Friday Afternoon Discussion Topics

AD & Department Basketball Recruiting General48

It has been slow recently, but there were a few interesting articles/topics to highlight this afternoon.

The first deals with an athletic director “think tank” that for some reason doesn’t include our own Lee Fowler. The topic of this year’s meeting in Durham, NC was athletic budgets in the recession:

DeFilippo said it’s difficult for an individual school to eliminate certain expenditures if its rivals aren’t doing it, too.

“We need to look at it on a national level so there’s a more level playing field,” DeFilippo said. “None of us want to disadvantage our student-athletes or our coaches or our teams. If Stanford is going to lose three administrators, then so does Boston College and everybody else. If Stanford is going to lose a coach, then everybody needs to do it. Stanford shouldn’t be the only school hurt.”

We previously discussed the contract extension of BC’s DeFilippo and compared it to the extension Lee Fowler received several years ago here.

Because news has been so slow, we will point you towards this story about a top combo guard rescinding his commitment to Herb Sendek and Arizona State:

Like many early pledges, Turner cited a desire to be recruited and echoed similar statements that he did it too early. “I never went through the recruiting process and I just wanted to open up to any school to see what other schools are like. It wasn’t schools in particular that I wanted to go to, I just wanted to open it up to see who would come.”

Turner said he’d like to hear from Pac-10 and SEC programs.

”I will consider (Arizona State). I’m open to anybody. If they want to recruit me, they can. I really like (the Sun Devils).”

This was interesting and relevant for several reasons:

1. Sendek struggled during his tenure at NC State to recruit point guards and that appears to be continuing at Arizona St. Not to mention, the lack of quality guards in our program has significantly hindered Coach Lowe’s first three teams.

2. Sidney Lowe also lost an early commitment from pivotal recruit CJ Leslie (as did Boston College as well). CJ also wanted to open things up to other schools. CJ committed to NC State as a freshman in high school.

Which leads us directly to an Update from the Trail by Jim Young of the ACC Sports Journal who conducted a solid interview of Packpride’s James Henderson:

Just how long a coach should be given to turn a program around is really subjective and can vary from person-to-person. I think most on our boards want to see this year’s team show some promise. The rotation could include as many as seven freshmen and sophomores. The expectations won’t be high, but if the team can show some steady improvement over the course of the year then I think most Wolfpack fans would definitely like to give Lowe a fifth season where he could bring in Brown and Harrow who project to be impact players. With that being said, if Lowe isn’t given another year I highly doubt those two would enroll.

Having followed basketball recruiting closely for 20+ years, I don’t remember many examples of kids rescinding verbal commitments. However, there does appear to be a trend for kids committing earlier in the process and then those same kids changing their minds over the next several years before they matriculate to college. It is worth pointing out that if Lorenzo Brown isn’t allowed to enroll at NC State, then his letter of intent is immediately voided. Also, Ryan Harrow won’t be eligible to sign a letter of intent until October. Anyone remember year five of the Sendek era when neither of our top recruits (Julius Hodge & Levi Watkins) signed letters of intent putting us in a situation of either keeping a coach to get two key recruits or firing a coach and losing both players? We could be headed down the exact same path.

AD & Department Basketball Recruiting General

48 Responses to Friday Afternoon Discussion Topics

  1. BJD95 07/17/2009 at 3:08 PM #

    Just like I warned you, the shills (and boy, is Henderson ever a complete shill for Lowe and Fowler) are rolling out the Brown/Harrow blackmail talking points. He also uses the word “blame” a lot in order to avoid the more relevant concept of “responsibility.” There will never be a breaking point for shills like Henderson. He never soured on Amato either, if you will recall.

    Even more hilarious is his standard of “improvement” – he’s OK with the Wolfpack being really, really shitty – as long as we are slightly less shitty in March than we are in December.

    Just laughable stuff. But that’s what you get from media outlets that are wholly dependent on “access” to the powers that be.

  2. Daily Update 07/17/2009 at 3:39 PM #

    BJD95: To be fair, James mentions that those are his opinions of what most people on Packpride’s boards think. Not necessarily his opinion though I don’t think his opinion is much different.

    I think it is also fair to point out that Brown and Harrow could go elsewhere even if we keep Lowe as our head coach. Neither one is obligated to attend NC State at this point. With early commits changing their minds and some kids waiting until the Spring of their senior year to choose a school (Cousins and Wall this year), then we may not know whether or not these kids are officially coming until next year at this time.

