Mays and Smith Say Some Players on Last Year’s State Team Were Selfish

One of the oldest cliches in sports is that there is no “I” in “team.”  Like most cliches, there is a solid kernel of truth in the center, albeit one that becomes so overused the people start looking past it. According to an article on WRALsportsfan.com’s website this morning, there was a lot of “I” on last year’s Wolfpack men’s hoops team, something that won’t be as much of a problem on this year’s squad:

This year, Julius Mays said, “We have no individual just about themselves. When I got here, we’ve had players that have been more about themselves. They’d rather score 30 points than N.C. State win the game.

“You can’t win like that. We’ve also had players that try to turn other players against Coach to get them on their page instead of Coach’s page. You can’t win like that.”

Tracy Smith, who will be a key player inside, agreed.

“Last year and the year before that, everybody wanted to come in and play their own way,” Smith said. “I don’t think we’ll have that problem. Everybody’s on the same page.”

Let’s hope so.  State is a team that will quite often be overmatched from a physical skills standpoint, and if there are five freelancers out on the court facing that sort of competition, they will get last year’s results all over.  If this year’s vintage of Wolfpack basketball plays in usison and according to plan, they may well be a pleasant surprise – a team that wins games it is not supposed to win, and exceeds everyone’s expectation by a comfortable margin.

This topic was also launched on our message boards last Friday and can be seen by clicking.

08-09 Basketball 09-10 Basketball

90 Responses to Mays and Smith Say Some Players on Last Year’s State Team Were Selfish

  1. wolfonthehill 10/19/2009 at 10:54 PM #
  2. PackerInRussia 10/20/2009 at 1:17 AM #

    “Shooooooo! (wiping brow) I’m sure glad (insert player name here from past several seasons who also accounted for majority of scoring) is gone. That should really give this team a chance to play better this year without him. Just like the Vikings without Randy Moss a number of years ago. That just makes me that much more optimistic about our chances this year.”

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Fool me three times, I must be an NC State fan.

  3. theghost 10/20/2009 at 1:21 AM #

    So, I’m new here, I found this not too long ago, and find it to be insightful (a rarity as blogs go), if a little on the negative side. I’ve been away from Raleigh for about 15 years, and don’t get to see much at all on the Pack (can’t get any ACC coverage that’s not some story about how wonderful hansbrough is – ugh). Thanks to Alpha and whoever else puts this together.

    Here’s my question – it seems the general consensus on here is that Lowe is a bad or even terrible coach, or at the very least, isn’t the “right guy.” Question is, why? I’ve read, in various posts, he can’t recruit, he can’t teach, he can’t coach X’s and O’s, even that he can’t substitute. Which is it, really? (note – this is actually an honest question, so let’s dispense with the “he sucks, he can’t do any of them”, etc. – really not helpful).

    Here’s why I ask – my take is that I’m not convinced he will win (defined as return to 80’s quality competitiveness – compete for ACC championships), but I’m not yet convinced he can’t either. It seems to me that THE major issue is the lack of a point guard. I don’t think anyone can expect to win in the ACC without a solid ball handler/game manager. So, the answer is, go get one – agreed – I think he should’ve gotten one by now, but I don’t know that you can blame him entirely for all the injuries, academic failures, or Wall going to KY – it’s not like he’s been ignoring the problem, or that he’s satisfied with where the program is (see Amato’s “ask me at the end of the season how good Akron is”).

    Or, put another way, was anybody really dissatisfied with the ’07 team’s performance while Atsur was healthy (4-7 ACC, 13-7 overall, 2-1 vs unc/Duke)? Remember – ’06 season, picked to finish last, 20-win season and decent NIT run despite 13 miserable games with Atsur hurt. By no means sure, but isn’t it possible that we’re a point guard away from turning the corner? And if that’s possible – even 1 in 4 chance possible – after 20 years, isn’t it worth 2 years, over another bare cupboard, another Fowler coaching search, and another 6 or 8 years – at a minimum – losing to those $*%@’s from orange county? Where am I wrong?

