The State of State 2.0 – Men’s Basketball

Editor's Picks NCS Basketball Rankings & Lists Required Reading Stat of the Day28

With the season officially getting underway this week, I thought I would share some historical stats on our men’s basketball program. Similar entires for football, women’s basketball and championships can be found here and here and here.

Men’s Basketball

I. Records
ACC Record: 397-401 (.497)
ACC Record Pre-Fowler: 331-323 (.506)
ACC Record Under Fowler: 66-78 (.458)

State’s all-time ACC winning percentage has dropped 0.9% since Lee Fowler has been AD. Our ACC winning percentage in the 9 years under Fowler is 4.8% worse than the preceeding 47 seasons but is not statistically significant (Z test with a p-value of 0.3436, p-value less than 0.05 would be significant).

ACC Record 1954-1990: 282-214 (.569)
ACC Record post-Valvano: 115-187 (.381)

m-basketball-acc-pct
Note: Red points are ACC championship seasons

II. Championships
ACC Titles: 10 (1954-1956, 1959, 1965, 1970, 1973, 1974, 1983, 1987)
ACC Titles Under Fowler: 0
National Championships: 2 (1974, 1983)

All-Time ACC Titles
t1. Duke – 17
t1. North Carolina – 17
3. NC State – 10
4. Wake Forest – 4
t5. Georgia Tech – 3
t5. Maryland – 3
t7. South Carolina – 1
t7. Virginia – 1

All-Time National Championships
1. North Carolina – 5
2. Duke – 3
3. NC State – 2
4. Maryland – 1

Current ACC Champ: Duke
Current National Champ: North Carolina

III. Lee Fowler’s Tenure (2000-2001 to 2008-2009)

ACC Records by Team
1. Duke: 107-37 (.743)
2. North Carolina: 95-49 (.660)
3. Maryland: 83-61 (.576)
4. Wake Forest: 78-66 (.542)
5. Boston College: 34-30 (.531)
6. Virginia Tech: 38-42 (.475)
7. NC State: 66-78 (.458)
8. Georgia Tech: 60-84 (.417)
9. Miami: 33-47 (.413)
10. Virginia: 59-85 (.410)
11. Florida St: 55-89 (.382)
12. Clemson: 52-92 (.361)
m-basketball-acc-records

ACC Titles
1. Duke – 6
2. North Carolina – 2
3. Maryland – 1

NCAA Tournaments
1. Duke – 9
t2. Boston College – 7
t2. North Carolina – 7
t4. Maryland – 6
t4. Wake Forest – 6
6. NC State – 5
7. Georgia Tech – 4
t8. Clemson – 2
t8. Miami – 2
t8. Virginia – 2
t11. Florida St – 1
t11. Virginia Tech – 1

Head To Head Records (ACC Regular Season only)
t1. Florida St: 10-4 (.714)
t1. Virginia Tech: 5-2 (.714)
3. Georgia Tech: 10-6 (.625)
4. Virginia: 9-6 (.600)
t5. Clemson: 8-6 (.571)
t5. Miami: 4-3 (.571)
7. Wake Forest: 7-11 (.389)
8. Boston College: 2-4 (.333)
9. North Carolina: 5-13 (.278)
10. Maryland: 4-11 (.267)
11. Duke: 2-12 (.143)
m-basketball-head-to-head-reg

Head To Head Records (All Games)
t1. Florida St: 12-4 (.750)
t1. Virginia Tech: 6-2 (.750)
t3. Georgia Tech: 11-6 (.647)
t3. Virginia: 11-6 (.647)
5. Clemson: 8-6 (.571)
6. Miami: 4-4 (.500)
7. Wake Forest: 9-12 (.429)
8. Maryland: 5-13 (.278)
9. North Carolina: 5-14 (.263)
10. Boston College: 2-6 (.250)
11. Duke: 3-16 (.158)
m-basketball-head-to-head-all

ACC Finish by Year
m-basketball-acc-finish

As usual, comments, observations and questions are welcome.

About WV Wolf

Graduated from NCSU in 1996 with a degree in statistics. Born and inbred in West "By God" Virginia and now live in Raleigh where I spend my time watching the Wolfpack, the Mountaineers and the Carolina Hurricanes as well as making bar graphs for SFN. I'm @wvncsu on the Twitter machine.

