost fundamentals amongst competition.. and yet they ultimately fail b/c of a lack of flexibility in style of play… 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other… ugly vs down, who really knows anymore…

  4. MA Wolfpack 02/01/2010 at 10:26 AM #

    I do not get the love affair with Tony Bennett. The guy inherited (arguably) the best player in the ACC, is 4-2 in conference right now and lost at home to William & Mary. Also, they barely squeaked by UNCW a few weeks ago. I still doubt UVA’s going to make the NCAA tournament and I’ll be shocked if they are not playing on Thursday of the ACC tournament. I would much rather have Gary Williams, Seth Greenburg or Oliver Purnell than Tony Bennett.

  5. frankiepack 02/01/2010 at 10:50 AM #

    I would gladly take anyone else than what we have now sorry!

  6. Wulfpack 02/01/2010 at 10:50 AM #

    ^You are free to feel that way. He has also beaten some teams that have whipped up on UVA for the past 5 years. What cannot be denied is that he has elevated UVA’s play and in just one year, has the Cavs in contention at the halfway point. Just for reference, we have had a guy around for four years that hasn’t been able to do that. So yea, UVA may suck, but they surely don’t suck as much as they did last year. We’ve sucked for all four years. So beyond that, I don’t really know what to say.

  7. D_Medlin 02/01/2010 at 11:10 AM #

    I think every win in the ACC has to be taken with a grain of salt this year. UVa being 4-2 right now doesn’t mean nearly what it would have last season at this time. The watered down nature of the ACC just makes every win less impressive. It stinks for those teams winning most of their games, but it’s the facts right now.

    MA Wolfpack brings up a good point as well. UVa did lose to William and Mary and sqeaked by a UNCW team that is really bad.

  8. ryebread 02/01/2010 at 11:13 AM #

    The love affair with Tony Bennett has to do with the following:
    – He won national coach of the year after having Washington St in the Top 10 most of the year. That’d be like Greenburg having VT sitting in the Top 10 most of the year and then winning the award.
    – UVA was dreadful last year with a very similar cast. You can clearly see what coaching and implementing a winning system can do.
    – Bennett plays slow down, disciplined, ball control offense paired with hard nosed defense. It’s a clear system and one that he was successful with at Washington St and that his dad was successful with at UW.
    – They’ve steadily improved during the year. MD is the only other team in the ACC that can say that. The rest of the league can be described as schizophrenic at best.
    – They were picked at the bottom (maybe next to last) by the “experts” before the season started. I personally had them about 7th and think that’s where they’ll finish up, but they’re exceeding expectations.

    IMHO, the love affair is deserved. UVA identified their bad coaching hire (DL), went out and made a strategic hire within their budget and clearly improved. This is EXACTLY what proactive leadership should do and is the type of leadership that I wish we had at NC State.

  9. rtpack24 02/01/2010 at 11:37 AM #

    Tony Bennett is a very good coach. They have little margin of error thus their loss to W & M. I do not like the style offense they run but the guy knows how to coach. UVA showed what happens when you put defensive pressure on their guards. Wonder if UVA people are saying wait til Bennett gets his own players.

  10. BJD95 02/01/2010 at 11:38 AM #

    ^^ Very good synopsis of Bennett right there.

  11. Wulfpack 02/01/2010 at 11:41 AM #

    One thing is for sure, I don’t think you’ll find Craig Littlepage, UVA boosters and UVA faithful doubting the hire. He is exactly what they wanted after a disaster with Leitao.

  12. MA Wolfpack 02/01/2010 at 11:47 AM #

    Ok, you guys got me curious enough to pull the numbers. Let’s just take this season. UVA has losses to South Florida, Penn St (check out their record), Bill & Mary, and Auburn. UVA’s best win is either GT at home or @ UNC. Looking ahead at their schedule, UVA better beat NCSU on Wed b/c they have plenty of tough games left with Wake, MD twice, @VT, @Clem, @Miami, Duke. Even at 4-2 and being favored to get to 5-2, I do not see this team winning 8 conference games.

