[Updated 5:30pm] #119 in the country – Is NC State Basketball going to be this bad?

CollegeHoops.net is counting down their preseason ranking of every college basketball team and unfortunately for us the Wolfpack’s preview popped up three full months before the season is slated to tip-off.

This link will take you to CollegeHoops’ preview for the #119 ranked NC State Wolfpack, who the site selects to finish last in the ACC (in Coach Sidney Lowe’s fourth season).

You never get perfect insight from national resources who have broad perspectives on things, but this one alright. I don’t know if it is good or bad that they think Lorenzo Brown will be in a Wolfpack uniform this season and they still choose us #119.

Final Projection:
The Atlantic Coast Conference is very tough as always and the Wolfpack will have trouble stopping anybody under the basket if one of the newcomers cannot step in and at least play defense right away. If Smith and Horner are the starting frontcourt, NC State will be a team that lacks toughness in the paint and that is never a good thing in the ACC.

Projected Post-season Tournament: CBI/CIT

Projected Starting Five:
Javier Gonzalez, Junior, Guard, 6.6 points per game
Julius Mays, Sophomore, Guard, 4.7 points per game
C.J. Williams, Sophomore, Forward, 3.7 points per game
Tracy Smith, Junior, Forward, 10.0 points per game
Dennis Horner, Senior, Forward, 6.4 points per game

I am not going to re-hash all of the pre-season talk in which we have already engaged this summer. If you aren’t a daily reader then you should click here for the robust conversation that we had after the Lorenzo Brown news became public last week and click here for another fantastic entry that brings together a lot of summer basketball items and conversations.

One interesting item that we have not yet highlighted this summer is this entry written by Adam Gold shortly after we learned that Lorenzo Brown was not going to be eligible. It takes a broader view of the Brown loss.

Lorenzo Brown isn’t walking through that door.

No offense to Lorenzo, whom I’ve yet to actually see play a basketball game, but I don’t see where that really matters that much to the black cloud that appears to hover over NC State basketball. Remember, that as good as Brown is rumored to be, he was still only rated as a top 40 player by Scout and Rivals, so we’re not really talking about the next Eric Gordon.

That’s not to say that Brown not being a part of the 2009-10 recruiting class isn’t significant. I think it’s highly significant, just not necessarily in a basketball sense. Clearly, the Wolfpack is facing a climb up a very steep slope in order to squeeze into the upper half of the ACC, but that was the case even had Brown gotten through the NCAA’s academic filter.

The significance of Brown not showing up on campus is far more damaging to the public image of the program for two major reasons. The first being that — based on Brown’s reputation — Sidney Lowe won’t be able to showcase his best recruit since J.J. Hickson to the fans to at least give them a glimpse of the type of talent he’s capable of bringing to — and cultivating in — Raleigh. Without Brown on hand, it’s just a team full of role players and no star power, in other words, nothing to alert the media about.

The second, and most troubling part of this equation, is that if you’re the head coach, you absolutely have to know that your #1 recruit is going to be an academic qualifier. I don’t see this as an option. When you’re trying to build a program, and you share an airport with two of the greatest programs in the history of the sport, you have to make sure that the star-caliber players you do get, qualify to play academically and you don’t get caught cheating to get them.

I think Sidney Lowe is a good basketball coach. There are zero men who are given the reins to coach 300 NBA games who can’t coach. I’ve always said that the proof will be whether or not Lowe can attract good enough players to build a strong, contending program on Hillsborough Street. Through 4 years, there’s no indication that recruiting is significantly better than it was during the first four years under Herb Sendek — and we all know that recruiting was the element that took the longest to catch up during the previous administration.

State probably can’t be as good without Brown as they would have been with him, but that element isn’t nearly as damaging as the PR hit you take when your ONLY high-profile recruit doesn’t make the grade — literally.

