Wake Forest 67 NC State 59

State lost to Wake last night in a game that, unfortunately, played out almost exactly as I expected. (Link to game story) The Las Vegas line favored Wake by 9.5 and the Demon Deacons won by 8.

The following sums up the game in short order:

The ACC’s top rebounding team held a 48-40 advantage on the glass, shot 42.6 percent and led for nearly the whole way but needed to hold off a second-half comeback bid by the Wolfpack to wrap up its fourth straight win.

Javier Gonzalez scored 18 points, one shy of a personal best, while freshman Scott Wood added a season-high 11 points and Tracy Smith had 11 points and 10 rebounds before fouling out with 5:28 remaining for N.C. State (8-2, 0-1).

The Wolfpack were 6-for-21 from 3-point range and turned it over 16 times yet nearly rallied from 14 points down. The Wolfpack made it a four-point game with 14 1/2 minutes left before Wake Forest pulled away with a 14-4 run.

For the game, the Wolfpack shot the following:
.339 overall from the field (21-61)
.286 from behind the arc (6-21)
.579 on free throws (11-19)

Backing the Pack has his statistical analysis up (Link).

In addition to his comments that follow I would add that I would have liked to have seen a few less offensive rebounds for Wake but I appreciate Coach Lowe trying out the zone (that ended up being poorly executed).

Opportunity was there–Wake clicked in fits and starts but didn’t play well at the offensive end overall and averaged less than a point per possession. But State couldn’t shoot for shit, hitting 28.6% of its threes and 36.6% of its twos. After Dennis Horner cut the Deacs’ lead to four, the Pack missed several chip shots on ensuing possessions, let the Deacs score an easy put back after a missed free throw, and they never seriously threatened again.

NC State’s bench scored seven points on 2-15 shooting.

A few individual story lines worth noting:

* Scott Wood had a ‘break-out’ performance and really looked good on both ends of the court.

* Jordan Vandenberg provided some solid minutes in the middle as Richard Howell and DeShawn Painter continue to be very inefficient with their opportunities. Vandenberg logged 11 minutes while Painter & Howell logged 11 minutes between the two of them.

* Without Javi Gonzalez‘s offense, there is no telling where this team would be. Wake’s first big run of the first half happened while Javi was on the bench.

* The boxscore has Josh Davis at 13 minutes; but that doesn’t feel long enough. I think he should have been on the floor longer last night.

* Tracy Smith came public with his thoughts of the officiating (Link). Smith was in foul trouble on Sunday night on some calls that were very frustrating. Equaling frustrating were two blatant Wake fouls against Javi Gonzalez that got no call and led to five Wake Forest points in transition. That was really tough.

Current Position
For what it’s worth, the 8-2 Wolfpack currently hold the #44 spot in the RPI having played the 93rd toughest schedule in the country. State has the following five games before launching into our ACC Schedule with a must-win home game against Virginia on January 9th:

Dec 23 @ Arizona
Dec 29 Winthrop
Dec 31 @ UNC Greensboro
Jan 3 Florida
Jan 6 Holy Cross

* A 4-1 record against this slate would create a very surprising 12-3 record before the bulk of the ACC.

* A 3-2 record against this slate would effectively wipe out any hope for a surprising NCAA Tournament berth and generate an 11-4 record, which is at least one game better than most pre-season prognostications would have had.

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09-10 Basketball

31 Responses to Wake Forest 67 NC State 59

  1. BSIE80 12/21/2009 at 10:24 AM #

    We are a young team that will improve. We actually could have one this game if we had made all of those layups.

    Glad Sid is playing all the players he is.
    The only way for Howell, Painter, and JV to improve is to get the minutes.
    Davis definitely needs more minutes. He is great to watch.
    Wood needs to play the 2 and sit CJ on the bench. He just doesn’t have the scorer’s mentality.

  2. tvp1 12/21/2009 at 10:27 AM #

    This would actually be a decent team with Zo Brown on it. The gaping hole at 2 guard is just killing us right now.