Editor's Picks NCS Basketball Rankings & Lists Required Reading Stat of the Day

28 Responses to The State of State 2.0 – Men’s Basketball

  1. jbpackfan 11/10/2009 at 5:38 PM #

    Nice summary. The last graph is just lovely- a complete roller coaster under Herb. Maybe we’re on the upswing! : )

  2. Go Army 89 11/10/2009 at 6:07 PM #

    Very nice display of stats.

    I have to disagree with jbpackfan.

    If you look at the last 5 Sendek years they were some of the nost stable in school history. (except for the 5 straight years in the cellar before Herb was hired. Rollercoaster ride characterizes the history of the program. We had some very hi-peaks and very low valleys. Under Sendek the highs were not quite high enough I guess, the real roller coaster ride continued when he left.

  3. ncsu05mit10 11/10/2009 at 6:55 PM #

    I’d imagine a lot of programs resemble ours in the 80’s and 70’s. The Illinois, Syracuse, and Maryland’s of college basketball seem to have better than decent teams every few years– enough where they can at least make a run deep into the tourney. I don’t mind the roller coaster– at least every couple of years you put together a really solid team. With the exception of UNC, Duke, UK, this seems to be the norm.

    That’s what frustrated me so much about Sendek– why such a long and slow process to be just slightly better than average? Wake and GT could get an ACC Title, pop into the top 10, get a Final Four appearance, and then have a down year.

    I mean, “if you’re not first, you’re last.”

  4. Go Army 89 11/10/2009 at 8:03 PM #

    I certainly understand the frustration. He did not hang a banner. But I’d rather be consistently in the upper echelon trying to break into the Championship than the doormat. Sendek played for an ACC Tourney title three times and missed the reg season title, (by finishing second) once. He played for 4 titles in 10 years. Maryland slipped in there once. The rest of them were won by UNC and Duke.

    We have truly gone from being “not first to last.” I prefer competitive, contender, up and comer to “on the rise.”

  5. Primewolf 11/10/2009 at 9:26 PM #

    The 3 year period for the first 25 years or so is amazing. good work, thanks.

  6. LRM 11/10/2009 at 9:29 PM #

    “He played for 4 titles in 10 years. Maryland slipped in there once. The rest of them were won by UNC and Duke.”

    I don’t mind the argument, but he only played for three over 11 years (’97, ’02, ’03); we had Sid in ’07.

  7. packof81 11/10/2009 at 10:19 PM #

    There ain’t nowhere to go but up. My expectations are real low. So I won’t be disappointed if we struggle. But it sure would be nice if the team pleasantly surprises everyone.

  8. ADVENTUROO 11/10/2009 at 10:22 PM #

    Dogbreath,

    You are actually an astute observer. The statisticians call that a bi-modal distribution. It usually means that you do NOT have a single family of random points, but something in the data to suggest that an element changed, which influnced the distribution.

    A lot of statisticians also call that the “Dolly Parton” spread…for obvious reason.

    I think the reason is that we had ONE element change…the position of NCSU Admin and their Salem styled witch hunt, assisted by the N&O (who had the gall to mourn Jimmy V’s passing and to eulogize him). Come to think of it, the N&O has actually done a better job of remembering Jimmy V’s accomplishments than has the NCSU Admin.

    If we could rid ourselves of the jealous and vindictive (paranoid) shackles of the NCSU Admin, then the distribution would start to normalize.

    Jimmy V’s curse is still on the RBC….and it is costing Jimmy Rutherford big bucks….someone needs to convince JR to have a statue of Jimmy V cast and then “force” the NCSU Admin to come out and let us erect it in the lobby….maybe even name the court….

    Hope this season is better, the team sure looked loose and cohesive the other night….

  9. graywolf 11/10/2009 at 11:07 PM #

    I still don’t think Sendek had a shoot for the stars mentality but rather a lets try to get to the moon mentality. Secondly,he chose to leave NC State and was not fired as so many people seem to think. Personally, I’m glad he’s gone to the desert and we have moved on. I am not at all pleased with the success of coach Lowe as of yet but I do think he can recruit. I am not convinced he is a floor coach as was his mentor Valvano, who was the best there ever was on the floor.
    We are in a wait and see pattern with Lowe and it will take time which many of us old timers don’t have a lot of…….it would be nice to see us win again. It really does make you think that there is a Valnano curse on the pack but one cannot blame him if it really is true…..we should all be ashamed at the way the man was treated.

