Lorenzo Brown posterizes two defenders

Basketball Recruiting105

NC State basketball commitment Lorenzo Brown re-confirmed his commitment to the Wolfpack last week and followed up the commitment by posting a triple double in a scrimmage against Hargrave. Brown scored 26 points on 11 of 16 shooting while grabbing12 rebounds and distributing 11 assists. You can see about a minute and a half of ‘Brown-centric’ video from the game by clicking here.

One of Brown’s moves was the lead story at this website and can be seen below. You can also click here for our Tag archive of past Lorenzo Brown stories.

Heck…while we are showing videos we might as well share this amazing highlight reel of Ryan Harrow’s:

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Basketball Recruiting

105 Responses to Lorenzo Brown posterizes two defenders

  1. Stateman 10/29/2009 at 2:07 PM #

    ^Harrow and Brown are coming here, will sign their LOI’s and will be eligible. We’ll see if that changes your tune, but I seriously doubt it.

    loller at a good nucleus of young developing talent. Really? Seriously? What have those young players done other than catch an asswhoopin almost every week? The facts are that those players ARE ALREADY HERE and we STILL have horrible results. They’re ALREADY PLAYING and we are still getting our asses handed to us on a weekly basis. But it’s not just them, (I think the recruiting is average for the ACC, perhaps a bit below average), the real problem is the COACHING. Pathetic offensive playcalling, pathetic defensive playcalling, calling timeouts at unbelievably inopportune times, an undisciplined team that gets penalties at the most inopportune times, inept clock managment and piss poor accountability. The offense runs a scheme which should be COMPLETELY unacceptable for this team. We run almost every single play out of a shotgun formation when we have a running back with a 5+ypc average and he only gets 15 carries a game. I could go on and on, but almost ALL of the problems this team has points towards the coaching staff, not the players.

    I would absolutely LOVE for you to show me where in the hell you get the justification for this: “Football, even if we have some defensive kinks to work out, will be fine in the long run. In fact, I will say we have to a certain degree traded short term “flash in the pan” results for a long-term plan that emphasizes consistent excellence.”

    What freaking football team are you looking at? How do you justify that statement? What EXACTLY has our football team or coaching staff shown you that makes you think that the “long run” will be fine?

    As I said before, success in college basketball is predicated on top notch recruiting. Without top notch recruiting you’re going to suck. Lowe has shown the ability to recruit and given time, if you recruit well enough, you WILL produce positive results. A “nice lineup” for 2010-2011 will produce success in the future.

  2. packplantpath 10/29/2009 at 2:43 PM #

    I think stateman may be a parody poster. Anybody who can argue with a straight face that Sid is a better coach than TOB clearly has no valid points of reference.

    The double standard is amazing. I do hold TOB to a standard, and it’s not looking good. But based on his track record I have reason to suspect he is able to turn things around. I’m hopeful, but wary.

    Sid should be held to a lesser standard (due to his track record) and he is not looking good either, even with the bar set so low. But, in the case of Lowe, we have no reasonable reason, based on what we have seen, to expect a change.

    What about that doesn’t make sense? You don’t like the fact that TOB gets the benefit of doubt, while Lowe doesn’t. I get that. I would extend that benefit to Lowe if he had any record at all of fielding respectable teams. He doesn’t. When we hired him, we took a chance on an unknown and we had low expectations but high hopes. Our low expectations turned out to be correct so far.

    Those of you trying to make Lowe doubters sound like we dislike him need to figure out that we don’t. I want him to succeed. I hope he does and I eat all the crow you can cook. Nothing would make me happier. Personally, I have nothing against the man and am proud of what he managed to do as a player so many years ago and that he was willing to step into a bad situation when he was hired. But, that is no reason to not hold him to a standard of success.

  3. theghost 10/29/2009 at 3:45 PM #

    Whether you dislike him or not, I can’t say. Not my point. 61Packer was able to raise several valid criticisms without being condescending or treating anybody like an idiot. That was one of the better written opinions I’ve seen on here.

    And it’s not just you that I’m calling out here, but if Coach Lowe came to your office and said you don’t understand your job or how to do it, I dare say you wouldn’t thank him for the constructive criticism and the standard of success he’s holding you to.

  4. Thinkpack17 10/29/2009 at 4:09 PM #

    “Anybody who can argue with a straight face that Sid is a better coach than TOB clearly has no valid points of reference.”

