State can’t stay undefeated – can Farnold Degand get is *(#&$ together to help this team?

In relatively even match-ups on the hardwood, one can often point to a single statistic that makes a difference in a one-game battle. This pretty much describes NC State’s loss tonight at the RBC Center to the Northwestern Wildcats.

For the night, NC State shot a putrid 2 of 18 for 11% from the three-point line with Javi Gonzalez hitting the Wolfpack’s only two threes (2 of 6)

It doesn’t get any more simple than that.

The Wolfpack missed wide open looks…half contested looks…quick ball reversed looks…you name the look, the Wolfpack missed it.

Additionally, our (expected) weak guard play had a difficult time (1) creating opportunities for the offense against the Wildcat’s extended zone defense and (2) struggled to control Northwestern’s point guard, Michael Thompson who finished the night with 22 points and was able to easily create/convert drives for key buckets in the last five minutes of the game.

Tonight was a night when you could really see where Farnold Degand could help this team. His athleticism, length, quickness and shooting ability are all superior to those of Julius Mays. I love Julius Mays and appreciate his contributions to this team. But that doesn’t make my statement about Degand less true. Who knows the impact Degand could have had on both ends of the court if he was playing.

Boxscore

Again, it really doesn’t get any more simple than this.

The Wolfpack falls to a respectable 5-1 for the season, at least one game better than most fans expected at this point of the season. State has another important out of conference clash on Saturday at 3pm on the road at Marquette. The Golden Eagles are a surprising 6-1 to start the season, losing by one point to Florida State in the finals of the Old Spice Classic on Sunday. (Link)

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09-10 Basketball

149 Responses to State can’t stay undefeated – can Farnold Degand get is *(#&$ together to help this team?

  1. beer03 12/02/2009 at 12:49 PM #

    Look at our guards: Mays, Javi, Williams, Wood (at one time or another). All are slow and/or mediocre ball handlers. I was at the game, and when we tried to reverse the ball against the zone, their zone beat us to the other side of the floor almost every time. Against man to man, we are too slow/unathletic to make our own shots from the guard position. Northwestern was well coached but not terribly athletic. Wait till we play somebody really athletic, our offense will be a shambles……and while I’m talking, I don’t understand Lowe’s substitution patterns (I use the term loosley) at all.

  2. theghost 12/02/2009 at 12:54 PM #

    Frankie – I don’t think recruiting is as easy as some make it out to be, but I agree that Lowe should’ve done a better job addressing it sooner. My point is there’s a middle ground between “nothing is his fault, Lowe is perfect” and “fire him immediately.” I’m willing to accept that a coach may make some mistakes and fail in some areas, so long as he recognizes those mistakes and addresses them.

  3. Thinkpack17 12/02/2009 at 12:54 PM #

    I am still optimistic about our future, you like to see growth at this point in the season. Javi’s growth was a plus that came out of this game, next game who knows what we’ll see. Maybe you were just too drunk to see something you liked. Maybe you’re still drunk.

  4. Class of 2009 12/02/2009 at 12:58 PM #

    “When you talk about 5 years ago – are you talking about HWSBN last team who started out 13-1 or the team before that which made the Sweet 16?”

    Yeah, I’m talking about those teams… You know, the ones that were succeeding at about the maximum you could expect out of that “wait till the last minute” style of play. You know, the teams that got bumped out of the sweet sixteen because when our money had to get put where our mouth is to play up to a high standard when the going got tough, we folded. Yep, you got it, choppack, I’m talking about THOSE teams. I’d love to see what this type of game play looks like when it’s potential is reached if we were able to start 13-1 and go to the sweet sixteen with those other teams…

    “In no way should Lowe be on any kind of hot seat now. He is one of few coachs that show such a passion for the school they are at and show they are committed to improving. Now that he has all his players in for the most part, and even more so with a great class coming in you have to give him at least 2 more years.”

