The “We Lost To Duke” Post Game Entry

'09 Football NC State Tom O'Brien170

Rock Bottom.

It might be time to let Ari Gold buy out the NC State Athletic Department.

You're fired.

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'09 Football NC State Tom O'Brien

170 Responses to The “We Lost To Duke” Post Game Entry

  1. wolfwarrior 10/11/2009 at 10:52 AM #

    We have now reached a “tipping point”.

  2. Thinkpack17 10/11/2009 at 10:54 AM #

    At least Men’s Soccer beat Duke.

  3. wolfpack95 10/11/2009 at 11:03 AM #

    There are internal problems partially at work here.

    Archer, however, has got to go.

  4. tobaccordshow 10/11/2009 at 11:04 AM #

    Still no word if heads have rolled… Sums up my fandom: infinite waiting…

  5. tvbman 10/11/2009 at 11:11 AM #

    Embarrassing loss.

    When will the coaches realize that we neither have the talent or the smarts to play a cover-2 defense? These past two weeks have been clinics on how to beat a cover-2. The sad thing is that on most plays, multiple receivers were open. Not just the primary or secondary, but at times there were 3 receivers open. What QB could not thrive in that poor attempt at a pass defense. I would rather take my chances at bump and run man defense with inexperienced CBs that attempt the “bend, but don’t break” defense that defines cover-2 zone. Burn me over the top, but don’t make me watch while QBs have career days dinking and dunking this poor excuse for a defense all day long. It is frustrating to watch and I am sure it is frustrating for the players to execute. That is just defense, too.

    On offense, we should have abandoned the long ball and went to the same game plan as Duke with the short underneath passes. They were there, but all our receivers were running routes to the outsides, not the middle.

    I predict we will not win another game unless the defense changes. About what I expected from the Herb Sendek of college football.

  6. HPWolf 10/11/2009 at 11:36 AM #

    Slow down people, lets not panic just yet. Yea, this performance was unacceptable and was damn hard to watch. The last 14 points by Duke was sheer stupidity by state players. I still believe in TOB but he may have to let Archer go. Lets not forget that we were one catch away from taking the lead at WF late in the fourth and we have now faced by far the two best Qbs we will face in the ACC this year. They simply exploited our biggest weakness and we did not adjust. I put that directly on Archer and frankly some lazy dumb play. We knew coming in that Duke was better this year by the performance against VT. TOB has a lot of work to do and he better find a way to play pass defense. It seems the loss of Irving and the injuries in the secondary are much bigger than expected. Again, lets not jump off the TOB bandwagon just yet.

  7. ncsufan13 10/11/2009 at 11:42 AM #

    “Again, lets not jump off the TOB bandwagon just yet.”

    If someone would have told me Duke was going to put up 50 points on us at home before the season started, I would have responded it’ll be a cold day in hell before that happens. This is the same team that lost Richmond.

    Seeing as the team has basically imploded over the past three weeks while TOB stands on the sidelines with the deer staring into headlights look I think its more than reasonable to not only jump off of the band wagon but to return with the torches and pitchforks demanding accountability.

  8. HPWolf 10/11/2009 at 11:59 AM #

    ncsufan13, if we win our next two games what will you say? If we beat UNC again this year what will you say? Of course there has to be accountability and if we throw in the towel for the rest of the year I may want TOB’s head as well. State football laid an egg yesterday and it was more than embarrassing but I have to give TOB the season to turn this around. SC, WF and Pitt are all having good years and we have showed we can play with anyone(except 4th or 5th year qbs that are record setters). I’m hoping like heck that this one game was a fluke. Who Knows? I do believe that Archer is a liability and cannot adjust on the fly to gane changing conditions. He should have brought multiple blitz packages from all directions for the entire game. I have to believe that if we knock Thad down and beat him up some his completion percentage is not at 80%.

  9. Wulfpack 10/11/2009 at 12:15 PM #

    “if we win our next two games what will you say? If we beat UNC again this year what will you say?”

