Awful Pack Handed Awful Loss

'09 Football154

The ending was a perfect microcosm of the Keystone Kops effort by NC State. Wake was stopped dead to rights on 3rd and 6, but 2 (maybe 3) embarrassingly bad missed tackles later, and it’s first down Deacs. 30-24 is your final, and the game was not as close as the score would indicate.

Without question, this was the worst game (relative to personnel) of the Tom O’Brien era. The players and the coaching staff have alot to answer for after this one. Completely, absolutely, unequivocably inexcusable.

Someone else can cover the post-game quotes. I’m in no mood to hear a word of it.

Gallery: http://www.newsobserver.com/galleries/gallery/125955.html

First Look: http://www.newsobserver.com/galleries/gallery/125664.html

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

'09 Football

154 Responses to Awful Pack Handed Awful Loss

  1. Rick 10/05/2009 at 8:05 AM #

    “I have said it before and I will continue to say it. Tom O’Brien is the Herb Sendek of college football.”

    He has a lot of work to get us to even that level.

  2. VaWolf82 10/05/2009 at 8:22 AM #

    (after Amato, ie a roster in shambles)

    Herein lies the source of the discontent that comes bubbling up after every loss….many people have not accepted the fact that Amato left the roster in shambles. Apparently it doesn’t matter how many times it is proven, some people simply won’t accept that fact.

  3. kyjelly 10/05/2009 at 8:45 AM #

    Pathetic really,I am sick still,now what do we have to look forward to? Basketball??

  4. zahadum 10/05/2009 at 9:18 AM #

    As always, perception is an amazing thing. Here are some of my takes that differ from what a lot of you seem to think.

    First, let’s have enough class to admit that Skinner played a whale of a game. On the second play, Willie Young had a defensive end’s dream come true of a hit on him. But he shook it off and played through it even though we continued to hit and harass him all game.

    There is no way you can seriously blame the first interception on the receivers. That was simple the worst decision I’ve seen RW make in his time here. He was throwing against his momentum, across the field, into double coverage.

    While there was little run blocking, our O-line did a good job on pass protection. RW had tons of time to throw, there simply was no one getting open. Which brings me to:

    Wake clearly did a good job of watching film from the Pitt game and defensive game planning accordingly. All of those underneath crossing routes that killed Pitt; Wake took those away and basically dared us to beat them with the long ball. Our receivers were not up to the challenge.

    Personal pet peeve – I’m getting really tired of hearing about how sure-handed Bryant is, given how many balls he’s dropped already this year. He may have better hands than our other receivers but Jericho he’s not.

    While its true that our DB’s didn’t cover themselves in glory, I thought the truely bad performance on D was by our linebackers. They were MIA all game.

    Where we lost the game – the 2nd quarter, when we squandered too many golden chances. We should have been up 14 at the half.

    One thing I agree on with previous posters, we have the worst kick coverage I’ve ever seen. I seriously think we should consider kicking and even more so, punting out of bounds intentionally.

  5. rtpack24 10/05/2009 at 9:20 AM #

    What surprises me is how poorly the special teams play has been and Sat it was as bad or worse than ever. Maybe special teams coach needs to be relocated.

  6. choppack1 10/05/2009 at 9:31 AM #

    I don’t think the special teams coach needs to be relocated/fired – whatever. Up till this year, we’ve been pretty solid in that area.

    This year, especially in the last 2 games – our kickoff coverage has been horrid. The good news is that this can be improved upon.

    We’ll see. I live in Winston, and if you couldn’t tell, I was worried about the Wake game. Aside from FSU’s win @ BYU and Miami’s win Saturday vs. OU, Wake’s win over Stanford (who is 3-0 in the Pac 10) – was as impressive as any OOC game in the ACC.

    This was a tough match up for us. Skinner is the best QB we’ll face – and quite frankly, if RW plays well, they are the ONLY team I can see that can keep w/us in shut out. He’s the ACC’s alltime TD leader and completion % leader. The good news is that if you look at our schedule, we don’t face another QB that good the rest of the year.

    I still think our running defense is pretty good. Our DL is solid. Our linebackers, DB and defensive coaching staff need to improve against the pass – and if they can, we can still have a good season.