  13. Wolfy__79 02/01/2010 at 12:11 PM #

    i think its fair to have such a high opinion of bennett thus far.. he’s is looking good. i think the skepticism comes later on in their tenure when success is repeated, and improved. agreed, uva and md are really the only teams “improving.” duke looks weak at the moment, clemson has had some recent problems, unc-ch is not good, georgia tech is underachieving.. as for the rest of the conference, all seemingly underachieving.

    its very difficult as an NCSU fan to see this happen in year one with the uva basketball team. true, he inherited a good player.. but he somewhat picked up where leito (sp) off. if you were to compare the uva and NCSU jobs some Wolfpack faithful would argue that the NCSU job would be the more prestigous of the two. although that is true given our distant nc’s, to me, uva represents a safer/higher upside to many coaches. being in the ACC, but kind of under the radar.. versus NCSU, for some reason.. we still aren’t under the radar. people want to beat virginia, people want to kick NCSU’s ass. pair that with coack K and roy williams… ntm wake forest and you have a damn tough hire.

    if not now, at some point we’ve doubted sidney lowe’s overall coaching ability and promise of being the successful leader desired to be a national contender. but having doubts about this, is argued that he does represent an upside too. i think he, since being one of us, has one of the highest upside in coaches we can find. he’s not a big named coach, but being a true Wolfpack product.. he can achieve at the highest level in Raleigh. a coach bennett, HWSNBN, most young coaches, even calapari, would find that this is one of the few toughest programs to coach in basketball. our high expectations remain steady, despite many years of sub par play. so it is hard to see the worst ACC team from a year ago achieve thus far this year.. but we must hinder our comparisons in that regard, IMO. not many coaches that are out there can step in our program and make an impact right now. it would take a rick barnes or someone that accomplished to do so.. and even he may not be the right fit. we require a coach who can recruit and teach his recruits sound basketball. we know we have one part of that scenario, given the talent at guard.. i can argue that sid may also be decent in the other dept as well. i’m not satisfied with our current standing and also tired of the wtny theme.. hopefully those days are soon to be over. but if i can’t say this clearly enough, the NCSU job is one of the toughest in the country, lets not compare what uva has “accomplished” in a year to what could be accomplished at NCSU.

  14. Wolfy__79 02/01/2010 at 12:16 PM #

    … … i meant low talent at guard now… and promise of good recruiting with next year’s additions…

  15. Wolfy__79 02/01/2010 at 12:18 PM #

    speaking of recruiting, has there been any news on anymore signees/prospects. i looked through our list last night and some remaining big names… didn’t know if anyone had any info..

  16. WolftownVA81 02/01/2010 at 12:20 PM #

    I’ve watched just about every UVA game this year (we live where we can get the local TV) and they are good. The losses this year reflect their youth in my opinion. However, they seem to be improving much more than our team. My wife and I will be at the game Wednesday and I hope I’m wrong but I see a beat down coming at the hands of Landesburg much like that of Singletary in years past. These guys play tough D and Bennett doesn’t put up with lack luster play or crappy attitudes. Just ask Baker who had to stay home on the road trip to Wake after bitching about losing his starting position to a freshman. They weill press us all night and will get many turnovers. Prove me wrong guys. Go Pack!

  17. 61Packer 02/01/2010 at 12:39 PM #

    Tough D- what a concept……….