  4. Gene 10/20/2009 at 1:45 AM #

    To run up tempo you need a solid point guard. We’ve not had a competent point guard since Atsur left and an All-ACC PG since Corchiani.

    I hope Javi will at least be competent now, since his dramatic improvement last year.

    The only surprising comment from Mays / Smith was that players were undermining what the coach wanted to do. Coaches should have the respect of the players and not have what the are trying to coach undermined. Very disturbing to note Lowe lost the team like that.

  5. Wulfpack 10/20/2009 at 7:17 AM #

    Lowe has not won as a head coach of any program. He has won of the worst NBA win/loss percentages of all time. The Wolfpack has not sniffed the ACC’s or a middle of the road ACC finish in his 3 years. In fact, in 2 of them the Pack hasn’t sniffed any of the worthless postseason tournaments. Results often do not lie.

    Why you ask? Failing to deliver on a PG. Offering schollies to non ACC calibre players. No implementation of a system. No accountability. Personal distractions. His players can’t get along. His players aren’t motivated. His players don’t know what is being asked of them (see Julius Mays’ comment last season).

    Yea, he’s one of ours. But if he fails for a 4th time, it will be his last time. Enough with the excuses. Put up or shut up.

  6. Wolf74 10/20/2009 at 7:45 AM #

    In the ACC, NCSU needs a great coach not just a good one. To me, a great coach has to be able to proficiently handle four parts of the coaching equation: 1) Recruiting, 2) Game Preparation, 3) Game Coaching, and 4) Handling the administration and players. Lowe has this season and probably next to show he can be a great coach.

    It is time for him to step up. He has been an assistant coach in several hundred games under good head coaches. He has been the head coach in several hundred games. He has 3 full seasons of head coaching at the D1 college level. He has 3 recruiting seasons under his belt. He has three experienced point guards (Degand, Javi, Mayes). All the players on the team are his, as they have never been coached by anyone else. If he doesn’t step up now, when is he ever? It is time.

    He has taken the first step by showing signs of being able to recruit. To take that all important 2nd step he needs to win 20+ games this year. Honestly that shouldn’t be very hard. Sloan and V used to win 18 games in their “bad seasons” and that was when they were only guaranteed 27-29 games. This season we play 32 games (31 regular season and at least 1 ACC tourney). Ten OOC games should not be a problem to win. That means he only has to win 10 of 22 to get to the 20 win mark. Only about 5 of those games are against teams that we really cann’t match up reasonably well with. That means he needs 10 of 17 (59%) against peer teams. Not much to ask of a great coach. However, let’s say he only wins 8 (47%), that still should get us in the NIT with a 18-14 record with at least 1 home game. Two wins in the NIT and you again have 20 wins. Again, I say not much to ask.

    Again, It’s time for him to step up.

  7. Oldwolf 10/20/2009 at 7:52 AM #

    I don’t know if we will be able to run more this year or not. I am not sure if it is the lack of a pg or not. But some numbers from last year seem to indicate that turnovers by some of the departed may have been a part of the problem. This could be attributed to the lack of a good pg to get them the ball:

    total turnovers (per game):

    The team leader in turnovers was Costner with 84 (2.8 per game

    The primary ball handlers:
    Javi had 63 (2.9)
    Mays had 36 (1.6)
    DeGand had 58 (2.2)

    The departed:
    Costner had 84 (2.8)
    Fells had 46 (1.7)
    McCauley had 50 (1.7)

    The returners:
    Smith had 33 (1.1)
    Horner had 18 (0.6)
    Williams had 14 (0.6)

  8. Tiew 10/20/2009 at 8:30 AM #

    One thing I dislike about some sports fans is how losing has to be explained by a moral failure. The reality is you can be a good person, and try hard, and be a good team player, and still get your butt kicked. This isn’t a movie.