    I would say that we blew a very good opportunity to take control of the division with our subpar performances against Wake and Duke. I will say that even though we won these two games, we have zero hope of playing with the big boys because South Carolina made us look silly with their speed and athleticism. I will say that IF we find some way of making it to Jacksonville or wherever the ACC Championship game is played, we’re going to get our asses kicked so bad it isn’t even funny. Virginia Tech or Miami have so many better athletes than us it isn’t even funny.

    So I would be happy to win, but it’s kind of like winning a couple of games against the JV when you know the varsity is waiting in the wings. We’re not even close.

    And as far as UNC goes, I’m sick and tired of that being our benchmark for success. Of course I want to beat their ass every year. But when you are getting pummeled by Duke, it kind of takes some of the fun out if it. As bad as they’ve been, they’re not losing to Duke.

  10. b 10/11/2009 at 12:26 PM #

    To me, it was a confluence. Some bad luck, bad schemes, and a Duke team that knew this was the one team it could upset. Throw in a poor effort and, presto!

    I won’t profess to know more than a college football coach, but I know a fair amount about the game and I know what I saw.

    Duke’s offensive game plan was to get the ball out quick to avoid the rush. The only reason they tried to run was to give their QB a rest or run clock. When they needed to max protect for long patterns they did so effectively. I would have pressed the corners and tried to blitz from different positions to force a change. It may not have worked well, but if you can’t stop ’em at least force ’em to beat you a different way. Since our corners can’t tackle hopefully they can at least change timing on patterns.

    Offensively, when the Pack lined up in the I, they ran effectively. Why they didn’t do it more I’ll never know. I understand we are a passing team, but you should take what you are given and force the defense to adapt. The offensive gameplan seemed arrogant, and it didn’t change after halftime.

    The two punt fumbles were bad luck combined with poor reaction, but I have a personnel question. What is a deep threat WR (Spencer) doing on the punt return team anyway?

    I’m not into firing coaches at midseason, its foolish and won’t solve any problems. Unless Cowher wants to come be the DC or TOB thinks he has someone on staff to improve on the ….”job”…. Archer is doing we are stuck with him. He just needs to scheme to his personnel, as limited as it may be, rather than force a system they aren’t skilled enough to play in.

    And comparing what Amato did with what TOB has done leaves out one key piece of information. Amato was left with decent talent, TOB, not so much. I’m as hurt by this loss as you all are, but I still preach patience.

  11. skitchwolf 10/11/2009 at 12:31 PM #

    I do not presume to know one-tenth as much about defensive schemes as many of the posters on this board, much less TOB and Archer. However, the last two games have confirmed what I have suspected for sometime: Archer is NOT a top-notch DC. Now, will/should TOB dump him mid-season? Well, it seems highly unlikely that TOB would do such a thing given his demonstrated demeanor and obvious loyalty to staff, players, etc. He has built his successful career on staff stability and loyalty. Unless we see marked improvement in the defense as the year progresses, I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Mr. Archer depart at the end of the season. However, TOB seems highly unlikely to dump Archer in midseason to replace him with whom?? I must admit I wouldn’t mind seeing Archer’s head roll just to make a point, but TOB is not one to panic under fire and he will very likely finish the year with the staff he has. If he lets Archer go at the end of the year, he might have any number of top-notch DCs to choose from . . . if he changes now – who????

  12. HPWolf 10/11/2009 at 12:38 PM #

    Wulfpack, you’re right, we are not close yet to where we want to be. If you take the Duke game out though our losses over the last 7 games have been close and we have beaten the Miami team you speak of 2 years straight. Carolina was on a roll last year when we took them apart so I counted that as a win against a good team not just a rival. I cant’t tell you how freakin mad I was watching yesterdays game but we need to circle the wagons and fight like hell. We’ve dropped the ball for two weeks in a row and fundamental football is lacking on the NCSU sideline. TOB has a chance to build a solid program at state. He is recruiting well and we knew all along the secondary was our weak spot. All I’m saying is give it some time and let it play out. If we nosedive the rest of the way(season) I’ll carry the pitchfork.

