Lorenzo Brown – Another One Bites the Dust

I apologize for not being more timely – I’ve been on vacation and out of the loop. But yes, what you may have heard is indeed true – Lorenzo Brown is headed to prep school and will not suit up for the 2009-10 Wolfpack squad. No matter how down the ACC may be, this is almost certainly a fatal blow for NC State’s already remote chance to contend for first division status.

Long-time readers will note that SFN commenter Noah has been hinting about possible issues with Brown ever since he committed to the Pack. Although we (and you) may fervently hope Noah is wrong, perhaps it’s time to stop expecting him to be so.

The obvious question now is “what happens next?” We can break that down into two parts – what should happen, and what to expect from the Lowe camp and his enablers.

On the should side of the ledger, nothing changes in the bar set, just the math regarding the likelihood of clearing it. Again, the fundamental key is distinguishing between fault and responsibility. While it is not Lowe’s fault that Lorenzo Brown’s grades fell short of what Georgia requires, in Season #4 the state of the program is Lowe’s absolute and unequivocal responsibility. The product on the floor must be something that NC State can be proud of. No excuses. Giving Lowe “credit” for recruiting rankings while giving him a pass when said recruits fail to qualify is the height of idiocy. But if you focus on bottom-line responsibility, it doesn’t matter. You can produce by bringing in great talent (ala Guy Lewis), or you can overachieve with lesser talent (ala Seth Greenberg). Either way, you have to produce. Lowe is not likely to produce with the current roster, but that’s on him. He is the coach and the general manager.

So, back to prong two. What should you expect? Well, for Team Lowe and its dwindling band of true believers, this is actually perfect. It gives you the perfect opportunity to intensify the pre-emptive excuse making. WTNY!!!!! Since almost every pundit will now expect State to finish 11th or 12th, they can (and will) shift the focus to beat “expectations” – despite the fact that expectations are so low because of the personnel Lowe has brought in and Lowe’s demonstrated coaching “acumen.” A career-best 9th place finish after four years gets you a pink slip from 95% of major D-1 programs, but the dead-enders would demand a contract extension instead. And since it isn’t possible to perform below expectations (i.e., you can’t fall off the floor), they will deem anyone not satisfied with 2009-10 results as delusional. Expect Fowler (if he’s still here) to break out the “lunatic fringe” term again.

More importantly, the status quo folks get to double down on blackmail. Lorenzo Brown and Ryan Harrow are both from the same recruiting pipeline, and will thus have access to the same set of talking points (that Harrow has already been testing out over the summer). Expect this to get a lot less subtle, and a lot more public – certainly no later than January 2010 (fun idea – run a pool for the date of the next public article with a qualifying Brown or Harrow quote). With Lowe’s tacit or explicit approval, these young men will declare that they are committed to Sidney Lowe, not NC State. This is certainly true of a certain individual deeply intertwined with their recruitment. And since recruits have not taken the court in a college game (and thus only have untapped potential for greatness, and no weaknesses in the eyes of many), some people will take this as a legitimate consideration. This is true despite what happened the last time NC State faced such a situation, which led to five years of basketball limbo – and that was with the best player in school history since the legendary David Thompson, not two Top 50 kids.

Feel free to shoot the messenger in the comments – but that’s simply how I see things shaking out. Things are ugly in West Raleigh, and about to get much, much uglier. Brace yourselves for the coming storm.

Projected 2009-2010 NC State Basketball Roster

Senior Class
(1) Dennis Horner (F)
(2) Farnold Degand (PG)

Junior Class
(3) Javi Gonzalez (PG)
(4) Tracy Smith (4F)

Sophomore Class
(5) Johnny Thomas (Wing)
(6) Julius Mays (PG/SG)
(7) CJ Williams (Wing)

Freshman Class
(8) Scott Wood (Wing)
(9) DeShawn Painter (PF/C)
(10) Richard Howell (PF)
(11) Josh Davis (WF)
(12) Jordan Vandenberg (C)

2010 Commits
(13) Lorenzo Brown (PG/SG)
(1) Departure of Dennis Horner – Ryan Harrow (PG)
(2) Departure of Farnold Degand – Previously CJ Leslie (PF/C)

2011 Commits
(3) Departure of Javi Gonzalez
(4) Departure of Tracy Smith

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball Basketball Recruiting

159 Responses to Lorenzo Brown – Another One Bites the Dust

  1. Rick 07/13/2009 at 10:34 AM #

    “(1) Dennis Horner (3/4) SR
    (2) Javi Gonzalez (1) JR
    (3) Tracy Smith (4/5) JR
    (4) Julius Mays (1/2) SOPH
    (5) CJ Williams (2/3) SOPH”

    That is such an awful starting 5. It seriously vies for worst starting 5 at NCSU ever.