Updated @ 5pm
Talk about good timing, ESPN has also posted “ACC Shootaround” that takes a broad look at the ACC. I kind of like how much information that they put into this.

They pick the State 11th in the league heading into the season.

11. NC State:The Wolfpack are close, but the only way they get over the hump is with better guard play. Sidney Lowe’s teams have had solid big men, but always seem to fall short in backcourt battles. Being healthy will help, but now the Pack needs some players to step forward and take over the scoring load.

Additionally, they mentioned the Wolfpack on a couple of other points and each mention has an explicit or implicit focus on Coach Sidney Lowe; so, you can see the story line building towards the season.

10. The Lowe down: NC State coach Sidney Lowe said he was going to get a call from good friend and former NBA mentor Flip Saunders about an assistant job with the Washington Wizards. Lowe took the call and stayed put. While the Wolfpack have had a few NBA players come through during Lowe’s tenure, the winning hasn’t been consistent. Making a change now would have meant another rebuilding phase. Keeping Lowe allows for more consistency; whether that translates into more wins, we’ll have to see.

The Wolfpack is all about Sidney Lowe now. The players are his, so the rebuilding is now officially his project. But the team took a hit when high-profile newcomer Lorenzo Brown was shipped off to Hargrave Military Academy instead of the NCSU campus. Brown was the No. 9 shooting guard in the 2009 ESPNU 100. Sophomore C.J. Williams has been the summer stud. He averaged only 3.7 points a game last season, but he’s expected to produce much more after his play this summer.

Tracy Smith was named one of the 10 Key Players in the league…

6. Tracy Smith, Sr., NC State: The Wolfpack need someone — anyone — to stand up and become a go-to player for a squad that has lost its way. This 6-foot-8 forward could be that person in lieu of the departure of Brandon Costner. Smith had his moments last season, averaging 10 ppg on 54 percent shooting. But the Detroit native needs to be the focus for the Pack to snap out of their fog.

…and Scott Wood was named one of the 10 Freshman they can’t wait to see. I agree with them about Wood.

6. Scott Wood, SG, NC State: At 6-7, Wood is a tremendous long-range shooter and has the size to see over defenders. He has a great IQ for the game, but to maximize his impact, he needs to commit himself to improving defensively.

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09-10 Basketball

46 Responses to [Updated 5:30pm] #119 in the country – Is NC State Basketball going to be this bad?

  1. McCallum 08/19/2009 at 3:00 PM #

    I don’t think you did “get it”.

    There is nothing to talk about. Vote with your feet.

    McCallum

  2. rtpack24 08/19/2009 at 3:16 PM #

    Most of the time I do not put much stock in Adam Gold’s views or thoughts. However, I do not believe he is way off here. We have had a glowing need for a guard since Sid got the job and here we are in year 4 with no proven ACC caliber back court play. Maybe some potential but not one go to player in the backcourt. If Brown did not qualify due to missing too many classes that is on our staff. Recruiting is a difficult and tricky business and in a major program you must be prepared to compete every year because next year never gets here. I certainly hope we have a good year this year and it will be a down year for the ACC so maybe we will have a chance.

  3. Wufpacker 08/19/2009 at 3:34 PM #

    After reading the quoted portion of Adam Gold’s write-up I had the exact same first thought as BJD. Saying Sid is a “good basketball coach” does not equate to being a good “college” basketball coach, or a good “head” coach. And a quote from further down in his article….

    “…if you’re the head coach, you absolutely have to know that your #1 recruit is going to be an academic qualifier.”

    This, in addition to a few other shortcomings, pretty much sums up why there is a difference in being a “good coach” and being a “good college head coach”. Don’t get me wrong, there are some things about Sid’s coaching that I really do like. But when considering the whole package, taken as an overall impression, there are a few very important things lacking. This causes the overall result/product on the floor to be sub-par, and that is just not acceptable.

    Hopefully this will not be interpreted (again) as hating Sid. Its pretty sad that I even feel the need to say that.