    You have to wonder how solid Harrow and Brown are at this point though I have no reason to question their commitments. Even if Lowe is kept for year 5 and those two kids come, then there is still a chance Lowe is fired after year 5. So if Lowe being at NC State for their careers is so important, then logic says that a solid season this year (NIT+) would be important to make sure Brown and Harrow come to NC State (because an NIT+ season combined with these two kids in the backcourt would be a good sign for an NCAA appearance their freshman season which would seem to be a requirement for Lowe to keep his job for year 6). The situation is so similar to year5/year 6 of the Sendek era as we discussed earlier this week.

    Also, I don’t agree with him how he downplayed Shumpert’s impact because he only averaged 10.6 ppg. We may not have any of our guards average in double figure this year and only had 1 last season IIRC.

  3. SaccoV 07/17/2009 at 3:40 PM #

    BJD, also, I think the premise of Henderson’s argument is that the COACH is the sole recruiting tool, not the university. I know this is a debatable point, but I think we can clearly see that other major schools (like our blue-dressed opponents) have had no trouble with or without their “top” coaches keeping players wanting to play there. I don’t say this to give Lowe any leniency in his recruiting efforts. His recruiting ability has been good, but not great (hence Hickson and Tracy Smith). Finally, if Henderson believes that “blackmail” is the only way to recruit, he should probably follow SEC football a little more closely.

  4. choppack1 07/17/2009 at 3:44 PM #

    Hendu is in a bit of an akward position – just take what he says w/ a grain of salt. He has purpose and he has things he needs to say if he’s to keep his access. In other words, he’s the last place I’d go to find an honest assessment of a coach’s performance and expectations.

    But BJD does have a good point on the if we lose “we lose TWO great recruits now.” In other words, somehow, Brown’s failure to qualify now delays judgement on Lowe for another year. It is a bit of bizarro world since, well, he’s Lowe’s recruit.

    It seems like it would be kind of like telling your teacher – I can’t take the test because I’m sick today.

    Why are you sick?

    I did too many shots last night and I’m really hungover.

  5. BJD95 07/17/2009 at 3:46 PM #

    ^^^ He couches it that way, but I don’t buy it for a second. That’s how he feels (or how he knows he’s supposed to feel in order to keep his “access”), and he has ALWAYS tried to shape opinion in favor of the status quo while steadfastly claiming not to do so.

    ^^ James Henderson is a tool of the status quo. The status quo wants it out there that State can only get Brown and Harrow if Lowe gets yet another free pass – and prefer if they don’t have to be the ones saying it. These are the talking points, and Henderson will gladly recite them chapter and verse. Which again is why I strongly felt that a pre-emptive strike from the voices of sanity was necessary in light of Brown’s situation. It’s playing out EXACTLY as I warned.

  6. StateFoxer 07/17/2009 at 3:52 PM #

    If Ryan Harrow can sign a LOI in October, does that mean Lo Brown can as well? Maybe the hostage situation will be a non-issue by the start of conference play. There’s always a chance, right?

  7. Daily Update 07/17/2009 at 3:54 PM #

    BJD95: Do you think we get Harrow or Brown without Lowe?

    Last time around, I know we wouldn’t have gotten Julius Hodge who directly elevated our program the next season. Unfortunately, we missed out on the opportunity to elevate our program further by keeping Sendek after a mediocre year 7 and a collapse in year 8. Point being that keeping Sendek ended up being a good move (by accident for Fowler, not because he knew basketball) in the short-term. He just dropped the ball the rest of Sendek’s tenure failing to capitalize on a program changing player like Julius Hodge.

    Keeping Brown and Harrow is important IMO as far as turning the program around quickly (i.e. getting back to the NCAA tournament). It isn’t impossible without them, but it is easier with them. So the question then becomes is there any coach out there that we can hire that could convince both of these kids (or similarly talented replacement recruits) to come to NC State in 2010 class? I went through this same brainstorming scenario with Sendek/Hodge countless times.

    I don’t think there is a clear answer, solution or strategy. The scary part of this whole situation is that Lee Fowler is still in place as our Athletic Director. That makes me think that the chances of Lowe getting a year 5 are fairly decent because we any other university would already be in the process of getting a new AD in place to handle a potential crucial transition 9 months from now. Essentially, NC State isn’t prepared and we don’t seem to be doing anything proactive to address an open head coaching position. Typical of how we do things…so we could easily still have Fowler as AD to lead us through any transition next year. Last time around he handled the search horribly and we lost 3 of 4 players committed to NC State. If Fowler is still AD, then I would probably support taking my chances with Lowe, Brown and Harrow than allow Fowler to do more damage to the program.