  2. 61Packer 07/13/2009 at 10:34 AM #

    Dear Wolfpackers,

    Whoooo doggie!! We’ve won another national championship here at NCSU! Yes, the Under Armour College Bass National Championship has AGAIN come back to Raleigh. Beating out a formidable field from North Texas, Northwestern State, Montevallo and Louisiana-Lafayette, the Wolfpack has brought home the bacon. Well, make that fish.

    Next year, I’m working on an exciting plan to bring this tournament to Lake Gaston, so our fans will be able to witness history live when we three-peat.

    No doubt about it, Wolfpack sports are on the rise. We’re going to get you hooked, even on basketball!

    Sincerely,
    Jed, AD

  3. Wulfpack 07/13/2009 at 10:40 AM #

    UNC returns Drew and Ginyard in the back court. All Drew has to do is lob the ball in the post to anyone of their 4 or 5 studs in the post. All Ginyard has to do is play defense.

    Our guards have to do everything.

  4. LRM 07/13/2009 at 10:59 AM #

    Wait, I’m confused. Are we saying that some kid that has never played a game for State and isn’t even a student will make us a worse team this year?

    Just another reason I think the attention paid to recruiting is ridiculous.

    Lowe wouldn’t have miraculously become a better coach with Brown on the roster (or even Wall). Sure, we might have won a few more games just off talent alone, but based on the player-development I’ve seen out of Lowe, this Brown kid will contribute to our success just as much at whatever prep school he attends as he would have here.

  5. choppack1 07/13/2009 at 11:29 AM #

    “Sidney Lowe is also suited for the NBA, not college basketball. It has been and remains trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.”

    Hmm – a strange statement given his NBA record as a HC coach in the league. Of course, I do think he’s proven to be a decent assistant coach.

    “ryebread is spot on – most of you remember Sendek’s fifth season. Congratulations, you are about to re-live it. For the newcomers, you will soon understand the agony that we old-timers rail about.”

    Heck, I thought Herb’s 5th was what we went through Sid’s 2nd year.

    I did see some signs of progress last year, but this is a huge loss for us in that Lo Brown supposedly brought in a unique skillset.

    If there’s a winner in this it could be Julius Mays. He should see some minutes at the two spot – of course, his playing time may follow the same patter as it did last year where he missed virtually the entire second half of the ACC regular season.

  6. bradleyb123 07/13/2009 at 11:31 AM #

    ^ “SFN: Get over yourself. That is ridiculous. There is no ‘anti-Sid’ agenda here. There is a pro-NC State agenda here. NC State’s basketball program has been near the bottom of the ACC for the last three years and now is projected to be in the exact same position for year four.”

    I call ’em as I see ’em. Several others have noticed the same thing and posted about it several times. Sid can do no right for some here. If we finish 8th in the ACC, some here will complain that we didn’t finish 6th. If we go .500 in the ACC, some will complain that we didn’t go .600 in the ACC. I say this because once the season ended, ALL SID COULD DO WAS RECRUIT. He could not win any more games or championships. He’s in a recruiting period. And he has a darn FINE recruiting class, especially considering all he has to sell recruits was three straight losing seasons led by a coach supposedly on the hotseat. Yet Sid STILL brought them in. And some here still complain. They give him props for nothing. One guy complained that Sid didn’t bring in a top 10 class. True. But by at least one account, he brought in a top 11 class. What else could the man do to get props he deserves? The season is over. But he did WELL in recruiting.

    I’m not talking about everyone or even the majority here. But there are some big players on this blog that would probably admit they just want Sid gone. They are the ones with the agenda.

    The evidence of the anti-Sid agenda is in the posts that never once give Sid credit, even when it is due. That spells A-G-E-N-D-A. They want Sid gone. To give Sid an ounce of credit would run opposite to that agenda.

    Sid lost a kid that he thought would be cleared to play. It happens. It is NOT his fault. To blame Sid for this is even more evidence of the anti-Sid agenda on the part of some.

    And to blame Sid for recruiting someone like Brown who could not make it in, while giving TOB a pass for doing the same exact thing, is also hypocrisy. I love TOB as much as anyone. I expect championships, and soon. But if you’re going to rake Sidney over the coals, while barely blinking at TOB when some of his recruits are in the same boat, makes no sense. Well, unless there is an agenda.