    I didn’t like it last year when fans blamed failure on the seniors being bad people rather than accepting the more obvious explanation that we weren’t a talented enough team. I dislike it even more coming from the players this year. It’s like Sid is selling them some fantasy explanation of why they got beat.

    I think this kind of talk becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you teach kids to think this way then when failure comes, rather than handling it in a mature way, they’ll be more likely blame their teammates.

  9. Rick 10/20/2009 at 10:16 AM #

    “Fowler has no accountability metrics. Except for Fuh-Silly-Tees, of course. Why should he expect any from his charges?”

    I would argue his main metric is keeping players out of trouble. And his secondary metric is keeping the program in the black. Anything else is gravy.

  10. Rick 10/20/2009 at 10:17 AM #

    “I didn’t like it last year when fans blamed failure on the seniors being bad people rather than accepting the more obvious explanation that we weren’t a talented enough team.”

    The big three were highly recruited and ranked players. Similarly ranked as the players being touted as the program saviors next year.

  11. Tiew 10/20/2009 at 10:49 AM #

    “The big three were highly recruited and ranked players. Similarly ranked as the players being touted as the program saviors next year.”

    I’m not saying they weren’t talented, just that we didn’t have enough talent at all positions. Or if we did, that the talent we had was not well used.

    What I’m arguing against is people blaming an imagined character failing in the big three rather than just accepting we weren’t a good enough team.

  12. Rick 10/20/2009 at 10:55 AM #

    We were not a god enough team. On that I agree.

  13. WolftownVA81 10/20/2009 at 1:06 PM #

    ^^ Quit = charactor flaw in my book. I saw enough quit last year to last a life time.

  14. Statereverend 10/20/2009 at 1:34 PM #

    Wulfpack you’re being intellectually dishonest and overdramatic as well. Don’t feel bad, there’s quite a few people on here doing that at the moment, you just seem to have the most obvious post.

    Yes, Lowe got his butt kicked in the NBA, but what teams did he coach? He coached a couple of the worst franchises in history and had NOBODY on his teams to speak of. He was left/started with absolutely nothing. Can ya name 3 players on his teams off the top of your head? Probably not, not very many people could. He didn’t have ANYTHING to work with and GM’s who were so retarded they couldn’t talk their own mom into coming to play for their team. Sound familiar? It should, he was left with very little here, only 5 or 6 scholarship players and not enough players to actually execute an effective practice. We haven’t sniffed any success because he was a lifelong NBA coach having to develop connections so that he could land recruits. Something that he has done extremely well, as evidenced by this class and the next.

    Also, you CANNOT force any player to commit to your school and there are very few QUALITY ACC point guards out there. If none of them that year want to go to your school, guess what?, you’re out of luck. He brought in Javi as a last minute thing to try fill a gap. He had to do that with multiple kids. As I said before we couldn’t even field an entire squad to compete in practice. He didn’t have any choice except to offer kids who weren’t ACC caliber. But, he’s landed THE BEST POINT GUARD this school, and perhaps the ACC, has ever seen in Ryan Harrow. Yes I know that’s a lot of accolades for someone who’s never played a collegiate game, but this kid has serious skills and can do things with the ball that other PG’s couldn’t even dream of doing. So he HAS brought in the PG, it just so happens he’s a year younger than what you and everybody else wants him to be.

    He had ONE personal distraction, maybe two. Stop blowing things out of proportion. And I don’t give a fat babies behind how good of a coach you are, if one of my teammates slept with my GF, we gonna have problems.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you’re expecting a dramatic increase in W’s this year, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. You’ll have to WTNY for that. You will, however, see our players hustle, give 100% every play, and play defense. You will see kids who WANT to play here and WANT to play for this coach and were recruited for a specific system. They’re still freshmen, so they’ll still make freshmen mistakes which is why we’ll still lose games. But once Harrow comes in, you’ll see the W’s start piling up.