  8. Daily Update 07/17/2009 at 3:55 PM #

    Statefoxer: Yes, both can sign. What kind of message does it send if they don’t?

  9. BJD95 07/17/2009 at 4:17 PM #

    I can assure you that they won’t sign LOIs in October. Lowe and Fowler WANT them to be in a blackmail position, because they want NO performance standard for the 2009-10 season.

    Considering that a certain someone involved in all the GA kids’ recruitment has ties to Lowe and none to State, sure I think the blackmail strategy involves a real threat. But should we really make personnel decisions based on crap like that?

    Plus, there will always be a transition when a coaching change is made, with the immediate recruiting class being an uncertainty. If we hire a good basketball coach (which we can and should do once Fowler is no longer the AD), then I have no doubt about his ability to land two Top 50 guards. That’s not a “once in a lifetime” proposition for a school with the inherent advantages of NC State.

  10. Daily Update 07/17/2009 at 4:38 PM #

    That is a big “if” with Fowler as AD. As long as he is AD, then IMO the risks of firing Lowe might be greater than keeping him, Brown and Harrow. Fowler has to be gone first.

  11. old13 07/17/2009 at 4:45 PM #

    The above discussion exemplifies why, in spite of the obvious competence of TOB and maybe Kelly Harper, I am quickly losing interest in all things Wolfpack athletics (and NCSU in general, for that matter.) I’ve written to Dr. Woodward (and received an essentially non-committal political response trying to get my monetary support back) about the state of Wolfpack athletics and feel totally ignored. Tell me why I still surf the Wolfpack sites!

    NCSU BSME 1968

  12. CaptainCraptacular 07/17/2009 at 4:46 PM #

    In 2002 Tampa Bay gave up a kings ransom in draft picks to get Chucky to come coach. All he wound up doing was leading them to their one and only super bowl win. Bad analogy on many levels but I ask myself, would I give up a couple draft picks, Brown and Harrow, for a coach that would be able to lead State deep into the NCAAT and back to the promised land in the not so distant future. Heck yea I would, as long as the replacement was a proven winner.

    By the way, who is this certain someone in regards to Ga recruiting efforts? I’m really out of the loop.

  13. imawolf 07/17/2009 at 4:52 PM #

    We need to look at it on a national level so there’s a more level playing field,” DeFilippo said. “None of us want to disadvantage our student-athletes or our coaches or our teams. If Stanford is going to lose three administrators, then so does Boston College and everybody else. If Stanford is going to lose a coach, then everybody needs to do it. Stanford shouldn’t be the only school hurt.”

    This statement is Ludicrous. SMACKS of socialism. If the Wolfpack Nation Continues To Support, or should any other school continue to garner support, then why should we or they be forced to reduce to the same level as say a Stanford?

  14. sautz 07/17/2009 at 7:11 PM #

    Crystal ball time:
    – This year, in a down ACC, we lose 9 to 11 ACC games. This is enough to give Fowler enough of his “improvement” to say everything is peachy and no one is under any pressure.
    – The following year Harrow and Leslie get here and we are better. We should even make the NIT. Fowler is ecstatic that we are reaching HWSNBN-like awesomeness and Lowe gets a 4 yr extension.
    – Some players begin to regress, as most of last years seniors did, and “CHEMISTRY PROBLEMS THAT NO COACH COULD EVER SOLVE EVER” crop up again demonstrating that Lowe can’t coach and can lose a team in a heartbeat. We lose another 9-12 ACC games but Fowler points to the previous year’s success as the reason to keep Lowe
    – The rest plays out just like HWSNBN did, except for the lucky NCAA appearances.

  15. GAWolf 07/17/2009 at 7:29 PM #

    I guess the one thing that hasn’t been mentioned that is an important part of recent Wolfpack athletics history relavant to this discussion is the simple truth to anyone with an iota of sense to know that Fowler has ZERO to do with our hire of TOB. If Fowler stays but stays impotent by the true powers that be…or at least they can lock him in a closet…then it goes to reason a decent hire could be made with him just the same as without him.

  16. wolfonthehill 07/18/2009 at 7:39 AM #

    Exactly why is it a foregone conclusion that you lose recruits when you change coaches? It’s entirely possible that, if you don’t completely bungle the coaching search (aka, you don’t have a search – you instead have a plan in place before letting your coach go), you retain your recruits and can potentially even IMPROVE your current/subsequent class.