    And I love NC State as much as anybody here. I want us to win in basketball more than anyone knows. I just say let Sid stick around for a year (at least), maybe two, and see what he does with these recruits. But too many just want him gone as soon as possible, never mind the hit to recruiting that would cause.

  7. tvp1 07/13/2009 at 11:33 AM #

    Re: How this news affects the criteria, they do for me in this respect: For this team to even get close to the NCAAs will require a masterful coaching job. The roster does not look like an NCAA team whatsoever. So if we are close, then by necessity Sid will have shown much more coaching ability than he has to date.

  8. tvp1 07/13/2009 at 11:38 AM #

    “It is clear that some here have an anti-Sid agenda. The evidence is in their posts that never once give Sid credit, even when it is due. That spells A-G-E-N-D-A. They want Sid gone. To give Sid an ounce of credit would run opposite to that agenda.”

    Query: What exactly does Sid deserve credit for at this point? I’m serious.

  9. bradleyb123 07/13/2009 at 11:48 AM #

    ^ “Query: What exactly does Sid deserve credit for at this point? I’m serious.”

    Did you read anything I wrote about his highly-rated recruiting class? How many coaches could finish at or near the bottom of a 12 team conference for three straight years, and bring in such a highly rated recruiting class? Especially with a coach that is perceived by many to be on the hotseat. I suspect not too many.

    The point is that since April, all Sidney could do was recruit. And he passed that task with flying colors. Yet people still blame him for this recruit not passing muster. Sid is not to blame for this. He did his part. It just didn’t work out for Lo Brown, and that is Lo’s fault. Not LOWE’S fault.

  10. Packman02 07/13/2009 at 11:52 AM #

    ^ “Query: What exactly does Sid deserve credit for at this point? I’m serious.”

    1). In-roads and wins (Harrow) he’s made with the studs of the Class of 2010 and 2011

    2). Agreeing to schedule interesting OofC matchups (Marquette, UF, etc.)

    3). KEEPING LARRY HARRIS IN RALEIGH !!!

    4) … he’s not Herb.

    🙂

  11. BJD95 07/13/2009 at 11:57 AM #

    Thanks for illustrating my point – focusing on fault, not responsibility. Hell, you’re even capitalizing for us!

    His job isn’t to recruit. It’s just one means to an end (winning games). If he makes the NCAAT, he’ll be off the hot seat. I will be very impressed if he does, given how unlikely I think it is – BASED ON WHAT I’VE SEEN REGARDING HIS COACHING ABILITY. If he doesn’t, he should be fired, recruiting stars be damned.

    This thread is not intended as “blaming” Lowe for Brown not qualifying (that’s your strawman, fault-based argument) – it is a pre-emptive strike against (i) writing off Lowe’s fourth season because of “bad luck”; and (ii) letting NC State be held hostage over two Top 50 recruits.

  12. Bubba 07/13/2009 at 12:24 PM #

    Rick

    I was thinking the same thing. Been a Pack fan since the 1950’s and on paper, this may very well be one of the worst starting 5’s in history.I just hope that Painter,Howell and Wood are major surprises and the lineup can somehow evolve into a Javi,Wood,Howell,Smith and Painter fivesome.

    Tough conundrum to solve in the near future. Will the potential of 2 five-star guards (a true point, and a 2 guard) being committed be enough to give Sid a 5th year?Too early for me to answer though I see some have already decided.Should be some interesting conversations over the next 9 months…….. Stay tuned

  13. GApack04 07/13/2009 at 12:27 PM #

    I’m really going to hate this hostage situation with two top 50 guys next year. There are very few things Sid can do to get fired next year – go 0-16 in the ACC? cuss out the N&O?, take a bogus job with the University and accept money for doing nada? (sorry wrong person)

    In seriousness this is it for me with Sid. I want to see improvement, I want to see effort, most importantly I want to see coaching!!! If he can’t do it this year, even if they don’t make the NCAAT, with his guys then he will never do it.

  14. Matthew09 07/13/2009 at 12:28 PM #

    It’s the pre-emptive strikes that exhaust me. How many pre-emptive strikes do we need before the target is obliterated? Everyone who has spent ten minutes on here knows that there is no more grace period for Sid Lowe. The “we need to be patient and give Sid five years” stuff when he was hired was gone after his first season. Fair enough. You don’t think he can do the job. I get it. But why, why, must every single blasted thread become a “let me explain why Sid stinks and everyone who still has an ounce of patience with him is an enabler” parade? At this point, can’t we just let the season play out?