    I am a Lowe supporter and I would have agreed with you before this year.

  5. VaWolf82 10/29/2009 at 9:22 PM #

    But if Coach Lowe came to your office and said you don’t understand your job or how to do it, I dare say you wouldn’t thank him for the constructive criticism and the standard of success he’s holding you to.

    He’s welcome any time. I have plenty of evidence to demonstrate that I understand my job and that I do it well…as well as or better than anyone in my dept. If Sid could do the same, we wouldn’t be having these conversations.

  6. JeremyH 10/29/2009 at 9:46 PM #

    As a side note, I just posterized my cat Chauncey with a Nerf ball and hoop. You should see the look on his face. I’m back!!!

  7. cooldrip 10/29/2009 at 10:59 PM #

    When Lowe has players QUALIFIED and on campus, he’ll get accolades from me on recruiting. Until then, he’s brought in ONE high-level recruit. All three high-level recruits are from the same city and the same contact. Can Sid really recruit, or does he just have a good relationship with Shareef Abdur-Raheem?

    Here’s my justification: Wilson redshirts his true frosh year. Same for Glennon, Barnes, Mattes, Wallace, Byrd etc. Football is a little different, obviously. But let’s look at our OL roster. Look how many players from true frosh to redshirt sophomores are there. NINE by my count. This was a position seriously lacking depth and talent when TOB arrived. This is a position that takes several years to grow and develop to play effectively.

    Let’s look at the PG position in hoops. Three years, and we still don’t have a talented point guard on the roster. I’m not knocking Javi, Mays, etc. but noone is confusing them with Ty Lawson or Chris Paul. This was a position of need when Sid arrived and continues to be unfilled. In year FIVE we will finally have a top PG on campus, if he signs. A big part of recruiting is recognizing your needs and filling them. Lowe has not done that yet.

    Realize many of us consider TOB’s full body of head-coaching work when analyzing his performance, including his seasons at BC. Just as we consider Sid’s full body of work, including his stints in the pros. Their records speak for themselves, beyond the emotions of three bad games. You opened the football vs basketball argument. Still waiting for your reasoning on the subject, and the logic behind your statement. It’s easy to pick apart others’ posts, but much harder to offer justification for your own statements.

  8. Stateman 10/30/2009 at 9:08 AM #

    so let me get this right… your justification is, He’s got a bunch of redshirt freshmen and sophomores and he did well at BC? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Too bad those freshmen and sophomores are already playing for the team and they’re getting handled every week. Too bad the coaches play to our teams weaknesses rather than their strengths. Too bad the coaches seem completely and totally inept when it comes to play-calling. BTW, TOB didn’t get Wilson, he was already here. He was LEFT with Wilson. And he hasn’t done ANYTHING with him. That’s like Ryan Harrow coming in and Sid having a losing record with Harrow on the team. That’s pathetic and you people would want to crucify him if he did that. But for some reason TOB gets a pass. Why? Because he did well at BC? Well WTF has he done here? Not a damn thing but show ineptitude in almost every aspect of the game from recruiting to discipline to play calling to developing players.

    Lowe can’t FORCE a quality PG to commit here. This isn’t NCAA basketball 2010. You can’t just spend a bunch of points on one player and basically force a commit from him. Real life doesn’t work that way. He got what was available and what was willing to commit.

    You can’t read minds, so we don’t care to read your opinion on what someone else thinks. Stick to what is actually said.
    VaWolf82

  9. cooldrip 10/30/2009 at 11:18 AM #

    Again, you miss my point. And again, you’ve failed to provide the logic behind your claim that basketball>football right now.

    The point is TOB seems to be putting a system in place for future success. Are we struggling right now? Of course, but again I’m measuring his performance over 2.5 seasons based against Amato’s last several seasons. We have regressed a bit in the last 3 games, but over 2.5 seasons we are well ahead of our position when TOB got here. We are developing depth in areas where there was none before. We are much more disciplined on and off the field than before. We have certainly taken some lumps this year, but let’s remember: the back seven was THE area of concern for alot of folks going into spring practice. Since that time, we’ve lost 3 starters out of 7 (Irving, Walker, Ellis) and have been forced to replace them with youngsters. Young players will struggle in making reads and positioning themselves correctly. Remember the 2003 D? Young, inexperienced, often got beat by older, more experienced offensive units. Remember what they turned into?