    Which is why it all comes to Fowler. He would have no such plan… we would go through the Groundhog Day of another aimless search that lasts FAR longer than it possibly should, killing any chance of recruits sticking with us.

    And yep – I agree that he’s the reason why a lot of us are losing our interest in all things Wolfpack. When there’s no reason to hope, you just stop caring.

  17. wolfonthehill 07/18/2009 at 7:39 AM #

    PS – Thank you, TOB, for the one giant bright spot we have. Please never retire. 😉

  18. Noah 07/18/2009 at 8:08 AM #

    By the way, who is this certain someone in regards to Ga recruiting efforts?

    A former NBA player turned street agent.

    I pretty much feel the way Old13 feels. Why should I give two sh**s about this athletic program?

    You guys know that Lee Fowler is NEVER….EVER….everevereverever getting fired, right? Anyone with the ability to move on Fowler would sooner try to mediate an Alien/Predator death match than make a move on Fowler.

    Lee Fowler is protected by a single rich donor. We saw what happened when someone tried to do this before. We had our own “Night of the Long Knives” massacre. These people do not believe they are acting for the good of the university. They do not CARE about the university. They are only interested in helping themselves and making sure they can continue to dine and golf on YOUR money. As donations dry up, that just makes Fowler’s bodyman that much more important.

    When Tom O’Brien retires, the vacancy will be filled in about thirty seconds and NCSU’s descent will be complete.

    The good news is that nothing is eternal. Eventually, Lee Fowler will die. Sidney Lowe will die. And the University will eventually crumble to dust and be replaced by the various stages of a hardwood forest…and the sun will burn out and become a red giant and then a planetary nebula. So…ya know…only about five billion years to go.

  19. Sw0rdf1sh 07/18/2009 at 8:17 AM #

    Sid is going nowhere, they sign in October, and come in together….probably luring another 4/5 star recruit in with them.

    Even if they sign the LOI, if the SID is fired scenario goes down, they would probably look to get out of it. This is not going down.

    Brown and Harrow come in, angelic singing rains down from the sky, the 3rd coming of the Wolfpack begins.

  20. Dogbreath 07/18/2009 at 8:31 AM #

    I still hold tight to the futile hope that, after winning the Wolfpacks’s second consecutive ACC title in 2010, Tom O’Brien hands the reigns of the football program to Dana Bible, and steps into the vacated AD role.

  21. BJD95 07/18/2009 at 10:56 AM #

    I am almost certain that Bible retires when TOB does. He won’t be the next head coach.

    For the record the big donor noah references is NOT Wendell Murphy. I know that’s the name most people think of when they hear “big donor” – and he’s not part of the problem here. Just FYI.

  22. BJD95 07/18/2009 at 11:01 AM #

    Fortunately, I only have one year left on my LTR payments. I suppose I will keep buying tickets after TOB retires, as long as I can sell them on craigslist. When that well runs dry, I will likely give my LTRs up and tell NC State to go pound sand. I will watch the games and blog here until I die, but I can’t fathom giving this bunch of shysters one more dime after our last ray of hope (O’Brien) is gone.

  23. CaptainCraptacular 07/18/2009 at 11:05 AM #

    then why should we or they be forced to reduce to the same level as say a Stanford?

    Boy if we could “stoop” to Stanfords level in pretty much anything I think we’d all be pretty happy. Stanfords athletic endowment alone is as big as our school endowment. You don’t win the directors cup 15 years running without serious money.

  24. Dr. BadgerPack 07/18/2009 at 11:46 AM #

    Noah,

    I don’t like everything in your post… but I give credit where it is due… that “alien/predator” comment was classic stuff!

  25. bradleyb123 07/18/2009 at 11:49 AM #

    ^ “Having followed basketball recruiting closely for 20+ years, I don’t remember many examples of kids rescinding verbal commitments.”

    When Herb ditched us for Arizona State, didn’t we lose all but one of his commitments?

    If we get to the point where Sid needs to go, we can’t worry about the commitments we might lose (although I’d sure hate to risk losing Lo Brown and Ryan Harrow). I think that’s one of the points you’re making, and I agree. We don’t keep a horrible coach just because we might lose commitments. In theory, the next coach would probably bring some commitments with him, so we probably break even. But I think it’s a safe bet to expect to lose commitments if we fire Sidney.

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