  15. BJD95 07/13/2009 at 12:41 PM #

    ^ Matthew, I don’t think the “be patient and wait five years” argument is dead and buried at all. Fowler and lowe have been sowing the seeds for yet another mulligan virtually the entire offseason (the enablers have been doggedly pursuing such in the comments here, as well).

    I would be fine waiting for the season to play out, but I don’t have confidence that the line in the sand has been drawn. NC State cannot afford to allow the status quo forces to gain the initiative.

  16. NCSU4ever 07/13/2009 at 12:44 PM #

    A good coach could take this squad and still find a way to win 8 ACC games. If Sid still comes up short this season it is because of his own inability to manage his roster and motivate players.

    This year should be sink or swim for Sid, no more excuses.

    I still dread the thought of another coaching search conducted by Lee Fowler

  17. CStanley 07/13/2009 at 12:55 PM #

    I’ve been hopeful, but I haven’t seen anything from Sid’s first 3 years to think that we were on the right track in terms of basketball. While this recruiting class was/is impressive on paper, the proof is in the pudding. A lot of folks were quick to say we had turned the corner before the season even started. In the meantime, I wasn’t so sure we should have made a change after this past season, but that’s just me.

    I’m willing to give it one more year, but even WITH Lo Brown, I wasn’t holding out a lot of hope. Now, I feel like we’re just delaying the inevitable.

    I still hold true to my opinion that I don’t think Sid is entirely to blame here…before anyone else in the athletics program goes, Lee Fowler should lead the charge. I just think Sid is in over his head here.

  18. Bubba 07/13/2009 at 12:59 PM #

    BJD(not trying to single you out) But do you think that your “drawing a line in the sand” will have any bearing on whether Sid gets a 5th year.

    For me (not sure if I’m an enabler because I’m too old and dumb to know what that is)the thought of finally having 2 ACC quality guards for the 1st time since Chris and Rodney should/will carry some weight.At least then a new coach will step into a nice situation with a good backcourt to build upon. I guess my point is, does one more year of poor coaching really matter? 🙂

  19. choppack1 07/13/2009 at 1:08 PM #

    “I call ‘em as I see ‘em. Several others have noticed the same thing and posted about it several times. Sid can do no right for some here. If we finish 8th in the ACC, some here will complain that we didn’t finish 6th. If we go .500 in the ACC, some will complain that we didn’t go .600 in the ACC. I say this because once the season ended, ALL SID COULD DO WAS RECRUIT. He could not win any more games or championships. He’s in a recruiting period. And he has a darn FINE recruiting class, especially considering all he has to sell recruits was three straight losing seasons led by a coach supposedly on the hotseat. Yet Sid STILL brought them in. And some here still complain. They give him props for nothing. One guy complained that Sid didn’t bring in a top 10 class. True. But by at least one account, he brought in a top 11 class. What else could the man do to get props he deserves? The season is over. But he did WELL in recruiting.”

    A better question would be – what can Sid do to lose your support (if you throw out recruiting.)

    “I’m not talking about everyone or even the majority here. But there are some big players on this blog that would probably admit they just want Sid gone. They are the ones with the agenda.”

    Throw out the names…None of the mods think that way. Noah does – but he’s not a mod. He does have some connections, and if you were wise, you’d reserve disagreeing w/ him on things unless you knew something different. He’s been wrong before – and he’ll be wrong again, but I wouldn’t flippantly dismiss information from him.

    “The evidence of the anti-Sid agenda is in the posts that never once give Sid credit, even when it is due. That spells A-G-E-N-D-A. They want Sid gone. To give Sid an ounce of credit would run opposite to that agenda.”

    BS – you must not have been here when Sid was hired, his first year or his 4-4 start his second year.

    “Sid lost a kid that he thought would be cleared to play. It happens. It is NOT his fault. To blame Sid for this is even more evidence of the anti-Sid agenda on the part of some.”

    Fault has nothing to do w/ it – Sid is ultimately responsible. Sid had options – it’s not like everyone draws names out of hat and he drew LO Brown. He cast his die w/ his kid. Part of his assessment of Brown should have included his academic performance.

    “And to blame Sid for recruiting someone like Brown who could not make it in, while giving TOB a pass for doing the same exact thing, is also hypocrisy. I love TOB as much as anyone. I expect championships, and soon. But if you’re going to rake Sidney over the coals, while barely blinking at TOB when some of his recruits are in the same boat, makes no sense. Well, unless there is an agenda.”