  3. eas 12/21/2009 at 10:32 AM #

    I really want to point out positives with the program (so tired of being negative) but honestly the 8 point loss is only on paper. We were basically down by double digits most of the game and a really bad Wake Forest team dominated us. I was amazed at how bad Howell looked. Very slow and lazy.

    Wait…I have some positive thoughts. Wood, Javi and Vandenberg had a good game. I am really hoping for a miracle this year. Also, I was at the game and am still amazed how much better the LJVM environment is than the RBC. Other than the dumb Deacon coming out on a dang motorcylce all the time, the atmosphere is pretty darn good.

    Part of the miracle I asked for could also include ditching the RBC for Reynolds again.

  4. Thinkpack17 12/21/2009 at 10:38 AM #

    Recently our big men have had pretty good footwork and sophisticated post moves, but our league doesn’t reward it. Al-F walked damn near every time he touched the ball, including a blantant one that didn’t get called during our late run. Someone should show these refs tapes of this game, Handsjob and Josh McRoberts…they would be ashamed.

    Javi gets raked and tripped on one end and we get called for 3 hand checks on the other end.

  5. WolfQuacker 12/21/2009 at 10:46 AM #

    Vandenberg needs to shoot layups in practice all week. Nothing but layups. Lots of points left on the table to <8 foot shots.

    And for God's sake, can the coach teach these kids how to inbounds a ball? Such horrible execution of fundamental plays keeps leading me to conclude Lowe is not a solid coach. Time will tell, but man I'm sick of loosing on "the little" stuff like this! Officiating sucked!

  6. cc4ncspack 12/21/2009 at 10:53 AM #

    The most frustrating thing that I saw last night, was the lack of rebounding after a Wake miss. We have got to box out. On the other hand, I think that this group of kids that came in this year are gonna be pretty darn good in the future. Hopefuuly Sid can manage to have enough wins to make the tournament this year. GO PACK!

  7. robzucc 12/21/2009 at 11:03 AM #

    Bottom line is we do not hit enough shots from 3pt area so the inside game is not effective. Sure it works when we played cupcakes but, all the ACC has to do is pack it down low against Smith and it is over. Yes, I agree how bad we needed Lo Brown. We have no alternative plan of action it’s get the ball inside first. Javi plays his a## off and why that doesn’t rub off I don’t know.

  8. Thinkpack17 12/21/2009 at 11:13 AM #

    We got the ball inside plenty, we just didn’t score the basketball. Tracy altered his own shot to avoid the shot blockers, Dennis feared he would be blocked so he held the ball for 10 seconds until he was actually blocked. And then he got blocked again after backing down a 6-1 PG. They blocked/fouled us down low and dared us to make our free throws…which we didn’t.

  9. StateFans 12/21/2009 at 11:23 AM #

    This team is not quitting. They are hustling and are limited more by their ability than their effort. This was my key barometer heading into the season and I want it to continue to be the key.

    Some players have shown improvement from past years – like Javi – and we will have to wait and see if the freshmen shot improvement as this season evolves.

    NO DOUBT that Lorenzo Brown would have been a HUGE difference maker for us this season. That is not an ‘excuse’, rather a legitimate observation.

    We are 8-2 and are positioned to play ourselves into the NIT. That is much better than I expected at this point in the season.

    If I can continue to see the effort from the team and maybe some improvements from bench coaching, then I can swallow criticism for 10 more months to see the impact of this recruiting class on the roster.

    If that happens, then next year is an absolute ‘no-excuse’ year and we would have to make the NCAA Tournament (without being on the bubble).

    If the bottom falls out of this season, then I don’t know what my conclusions will be until I experience it.

  10. Gene 12/21/2009 at 11:25 AM #

    Tough game against Arizona on Wednesday. If it was a home game, I’d like our chances better, but after a late starting game on Sunday and then traveling cross country two days later may slow us down.

    I don’t want to use the word fatigue, I just can’t think of a better word., Traveling long distance, sitting in airplane seats for several hours, etc. causes a certain sort of fatigue that takes some time to unwind from.

    Hopefully we can pull out the win.