    We played a decent team who will likely go bowling this year at their place. We didn’t play particularly well, but we played w/ heart. We certainly aren’t where I want us to be or even hoped we’d be right now, but we can still have a solid season. Heck, if you look at our division, we can still win it. EVERY TEAM in our division has a conference loss…BC (1), Wake (1), Clemson (2), and FSU (2)..whoops – does UMd?? Well -that should tell you something.

  7. Rick 10/05/2009 at 10:14 AM #

    “many people have not accepted the fact that Amato left the roster in shambles. Apparently it doesn’t matter how many times it is proven, some people simply won’t accept that fact.”

    How does that effect special teams play? Special teams is desire and planning. We are consistently giving up good field position. How is an influx of talented o-linemen (I am now convinced our talent level is low here) going to change how bad we are at that?

  8. ldr of the pk 75 10/05/2009 at 10:15 AM #

    After 130 responses, not much left to be said. Perhaps alot of the angst is that the State atheletic program as a whole is in such shambles and the football team was supposed to be one area of vast improvement that we could hang our hopes on.

    At the age of 60, my view comes from having witnessed alot of Wolfpack sports. As a State grad, my father got me indoctrinated early, which led to my years at State later. 1 loss is not the end of this season, or any season. But we haven’t looked good in ours wins, and the losses leave you scratching your head wondering, will it ever get appreciably better?

    However I have seen coaches come in, inheriting much less talent than TOB or CTC did, put together recruiting classes with less lustre than our last 2 or 3, and turned our program around within 3 years to the point of being able to compete not only at the top of the conference but somewhat at the national level.

    Granted, young talent might take time to teach, but I see a glaring difference in todays athelete. There is seemingly a complete lack of discipline. Evidence the last number of years the insane amount of times a player missses a snap count, committs a crucial personal foul, etc, etc. Mix that with the lack of fundamentals already mentioned by everyone, and the result is mediocrity.

    Two plays from Saturday highlight my concerns. Just before halftime, with Wake driving, we make a nice stop behind the line of scrimmage. State player (can’t remember which one, though it doesn’t matter), in one of these “look at me” moments, incurs an unsportsmanlike penalty, 15 yds, 1st down, and continuation of a drive that produces a go ahead field goal. At my age and coming from my generation of sports, these “look at me moments” have no place in atheletics. Anyone going off like that deserves a nice place on the end of the bench for the rest of the game, and a long afternoon of windsprints on Monday. That and an earfull of, “if you do that again in a game, you’ll sit the rest off the year. I’m sick of these prima donas who think the game is all about them. I know there are some that say, that’s just the way the game is today, they need to be able to celebrate. Fine, losers today, and losers later in life.

    Second play is the play Wake used to close us down at the end. It isn’t just the Wake game, and it isn’t just us, but it seems todays players are all about arm tackling, trying to strip a ball, etc, rather than hit, wrap up, and bring a player down.

    It seems a good bit was made the first year of TOB sitting a player after a dumb penalty. I don’t know if the Marine is going lax or what, but these knuckleheads need a good kick in the ass and alot of work on discipline and fundamentals. I just don’t understand what takes 3 or more years to accomplish these things anymore. The Holtzes and Sheridans seemed to take much less time. Comparatively they weren’t making the kind of money our recent coaches do, and the money expended by the alumni wasn’t anywhere close. What has changed so over the years?

  9. choppack1 10/05/2009 at 10:39 AM #

    ldr of the pack – Just to put this in perspective. The Deacs had some chippy penalties too and Grobe is no slouch. One of those penalties kept our last TD drive alive.

    I think coaches walk the fine line between making the game fun, allowing kids to have fun and having a team that is totally out of control.

    Sheridan definitely took less time, but that was a different ACC then, as it was when Holtz took over. We should remember, last year we finished 4-4 in the conference, our best record since Philip’s senior year. We did so by winning our last 4 conference games.

    I’m not thrilled w/ TOBs results this year. However, like I said, the man has a record for you to review. If you were expecting a quick, drastic turnaround, or championships, you obviously haven’t reviewed his.

  10. ldr of the pk 75 10/05/2009 at 12:29 PM #

    Chop, I understand the environment is completely different today. Still doesn’t mean I can stomach the lack of discipline that seems to define more of our games than I care to see.

    Don’t get me wrong, TOB is still the right man, I think, to lead us to better days. The whole college game is more improved than it was in the old days, parity and all. No question, it’s not realistic to expect championships etc in short periods of time.