    Regarding us being picked 119th in the country, and dead last in the ACC, I hate to say it but until proven otherwise that sounds just about right to me.

  4. Thinkpack17 08/19/2009 at 4:06 PM #

    I’ll say this, a few of us have extensive knowledge of basketball. But the vast majority of us are armchair coaches. People have the right to criticize Sid, and a lot of good points have been made. But just because you don’t understand some of Sid’s moves doesn’t make him a bad coach. Because no matter what you think of him Sid has forgotten more about basketball than most of us (including me) will ever know. Some people on this board don’t know as much as they think they know based on some of the comments that have been made.

    I have asked my Duke friends “Why does Coach K try to press much more athletic guards with his ‘scrappy’, slow ones?” That really used to bug me. I told my UNC friends “I heard Roy is going to try to push the pace with a young backcourt, when he should just walk the ball up and throw it into one of his 7 big men. I just don’t get it.” Just because I don’t understand why they make those decisions, that doesn’t make them bad coaches…maybe the fact that I have never coached or managed a team (other than fantasy football) limits my comprehension. Again not saying we shouldn’t critique, just trying to give some perspective.

  5. Wufpacker 08/19/2009 at 4:32 PM #

    Your point is well-taken ThinkPack17, and I agree that not everyone, whether they have a high level of basketball knowledge or not, is going to agree with every move that a coach makes. I also agree that this doesn’t make them bad coaches.

    But ultimately a coach is expected to put a competitive product on the floor and win games. Even the most uneducated (basketball-wise, that is) and disinterested observer, knowing only that the ultimate goal is to win games, can come to a fairly accurate conclusion regarding the overall results that a coach is producing.

    And, after a certain number of years of producing these results, it becomes a pretty predictable pattern.

  6. Thinkpack17 08/19/2009 at 4:45 PM #

    Very true.

  7. budfox88 08/19/2009 at 5:25 PM #

    We are aweful, and will be until a coach can appeal to higher talent than the auto-recruitment at tarhole and dook country. The stigma within NCSU bball is a death sentence, however slow and painful, that plagues recruitment and will for years to come. Since our facilities are better than anyone else “nearby”, and our fanbase is huge, the coaching is the weakest link, and will be until we get a coach (and AD) at least the caliber of our “nearby” competition. Why would anyone of exceptional talent come play for us?

  8. McCallum 08/19/2009 at 6:05 PM #

    Maybe those with basketball “knowledge” possibly understand that until the AD is canned and Sid is let go, as gently as possible, then nothing but bad news and stomach ulcers will gain rise in Raleigh?

    Could it be?

    McCallum

  9. packpowerfan 08/19/2009 at 6:48 PM #

    HAHAHA McCallum you crack me up. No one who knows anything at NCSU is doing a damn thing about Lee Fowler or Sidney Lowe. Maybe we could ask that girl who tried to take Ben Rapistberger to court to say the same thing about Lee Fowler? MAYBE?

  10. Bubba 08/19/2009 at 7:34 PM #

    BJD

    Cant wait to read your thoughts on the strength and conditioning coaches being shuffled about.From the players that I talked to, it was a real head scratcher.They all hated to see The Rock relocated.He was tough on them but they enjoyed the results.

  11. blpack 08/19/2009 at 9:16 PM #

    If we finish that poorly we ought to make ‘coach’ Fowler coach them. It’s on his watch and we look to have such a long way to go, even in a down year for the league.

  12. highstick 08/19/2009 at 10:22 PM #

    My preseason pick is that we finish 13th! So freakin’ bad that we couldn’t even beat ourselves!

    I’m impatiently waiting on this change we were supposed to get!

  13. tvp1 08/19/2009 at 10:47 PM #

    This upcoming basketball season is the first State football or basketball season in a long time that I’m actively dreading…to the point that I wish it would not even happen somehow.