    I haven’t seen any of this from Sid. Three full seasons, and I would say our discipline is worsening over that interval, and worse than the previous regime. Chemistry problems, off-court turmoil, questionable staff appointments, etc. I don’t see a system being put in place. I don’t see a staff in control. I don’t see any leadership qualities qualities among our players, and haven’t seen a BB player with those qualities since Atsur. It compares poorly to the previous staff’s results, and we all know those results weren’t good enough.

    On the PG issue: I look around the country and most teams I watch have better guard play than we do. Teams from mid-tier conferences, teams most people have never heard of. They all seem to be able to find guards who can bring the ball up against pressure and run the offense. There seems to be PGs available, we just haven’t brought one in. Seems like a talent-recognition problem to me. That doesn’t equal good recruiting. Recruiting is more than just stars and rankings, it’s much more about filling needs. Ask Chuck Amato about that one.

  10. McPete 10/30/2009 at 11:24 AM #

    When I was watching UNC-VT last night, I couldn’t help but wonder how many starters and contributors on UNC’s defense are Butch Davis’ recruits. That’s a fast, good defense that was put together fairly quickly under Davis. He has recruited very well on the defensive side of the ball. I keep hearing excuses for TOB about how it takes time to build and how little was left in the cupboard for him. I think it’s total BS, the result of below average recruiting and poor coaching. TOB said that looking at BC’s defense now only confirms that his scheme is good. But Archer didn’t bring Spaziani’s scheme to Raleigh, and they don’t have the players either.

  11. Thinkpack17 10/30/2009 at 12:15 PM #

    “We have regressed a bit in the last 3 games…”

    A bit is an understatement. We have collapsed. I’m talking full on, mark of the beast, end of days type of football armageddon.

    Duke lost to Richmond at home. We lost to Duke, at home, and gave up 49 points. NC Central only gave up 49 points.

  12. Stateman 10/30/2009 at 1:32 PM #

    Other than your opinion, you have pointed to nothing that would suggest we are getting better as a program in football. For instance, you say he’s produced better results than the previous administration. His records of 5-7 6-7 3-4 say that you’re just making it up. Why don’t you go look up Lowes’ W% at NCSU and then compare it to TOB’s at NCSU. Lowe’s W% is the higher of the two.

    And a talent-recognition problem? You don’t pay much attention to recruiting do you? Who was the first or one of the first that recognized the talent in all these players: John Wall, Ryan Kelly, Ryan Harrow, Scott Wood, CJ Leslie and multiple others? I’ll give you one guess.

  13. cooldrip 10/30/2009 at 1:46 PM #

    I do not see a collapse. I’m observing this against the context of what I’ve seen over the past couple seasons. I do see a weighing of priorities by the staff in terms of sticking with the implementation of a system and dealing with injuries to key personnel. This staff has proven over the past two seasons that their teams improve from beginning to end. I’m hoping that’s the case again. I also agree with BJD that our “window for success” in terms of challenging for the ACC crown, opens next year.

  14. cooldrip 10/30/2009 at 2:00 PM #

    You miss my point. None of those players mentioned has played a college game yet. There are players in the NCAAs right now who COULD have helped us and WOULD have come here. Their are certainly players at far less glamorous programs than NCSU who would walk into our starting lineup. That’s talent recognition, and we’ve just missed the last couple seasons.

    Comparing football records with BB records is a pointless exercise. Very different seasons.

  15. Stateman 10/30/2009 at 2:20 PM #

    Who would have come here? I know you’re not talking about Chris Warren… If so, you can’t be serious.

  16. Thinkpack17 10/30/2009 at 4:26 PM #

    ^I’m also eager to know who these kids are…the Curry Boys?

    “None of those players mentioned has played a college game yet.”

    I don’t care if they haven’t played a game yet…there is not debating that John Wall and CJ Leslie are talented, and Sid recognized their talent early = Sid recognizes talent.

    “I’m hoping that’s the case again.”

    Make sure you cross your fingers, and your toes too!

  17. cooldrip 10/31/2009 at 6:12 AM #

    Still waiting for you to back up the provocative statement about basketball being ahead of football. Preferably with logical, objective, quantifiable evidence.

    History suggests that you shouldn’t hold your breath while you are waiting.
    VaWolf82

  18. cooldrip 10/31/2009 at 6:18 AM #

    And one more thing: NEVER accuse me of making things up again. As the moderators have warned you, personal attacks are neither welcome nor tolerated here. The monkey boards are the place for such behavior.