    I guess it just gets me that in all aspects of business there is so little discipline and that there are such huge amounts of money expended for so little return, year to year. I’m not giving up on the Pack, we can still have a decent run, while building for the next few years. Recruiting has been tremendous.

    I pray I’m alive to see the promised land we always get promised. Wait, you’re supposed to be dead for that aren’t you? Oh well.

  11. choppack1 10/05/2009 at 12:43 PM #

    ldr of the pk – I was at the game, and I’ll put it this way, I slammed my ball cap on the bleachers when the tackle(s) on that key 3rd down play on Wake’s last possession was missed.

    But I just think there’s a certain level of stuff that we’ll have to tolerate in a game that has changed a ton in the last 20 years.

    Also, Wake is no longer a pushover. A game at Wake, is no longer a game anyone outside of a Top 15 program, can expect to win. If you don’t play a good game – and we didn’t – you’ll likely walk away from BB&T field w/ a loss.

    This could all change once Riley Skinner is no longer the QB at Wake. I don’t think it’s coincidence that Wake’s fortunes have changed significantly since he’s taken over at the helm. If Skinner was 6-4, he’d probably be drafted in the 1st round.

    I don’t know if any research has been done into record differentials, but the difference Wake’s had since he took over as QB has to be right up there w/ some of the all-time greats.

  12. ldr of the pk 75 10/05/2009 at 2:04 PM #

    ^
    you’re correct. I guess that 3rd down is some of the growing we have to accept. But, I still hate to see it. Being as old as I am, it is refreshing to see a team like Wake be competitive if not good, except at our expense. I can remember the later parts of the Duke glory years, Cotton Bowl, etc, and I hope they get back to respectability. Not at our demise, though.

    It’s still college f’ball and some years you’re going to be up some down, doesn’t matter if you’re in the SEC, ACC, or Big Whatever.

    You can’t beat the atmosphere, win or lose. I guess I just need more points from my Wake friends.

  13. choppack1 10/05/2009 at 2:26 PM #

    “I guess that 3rd down is some of the growing we have to accept. ”

    It infuriated me at the time and it still does when I think about it. I don’t think our staff will accept it. But you know, sometimes your players have to make the plays for you to win your games. In both the USC game and this one, our guys didn’t make the key plays. Against Pitt they did.

    Of course, having your guys in the position to make plays and not making them is much better than them not being in position to make them.

    I can still vividly see that missed tackle and I can visibly see Russell’s last INT. Hopefully, these won’t go down in the same category as the 5th foul on Hodge in the Vandy game, the foul on Cliff Crawford vs. UConn, the Brian Clark fumble at FSU, the missed block in Columbus OH on the 2 point conversion…

  14. section2chuck 10/05/2009 at 2:35 PM #

    I would say as a State University, we have no business losing to Wake, or Duke in Football ever. This weekends game scares the heck out of me. We need to get our s##t together. It seems like everytime we think we have taken that next step, we go and lose to F**kin Wake Forest or someone we have no business losing to.

  15. emr62 10/05/2009 at 4:27 PM #

    Our secondary played terrible. They let Skinner throw underneath all day long. The D coaches should have made adjustments.

    The entire D: missed tackles all day long.

    Special Teams: The kickoffs were consistantly short, fielding the ball at the 15 yard line every kick…

    NC State has no running backs. Russel Wilson is the running game. Toney Baker has never lived up to his hype (sorry about his injuries – part of the game).. Jamelle Eugene is no better this year than he was as a Freshman.

    Russell Wilson did not run the ball much on Saturday.. when the receivers were covered. He threw the ball away ALOT.

    I do not understand the last drive. We have 2:30 to go in the game and were driving at the Wake 35 yard line.. why go for the TD (the whole enchilada)… we were moving the ball fine. A bad decision or play call by both the O-coordinator and Wilson to throw the ball.

    The best part of the game was the support by the State Fans.
    It was packed at Grove Stadium. Tons of State and Wake fans tailgating.
    A great atmosphere. Too bad the results were not better for this team.
    Tom O’Brien is correct… this team is not very good.

  16. emr62 10/05/2009 at 4:29 PM #

    A plea to the NC State Football Program: Please find a two running backs with some speed. And a big brusing Fullback to block for him. Thank you.