    “Wood needs to play the 2 and sit CJ on the bench. ”

    Who then plays the 3? Horner? Davis? Davis works hard, but has very little polish. If Davis could hit a few jump shots or free throws, I’d feel better about him playing more or even starting.

    Javi needs to work on his free throw shooting. Other than Horner and maybe Wood, we aren’t a good free throw shooting team. Hope this gets corrected, because we weren’t this bad at the start of the year.

    “They are hustling and are limited more by their ability than their effort.”

    I’d throw in lack of experience for the big men, like Painter, Vandenburg and Howell (missing all the practices from October through November shows, he plays like he’s going against high school competition still).

  11. LKNpackfan 12/21/2009 at 11:29 AM #

    A pedestrian observation – if JDavis could hit a damn FT he’d definitely log more minutes. He gets to the line a lot when he’s in the game but his atrocious percentage (20%, 3-11 on the season before last night) really limits his usage.

  12. coach13 12/21/2009 at 11:57 AM #

    My meaningless take is as follows. We have a great rollplayer team, minus the scoring threat. I’m afraid the WF game is mostly what we have to look foward to sprinkled with an occasional hot shooting game/upset. If we had 1 player who could just take over and put pressure on the other team. I applaud Javi for trying to be that person last night. Sid has put together what I think would be a good supporting cast. We just need a star or two. I think Smith is solid but not exceptional. I thought he missed too many easy shots(3-5 footers), and does not have the power I thought, as some of those he missed would be jammed in with force by a stronger player. Still he’s good, just not great. Degand is not a good shooting guard. He may can shoot well, but is not looking to. CJ does not belong on the court much as I see it. Vandenburg will be a big help in a year or 2. Davis will eventually be the leader of this team, may not be the best player but love his drive/enthusiasm. A good step foward for Wood but still thought he would shoot better.

    I was surprised to see 3 of our guys around the basket when WF shot last night and 1 man would blow by them and get the rebound. That was disappointing. Let’s box out. Finally I hope I do not see Smith start moping when things don’t go his way as last night. I was hoping we had rid ourselves of that mentality. I thought he pouted and in turn did poorly getting back on D.

  13. jyellis 12/21/2009 at 12:15 PM #

    Although I cannot be sure, I suspect you meant to say “A few individual story lines worth noting:”

    Beyond that, I have little to add to the analysis. Glad to see you back blogging. The forums are great, but it’s too much to sort through when you want a quick update. Happy Holidays! Go Pack!

  14. robzucc 12/21/2009 at 12:17 PM #

    Here is another observation. We don’t go to the basket strong meaning the big men. Horner needs to be in the game at times to knock down some 3’s because he showed me last night by bulking up he has lost whatever speed he had and can’t get off the floor with any hop quick enough to stay with the athletes in the ACC. He gives me the old flashback of Herb Sendeck, and by the way was a good fit for his style offense. It almost looks like we are playing with a mixture of the Princeton style and what suppose to be the new Sidney style(one year away from that) offense. Yes the hustle is there no doubt(at times) but, no identity on who they are. This starting line-up will not be the one that enters the ACC tournament. That hopefully will be the case.

  15. haze 12/21/2009 at 1:22 PM #

    Not a pretty game last night but, again, solid effort. Javi’s really become the leader out there and is playing well. Was nice to see a hint of Wood’s potential as well. It was notable that the shot that got him going was challenged 2pt’r (no time to think!).

    Most importantly, the 2G and Zo Brown comments are dead on. For now,
    – CJ has the tools but is VERY passive.
    – Julius can score but lacks the size/speed to generate his own shot.
    – Farnold is OK in fast game but simply lost in the half court.
    With Brown, it’s a different ball game. Without him, we’ll need great games out of Javy, Dennis and Tracy to win much of anything.

    For the 2G, as hard as it is to change a players mental model, Sid has to try with CJ. He has the shot and athleticism, he just has to amp up the aggression. Heck, I don’t even care if he isn’t particularly productive. He just has to make the D respect that position on the floor.

