Cheap Seats Football Retrospective: Part II, 2000-06

This is Part II of a five-part series that is by no means intended to be authoritative. Rather, it’s nothing more than an incomplete, inconclusive, sometimes erroneous, while always biased retrospective of recent State football history. Part of this was based on nothing more than my attempt to answer the question so many of us are left asking year after year: How did we get here?

1999 NC State Football Helmet

The only known picture from LRM's days in the student section, circa 2001

Part I: The 90s

Part II: Chuck
2000 HelmetChuck Amato arrived at State in early January 2000 already well-known to State fans; to some, from his days leading State’s White Shoes Defense in 1967, but to all of us, as the chief assistant under Bobby Bowden’s national powerhouse at Florida State — two national titles (1993 & 1999) and eight ACC titles (1992-99) — for 19 years. The titles mattered, but he was also a likeable guy whose unique style was in stark contrast to that of his predecessor’s. This desperate fan base was immediately inspired by him, if for no other reason than we wanted to believe in him. The importance of this cannot be understated, because the perception of promise alone was enough for the Wolfpack Club and athletic department to roll out its brilliantly-designed Lifetime Rights (more like Racket), the plan linked to season tickets that would ensure long-term financial commitments from the fans based on expected future value (I’m seven years into mine and still waiting).

Amato got the immediate financial commitment from us and, more importantly, he got Philip Rivers. In his debut in 2000, Amato led State to a 4-0 start and our first victory over Carolina since 1992, then eventually led an overachieving team to an 8-4 record and a come-from-behind MicronPC Bowl victory over Minnesota. Then in 2001, he became the first ACC coach to win in Tallahassee since Florida State had joined the conference in 1992, and for the first time in a decade, State was going to a bowl in consecutive seasons (although we lost to Antonio Bryant and Pittsburgh 34-19 in the Tangerine Bowl the day after I graduated).

Through two seasons, most of us were pleased with the progress of a very young team, especially considering the magnitude of the recruiting inroads Amato had made in Florida — we were landing athletes that were capable of being playmakers at multiple positions. For the first time since 1994, many of us believed there was something brewing, evidenced by the influx of new LTRs and season ticket sales.

By October 2002, it appeared Amato had finally delivered on his seemingly far-fetched rhetoric. After a 38-6 ESPN Thursday-night romp at Clemson, we were 9-0 and ranked eighth by the AP. Driving back home up I-85 after the game late that night, my buddy Worm and I were talking Fiesta Bowl, or as a consolation, the Orange Bowl as ACC champions. But like so many times before (and since), those plans proved to be a bit premature. Amato, like so many before him (but hopefully not after him), was unable to escape that miscreant destiny that keeps us State fans disdainfully, tragically grounded.

The following weekend in Raleigh, on a “picturesque” North Carolina November evening, State was in control, leading Georgia Tech 17-9 with 13:02 to play. To that point, our defense had manhandled Tech, highlighted by two different defensive stands inside the three that forced the Yellow Jackets to settle for two field goals. Alas, as the sun slipped behind those tall North Carolina pines west of Carter-Finley (but not quite 25 miles west, where most pines grow), an autumn chill filled the air, and upon it Tech rallied for 15 unanswered and then stopped State on three different drives in the fourth quarter to preserve the 24-17 victory and subsequently defeat any notion we had of our first national championship. Consecutive losses at Maryland and Virginia followed, which quickly eliminated any hopes of our first ACC title since 1979. There would be no trip to Miami for the New Year.

However, we salvaged the best season of our long football history with a 17-7 home victory over Florida State in the season finale. Along with the well-documented propensity for State fans to travel en masse to bowl games, the merit of our 10 wins rightfully earned us a berth to the Gator Bowl. Few pundits gave 17th-ranked State much of a fighting chance over 12th-ranked Notre Dame that New Year’s Day 2003, but Thunder Dan led a physical State defense that knocked both quarterback Carlyle Holiday and tight end Gary Godsey out of the game in the first quarter, and then intercepted backup Pat Dillingham three times while holding the Irish to only 286 total yards. Meanwhile, Rivers and Jerricho Cotchery connected 10 times for 127 yards and a touchdown. Even after the disheartening November meltdown, 2002 had appeared to be the breakout season for both Amato and the program.