  13. wbnation 10/11/2009 at 1:15 PM #

    I like how the media also keeps talking about how TOB’s state teams are slow starters and that they can still turn it around. Unfortunately the last two years its been the offense and more importantly the offensive line that needed to get better. This year its the defense, but unlike offense, defense is a much harder thing to turn around. I don’t know so much of it is that our guys don’t know what they are doing, its the fact that they don’t have the athletic ability to execute it. To play zone about 95% of the time tells me we don’t have the horses to keep up, and we are just hoping to keep everything in front of us. Now for that to work evey man had at least be able to 1) cover an area of around 10 yds with speed, and 2) be damn sure you can tackle in space. We royally suck at both. The linebackers and safeties are demonstrously(sp) slow, linebackers can’t tackle and neither can any of our corners. Its bad folks and it ain’t getting better this year. I just don’t see us finishing strong when there is just too much on our defensive personnel wise that we are lacking.

  14. tobaccordshow 10/11/2009 at 2:26 PM #

    “We knew what they were going to do, every down, every third-and-short, every scenario,” said Austin Kelly, who caught the go-ahead touchdown pass late in the third quarter.

    UNBELIEVABLE AND COMPLETELY TRUE.

    LET THIS MARINATE. RE READ WHAT KELLY JUST SAID. THEN READ IT AGAIN. ONCE IT HITS YOU, READ IT ONE MORE TIME.

    http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_football/story/6177558/

  15. elvislives 10/11/2009 at 2:53 PM #

    NC State major sports teams are like the Chicago Cubs of College Sports. Except that the Cubs are lovable losers and their games are fun to go to regardless of the final score. State even has the “Wait ’til Next Year” thing down.

    Anyone else think it will be over 100 years before NCSU raises another National Championship banner in basketball or football? It’s been 26 years since 1983 and I’ll wager it will not happen again in my lifetime (+/- 50 years). THAT is the reality of being an NC State fan.

  16. wbnation 10/11/2009 at 3:13 PM #

    “We need to take more responsibility as a team,” Wolfpack coach Tom O’Brien said. “We were outcoached and outplayed.”

    also I keep hearing this week after week. so basically what TOB is telling us is that for the past two weeks there was a better coach on the other sideline. Well thats great he was out coached by two small private school coaches. Wake and DUKE!!! Not Florida State, Miami or VT, noooo…DUKE!!!! Thats just unacceptable. Its why we got him, if you don’t have the horses, you OUT COACH!!! If you don’t have either you might as well make me the head coach…I can get out recruited and out coached and I will do for $600,000 less.

  17. john of sparta 10/11/2009 at 5:42 PM #

    +1 thinkpack17…thanks for answering my question:
    will we beat Duke in ANY-damn-thing this academic year?
    also, Elvis: well, there’s always the Bass Fishing Team.
    and yes, the Cubs games are absolutely GREAT, win or lose.
    i’ve never had a bad time in Chicago: cubs/sox/bears/bulls/etc.

  18. blpack 10/11/2009 at 7:05 PM #

    Embarrassing loss, no way around it. Still time to turn things around, but there is much to fix. We don’t have to worry about any titles now, divisional, state or otherwise. Maybe now we will go out, relax and play. We’ll see. I wonder if this is the tipping point some have alluded to where the fans finally rise up and demand for accountability. It’s a bad time to be Lee, imho.

  19. legacyman 10/11/2009 at 8:04 PM #

    Let’s see. State stunk up the field against the worst ACC program(maybe next to worst after last Sat.) The D had no clue, the offense kept close or even until the second half when we got a fumble on D and promptly peed away the chance to take control of the game. We squandered the next chance we got the ball so dook took the ball and promptly kicked our butts all over the field.

    Our head coach silently manned the sidelines watching the O and D self-destruct.