  16. rtpack24 12/21/2009 at 1:40 PM #

    Tuff game to watch. When Davis and the Aussie were in the game it was difficult for us to score. CJ looked like a freshman numerous times. Davis is very limited offensively. I did think Degand looked good and shouold have played more. Did anyone else notice that all the freshman’s jersey has their name spelled in a straight line and the other player’s names are in an arc. Howell is a talented player but until he loses some weight it is going to be hard for him to com;ete.

  17. Clarksa 12/21/2009 at 1:47 PM #
  18. 61Packer 12/21/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    IF we could just hold on to the ball……..IF we could just rebound better……..IF we just played better defense…….IF this, IF that…blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda.

    WHAT IF we had a coaching staff that showed any signs of improvement in their fourth season? WHAT IF we shot about 74% in the second half of every game? WHAT IF we had players who looked confident instead of lost every game? WHAT IF we could eliminate most of our stupid turnovers? WHAT IF we could play consistent team defense? WHAT IF we ever looked good on tv again?

    Wolfpack basketball is like like having all your teeth knocked out but still smiling because you can’t wait to see what the tooth fairy will leave under your pillow tomorrow morning.

    And speaking of leave, the Wolfpack submarine has left the dock and the Voyage To The Bottom Of The ACC is full steam ahead. More like the Voyage Of The Damned if you ask me.

  19. DRW 12/21/2009 at 2:55 PM #

    61packer: As much as I hate to say it, you’re spot on. Why anyone would have any confidence in Sidney Lowe’s ability to lead this program where it needs to go, is beyond me.

    I see nothing to lead me to believe we will ever be worth a damn as long as he is coach.

  20. robzucc 12/21/2009 at 5:45 PM #

    Does anyone think if we were to let Sid go after this year Lorenzo Brown, Ryan Harrow, Cothran and maybe CJ Leslie will still come here? If and I say if, we get all 4 of them here next year and we don’t make it to the NCAA Tourn, then there is no question he goes. But if he goes before next year and they don’t come, what are we looking at then in terms of years and recruits. When will we be good again.

  21. COLLEGEB413 12/21/2009 at 7:27 PM #

    I thought woods did good, wake is just to dang tall

  22. wolfmanmat 12/21/2009 at 8:37 PM #

    Guys, Herb put us behind the 8-ball. Look at his recruiting…how can we expect ANY coach to come into a team with NO talent and succeed. Now, it can be done at UNC/Kentucky/Kansas/UCLA, but these programs are NOT NCSU. Like it or not, since the whole Jimmy V era, we have become irrelevant. It is difficult to convince 4 star prospects to come to a school that has been irrelevant their enitre lives…these kids are 18 years old, do we expect them to remember the 83 team and the David Thompson era? Absolutly not. It will take time for us to build a respectable program again and if we don’t give Sid time, then we go back to square 1. Our program can’t afford another Fowler coach search now that we are starting to get decent recruiting classes.

  23. TheWolf 12/21/2009 at 10:00 PM #

    wolfmanmat is exactly right. We were left with no talent when Sendek left. We have got to give Sid this year and next year. We still have got a shot at a decent season. One loss to Wake on the road does not make this season a total loss. I think that the NIT would be a “success” for this team. Next year with the recruits we have, then we should be a tourney team, no doubt. At least Sid cares about this school and it’s heritage and tradition. We are headed in the right direction. I will stand by that. If the freshmen progress, we could have a great season (considering the expectations for this team). Everyone seems so negative. There’s no need to freak out yet. We’re only 0-1 not 0-16.

  24. papackman 12/22/2009 at 7:16 AM #

    The Pack played descent against Wake but never good enough to win. Having to sink three’s to get the W is reminiscent of the Herb era. This club needs to work on fundamentals….offensive rebounding, passing and foul shooting. Not to take the easy whine, but the officiating was very one side too. Wake had two extra player on the floor all night …. IMO!!!

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Wake Forest 67, N.C. State 59 « Cardiac Pack - 12/21/2009

    […] the game story and box from Pack Pride and some analysis from Backing the Pack and StateFans […]

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