    Major dittos, Sargent. After we got within 4 for the third time in the second half and blew a couple FGs, they showed Sidney’s face and he was visibly irritated at the performance as well (you could even read his lips which said the same thing mine did: “…wow….”). Look at last night from a weakly manned Sidney team and compare it to one of the weaker Herb teams. Then compare that with the fact that Herb was able to accomplish to a fairly decent (“decent” is an appropriate term) level. THEN consider the recruiting class Sid is coming in with. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I’m NOT a Sidney cheerleader, but I want to see what the long-term plan is rather then crying when we aren’t winning NC’s 3 years into a coach’s tenure. Let’s give him his “amazing recruiting class” and see if he still sucks. If so, I’ll be the biggest advocate for firing Sid.

  5. jbpackfan 12/02/2009 at 1:23 PM #

    Mays, CJ and Wood all have to be more aggressive if State is going to get better. They just stand around and wait for something to happen. On occassions where Mays attacks by driving or even just taking a couple dribbles to the lane, he is usually able to score. When Javi penetrates good things tend to happen. Lowe needs to get these guys to play a relentless, attacking style. I am disappointed with CJ’s play so far. I would have thought he would be more of a slasher as opposed to a spot up 3 point shooter.

  6. iBeenPacked 12/02/2009 at 1:44 PM #

    I like that Javi is starting to show some savy, but he isn’t good enough to carry the team. Unless Mays and Wood can learn to penetrate and create, teams will just shut down Smith and i wouldnt hold out any hope for post-season. Mays in particular looked like his mind was somewhere else and lacked any sort of enthusiasm for the game.

    can’t remember who said it a while back, but i will reiterate: if i am in a bar fight, i want Horner at my back

  7. nycfan 12/02/2009 at 1:51 PM #

    This was my first opportunity to see the Wolfpack play, and it is difficult to impossible to guage a team on one game, so take the following comments/thoughts in that context:

    * Results aside, Wood did not have the confident shooting stroke I expected from a guy portrayed as a pure shooter. His shot is flat but most of all he looked tentative to me at times. Could be that the hesitation is just the result of a freshman seeing an aggressive zone for the first time. He is a tad slow getting the shot off, but I was impressed at times with some of his defense. He was more athletic than I imagined and moved his feet well defensively … for a freshman.

    * Zone offense is tough in a man-to-man world, and State surely struggled with it last night. I was a little confused about the near refusal to go to the baseline against the 1-3-1 — NW was very aggressive up top, extending the top three guys well out beyond the three-point line, which left a lot of soft space behind the three and in the corners. I understand a concern about allowing a trap in the corner if you don’t move the ball; I dunno, maybe it is an execution thing.

    * Guards were poor passers in the half-court offense. Passes were not crisp or thrown from proper angles a lot of the time.

    * There was far too much dribbling by the guards to no avail. A lot of clock was wasted in dribbling side to side that did nothing to get the offense in gear.

    * Javi had some nifty QB passes for breaks in the second half. I think he was head & shoulders above the other State guards, which is why I assume he was not guarding NW’s PG — State cannot afford Gonzalez to get in foul trouble.

    * Painter looks … lost. He has freshmanitis, I guess — weak footwork, weak understanding of where he should be defensively and offensively and a (resulting?) passive attitude. He *looks* like he should be able to develop into a player who helps out, but he is really raw right now.

    * Horner plays very hard and smart and I think is getting the most available out of his physical abilities.

    * Right now, Mays simply has to play. Javi played 36 minutes and must have a break from time to time. CJ Williams seems as clueless as Painter, except a clueless wing is more dangerous than a clueless post player a lot of the time due to ball security issues. Without Degand, there is no one else to back-up the 3 guard positions. Which is why I tend to agree with the SFN proposition that Degand could make a big difference for State (at least at this level of competition) by taking Mays out of the PG equation and at least splitting time on thw wings. Degand is a bigger, quicker, more athletic player than Mays and I think could offer better defensive support in a RESERVE capacity.