Rivers’ return for his senior season fueled our intense optimism and soaring expectations for 2003, which was set up to be epic: State had both a legitimate Heisman contender and the chance to showcase him on national television against the defending National Champions, which would also serve as the game that would catapult us officially into the national championship hunt. Instead, we stumbled early with consecutive losses in Winston-Salem and then in that nationally-televised matchup in Columbus, which ended any national championship aspirations by mid-September. Hopes for a conference championship quickly faded over the next few weeks after dispiriting losses in Atlanta and then in Tallahassee. A season-ending home loss to Maryland after blowing a two-touchdown lead in the fourth quarter left us at 7-5, which was only good enough for another Tangerine Bowl bid, where Rivers led us past a mismatched Kansas 56-26. Like O’Cain after 1994, Amato failed to capitalize on the promise of 2002 and build any sustained success.

In 2003, the weak defense had been largely to blame for the five losses, while in 2004, it would be quite the opposite. The plan to replace Rivers with Jay Davis – and then replace Davis with Marcus Stone a couple years later – had always seemed firm and promising on paper. But in reality, it went horribly, terribly awry.

In retrospect, 2004 was the season where most of us realized anyone would look good coaching Philip Rivers. It was a season that harked back upon the decade prior: we won a game we shouldn’t have won, when State’s #1-ranked defense overwhelmed Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, handing the Hokies their only conference loss in their Sugar Bowl season; and we lost both a game we shouldn’t have lost and lost to Carolina in the same game, after referee Jim Knight disapproved of linesman Rick Page’s call and took T.A. McLendon’s winning touchdown off the scoreboard (something that can only happen to State, and only in Chapel Hill), and then on the next play after the reversal, T.A. tried to go over the top but instead fumbled away the “victory.” State finished at 5-6, and for the first time under Amato, was left out of the bowl picture.

In 2005, State salvaged an otherwise bland and disappointing season by winning four of its last five games and then defeated South Florida 14-0 in a listless Meineke Car Care Bowl (if you don’t remember much about that game, it’s probably because you missed all of the scoring while you were standing in line with me at Will Call through the entire first quarter). Nevertheless, Amato’s seat was hot. He usually tried to say all the right things, but that same rhetoric that had initially endeared us to him had begun to fall on deaf ears. He was proving to be all hat and no cattle; he lacked substance and many of us grew increasingly tired of his shtick, especially those of us that required at least some accountability.

The irony: in 2002 many of us were worried that Amato would leave us to replace Bobby Bowden at Florida State, but by 2006, many of us were hoping that he would.

This much is undeniable: State fans are a tough crowd, and by the end, he certainly wasn’t helping his cause. He was only 3-3 against Carolina, and had lost two straight in the series going into 2006, a season that quickly deteriorated into an absolute catastrophe that rivaled State basketball’s 0-for-February in 2000. He was unable to overcome early season losses at home to Akron – after which he deferred blame by calling Akron’s admissions of partial qualifiers an unfair advantage – and then a week later in Hattiesburg to Southern Mississippi. The season finally, mercifully, ended at 3-9, after seven consecutive losses. As it turned out, Amato’s tenure ingloriously ended in 2006 the exact same way as his predecessor’s in 1999, with losses on the road to Carolina and East Carolina.

After nearly 15 years of the newfound emphasis on the football program, we finally had the unrivaled state-of-the art facilities we’d been told for years we needed to compete and aspire to national prominence. What we needed in 2007 was someone that could build an actual foundation, but more importantly, someone that could win in Raleigh without Philip Rivers.

That would be no small feat.

About LRM

Charter member of the Lunatic Fringe and a fan, loyal to a fault.

Chuck Amato Fans Flashback NCS Football Tradition

50 Responses to Cheap Seats Football Retrospective: Part II, 2000-06

  1. CStanley 07/29/2009 at 12:26 PM #

    “He’s the study mouse who keeps grabbing the electrified cheese until his brain turns to Jello.”

    Damn, that was funny.

    Completely agree with most of what’s been said regarding Chuck and his abilities to lead this program, so I won’t repeat the reasons why he ultimately failed here. He just was not made to be head coach. I think his experiences as head coach have also hurt him with respect to going back to FSU as an assistant…not sure why he thought that was going to work out?

    He did do a lot of great things and, in many critical ways, we’re a better program because of him. His recruiting set us back tremendously, however, and that is the only lingering resentment I hold towards him.

