Depth Chart: The Lost Class

The depth chart for the NC State’s game with Gardner-Webb has been released and shifting on the first and second team offensive lines continue.

One of the more clear developments over the last couple of weeks is the emergence of Camden Wentz as the back-up center to Ted Larsen. We covered Wentz commitment to the Wolfpack back in December and can be seen by clicking here.

# Julian Williams is now the starter at left tackle and he is being backed up by redshirt freshman Andrew Wallace.

# Senior Andy Barbee replaces Williams at left guard. Redshirt freshman Zach Allen is his reserve.

# True freshman Camden Wentz is now the backup center.

# Redshirt sophomore Henry Lawson is backing up R.J. Mattes at right guard.

# True freshman Rashard Smith is the starter at boundary corner. He is being backed up by redshirt freshman C.J. Wilson.

# Redshirt freshman Earl Wolff takes over at boundary safety. Backing him up is senior Bobby Floyd.

# Clem Johnson has moved from boundary safety to free safety. The senior is backed up by true freshman Brandan Bishop.

For much deeper insight on the depth chart you should check out this informative post on our message boards.

Three pieces of information stick out:

First, the So/R-Fr class – TOB’s first full class – takes up a full quarter of the depth chart already.

Second, the “lost class” of 2006 – the redshirt juniors and true seniors that should be the backbone of a team – are virtually nonexistent on the depth chart.

Third, the defense right now is largely a patchwork affair of ex-Junior College players, walkons, and freshmen.

Let’s pretend that all of our many injured players were healthy. How would that change the depth chart? Here’s a projection:

R-Sr: 7 offense, 3 defense (adding Eugene)
Sr/R-Jr. 4 offense, 3 defense (Adding Morgan, Irving, Walker, Bowens, dropping Augustin)
Jr/R-So: 6 offense, 3 defense (Adding Reiskamp, Crawford, Vermiglio)
So/R-Fr: 4 offense, 5 defense (Adding Jackson, dropping Grant, Graham, Wallace)
True Freshmen: 0 offense, 1 defense (Dropping Bishop, Wentz, Washington)
Former Walk-ons: 1 offense, 2 defense (Dropping Ritcher, Cureton)
JUCOs: 0 offense, 5 defense.

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30 Responses to Depth Chart: The Lost Class

  1. Noah 09/15/2009 at 8:50 AM #

    Is the lost class the last full Amato class? That was after he lost Doc and all of his best recruiters. The only real contributers from that class were brought in by the WR coach (Dixon?) that we got from Zook’s old staff.

  2. Sam92 09/15/2009 at 9:51 AM #

    that’s great information on the team, good post.

    what it all means to me is that we’re a year away from being a good solid team. Amato left the cupboard bare, and TOB’s new blood are not quite ready to take over.

    i knew the USC game would be very telling for our season – and it said that we haven’t quite arrived yet.

    We’ll do well to win 7 games this year. my real hope is that, as in the last two years, the team improves consistently over the course of the season, timing us to beat UNC at the end.

  3. MatSci94 09/15/2009 at 10:30 AM #

    I only caught a few minutes of the TOB radio show last night, but they talked quite a bit about the secondary positions. They are very positive on some of the younger players, but are being cautious about putting them in too much too soon. They also mentioned they are continuing to move people around based on 1) where they are more comfortable (the Clem Johnson move was in this category, iirc) and 2) where the group works best together.

    One question was asked about when things would be ‘settled’ from a position standpoint. TOB’s answer was ‘hopefully by conference play’, which I took to mean, ‘when we get it right’.

  4. rdjennin 09/15/2009 at 10:54 AM #

    I’ve been impressed so far with TOB’s recruiting, I think he does a much better job than people give him credit for.

    It’s a shame that we had a “lost” class, else we might be a year ahead of schedule. It’s especially frustrating that the year we “lost” Carolina had a top ten recruiting class.

    Unfortunately, I am apprehensive that we will see next year be that “year” I think that will come 2 years from now. I hope I am wrong, but it seems like we will be losing too many players (the DL), and still won’t have that needed depth and experience yet (mainly the OL). I think though, once the TOB players have worked their way up the system that we will be what we brought him here to be. A model of consistency winning 8-10 games every year.

    My main concern this year is twofold, a bowl game, and beating carolina. If we win eight, that is great. 9 wins is overacheiving.

  5. choppack1 09/15/2009 at 10:57 AM #

    I counted 21 Freshman/Sophomores on the 2 deep for this game…exactly half of your folks on the two-deep.