  19. Thinkpack17 10/31/2009 at 11:58 AM #

    ^I’m still waiting to hear these kids we passed on.

  20. cooldrip 10/31/2009 at 1:17 PM #

    You’re missing the point Thinkpack. Look at just about any team in any also-ran conference. They probably have a guard that could play circles around ours. How many of THOSE kids would have jumped at the chance to play on Tobacco Road? Most of them, and that’s my point. No kid is going to the SunBelt, MAC, etc when the bright lights of the ACC beacons. We never looked at or offered a bunch of kids that would be valuable members of our squad today. This is what I mean about talent recognition. It’s not just finding the A-level talent, but also finding guys who can help your cause and getting them signed.

  21. State4life 10/31/2009 at 1:51 PM #

    Now as I was saying before, cooldrip, they deleted my post, I had like 3 or 4 paragraphs up here explaining my position and providing evidence for what I said. Since they deleted it, I’ll be nice and I won’t post the whole thing again, however, the basic jist of what i was saying is: Lowe has a better overall W% than TOB. Lowe has a better ACC W% than TOB. Lowe is successful out of time outs, whereas TOB usually has a broken play afterwards. Lowe will adjust after halftime whereas TOB keeps running the same BS. There was plenty more and I’m sure I’ll end up explaining that too.

    Now as to your last comment, that is your OPINION. There is NO EVIDENCE to suggest that any of those players would “jump at the chance to play on tobacco road”. That’s nothing more than your opinion and as you made very clear to me, opinions are irrelevant.

  22. packplantpath 10/31/2009 at 9:58 PM #

    Well stateman, or whatever your name is now. I’ve changed my mind. Now, I’m pretty sure we have 2 clueless coaches. TOB clearly is lost too.

  23. cooldrip 11/01/2009 at 5:05 AM #

    How many monikers do you have guy? Weird, I only need one. Anyways, since it’s all I have to respond to…

    Records. Football plays non-division opponents on a rotating basis. Basketball plays every conference foe at least once. Pretty hard to compare schedules and results.

    Lowe is better out of timeouts and halftime breaks? OK if you say so. I would disagree with you.

    Alot of people thought the problems were gone when Hickson and Grant left. Now alot of fans think it’s all good since Costner, Fells and McCauley are gone. I’m sorely afraid that it had little to do with the players and everything to do with the leaders that allowed the problems to occur.

    If your previous post was deleted, then it was inflammatory, personally insulted another board member, or violated some other rule. I’ve been on this board for years now, and I’ve never had a post deleted. Always maintain respect, we all pull for STATE.

  24. State4life 11/01/2009 at 7:14 PM #

    No, it’s not hard to compare schedules or results when you’re talking about a WIN PERCENTAGE. Also, in basketball we play more difficult opponents year in and year out than we do in football. TOB should have a better record, but he doesn’t. Especially on this site.

    It’s not an opinion that Lowe is better out of timeouts, it’s a fact. Go look up the % of successful plays out of a timeout for both coaches, Lowe’s FAR EXCEEDS TOB’s. That’s not arguable, it’s simply a fact.

    Hickson was not the problem. The lazy slouchers that didn’t want to work were the problem. On what grounds do you base the problems on the coach? The coaches didn’t have sex with somebody elses g/f. The coaches didn’t decide to not work out in the offseason and come in as a fatass and overweight. The coaches didn’t make the players play lazy, not dive for balls, not box out etc etc. Those problems are the players, not the coaches.

    I guess it’s pretty easy to never have a post deleted when you simply tow the party line.

  25. Thinkpack17 11/02/2009 at 11:33 AM #

    “You’re missing the point Thinkpack.”

    LOL…come on dude. How many times are you going to say that? We keep missing your “Points” because you don’t have any. You demand that this guy you are arguing with come up with specific cases and “quantifiable evidence” but you yourself get to back up your arguments with opinion and generalizations. I am not going to try to make the football is better than basketball argument because there are way too many moving parts. Plus we have very differing opinions on our football losses this year (me: Duke game=collapse, you: Duke game=a bit of a setback). I am just asking you to hold yourself to the same standard as you are demanding Stateman. You made a couple of provocative statements of your own. So don’t speak in generalities…be specific. Which kids did we pass on that would have made us better? These kids that went to smaller conferences that could play circles around our guys and compete in the ACC?

    Get my point?

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