  18. whope90 02/01/2010 at 12:51 PM #

    Well, UVA is for real, not top tema real but a real chance to get a solid ncaa bid and maybe a sweet sixteen appearance. Teh defense they played last night was smothering on UNC in which they tightened up on the big men and dared unc to shoot and thru in some zone! Hummmm, imagine if a cetain state coach would have done that last week? Hummm. UVA has same players and a coaching change,well hiring a real college coach does! Today on the EL Sid show he talked about how state missed shots during their scoring drought against those heels? The heels may not even make the ncaa’s because they have 6 of their remaining conference games on the road,but will beat us of
    course because we can’t make shots. It is so sad to see other schools make solid hires and go to the NCAA”S and we can’t “make shots”. Do we play defense? Zone, when was the last time we played a zone since the last coach we had? Well, look for the pack to go 14-10 and 2-7 this week with tough road games a gtech(very talented players)and a well coached hard noes defensive team like UVA, oh let’s hear hear those comments fro coach lowe” loss against UVA, We didn’t make shots! and GTECH, we could not stop them? Waiting for El Sid to become a good college coach is like waiting for Obama to enact change in Washington! Well, hos is that doing?
    WTNY !!!

  19. whope90 02/01/2010 at 1:05 PM #

    PS, NC state tied for last place today with Miami and UNC is 2-4.
    State Plays tow road games and has a road game at Miami and Unc.
    So i guest the FSU road game will be our only road win and maybe BC our last home win, so that will make us 3-13 conference and 15-16 heading whoa wait, we will not play in the Acc t if we finish last correct?

  20. MA Wolfpack 02/01/2010 at 1:19 PM #

    whope90, everyone plays in the ACC tournament and they always have so I have no idea where you got that idea.

    Wow, this UVA thing is getting out of control. We have now seen our first “Sweet 16” comment. VAWolf can correct me if I’m wrong since he anlayzes NCAA bids, but I think UVA will need 10 ACC wins to get a bid with their horrid out of conference record. There is ZERO chance that UVA wins 10 ACC games. ZERO.

  21. Wulfpack 02/01/2010 at 1:30 PM #

    Lunardi currently has UVA out of the dance but on the bubble. I seriously doubt they are a tourney team. But if they can win 8 or 9 games, maybe get a win in the ACC Tournament, then they could get in. Who really cares at this point. All I know is they are better than last year. How much better remains to be seen.

    It appears the polls have taken note of the shoddy play in the ACC as only Duke and Georgia Tech are now ranked in each poll. Duke is 9th in one poll and 10th in another. GT is 19th and 21st. Lunardi currently has 6 teams in (Duke, Wake, Clemson, GT, Florida State, Maryland).

  22. wufpup76 02/01/2010 at 1:30 PM #

    “^I don’t have any issues with a Marquette team in the Big Dance”

    ^Agreed. I don’t have a problem with Marquette being in. My main point was that if their current profile – which is not very good – suggests an at large berth then it may not take much for just about any team to right the ship, so to speak.

    The bids are definitely there to be had. Let’s see who earns them.

  23. philliepacker 02/01/2010 at 1:35 PM #

    D_Medlin ^ What does that say about UVA’s wins and to take them with a grain of salt,on the other hand you bring up the Sid beat Dook and FSU? Yes they are 4-2 in a very weak acc but our 2-5 is in a strong acc? Also check once again our ocs it is a joke!

  24. VaWolf82 02/01/2010 at 1:38 PM #

    I highlighted two recent examples of teams that dug themselves out of deep holes to make the NCAAT last week.

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2010/01/25/how-to-get-out-of-a-hole/

    Looking at UVA’s remaining schedule, they have a number of opportunities for the key wins that they would need to impress the Selection Committee.

    5…. Duke
    23… Wake Forest
    30… Florida St
    37… @ Clemson
    50… @ Maryland
    50… Maryland

    UVa certainly has a chance to make the NCAAT without getting 10 wins in the regular season.

  25. MA Wolfpack 02/01/2010 at 2:25 PM #

    Thanks VaWolf. My thought is they would need 10 total. 8 + 2 in ACCT, 9 + 1 or 10 in the regular season.

    Out of the 6 games you listed, I will be impressed if UVA is better than 1-5 in those games.

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