    No, it’s not. Football classes are big – and lots of kids have academic problems. I doubt you noticed, but in football it’s not unusual for several kids not to qualify and show up that the university eventually. OTOH, TOB certainly isn’t depending on these kids this year.
    If one of these kids was supposed to start at corner for us – and it consistently happened…I’d be worried.

    “How many coaches could finish at or near the bottom of a 12 team conference for three straight years, and bring in such a highly rated recruiting class?”

    Sendek did that after finishing there FIVE STRAIGHT YEARS. Does that make him an excellent recruiter and someone we couldn’t afford to lose?

  20. BJD95 07/13/2009 at 1:08 PM #

    ^^ Yes, I do. It’s not dispositive at all (even I’m not that egocentric), but public pressure has helped frame the debate in the past, and can/should do so again. At minimum, public pressure prevents the “year 4 mulligan” argument from taking root.

    No, it’s not worth one more year of bad coaching to get Brown and Harrow enrolled. There will need to be a transition year at some point, regardless. Better to start sooner rather than later. Plus, who’s to say both kids don’t transfer anyway if Lowe is fired after/during their freshman seasons? Who’s to say they don’t de-commit after seeing the writing on the wall, only after it’s too late to ride the Spring 2010 coaching carousel?

    It’s never a good idea to keep a known failure to save a recruiting class. Never. And after this season, I posit that we will likely know if we have a failure on our hands.

  21. whitefang 07/13/2009 at 1:09 PM #

    Some people can’t understand the difference between “hating” Lowe and wanting to replace a poor coach. Sidney Lowe is a State hero because he was once an exceptional point guard on a championship team. He has never, however, been a good basketball coach. He will always be a Wolfpack hero. I wish he was a better coach, but he ain’t. Short of a miracle, I believe he is entering his last season at State. This loss of Brown, while not his “fault”, is his responsibility, and reduces the chance (which I believe was small to begin with) he makes it more than one more year.
    Enough talent might allow him to overcome his coaching deficiencies. Losing talent certainly won’t help. But if the kid is as bad a student as he appears, maybe it is for the best in the long run. I don’t think he would have had enough of an impact to get the team where it needs to be to have a successful season anyway, and I think we are just putting off the inevitable.

  22. PackMan97 07/13/2009 at 1:11 PM #

    Everyone who has spent ten minutes on here knows that there is no more grace period for Sid Lowe. The “we need to be patient and give Sid five years” stuff when he was hired was gone after his first season. Fair enough. You don’t think he can do the job. I get it. But why, why, must every single blasted thread become a “let me explain why Sid stinks and everyone who still has an ounce of patience with him is an enabler” parade? At this point, can’t we just let the season play out?

    —————–

    Actually, most folks I associate with were fairly pleased after Lowe’s first season. The team played will down the stretch, looked like they were having fun and they were playing VERY efficient offense.

    Season 2 hit and some folks weren’t happy, but hey, it’s a learning experience. I think most folks are losing faith because Season 3 saw many of the same problems as Season 2 without anything changing. In addition, Season 4 is already losing any potential it had.

    Repeat mistakes and no hope this season == loss of faith. It’s not hard to understand. Folks are just plum wore out from Robinson -> O’Cain -> Sendek -> Amato -> Fowler and now Lowe. It didn’t take UNC long to realize Buntcake or Dohboy weren’t gonna work out. Why does it take us so long?

  23. Rick 07/13/2009 at 1:14 PM #

    “How many coaches could finish at or near the bottom of a 12 team conference for three straight years, and bring in such a highly rated recruiting class?”

    THIS is your support for Lowe? Talk about damning praise.

  24. Bubba 07/13/2009 at 1:34 PM #

    Thanx BJD

    For me, I’ll decide during the year. Will I continue to see the same problems(Giving up 2 easy layups a game because we dont seem to study the opponents underneath out of bounds plays,look totally lost at the beginning of most 2nd halves,continue to have our smallest player inbound the ball underneath our own basket resulting in turnovers and wasted timeouts,lack of changing defenses etc)only time will tell.

  25. Scooter 07/13/2009 at 1:43 PM #

    Does anyone other than me think it is funny that we are now looking upwards at Clemson’s basketball program? I don’t care about players or coaches or ADs. Anyone who says that we are not PATHETIC in basketball right now is simply ignoring the evidence on the court. The change we needed never came when Lowe was hired. No one is questioning his loyalty or his passion for NCSU, but he has not fulfilled the job requirements for coaching a D-1A basketball team in the state of North Carolina (not just ACC, but also including UNCC and UNCW).

    NCSU basketball has an advanced case of Terribleitis and I’m at the fifth stage of grief — acceptance.

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