  10. Texpack 11/11/2009 at 9:59 AM #

    The most telling statistic from above:
    ACC Record 1954-1990: 282-214 (.569)
    ACC Record post-Valvano: 115-187 (.381)

    This means that over a 16 game schedule we have gone from a program that would win slightly better than 9 ACC games/year to a team that wins about 6 ACC games/year. I would also argue that the overall strength of the ACC is not what it was throughout the 70’s and 80’s in particular.

    If you can average 9 ACC wins, you will be competing for a title in almost all of your above average years. Because that’s the kind of basketball program I grew up with and experienced as a student at State, it’s my standard for where the program should be.

  11. HPWolf 11/11/2009 at 10:10 AM #

    Good graph, it shows exactly what Lowe has done to the program. We are at the bottom and one could say that we have nowhere to go but up, but we could also stay at the bottom until a change is made. I still believe that Lowe is not the man for the job but I also know that he is here for at least two more years. He will get a chance to prove what he can do with a decent recruiting class. I have recently read most of the major college basketball preseason publications(Lindy’s, Athlon’s, SI, etc.) and they all have us picked dead last or next to last. I do believe there may be one bright spot on this years team. Wood is a pure shooter and capable scorer. A guy that may be able to bust a zone defense for us. If Lowe can find anyway possible to build some kind of team chemistry maybe we can win a few ACC games get out of the cellar.

  12. HPWolf 11/11/2009 at 10:18 AM #

    One other thing people, there is no curse on NCSU sports. Not on the bball team or the football team(injuries). There is bad recruiting and bad coaching and an AD that doesn’t know the difference. Please stop with the curse thing.

  13. PackMan97 11/11/2009 at 11:41 AM #

    Go Army 89, I agree that the later Herb years weren’t a roller coaster. Oscillating between .400 and .600 isn’t enough of a high or low to really be a roller coaster. It is however enough of a rocking motion to make everyone seasick.

    At the end of the day, the issue is championships. You gotta win some. You have to beat Duke and Carolina. Winning just “enough” isn’t good enough.

  14. jbpackfan 11/11/2009 at 12:07 PM #

    The true measure of a college basketball program is championships. Nobody remembers what your record was in a given year, but they do remember if you won the ACC Championship. Valvano won either the regular season or tournament 4 times in the 80s. We all know what the 90s and 2000s brought- 20 years of nada, zip, zero. I just want State to win something!

  15. 61Packer 11/11/2009 at 12:17 PM #

    I believe that there IS a curse on NCSU sports, and it’s the delusional WTNY mentality that has brainwashed our school’s administration and now threatens to contaminate a major chunk of our fan base as well.

    Many if not most of you who post on this site are resigned to a 4-8 football season, followed by another Voyage To The Bottom of The ACC in basketball. We EXPECT it! Does it HAVE to be this way year after year?

    I wonder just how many more losing ACC seasons, seen coast-to-coast on ESPNU, our school will have to suffer before enough of us stand up and say, “I’M MAD AS HELL AND I’M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!!”

  16. gotohe11carolina 11/11/2009 at 1:35 PM #

    given that i can’t play M.W.2 because of some technical issues and infinity ward’s forum is down to due to the volume of complaints i figured i’d engage in my second favorite activity, mourning my fanhood…

    my beef with fowler has far less to do with the records of our respective teams but with the method he went about to make both his major hires. having to take the seventh guy interviewed for the roundball coach made our school look really poor, and the worst part is that he didn’t learn after coach cal shut the door, he went right back to the public and announced his next failed attempt. the football hire was another head scratcher, but it looks like the typical diametric opposite coaching hire that most schools go for.

    but keep your heads up guys, it could be worse, you could always be a…

    …

    nm i couldn’t think of anything worse…

    btw bass fishing update, we pulled down another regional title this weekend… http://davidsonnews.net/2009/11/10/n-c-state-duo-captures-fishing-title/

  17. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 11/11/2009 at 1:51 PM #

    Grey, Thanks for pointing out Herb Sendek abandoned NC State and was not fired. Matter of fact, NC State stood by Herbert for years and years after he had proven he wasn’t a top ACC coach. He left the program in the middle of the night with the first school that would take him.