    2002 was a great season with a ton of great memories. I still can recall just about every game and every little detail. I still agonize over that November, however. I think some folks don’t realize just how damn close we were to a title that year. I still think things would have eventually fallen apart as they did in the following seasons, but it would have been nice to claim a trophy that year, particularly with the talented teams in our league (Maryland, UVA & FSU).

    I think a lot of the problems that season were just bad breaks. Look at Wake’s 2006 title season. You can’t tell me the 2002 NC State team was not better than that ’06 Wake team. But all the little things that went right for Wake went wrong for us that year. Particularly in the 3 game November slide. You’ve got to have some luck, and we didn’t get much against GT, Maryland or UVA. All three games were lost because of a handful of plays (I can almost name them on one hand).

    I think the turning point in Amato’s tenure was the ’04 UNC game. We had experienced disappointment and bad luck in the previous two seasons, but you just had to feel like it just wasn’t going to work out with Chuck after that one. It had finally gone beyond just bad breaks.

  2. CaptainCraptacular 07/29/2009 at 12:40 PM #

    My biggest mind numbing bang my head against the wall frustration with Chuck and the football team during 04 and 05 (outside of Mazzone in 04) was the lining up offside boneheadedness. I posted somewhere during that stretch: dear whomever it may concern in the A.D. I’m available and willing to offer my services free of charge to stand on the sideline at the line of scrimmage every play of every game with a giant obnoxious blinking message board that will alert the line with a subtle message that “HEY DUMBASSES YOU ARE LINED UP OFFSIDES!!!!” Sadly, I was not taken up on my offer.

    This was the easiest problem in the universe to fix and it took more than 2 years to do so.

  3. VaWolf82 07/29/2009 at 12:47 PM #

    My point is that the number of stars beside a HS players name does not always equate to college gridiron success.

    No offense taken, but that’s not what you said. You said that Chuck and BD recruit based on stars from the recruiting services. Chuck brought in a number of low-ranked players that were key contributers to State. BD brought in the players that won a NC for Coker.

    While there have been articles written about Larry Coker and Jeff Bowden suggesting that they used the recruiting services instead of personal observation….there is no evidence that either Chuck or BD use that approach.

  4. ppack3 07/29/2009 at 1:00 PM #

    Va. – Point taken, good info.

  5. Master 07/29/2009 at 2:21 PM #

    “after which he deferred blame by calling Akron’s admissions of partial qualifiers an unfair advantage”

    That, to me, is a perfect example of the negative spin that attached itself to everything Chuck said and did. Chuck was actually paying a compliment to the quality of players on Akron’s squad. A lot of those kids had scholarship offers to D1 schools (the running back who Chuck was talking about) but settled at Akron as a result of being only partial qualifiers. To think otherwise is to believe Chuck thought they were good because they were dumb.

    I believe Chuck should be remembered as a great promoter who put NCSU back on the map as a quality program worthy of air time on a national basis. He also made sure we had 1st rate facilities thru those promotional skills. Calling it hype is simply the pejorative term for salesmanship. His failure was creating a belief by many that we would become a dominate force before our time. I’m not disappointed that he finally left and I am happy with TOB. Long live Chuck.

  6. MatSci94 07/29/2009 at 2:38 PM #

    and who could forget

    “Happy Thanksgiving!”

  7. PackerInRussia 07/29/2009 at 3:02 PM #

    “It was a Thursday night game in 2005. We were getting crushed by Clemson, and during a time out one of Chuck’s many commercials appeared an the Jumbotron.”

    Is that the same game where someone threw a flag in front of Chuck during the Walk of Champions which was also captured on ESPN? That was pretty bad/funny.

    It was crazy how many teams were undefeated that year they were 9-0. Usually, if you’re 9-0 and in a major conference, you’re going to be ranked a lot higher than 8th. Not that 8th isn’t high and I’d take it any day, but point being that there were a lot of teams undefeated pretty late in the season.
    That 3-game losing streak was very disheartening. I remember when I worked at the YMCA, we took our kids to the Murphy Center and watched the video they show which was pretty cool to watch. It was 24-style except the game they hired the crew to film was the GT game that we lost that year. Of course it didn’t show them losing; they used film of the team and fans celebrating after a win from another game. I remember thinking that was kind of funny.
    The point has been made several times about how there never seemed to be many breaks. I feel the same way. Just a few breaks here and there could have made a huge difference. Is that just a biased, clouded perception? Does every fan of every team feel the same way? Or is it really an NC State thing?