    * This team didn’t quit, didn’t turn on itself and kept playing hard until the buzzer. We couldn’t always (often?) say that in the last 2 seasons.

    * I am curious to know what Sidney Lowe thinks an up-tempo offense looks like. I know Northwestern would cause problems for an up-tempo team with their style, but there was no evidence of a team trying to implement up-tempo offensive fundamentals or style (some poor spacing on potential fast break attempts emphasized that).

    * Not only were State’s three-point shots missed frequently, they were missed badly most of the time, too.

    * Smith is a beast. Watching him last night, I had a hard time figuring out why he didn’t play much more last season, but now he is the heart and soul of the team. It will be interesting to see if he can get his shot off over the bigs at FSU, Dook, UNC, GaT, Clemson, WFU, etc. He should be able to create some space which should help a lot. Defensively is where I think he may struggle; he is strong but he doesn’t have great defensive footwork and he doesn’t seem to have the hops from standing position to make-up for that against quality bigs.

    * On a related note, the game last night was very physical and for all the no-calls that could have been fouls in favor of State, I saw a lot of no-calls that if called differently could have led Smith to be in serious foul trouble all night — which would have been the end for State. I just don’t see the Pack winning games against quality opponents if Smith isn’t on the floor 35+ minutes.

  8. Thinkpack17 12/02/2009 at 2:12 PM #

    I agree on the uptempo call that everyone is throwing out. We definately are no UNC running on everything. I only saw one real instance when EVERYONE seemed to have run on their mind. That was when Scott Wood came down with an uncontested rebound, everyone turned their heads and took off…it looked great…and then Scott promptly dribbled the ball off his knee. I liked that Mays came over to reassure him. Sidebar:

    1. UNC runs on everything…we only run on misses.
    2. If the rebound goes to Mays’ side we still ain’t runnin.
    3. If we get a stop, the ball goes to Javi’s side or if Javi gets the rebound himself, THAT’S when we run.

    I’m a bulls fan so forgive the comparison but Mays is our future Lindsey Hunter. Mays is a good leader and teammate, Javi is Kirk Hinrich…I think he will mature this year and be a solid PG. He may not say much in practice, he may not lead anywhere else…but on the floor he is our general. Soon he will have to fight for his spot with the hope of our franchise the young, the talented, Derrick Rose…I mean Ryan Harrow.

  9. Sw0rdf1sh 12/02/2009 at 2:26 PM #

    Fair enough LRM.

    In regards to the comments on Farnold, heck, the kid can run and had some positive moments (and embarassing) at the end of last year. He and Javi would “probably” have looked together last night…at least better than Mays did. Mays just did not seem to be comfortable against the pressure last night, and there wasn’t any penetration from him. Javi did penetrate, did not look scared at all, and probably would have complimented FD in that defensive situation. Who knows?

    It isn’t a stretch to ask where the heck he is right now….

  10. frankiepack 12/02/2009 at 2:32 PM #

    Ghost- Agreed that recruiting is a crap shoot for sure, (lets keep this in mind too,about all these big time players we have coming next year as well)but giving that it is now Sid’s 4th yr ,you want to give him a pass year 1 ok fine hell will give him one for year 2 if you like.
    I do not understand why we have not even come close to having at best acc caliber guards? Sid’s first year ,our success was based solely on Asturs health and shoulders. Sid gave us JJ ,he knew full well that he was a one and done player,but he had no backup plan for a replacement?
    Our offense since Sid has been here remains a guard dribbling in most case side to side ,with 4 guy’s watching him. If we come across a team strong underneath that keep Tracey away from the ball we are in trouble.
    Sid was quoted post game as saying “They did not play well on D.” I know we are talking semantics but should it be We?