    So some posters go after Lee Fowler and Mike Archer. What the crap is wrong with you. TOB is the CEO and gets the blame…he allowed it to happen and made no changes that amounted to anything.

    Folks, I believe TOB has already gone into retirement mode…his mind is in Charleston at his other home.

  20. wolfonthehill 10/11/2009 at 9:58 PM #

    What’s up with the “still time to turn it around” talk? No, there’s not. Three losses at this point in the season means we will NOT achieve what any of us would have defined as a successful season in 2009.

    It’s a loss. 10 more months til we get to try again.

  21. ryebread 10/11/2009 at 10:26 PM #

    I can’t say whether TOB is mentally checked out. I tend to doubt it, but I could be wrong. I think he’s got more pride than that.

    I don’t think we’ll see any staff changes in the middle of the year. That’s not TOB’s MO. My guess is that he’s going to give Archer the chance to turn it around this season.

    Regardless, Fowler and Archer do need to go. If Archer’s replacement isn’t any better then maybe TOB should go too.

  22. Broccoman 10/11/2009 at 11:13 PM #

    Yeah, TOB should get the blame, and the hot seat. Writing TOB off at this point- is too early. If Archer is still around in January, and improvements aren’t massive and immediate the rest of the way- then you talk about a new head football coach.

    Fowler- we already know about him. Nothing more can be said there.

    BTW three losses, if State goes 4-2 rest of the way, they make a bowl, and one game better then before. That was the minimal goal, and it’s still reachable, though I’ve seen no evidence of that. When loss 6 happens, then the season is a failure.

  23. mafpack 10/11/2009 at 11:57 PM #

    I just wanted to point out that the two ‘bonehead’ plays by the Punt Team Corners (not used to hearing them called ‘gunners’ but it doesn’t much matter) fall squarely on the shoulders of the Return Man, in both cases, TJ Graham. I know most of you will want to remember his kick off return and want to argue, but in BOTH cases, he allowed the punt to drop to the turf inside the RedZone in hopes (I guess…) that it would bounce into the endzone for a touchback, both times WITHOUT properly calling off the gunners.

    It’s the corners job to block all the way down field, especially within 10 yards of the Return Man if you have any hopes of a decent return. It looked like (from DVR) that Byers had about a 1 second warning verbally from TJ and tried to run away to the sidelines and got incredibly unlucky with a bad bounce right at him.

    Spencer on the other hand got royally screwed over by TJ who let the ball drop freely THREE FEET from him and just a few feet away from the blocking Spencer – that’s the Return Man’s fault plain and simple. You call for a fair catch and catch the damn ball or you CALL EVERYONE OFF EARLY and run forward away from the landing area so your teammates can see you – that’s just another example of stupidity, not once, but twice, by the same player on Saturday.

    Also, as someone pointed out, THIS Duke team really is better than we’ve seen in years, but it doesn’t make the loss any easier to take. Damnit.

    PS – A lot of you really don’t have a damn clue about football and should really stop posting long winded Monday Morning Quarterback posts, ‘let Russel air it out more and do his thing, forget the pocket’ – my ass. The only effective thing we did consistently on offense on Saturday was to run the ball – the fact that we kept forcing RW to carry the weight of the team down after down, when he obviously was off his rhythm, was the ultimate cause of the incredibly poor offensive production in the 2nd half. As well as T. Baker was running the ball, why we continued to go 3 and out through the air is beyond me. Damnit again.

  24. tjfoose2 10/12/2009 at 12:04 AM #

    tobaccordshow

    “We knew what they were going to do, every down, every third-and-short, every scenario,” said Austin Kelly, who caught the go-ahead touchdown pass late in the third quarter.

    UNBELIEVABLE AND COMPLETELY TRUE.

    LET THIS MARINATE. RE READ WHAT KELLY JUST SAID. THEN READ IT AGAIN. ONCE IT HITS YOU, READ IT ONE MORE TIME.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    Note: This is my first post since after the Duke game. I was too disgusted to come here before now. I’m still disgusted, but am hoping this site provides some type of therapy.