  8. BJD95 07/29/2009 at 3:44 PM #

    Make the sample size large enough, and the “breaks” almost always even out. Even in that 11-3 season (where 3 losses felt like we were at least a bit snakebit), we won 2 games that were a razor’s edge away from being losses.

    Against Texas Tech, the Red Raiders very narrowly missed a 40-yard FG that would have won the game in regulation. That’s a kick the kid would make at least 3 times out of 4. Against Duke, the Devils QB missed a wide open WR in the seam after recovering a late onside kick. That play would have put the Devils inside our 30 with 15-20 seconds left, and their kicker had already made 2 FGs in the 45-50 yard range earlier in the game.

    So, when you look at going 0-3 in tight games against GT, UVA, and Maryland, it looks terribly unlucky. But look at going 2-3 against TT, Duke, GT, UVA, and Maryland – it doesn’t look so bad.

  9. Noah 07/29/2009 at 3:49 PM #

    Every school uses a recruiting service. I don’t believe any of them use Rivals or Scout.

    Amato didn’t even know how to use the internet.

  10. GAWolf 07/29/2009 at 3:49 PM #

    I haven’t read all of the comments, but one of Amato’s bigger problems toward the end of his tenure… and this could be more a manifestation of other problems rather than a problem itself… was that he completely alienated the high school coaches. I’ve heard some first hand horror stories about their efforts to communicate with him.

  11. choppack1 07/29/2009 at 4:10 PM #

    BJD – I’m with you…It’s not like we lost those 3 games on hail mary’s…I think what any objective observer could take away from the Amato era is that he could secure some very talented individuals, and they’d usually play w/ heart – but they’d make so many mistakes, victory was never a given a sqaud that was average or above.

  12. Noah 07/29/2009 at 4:38 PM #

    GAWolf – that was a symptom of a larger problem. Amato alienated a lot of people. Players, coaches, fans, boosters…

  13. 61Packer 07/29/2009 at 5:46 PM #

    Florida State, when Amato was there, was one of the nation’s most-penalized teams, but they were almost always able to offset this with top-tier talent and speed. When Amato came here, “flag football” followed him, and without the FSU-level of talent to make up for all those lost yards, CTC’s teams shot themselves in the foot time and again with stupid penalties.

    So far, the total lack of discipline we were used to under Amato is gone. Good riddance!

  14. highstick 07/29/2009 at 5:59 PM #

    This is totally off topic, but Butch Davis is a pure chicken!! But, I’d say the battle for supremacy is between NC State and the Gamecocks, if there is one!

    The next battle for football supremacy in the Carolinas looks like it will be put on hold for a couple of years.

    South Carolina athletics director Eric Hyman will allow North Carolina out of its 2010 game in Columbia, but only if the Tar Heels agree to make up the game in the “very near future” and a suitable replacement is found for next year’s schedule.

    ESPN officials contacted Hyman several months ago to see if he would be amenable to letting North Carolina out of the second game of its home-and-home deal with USC so the Tar Heels and LSU could meet in the Georgia Dome the opening weekend of the 2010 season.

    In exchange, ESPN told Hyman it would televise the Gamecocks’ 2010 opener on Thursday night as the first game of the season against a team the network would line up. Hyman would not identify possible opponents, but said ESPN has a stake in making it an attractive TV matchup.

    Hyman said he was willing to work with ESPN, which is beginning the first year of its unprecedented, 15-year deal with SEC worth $2.25 billion.

    “We’ve got to do things to help ESPN be successful, and sometimes there are minimal sacrifices,” Hyman said Tuesday. “But I would not reschedule the (North Carolina) game in 2030.”

    Hyman, who played football at North Carolina, was presented the game ball by Steve Spurrier after the Gamecocks’ 21-15 win at Chapel Hill in 2007. He made it clear that he wants to be at Williams-Brice Stadium when the Tar Heels return the game.

    “The North Carolina game, it was special to me,” Hyman said. “I wouldn’t do this unless North Carolina was going to come back again.”

    Under the terms of the contract, North Carolina would owe USC a $750,000 buyout if it does not schedule a makeup game. The Tar Heels lead the all-time series 34-17-4.