    Of those 21, 12 were freshman (either redshirt or true freshman). Funny thing though – we also have 20 seniors on our roster. I think we’re behind only Wake and VaTech (or something like that) for total seniors.

    To further add, we’ve got at least 3 Jucos – Mangeo, Clem Johnson and Burgess on that 2 deep who were brought in by TOB.

    I’d say that the transition has pretty much taken place. Three years in, this is definitely TOB’s team..he doesn’t have the experience or depth that he wants, but we appear to be on our way.

    I’m taking the potential redshirts of Kuhn and Underwood as very good signs.

  6. Noah 09/15/2009 at 12:05 PM #

    The cupboard wasn’t bare at all. There was just a lot of spam and discount brand soup in there.

    Attrition is still our enemy.

  7. McPete 09/15/2009 at 12:09 PM #

    That 2006 class had 19 players, 9 of whom are gone. This is the class that had only 1 offensive lineman, Gary Gregory – who hasn’t exactly starred. But he is on the two deep right now.

    Carlos Everett, Jordan Denegal, Rashad Phillips, Justin Burke, Nathan Franklin, Cedric Hickman, John Ware, Lamarcus Bond, and Everett Lewis are all gone from this class. I haven’t been following recruiting that long, i have never heard of Jordan Denegal, Carlos Evertt, or Everett Lewis. I wonder if they ever made it on campus.

    But there are some very nice players from this class, including Owen Spencer, Nate Irving, Jarvis Williams, Donald Bowens, Javon Walker, Deandre Morgan, Josh Czajkawski, Darell Davis, and Audi Augustin.

  8. BJD95 09/15/2009 at 12:26 PM #

    I like how so many of these guys are rising into the two deep already. Gives me great hope for Top 20-25 caliber performance next year, and perhaps even more in 2011-12. I’m looking forward to it.

  9. howlie 09/15/2009 at 1:24 PM #

    You’re looking forward to WTNY?

  10. El Scrotcho 09/15/2009 at 2:00 PM #

    The reasoning for 2 years out seems sound, but there’s this nagging thought in the back of my head that says most mediocre teams think they are going to arrive in 2 years.

  11. choppack1 09/15/2009 at 2:10 PM #

    Aint that the truth Scrotcho.

  12. BJD95 09/15/2009 at 3:10 PM #

    No, I’m still looking forward to this season being solid. Just not “potentially special” – that’s for 2010-12.

  13. thekind 09/15/2009 at 3:36 PM #

    I read somewhere else that William Beasley may not play this year. Does anyone know the scoop?
    Thanks in advance.

  14. FunPack 09/15/2009 at 4:01 PM #

    “The cupboard wasn’t bare at all. There was just a lot of spam and discount brand soup in there.”

    Maybe there was some government cheese in there too? 😉

    Barbee scares me. He looked very slow and overmatched against SC. Julian Williams looked slow at tackle but not as physically overwhelmed as Barbee appeared. Hopefully Vermiglio will be back soon…. and stay healthy.

  15. wolfbuff 09/15/2009 at 4:49 PM #

    This is semi-related to this BLOG post. The picture of the poster reminded me that I was in a co-worker’s office today and saw Wake Forest’s football poster. Included in their game dates was the ACC Championship. When I went back to my office and looked up at mine…nothing after the UNC game. I continue to be impressed by Wake’s athletics department in how they think, execute, and succeed. I look forward to the day when I can say that about State.

  16. 1.21 Jigawatts 09/15/2009 at 5:51 PM #

    I’ve been working on something since the middle of the summer and after finally finishing it there is a relevant thread to post it. It started off with always hearing about how “YOUNG” UNX is and then I keep hearing the media say how “Young” a team is so I thought I’d look at it by the numbers. Going back to 2006 up to opening day of 2009 I looked at each team in the ACC under 4 categories: (1) Percent of scholarship JRs/Srs on the team for that year who were recruited (essentially eliminating all walk-ons and former walk-ons, (2) Percent of Returning Starters, (3) Percent of Returning Lettermen (each school classifies lettermen differently), and (4) Percent of JRs/SRs listed on the first Depth Chart. I also included how many ACC regular season wins and if they won the division or conference but didn’t include the championship win. I ranked them 1-12 and then averaged out the ranking. Teams closer to 1 are older and more experienced. Teams closer to 12 are younger and less experienced. (# = Division Champ, ^ = Conference Champ)