  11. jbpackfan 12/02/2009 at 2:34 PM #

    IF Farnold is healthy, he should play 25+ minutes a game. He was doing pretty well 2 years ago prior to the injury in the Cincinatti game. A rotation with Javi, Farnold, CJ, and Mays could work pretty well, with Javi and Farnold get the majority of the minutes, and Mays getting spot duty (10 minutes or so). Mays is being asked to do too much right now.

  12. bradleyb123 12/02/2009 at 3:10 PM #

    What can you say? When the shots aren’t falling, they’re not falling. If that was our biggest (only?) problem last night, I’m not that concerned. Come on, this is a young team. We’re going to lose some games. Most of our guys have only played six games now. Hopefully we’ll move on, learn from this, and get a little better before the next game.

  13. Pack Mentality 12/02/2009 at 3:27 PM #

    “Only 13 turnovers”…this is a lot if you’re only going to score in the 50s. It’s not much if you’re going to score in the 80s.

    Getting to within 4 points is not as close as it seems when you’re playing such a low scoring game.

    This was the first game I’ve watched this year. If I continue to see them play in such a way that says it’s going to be a low scoring affair – we’ll keep it close, and maybe pull one out at the end if we have good 3 point shooting – I will not be watching much this year.

  14. TarHoleHater16 12/02/2009 at 3:32 PM #

    I know exactly what the deal is with Degand. I heard a certain player talking the other day about it. he said that degand refused to go to florida for the tournament so he could attend his sister’s wedding. Lowe warned him that if he didnt make the trip he would be off the team. degand went to the wedding instead. so im next to positive that he is no longer with the team at least temporarily.

  15. jbpackfan 12/02/2009 at 3:38 PM #

    except that he was in uniform last night

  16. theghost 12/02/2009 at 3:53 PM #

    Frankie – I’m not for giving any passes, I think a coach should be held accountable for 1) doing the best with what talent he has, and 2) improving the talent. I don’t think Lowe needs a pass for year 1 – I’d say he outperformed with the talent he had. After that, he hasn’t had a PG. Y2 was probably an underperform, although I don’t know how much better anyone could’ve done with that group. Last year was much the same, but definitely improved. Complaints about the offense looking like crap are true, but that’s how offenses look without good guard play.

    So the argument is about recruiting. When you say “acc caliber guard”, are you talking guard who could start at Duke as a freshman? Or guard who could play at BC as a Jr/Sr? If the former, there’s not 5 of those a year, and no, I don’t expect any coach to win many of those battles in Raleigh right now – that takes a lot more than 3 years. If the latter, he did have a plan, even in Y2 with Degand. Lowe should’ve done better – that’s a strike against him. Fine. If he’s not working to fix it, fire him. But he is, and the situation is improving. To say he doesn’t have a plan isn’t valid – Degand in Y2 and Y3, Brown in Y4, Javi as a backup – that’s a plan. If the criticism is that stuff happens to everybody and he hasn’t dealt with it very well – maybe that’s fair, maybe that’s too harsh – good debate. If the criticism is that he shouldn’t have allowed Degand to blow out a knee or Brown to fail algebra or whatever, or that he should be signing TWO ACC-caliber players at every position every year, or this preemptive chicken little “Harrow and Brown won’t ever come here” BS, that’s irrational.

  17. whitefang 12/02/2009 at 4:15 PM #

    My lord. We are in the ACC. Hell we practically started ACC basketball. We have a basketball heritage. We were a basketball school for many years. We’ve won 2 national championships and many ACC championships. Our coach is in year 4 and we get our butt pretty much handed to us by North freakin western on our own home court. We got a full schedule of UNC, Duke, Wake, Clemson, etc ahead of us. And people still defend Sidney Lowe. It’s not his fault, the kid got hurt, the kid couldn’t pass math, its not his fault our offense looks like a trainwreck, blah, blah blah.
    Don’t mean to insult anybody, but damn short of a miracle that ain’t likely to happen, we are going to suck out loud this year and for the foreseeable future unless we make a coaching change after this year.
    Got that off my chest and I feel a little better.