  17. JaxPackMan 10/05/2009 at 10:06 PM #

    I’m certain the players have been coached how to tackle and told the position to be in for pass coverage and the lane to stay in for a kick return. But if you think we fans are frustrated with the results — think how the coaches must feel when they have spent hours and hours going over the same mistakes again and again and again with the players. And the kids that are playing are the best that we have.

    Bur with all that said, if we score on the interception by the big lineman or get a TD instead of a field goal the Pack wins the game and all the comments are talking about what hero O’Brien is and Russell should be up for the Heisman. But we don’t get the job done when opportunity presents itself.

    The fact is Wake’s got a solid team with a great Senior QB in Riley Skinner that is setting all kinds of records (sound familiar). We one at our place last year, it was probably their turn to win at their place this year.

    Hopefully, these guys will learn how to tackle, assuming they have the physical ability, and also will play better special teams and pass defense.

    Go Pack!

  18. ryebread 10/06/2009 at 12:44 AM #

    Hmm… I was out of town this weekend, saw the score, read the post game, read the threads and THEN watched the game on my DVR tonight. It gave me an interesting perspective that’s possibly quite different than most who posted. Some thoughts….

    – The originating post is a bit extreme. We lost, but were one of several upsets in the ACC this weekend. Heck, this was a Pick ‘Em game in Vegas. There’s no reason to start with that type of tone. This isn’t a program make or break game (ah la @ Ohio State).

    – I’ve said numerous times on the forums earlier in the year that we don’t tackle well as a defense, we don’t get pressure on the QB without blitzing and we play too soft on the corners. Unfortunately, these seem to be staples of our defenses under Archer. This is a trend. I wasn’t sold on this hire initially and I’m still not 2.4 years later. I know we miss Nate, but a lot of what my untrained eye sees are issues with the scheme and what is being taught.

    – Our special teams was anything but special. We didn’t punt well, dropped a critical kick off and didn’t cover at all. The “trap door” punting formation is something that I used to laugh at other teams running because of how easy it was to block and now it’s our approach. I think it’s time to reassess our special teams approach.

    – Too many dumb, dumb penalties.

    – We won and lost this game on field position. First quarter, we owned the field position and the score. The last three we were dominated in field position and the scoreboard.

    – Some credit has to go to Wake. They got down early yet fought through adversity. They really wanted the game and it showed.

    – Skinner also played a heck of a game. In a duel of the ACC’s two best QBs, he got the upper hand. I’m glad to see that kid graduate. He reminds me a lot of Vaquez at Maryland in bball — he’s been killing us for years despite the fact that I really don’t think he’s all that good.

    – This leads me to my last comment. Wilson really didn’t have a good game. Yes, we can talk about the picks (I’d argue the last wasn’t his fault), but he didn’t have his typical accuracy, didn’t take enough on the ground and threw too many away (Wake really didn’t pressure him that much). Yes there were drops, but we’ve come to expect that. There weren’t many holes for the running game (again the norm). Ultimately though, we only scored 24 not due to anything Bible did or didn’t do, but because Wilson had for him a C- game. In an ACC filled with mediocre teams, our margin of victory (particularly on the road) is the performance of RW. Sunday, our All ACC QB looked a lot more like an average one, and thus we ultimately lost.

    Hopefully the coaches, team and fans refocus and get ready for Duke. They’ll fight us tooth and nail.

  19. tjfoose2 10/06/2009 at 2:24 AM #

    “There is no way you can seriously blame the first interception on the receivers. That was simple the worst decision I’ve seen RW make in his time here. He was throwing against his momentum, across the field, into double coverage.”

    zahadum – you are correct. I think it was this post where I stated otherwise. In watching the DVR, I have to agree. I was mistaken earlier.

  20. tjfoose2 10/06/2009 at 2:40 AM #

    “”Apparently it doesn’t matter how many times it is proven, some people simply won’t accept that fact.”

    How does that effect special teams play? Special teams is desire and planning. We are consistently giving up good field position. How is an influx of talented o-linemen (I am now convinced our talent level is low here) going to change how bad we are at that?”
    ————————————————–

    Rick, seriously? Is that a serious question? Are you really asking how can depth issues affect special teams play? I’ll just leave that alone, but I will say special teams is more than simple desire and planning.

    Also, the talent of the OLine is just fine. I’m not too familar w/ all conference schools, but the raw talent we have at that position is probably top 4 in the ACC. The problem is not w/ talent, its w/ youth, experience, and consistency (5 games, 4-5 different O-line line ups).