    Exactly right tobaccordshow.

    After checking out the DVR, I realized we actually did blitz more that I had thought while I was trudging back to my jeep. Problem was, we telegraphed everything. When we were blitzing, from where, who was coming… we showed it.

    Sometimes we threw in a twist stunt, but that was about as ‘complex’ as we got, save one delay blitz from the edge by Maddox which resulted in a sack, and the one safety blitz when Clem Johson sacked Lewis on what looked like a busted play near the goal line.

    Anyone see a pattern? Mix it up a little bit and maybe good things might happen.

    The personnel packages, the alignment… everything we did on defense was vanilla. We disguised nothing. Lewis and Duke’s O-Line never had to guess what we were doing, save maybe 3-5 plays the entire game. I was calling out our plays from the stands myself, to prove a point to some of my fellow fans.

    We ran two defensive packages the entire game. Our base 4-3-4 (4 D-Linemen, 3 LB’s, 4 DB’s) and a nickel package 4-2-5 w/ 5 DB’s. We mixed in some man coverages w/ the 4-2-5, but were so obvious about it, I read it from the stands every time.

    I wonder if it ever occurred to our staff that maybe we might want to try to disguise some coverages? Maybe not telegraph every blitz? Maybe not make things so simple for the opponent’s QB and OLine?

    When it became obvious that Duke’s game plan did not include a running attack, and that they were using a quick 3 step drop to help negate blitz pressure, and we were stopping nothing, why did we not at least try a dime package (6th DB)? Maybe? Just try it.

    Put in 6 DB’s, play man/zone hybrid coverages, mix it up, confuse the QB a bit… then start sending in blitzes from any of the 6 DB’s positions and the LB spot? You know, make the OLine have to think too.

    I expected Lewis to be sharp, I expected Duke to get their points. What I did not expect was for us to lie down and ‘attack’ a David Cutcliffe offense w/ a high school jv defense.

    Duke’s offensive line was better than I expected, I give them credit for that, but we maximized their effectiveness with our simple vanilla attack.

    We couldn’t pressure the QB, we couldn’t cover, we couldn’t tackle. If that weren’t enough, we pretty much told Duke what we doing before the snap almost every play.

    Yet we continued to try the same things play after play after play. We ran our base defense, we tried some man (not often) out of the 4-2-5 set, and we blitz our LB’s. That’s it.

    We let the TE release clean on almost every play. We let their WR’s release clean almost every play.

    If I didn’t know better, I would think that somebody had bet the farm on a Duke victory and that we purposely schemed a defense to offer the least amount of resistance possible to Duke’s offense.

    It’s not the loss itself that disgusts me, it’s how we lost. Duke is a good team (it’s not the same team that lost to Richmond, just as the 2008 NC State team that ended the season was not the same team that lost its opener), and will win their share of games this year (I’d bet 6-6 or 7-5), but we made them look like a team loaded w/ All-Americans and legitimate 5-star recruits.

    Embarrassing, disgusting, pitiful, pathetic.

  25. tjfoose2 10/12/2009 at 12:23 AM #

    mafpack

    per Graham – Amen! He should have been screaming “Peter”, “Peter”, “Peter” the entire time. Fans around me were yelling at Spencer and Byers on those punts. I shared the same, that it was the return man’s responsibility to clear them out of the area.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Graham benched for a game or two. He routinely quits on patterns and almost always outruns his blockers on returns. To me, that points to a “me first” discipline problem.

    “PS – A lot of you really don’t have a damn clue about football and should really stop posting long winded Monday Morning Quarterback posts…”

    I had the same attitude too… and in some ways, still do. However, as it was pointed out to me after I made a similar comment, this is a place where people come to share their opinions and vent. Right or wrong, ignorant or informed, this is a place to share…

    Instead, look at it as an opportunity to educate and inform. Most, if not all, will appreciate the knowledge and insight you have to share.

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