  15. bradleyb123 10/20/2009 at 1:55 PM #

    ^^^ “Look back to UNC during Doh’s time. He inherited one of the worst group of players UNC assembled. He then brought in an amazing recruiting class and was unable to win with them (though year 3 might have been a little hasty). UNC saw in year 3 that Doherty wasn’t going to win even with the better players, so they got rid of him. That’s where we’ll be with Lowe NEXT year. And YES, UNC can get to that point in 3 years where it takes us 5.”

    I know this is a day-old post, but my understanding about Doherty is that they got rid of him because the players threatened to leave the program. It wasn’t so much that Doh couldn’t win with them. But he had LOST his players. Even if he was the best coach in the world, his own players couldn’t stand him. They had to get rid of Doherty, even if it was because the inmates were running the asylum.

    There is a stark difference between the Doherty situation and Sid’s. Sid’s kids LOVE him. He’s the reason many of them came (and are coming) here.

    I think I’m one of the few people on here that is glad Sid is getting this year (and probably next year, too) to coach these kids. I’m not making any rash predictions. I’m just going to sit back and watch what happens with these players before I pass any more judgment on Sid.

  16. Wulfpack 10/20/2009 at 3:41 PM #

    Statereverend, I don’t think I mistated a single fact. His record, to this point, speaks for itself.

  17. bradleyb123 10/20/2009 at 6:41 PM #

    In Sid’s defense, he DID coach an expansion team in the NBA.

    That’s not to say he’s a great coach. I’m just saying his dismal NBA record doesn’t necessarily mean anything either way.

  18. PackerInRussia 10/21/2009 at 7:22 AM #

    “I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you’re expecting a dramatic increase in W’s this year, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. You’ll have to WTNY for that. You will, however, see our players hustle, give 100% every play, and play defense. You will see kids who WANT to play here and WANT to play for this coach and were recruited for a specific system. They’re still freshmen, so they’ll still make freshmen mistakes which is why we’ll still lose games.”

    I actually think I could live with that.
    Ditto on bradleyb’s post. Sid’s NBA record tells us nothing. If he had actually won and done good, it would mean he was phenomenal. However, since almost no coach would have had a much better record in those situations, we don’t learn a lot by the record.

  19. frankiepack 10/21/2009 at 7:56 AM #

    Every year there is always some lame ass excuse as to why we sucked the previous year here.
    Unless Sid is held accountable next year it was Horners fault.

  20. packplantpath 10/21/2009 at 8:07 AM #

    “I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if you’re expecting a dramatic increase in W’s this year, you’re going to be sorely disappointed. You’ll have to WTNY for that. You will, however, see our players hustle, give 100% every play, and play defense. You will see kids who WANT to play here and WANT to play for this coach and were recruited for a specific system. They’re still freshmen, so they’ll still make freshmen mistakes which is why we’ll still lose games.”

    Actually, given the state of ACC basketball teams without any shade of blue in their uniform, I would expect that doing those things would count for a dramatic increase in the wins category. Not top 3 in the ACC, that would be miraculous given the performance last year. But, making it to the middle of this ACC season should be relatively easy for a talented team that gives every play full effort. Going from a bottom feeder to mid-way the conference is dramatic in my book.

    I just doubt any of it happens.

  21. Wulfpack 10/21/2009 at 1:44 PM #

    It just seems with some folks there is ALWAYS as an excuse for why Sid hasn’t won here. It’s either this, or that, or something else. All the while turning a blind eye to the FACT that are so many more coaches out there doing far more with less. Less talent, less resources, less coaching experience, what have you.

    I for one am sick and tired of the excuses. If you can’t win here in 4 years, hit the road.

  22. statered 10/21/2009 at 2:01 PM #

    ^Be prepeared to hold the same position next year for Tom.