    Though nothing has been finalized, Hyman views the situation as a “win-win” for the Gamecocks, who get a televised Thursday night home game next season and a future home date with the Tar Heels. USC’s Sept. 3 game at N.C. State will mark the fourth time in five years under Spurrier the Gamecocks have opened the season on a Thursday night on ESPN.

    In addition, Hyman said USC plans to arrange the 2010 schedule so the Gamecocks have an open date in the middle of the season rather than prior to the Clemson game. The only time USC has beaten Clemson under Spurrier was 2006 when the Gamecocks handled Middle Tennessee 52-7 a week before traveling to Death Valley.

    USC has had an open date the week before Clemson each of the past two seasons.

    Meanwhile, officials hope to pit North Carolina against LSU in the third edition of the Chick-fil-A Kickoff game in Atlanta that sold out its first two matchups – Clemson-Alabama last year and Alabama-Virginia Tech on Sept. 5.

    Hyman said he has spoken with Chick-fil-A organizers about the Gamecocks playing in the event, but would consider it only in a year when USC has an eight-game home schedule because he is reluctant to give up the revenues of a home game.

  15. Wufpacker 07/29/2009 at 7:03 PM #

    Someone earlier mentioned the frustration of the repeated penalities for lining up offsides, and I agree. But honestly, my all-time frustration in this era came from the repeated 15 yard personal fouls. In fact, it got so that any time the other team’s ballcarrier was obviously going to run out of bounds I would cringe, expecting the late hit and the 15 yard penalty.

    Those, along with all the other mental errors (including the lining up offsides) and combined with the poor clock/game management was something that we probably could have used to predict the final outcome of Chuck’s tenure.

    And while the Clemson game in ’05 might have been the beginning of the end, I think the Akron game was pretty much the end. That was when we knew that he couldn’t/wouldn’t be able to get out of his own way and that the talent level he was able to bring in was not going to overcome the deficiencies in his coaching.

    The final 7 games, all losses, pretty much proved it. If not for the 2 lucky wins against BC and FSU we would have posted a 1-10 that season, with the only win being the opener against App.

    EDIT – just to correct my math error…without the BC and FSU wins we would have been 1-11. Even with those wins we were only 2-9 against D I-A (now FBS) teams.

  16. packalum44 07/29/2009 at 7:20 PM #

    No one has even mentioned the Ohio State games!

    LRM Note: Bear with me until Part III, then you’ll have a chance to talk tOSU.

  17. 61Packer 07/29/2009 at 8:26 PM #

    Just when I thought the pain was finally gone, packalum44 gives us a dose of OSU. LOL! But then, every time we played Wake Forest, a poor man’s OSU, we’d do the same things over and over, and lose by a few points on a FG or dumb play to a team no better than us except for superior coaching.

  18. Wufpacker 07/29/2009 at 8:35 PM #

    ^^I think following the 11-3 “oh so close” the year before, most folks at the time thought that the game in Columbus was further proof we were headed the right direction. They chose not to remember the Wake loss the week prior.

    The stats from that game are pretty interesting as well. We had 3 turnovers, they had 5. We had 46 penalty yards, they had 129. We had 336 total offense (315 passing), they had 317 (273 passing). Their leading rusher was Krenzel (QB) with 37 yds. Ours was McClendon with only 32. Rivers is listed with -49 yds rushing, although he is only listed as having been sacked 3 times for a loss of 17 yds. Time of possession was about as even as possible 30:17 to 29:43 in their favor. And this one really floored me…First downs…15 for them, 28 for us.

    All in all I would have guessed from the stats that we had won, especially after seeing the difference in first downs. And the penalty yardage surprised me, not your expected NCState-under-Amato penalty yardage. The high number for them surprised me a bit too.

    The following year, again we topped them in the stats column except for penalty yards (penalty yardage was more the norm this game…121-45…you can guess who had the 121) and turnovers (5-1 with us on the wrong end). Besides turnovers and penalties, the big difference in this game was Mike Nugent, OSU’s Kicker, who proved this day he deserved the first team AA status he would receive at the end of the year. He hit 5, including 46, 47 and 50 yarders. State defense held OSU to 137 total yards, but Nugent made it such that it didn’t matter…if they got inside the 30 he nailed it. That, combined with the turnover difference was pretty much the game (we still only lost by a touchdown+2).