    O-Line is the 2nd most (if not the first) mentally taxing position on the football team. It is also the most demanding physically w/ regard to size and strength. It is therefore preferred to redshirt O-linemen, and hopefully not need them in the 2 deep till at LEAST their RS sophomore year (save a very rare exception).

    We have 4 freshman in our two deep. A true freshman is our backup center.

  21. tjfoose2 10/06/2009 at 3:16 AM #

    For those interested, our last 2 offensive lineman classes:

    2008 – All were redshirted
    4Star R.J. Mattes Starting Guard
    2Star Ahmad Jaradat No longer w/ Team
    3Star Andrew Wallace 2nd String Tackle
    3Star Zach Allen 2nd String Guard
    3Star Mario Carter (TE) Injured, out for year (I think)

    2009 – True Freshmen
    4Star Sam Jones Redshirt?
    4Star Asa Watson (TE) 3rd TE
    3Star Duran Christophe Redshirt?
    3Star Camden Wentz 2nd string Center
    4Star Denzelle Good Redshirt?

    Redshirt? = I haven’t seen them play, so I’m assuming they’ll be redshirted.

    And that’s not including 2010’s 5Star Robert Crisp, rated by everyone as a top 5 tackle, nationally.

    Project this out 2-3 years… The future of our OL looks good = the future of our team looks good.

    Now stop and think about our other units…

    The very talented (but very young) DB’s – Rashard Smith (FR), Wolffe (RSFr), Bishop (FR), CJ Wilson (RSFr), Javis Byrd(FR) – probably be redshirted this year

    Our LB’s – Terrell Manning (RSFr), Nate Irving, Audie Cole (RSFr) – former QB w/ growing pains, but he’s getting there, Dwayne Maddox (So), Sterling Lucas (So)

    Our DLine – you see a lot of our youth playing every week as backups to our starting seniors. Add former Freshman All-American Markus Kuhn, who is being redshirted. This is our most ‘senior’ group, both starters and backups. Not coincidentally, it’s also our most consistent and top performing group.

    Everyone knows the skill position players, so no need to go through the list of sophomore and freshman RB’s, WR’s, QB’s.

    There’s the specifics of my above previous arguments. Relax, show your ‘fandom’, and just be patient w/ a young ‘Pack going through growing pains.

    Btw, I missed on Manning (RSFr) during our preseason discussions. I said he’d be starting by conference play. I missed by one game. He’s starting against Duke.

  22. Rick 10/06/2009 at 8:12 AM #

    “Rick, seriously? Is that a serious question?”

    It is a very serious question. I guess you can proceed to call me an idiot or something.

  23. pack44fan 10/06/2009 at 9:01 AM #

    I think we as pack fans are starved for any success from our athletic teams hence, when the pack does have some success, we tend to go overboard in our expectations considering our recent history. Realistically, our team has some major problems. Our offensive line continues to be a work in progress. Our defensive secondary is young, inexperienced, and lacks playmakers. Our special teams leave alot to be desired. That being said, I think we will be still be competitive and should have a chance to win (or lose) in the rest of the games on our schedule.

  24. Tiew 10/06/2009 at 9:51 AM #

    I do not understand the last drive. We have 2:30 to go in the game and were driving at the Wake 35 yard line.. why go for the TD (the whole enchilada)… we were moving the ball fine. A bad decision or play call by both the O-coordinator and Wilson to throw the ball.

    emr62, Tom O’Brien talked about this play on his radio show last night. He said the call was designed to give options short, middle, and long. The long was what Wake gave us, Russell took a shot, and it didn’t work out.

  25. choppack1 10/06/2009 at 9:55 AM #

    “4Star Denzelle Good Redshirt”…Definitely redshirted, He had shoulder surgery and is out for year. He was still probably going to be redshirted, but he was impressing the coaches.

    “do not understand the last drive. We have 2:30 to go in the game and were driving at the Wake 35 yard line.. why go for the TD (the whole enchilada)… we were moving the ball fine. A bad decision or play call by both the O-coordinator and Wilson to throw the ball.”

    Well, there was single coverage on Bowens going to the endzone – good call, poor execution. It happens. I was shocked to see us going for it as well, but you can’t assume that the TD will be there.

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