    With Herb, there was always some small hope that *this* year would finally be the breakthrough year. Even going into his 6th year, when he should have been fired, we at least had an alleged (and it turns out, actual) savior in Hodge coming in, and his later teams were at least decent if uninspiring.

    CTC collapsed quickly rather than a long death spiral a la Lowe. Going into his last year, we were coming off of a bowl win. To enter a 4th year with absolutely NO legitimate hope for even an NCAA bid…

    You’d have to go back to the Les/MOC years to find as dismal an outlook for a season as we have with 09-10 wolfpack basketball.

    Contrast that with football, where I’ve literally counted down the days until 9/3 for the past month. Great TOB comment here:

    “”It’s a different year, and in your third year you ought to be a better football team,” O’Brien said. “We don’t need measuring sticks; we need to win football games. That’s the bottom line.””

  14. travelwolf 08/20/2009 at 1:57 AM #

    Yes, unfortunately.

    The odds are against us. I hope Lowe can prove me wrong!!!

  15. Broccoman 08/20/2009 at 6:30 AM #

    Packpower fan: we’d be better off getting that girl’s grandmother- cougars and all that you know.

    It’s NCAA bubble or bust time for me in my eyes, even if that would be playing above the talent level. Sid’s going to have to prove he’s a great coach this year, not just a good one, or he’s lost my support.

  16. Noah 08/20/2009 at 7:17 AM #

    Lee Fowler is never EVER going to be fired. You saw what happened the last time someone with half a brain and at least half a ball tried to do that.

  17. bradleyb123 08/20/2009 at 10:30 AM #

    Yes, we were picked to finish dead last in the ACC and 119th in the country. A couple of years ago, we were also picked to finish 3rd in the ACC. This year, Carolina is in the top 20 in MANY polls in football, despite all their questions on offense.

    Preseason polls are meaningless. I wish polls could be banned until X number of games have been played (especially in football, where polls carry more weight). Some of you guys are preaching doom and gloom in here. If I didn’t know any better, I’d think it was January, and we were 2-21 or something.

    Just wanted to remind everyone that it’s still August. 🙂

  18. Wufpacker 08/20/2009 at 2:44 PM #

    tvp1 said:
    “This upcoming basketball season is the first State football or basketball season in a long time that I’m actively dreading…to the point that I wish it would not even happen somehow.”

    If true that is very impressive. You are a better fan than I. I can all to well remember at least a handful of seasons that I was actively dreading. Granted, most were during Les’ time, but I still remember the feeling of dread just fine. This year is as bad as those, but certainly no worse.

    bradleyb123 said:
    “Preseason polls are meaningless. I wish polls could be banned until X number of games have been played”

    I wholeheartedly agree. Especially in football, preseason polls do nothing but penalize teams that receive less hype. However, that does not mean that they are necessarily always wrong. And while it seems somewhat common for a team to be overestimated (finishing worse than expected, a la the ’07-’08 Wolfpack basketball team projected to finish 3rd), it seems less common to me for a team to be underestimated and end up finishing significantly better than expected. I have no hard data to support this belief; it is nothing more than the product of my (admittedly) amateur observations and faulty (at times) memory.

    But if I am correct, it is probably because teams that are projected to suck are probably receiving those expectations for good reason. Its easier to fall short of expectations than to surpass them.

    I had already been expecting (and dreading) poor results for bball for this upcoming season. All of the early prognostications are pretty much right on par with my own expectations. For that reason, I see no reason to alter those expectations at this point in time.

  19. choppack1 08/20/2009 at 7:29 PM #

    Noah – do you really think that McQueen’s downfall was trying to get rid of Fowler?

  20. Noah 08/20/2009 at 9:44 PM #

    Mcqueen and several others…I have no doubts.

  21. PackerInRussia 08/20/2009 at 10:05 PM #

    “11. NC State:The Wolfpack are close…”

    Close to what? The only thing you’re close to when picked to finish 11th is last place.

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