  18. Class of 2009 12/02/2009 at 4:15 PM #

    I think I’m in love with theGhost. Brilliant analysis. Just to augment your argument, if the debate is about recruiting, how does landing the recruits he has landed in the last month or two make him a bad recruiter? I am actually really excited about what he can do if he becomes ACC competitive. Right now, we are a “terrible” team and Sid is showing a lot of recruiting prowess. If we become a “decent” team, will Sid’s recruiting improve as well?

  19. Thinkpack17 12/02/2009 at 4:15 PM #

    “If I continue to see them play in such a way that says it’s going to be a low scoring affair – we’ll keep it close, and maybe pull one out at the end if we have good 3 point shooting – I will not be watching much this year.”

    See ya later!

    With one slasher currently getting minutes and everyone and their mother knowing that we want the ball to go into Tracy Smith we’ve got to make our threes. Teams will be double and triple teaming him and Sid has asked him to trust his teammates and kick the ball out to the open guys. If you get the ball in your spot and you can’t knock down the jumper we are in for a long year. We don’t have to talent to pull away from quality teams. If this is not your idea of Must See TV I suggest you save yourself a lot of trouble and get into “So you Think you can Dance.”

  20. bradleyb123 12/02/2009 at 4:31 PM #

    whitefang, glad you got that off your chest and you feel better now.

    I expect you to copy and paste that entire post, and substitute TOB’s name for Sidney, and post that here, too. Then you will feel completely better. Because a lot of what you wrote about Sidney can pretty much be said for TOB, too.

    Can we expect that from you any time soon? TOB won 25% of his conference games this year. Sidney won 7 of 17 conference games last year. That’s over 40%. Looks like Sidney outclassed ole TOB in their third seasons as head coach.

  21. wolfonthehill 12/02/2009 at 4:48 PM #

    Putting it simply…

    Tracy shot 50% and had a solid game, as always.

    The rest of the team shot 10-for-38.

    Tracy made 9 FG’s, the rest of the team 10.

    It’s not complicated – if you can’t put it in the hole, you lose. (have a field day with that one if you’d like…)

  22. jbpackfan 12/02/2009 at 4:50 PM #

    Horner was 3-5, so how about 7-33 for everyone else.

  23. theghost 12/02/2009 at 4:54 PM #

    to the contrary, whitefang, I think what I said is that it is his fault, in part. If you’re upset that he’s lost some games he should’ve won and the guard play isn’t up to par yet – I agree, some of that is his fault. Yesterday’s performance was awful, he’s got to fix that now – there’s no reason we should have to wait for Ryan Harrow to play better than that.

    But Lowe didn’t invent being at the bottom of the ACC – that part isn’t his fault, you can’t blame him for the past 20 years, and if you’re upset that he hasn’t won an ACC championship already, then I’m sorry, but your expectations are too high. Regardless of what dominance we remember, 18 year olds don’t remember 20 years ago. Recruiting isn’t a video game. So what do you want him to do – resign (since he won’t be fired), or correct the mistakes and address the issues? And what are the issues if not talent?

  24. wolfmanmat 12/02/2009 at 5:31 PM #

    Guys, we were supposed to be bad this year. Northwestern is a tourney team this year. We shouldn’t be upset by this loss. The team played hard. They lost because they shot poorly and didn’t break the halfcourt trap. I would have liked to see more penetration and more movement on the offensive end. But, I think it is clear that we are going on the right path. Javi is good. He is a solid PG. I wish other State fans would notice this rather than crucifying Javi. He is FAR better than Degand and has developed nicely. Tracy is good. Painter looked good last night. Horner looked good. We need a shooting guard to step up and we need a small forward who can penetrate. Next year, we fill these holes.

  25. wolfonthehill 12/02/2009 at 5:37 PM #

    Losing to a potential tourney team – at home – without one of their top players – when it’s a team that’s NEVER made the tourney before – in Year 4 of a new regime at State – makes me feel no better. Sorry ’bout that…

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