    He had been looking for other jobs for 5 or 6 years but no one wanted him. He left NC State and helped to fuel a media campaign about what an awful place NC State is to coach that began the disgraceful search that led to Lowe. Remember all the comments on national television about how horrible NC State fans are and how great Sendek is? Do you think that just happened?

  18. bradleyb123 11/11/2009 at 2:34 PM #

    This is not really on-topic, but since it’s about NC State basketball, it’s not really off-topic, either. 🙂

    WRAL is reporting that Ryan Harrow has signed his LOI. They also mentioned that CJ Leslie was in attendance for the signing, and that Ryan quipped that CJL would make “the right choice”. Scout.com now has NC State in CJL’s top three, along with Florida and Kentucky. I’ve heard Harrow and CJL have become good friends, and that CJL has been seen hanging out with current NC State players, as well.

    Of course, only time will tell. But this is reassuring (IMO). If we sign all our current commits, get them cleared, qualified and on campus, and also haul in CJL along with them… call me crazy, but we might have a fav-five type of phenomenon on our hands next year.

    I’m not trying to start a pro-Sidney debate here. Just wondering if I’m the only one that thinks this is good news (the CJ Leslie part).

  19. JPPack 11/11/2009 at 2:38 PM #

    Interesting information, but I have a question. I don’t come here much, but it seems that every single “article” by SFN staff that I read eventually gets around to attacking Lee Fowler. In this particular one, there are a lot of interesting and well presented statistics. However, it’s clear the primary motivation is to degrade Lee Fowler. The lack of success in our overall athletic program has left me relatively ambivalent, so I’m really not pro- or anti-Lee Fowler at this point. But my question is more about this site. Is it truly a place where NC State athletics (as mediocre as they are) are discussed, or should it be renamed fireleefowler.com?

  20. ncsufan13 11/11/2009 at 2:44 PM #

    ^ Nice try Mr. Fowler. =P

  21. bradleyb123 11/11/2009 at 2:44 PM #

    JPPack, I’d vote for the latter part of your last sentence. 🙂

  22. ruffles31 11/11/2009 at 3:38 PM #

    All the writers for this website do is denigrate Fowler and never have a good this to say about him (yeah, right):

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2009/10/22/the-best-thing-lee-fowler-has-done-at-nc-state/

  23. howlie 11/11/2009 at 3:45 PM #

    I’m looking at individual straws instead of the whole bushel.

    There’s no explanation for our piss-poor record against BC. They’ve been a very beatable team the entire time in the league…

  24. bradleyb123 11/11/2009 at 3:46 PM #

    ruffles31, read the third paragraph in that blog, as follows:

    “I don’t have any problem actually praising Lee Fowler when he does something to deserve praise. You see, that is the problem! — the guy actually does so little; and when he finally does something it is usually so inept and incompetent that he never gives us anything to praise. That’s not our fault!”

    They ARE giving Fowler an ounce of credit, while slapping him in the process.

    Another quote near the end:

    “[This praise] also ignores that Fowler couldn’t find the energy, motivation or competency to hire Harper in March (instead of late April) and thereby allow her a fighting chance to do some recruiting. Whatever the excuses and rationality for moving painfully slow without an ounce of urgency are unacceptable and serve to reinforce the obvious conclusion that Fowler & NC State seem to never be able to understand the consequences of each of their actions.”

    So even in hiring Harper, he did it late and hurt her recruiting.

    That article is a weak attempt at refuting the assertion that many of the people on this website just slam Fowler at every turn. Even in what is arguably this website’s BEST tribute to Fowler, they b!tch-slapped him around a few times. 😉

    And I don’t have a problem with that. Fowler is one of the BIGGEST problems with NC State athletics. Not necessarily THE biggest problem, but one of them.

  25. blpack 11/11/2009 at 4:54 PM #

    We really shot ourselves in the foot when the admin decided to de-emphasize men’s hoops when Turner was hired. Our rivals have been more than happy to excel in our absence. Maybe things will turn around soon. One thing for sure the overall athletics program is struggling and has been in recent years under Fowler.

1 2

Leave a Reply