  23. bradleyb123 10/21/2009 at 2:20 PM #

    ^^^ “It just seems with some folks there is ALWAYS as an excuse for why Sid hasn’t won here. It’s either this, or that, or something else. All the while turning a blind eye to the FACT that are so many more coaches out there doing far more with less. Less talent, less resources, less coaching experience, what have you.”

    I’m not making excuses. Sid has a bad record since he arrived. I get that. I don’t like it, either. All I can say is the man has arrived when it comes to recruiting and deserves a chance, the last three seasons be damned. This is a new class, and you don’t give him just ONE year with so many new players on the team. You’re just setting him up to fail. May as well fire him now and give Towe the job. With the splash he’s making with top recruits, and the potential for a near fab-five phenomenon next year, it’s just ridiculous to just look backwards and let him go.

    ^^^ “I for one am sick and tired of the excuses. If you can’t win here in 4 years, hit the road.”

    All I can say is I’m glad the people in charge have better vision than you. He didn’t win in three years, and now he has almost a completely new team of players. Of course he’s not likely to win this year. If he had been bringing in a lot of his own players over the last three years, I’d tend to agree. But he had Herb’s players taking up spots that prevented him from bringing in more players before now.

    We have to give him a chance. This year and next. I really think we’re going to love Sidney Lowe before it’s over. Except for a couple of bitter holdouts that are never going to love the man, no matter what he does.

  24. bradleyb123 10/21/2009 at 2:23 PM #

    I hope these blogs remain archived and available in the future. I really think a lot of you will have plenty of words to eat when it comes to Sidney Lowe.

    And if he doesn’t get it done by the end of the 2010-11 season, well at least the next guy will be coming into a good situation. We’ll be stocked. That’s enough reason to keep Sid for this and next year at a minimum. His recruiting will make us less of a rebuilding job, and more appealing to potential replacements.

    Lose Sid now or before 2010-11, and we risk losing transfers, and the incoming recruits. Why risk blowing everything when we’re this close to making the turn we’ve been waiting for?

  25. packplantpath 10/21/2009 at 3:10 PM #

    Lets break this down sentence by sentence.

    I’m not making excuses. (Not yet, but this IS the opening sentence)

    Sid has a bad record since he arrived. (Yep)

    I get that. (Starting to wonder)

    I don’t like it, either. (See above)

    All I can say is the man has arrived when it comes to recruiting and deserves a chance, the last three seasons be damned. (Excuse number one)

    This is a new class, and you don’t give him just ONE year with so many new players on the team. (There will ALWAYS be a new class; If this class is so good, we should see dramatic results, after all, we were bottom feeders the last 2 years; Excuse two)

    You’re just setting him up to fail. (Excuse 3 set up)

    May as well fire him now and give Towe the job. (Based on our administration, sounds like a likely outcome)

    With the splash he’s making with top recruits, and the potential for a near fab-five phenomenon next year, it’s just ridiculous to just look backwards and let him go. (Excuse 3. There will always be next years “best ever” recruiting class. This is the well known, “backup quarterback” response. They are all great, until we see them play)
    ——————————–
    I would love to eat crow. I hope I’m wrong. But, other than recruiting, what has Lowe done for us? I’ve seen a grand total of 2 days worth of basketball his teams have played that has looked 1)fun, 2)good, and 3) competitive. And that was in the ACC tourney his first season, and I often wonder if some Turkish point guard may have been doing the real coaching (much like one Alabama quarterback may have been our FB coach for a few years). Where does this hope come from? Have I missed some brilliant coaching? Is he your father?

    I truly doubt the next coach will be coming into a good thing in 2012 if Sid is gone. Why? Because I suspect most of his recruits will not stay long either.

    I want to know. What is your standard? What minimum have you set for acceptable this season? Should there be, in your opinion, a consequence for not meeting this standard? We all know this is hypothetical and will NEVER happen. But, lets go on record.

Leave a Reply