    Look at how “YOUNG” UNX is in 2009…

    2006

    Team Class Returning Returning Depth AVG ACC
    Size Starters Lettermen Chart Rank Wins
    Jr/Sr% (%) (%) Jr/Sr%
    GT# 40 (2) 64 (4) 84 (1) 60 (2) 2.25 7
    Wake#^ 38 (3) 77 (1) 83 (2) 54 (9) 3.75 6
    Virginia 38 (3) 55 (5) 65 (6) 60 (2) 4.00 4
    Miami 38 (3) 50 (8) 72 (4) 60 (2) 4.25 3
    BC 38 (3) 55 (5) 70 (5) 4.33 5
    NCSU 41 (1) 50 (8) 55 (9) 60 (2) 5.00 2
    Maryland 36 (7) 68 (3) 73 (3) 51 (10) 5.75 5
    Clemson 34 (8) 73 (2) 64 (7) 57 (7) 6.00 5
    UNC 28 (11) 55 (5) 53 (10) 63 (1) 6.75 2
    VT 32 (9) 41 (11) 58 (6) 8.67 6
    Duke 29 (10) 45 (10) 61 (8) 51 (10) 9.50 0
    FSU 26 (12) 41 (11) 56 (8) 10.33 3

    2007

    Team Class Returning Returning Depth AVG ACC
    Size Starters Lettermen Chart Rank Wins
    Jr/Sr% (%) (%) Jr/Sr%
    Miami 47 (1) 73 (2) 80 (2) 67 (2) 1.75 2
    GT 41 (3) 68 (6) 80 (2) 67 (2) 3.25 4
    FSU 43 (2) 64 (7) 81 (1) 64 (4) 3.50 4
    Duke 39 (4) 73 (2) 73 (6) 58 (7) 4.75 0
    BC# 39 (4) 73 (2) 72 (8) 57 (8) 5.50 6
    Virginia 35 (8) 86 (1) 65 (11) 62 (5) 6.25 6
    Maryland 33 (10) 55 (10) 75 (4) 71 (1) 6.25 3
    NCSU 39 (4) 59 (8) 73 (6) 57 (8) 6.50 3
    Wake 35 (8) 59 (8) 72 (8) 61 (6) 7.50 5
    VT#^ 31 (11) 73 (2) 69 (10) 55 (11) 8.50 7
    Clemson 36 (7) 50 (11) 64 (12) 56 (10) 10.00 5
    UNC 27 (12) 41 (12) 74 (5) 43 (12) 10.25 3

    2008

    Team Class Returning Returning Depth AVG ACC
    Size Starters Lettermen Chart Rank Wins
    Jr/Sr% (%) (%) Jr/Sr%
    Wake 42 (2) 68 (3) 73 (3) 65 (2) 2.50 4
    Duke 38 (5) 77 (1) 74 (1) 58 (7) 3.50 1
    Clemson 40 (4) 64 (4) 74 (1) 60 (5) 3.50 4
    Maryland 37 (6) 64 (4) 73 (3) 67 (1) 3.50 4
    FSU 46 (1) 59 (6) 73 (3) 56 (8) 4.50 5
    Miami 42 (2) 45 (9) 70 (6) 62 (3) 5.00 4
    UNC 32 (9) 77 (1) 69 (7) 51 (9) 6.50 4
    BC# 37 (6) 55 (7) 67 (9) 59 (6) 7.00 5
    VT#^ 30 (10) 45 (9) 60 (10) 62 (3) 8.00 5
    NCSU 35 (8) 41 (11) 52 (12) 51 (9) 10.00 4
    Virginia 29 (11) 50 (8) 57 (11) 49 (11) 10.25 3
    GT 29 (11) 36 (12) 68 (8) 40 (12) 10.75 5

    2009

    Team Class Returning Returning Depth AVG ACC
    Size Starters Lettermen Chart Rank Wins
    Jr/Sr% (%) (%) Jr/Sr%
    UNC 43 (1) 68 (3) 69 (5) 65 (1) 2.50
    Miami 37 (3) 73 (2) 70 (4) 54 (3) 3.00
    Clemson 36 (5) 68 (3) 68 (7) 54 (3) 4.50
    NCSU 37 (3) 59 (6) 65 (9) 60 (2) 5.00
    BC 39 (2) 59 (6) 71 (3) 48 (9) 5.00
    VT 25 (12) 68 (3) 75 (1) 52 (5) 5.25
    Duke 36 (5) 45 (11) 73 (2) 52 (5) 5.75
    GT 29 (8) 77 (1) 64 (10) 52 (5) 6.00
    Wake 29 (8) 59 (6) 69 (5) 50 (8) 6.75
    FSU 32 (7) 59 (6) 63 (11) 40 (12) 9.00
    Virginia 28 (10) 50 (10) 68 (7) 45 (10) 9.25
    Maryland 28 (10) 45 (11) 57 (12) 45 (10) 10.75

    EDIT….Table format looks real good compared to this mess. Any suggestions?

  17. Broccoman 09/15/2009 at 5:53 PM #

    We may be chopping wood still, but at least the wood is being built on a solid foundation and not quicksand.

  18. packalum44 09/15/2009 at 7:53 PM #

    Its a good sign these young guys are beating out the older ones.

  19. choppack1 09/16/2009 at 8:30 AM #

    1.21 – that’s good stuff.

    However, from that data, one would conclude that neither UNC NOR NC State is that young.

    Are most of UNC’s returning guys JRs or Seniors?

  20. 1.21 Jigawatts 09/16/2009 at 8:56 AM #

    2009
    UNX retuns 10 Seniors and 24 Juniors.
    State returns 14 Seniors and 14 Juniors.

    I’ve got all of this broken down in multiple tables it’s just too big to put in a reply.

  21. choppack1 09/16/2009 at 9:16 AM #

    Cool. Thanks. Interesting stuff.

    Hopefully, 24 of those juniors will leave for greener pastures…that’s impressive that so many from a class remain.

  22. Noah 09/16/2009 at 9:26 AM #

    From what I can recall…

    Everett and Denegal were both smallish WR/DB types from Florida with very shaky academics. I don’t even know if they ever made it to campus.

    Phillips was a tall, skinny TE who mangled his leg in a car accident and had to give up football.

    Burke, we know about. I’m still stunned that O’Brien didn’t think he could help us more than Evans or Beck.

    Franklin quit on his own.

    Hickman had legal problems (and is now playing somewhere at a small school).

    LaMarcus Bond quit because he didn’t want to move to DB…but didn’t have the hands to play WR.

    John Ware had grade problems and I don’t remember what happened to the last guy.

    Amato’s classes had a lot of problems. One of them was that he constantly fished at the pond filled with academic question marks. For whatever reason, his classes were filled with guys who were always hovering around that bare minimum for qualifying.

    I talked to a guy who worked in the administration and he said that Amato would bring in these recruiting classes to Admissions Office and he’d have 25 guys…20 of whom would have qualified by the skin of their teeth.

    That meant that every year, we were going to lose some guys who wouldn’t get in and every year, we were going to lose some guys who had gotten in and then flunked out because they just weren’t college material.

  23. choppack1 09/16/2009 at 9:51 AM #

    Noah – statistically was that different from the last regime? I seem to recall MOC having all kinds of problems w/ attrition.

  24. Noah 09/16/2009 at 1:42 PM #

    Just in terms of pure numbers of losses, I would bet that O’Cain lost more players.

    We had a couple of years where we had just incredible amounts of injuries (the first 3-8 year in 1995). Every damn day, you’d pick up the paper and someone else’s leg had fallen off.

    We also had the shooting incident at the gymnastics girls party. We had the fight with the basketball team (memories are getting vague for the mid 90s). We always had a couple of guys who weren’t actually ACC-caliber talent drop back and try to punch their weight at I-AA (how’s that for THREE mixed metaphors in one sentence?).

    Sheridan’s last class was probably on-par with Mack Brown’s class on National Signing Day. Unfortunately, our class was filled with rainbows and unicorns. Trot Nixon played baseball, Montez Moye never showed up, Brandon Davis turned out to be a career pulled-hamstring injury, Brad Collins turned out to be two steps too slow and 20 pounds too light, Kyle Bullock (or Blaylock…can’t remember) turned out to have degenerative condition in his shoulder…

    Meanwhile, Carolina’s class was filled with guys like Brian Simmons, K-Mays, and all of those guys that made up the bulk of those two Gator Bowl teams. Seems like they even got Jeff Saturday as a freaking walk-on.

    But…Amato’s attrition was self-inflicted. If you bring in 20 guys who are just BARELY qualified, you’re going to have academic casualties.

  25. Noah 09/16/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    Something else too…

    Look at this: http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=989063

    I don’t know if that’s a $ article or not, but if it isn’t, look at the schools that had little or no attrition. Then look at the schools that lost tons of players. See the difference?

    The schools that lost very few players were schools like LSU, Texas, Michigan, USC, and Florida. The schools that lost a bunch were UNC, Ole Miss, Miss. State, Arkansas, and Auburn.

    The college football elite don’t HAVE to recruit academic question marks or troubled kids. That means that everyone else has to look at the questionable character/mind kids in order to compete.

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