    But, like the year before, I think the fact that we stayed close was still, at least at that point, viewed as evidence that Chuck had us playing with the big boys. (This was before OSU dropped consecutive games against Northwestern, Wisconsin and Iowa and ultimately ended the season unranked).

  19. agentorange 07/29/2009 at 10:52 PM #

    Chuck did bring excitement. The College Gameday crew from ESPN was at CF for the Miami game. At the time, it was a record crowd for the telecasts on Friday and Saturday. I don’t think they’ve even considered coming back since Chuck left. As for the game, the crowd was in an absolute frenzy at kickoff, but then Devon Hester ran it back for a touchdown. Miami went on to win the game.

    LRM Note: Let’s be completely honest here, Gameday had no other options other than to broadcast from Bristol that weekend, that’s why they were here. It was no doubt a blast out there (and I got to meet Erin Andrews that Friday evening — I knew her from Braves’ telecasts, actually) and it was good publicity for us, but that wasn’t a “big” game by any means, just the best option on an otherwise dull weekend. And the reason they haven’t been back is because State hasn’t played a “big” game since. It has nothing to do with Chuck being gone.

  20. ryebread 07/29/2009 at 11:32 PM #

    choppack: Sorry, but I think that Stone “saved” that game for State that day. Yes, that first drive was a thing of beauty and I felt like we had a real OC for the first time since Galbraith, but Stone came in after Davis faltered and managed the game for us for a win.
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores104/104269/20040925NCAAFVATECH—-0nr.htm

    Master: Sorry, but Amato DID claim that Akron won because of partial qualifiers. Check out the quotes: http://media.www.theeastcarolinian.com/media/storage/paper915/news/2006/09/13/Sports/Opinion.Amato.Needs.To.Pipe.Down-2268637.shtml
    This isn’t some spin to slam Amato. At this point he was grasping at straws and talking about fannies in his post game press conferences. It was flat out ugly on all parts.

    I was in grad school when we hired Chuck. Like I said in the last thread, I couldn’t understand why we fired the last coach who was an unproven assistant and then went with ANOTHER unproven assistant when we hired him. I was really hoping that the FSU connection would be key and like the big money donors who built the stadium, really wanted to believe the hype. It wasn’t like Chuck was the featured assistant for FSU either — that was Mickey Andrews.

    Chuck did some good things and some bad things during his time at NC State. Here’s what I personally see as his pros and cons:
    -> Pros:
    – The man could generate hype.
    – The man could get the money flowing.
    – The man initially hired a fantastic staff — I’d argue the best ever at NC State.
    – The man rode Rivers to a lot of wins.
    – The man could coach a defense. More often than note, we were very good defensively.
    – The man could really, really recruit defensive players.
    – The man had a lot of come from behind victories.
    – The man made NC State football relative on a national scene.
    – The man loved NC State.
    – The man kept the players out of the police blotter.
    – The Gator bowl season was the best I’ve personally witnessed at NC State.
    For all of these pros, I thank him.

    -> Cons:
    – The man could not retain a staff.
    – The man could not recruit offensive players.
    – The man refused to recruit the OL (which I personally think was his downfall). We didn’t have a legitimate OL after O’Cain’s players left the team.
    – The man could not recruit a QB. Wilson was the first decent QB that Amato actually recruited.
    – The man couldn’t keep the big money boosters happy.
    – The man couldn’t motivate TA.
    – The man made baffling in game calls.
    – The man was very, very, very bad with the media.

    I personally felt like the wheels came off the track about the time we hired Mazzone. Some of my friends who went to Auburn pitied me when we hired him, and I came to understand why. We massively underachieved Rivers’ senior year. Granted that was due to the defense more than the offense, but one could see the signs that the team wasn’t on the same page. Losing 5 games with the best player in school history at the most important spot on the roster was inexcusable.

    I really started doubting Amato @ UNC. BJD cited the 3rd and 3 penalty call. I was in the UNC student session in that end zone going ballistic when they tossed that TD in. Make no mistake — they burned us on that play — and it was incredibly easy. What people are forgetting about that game is the confusion on the NC State sidelines after the removed TD call at the end. There was a considerable amount of time while the refs were sorting out that call. A competent coach would have had his team huddled and a contingency play called. Instead, Chuck screamed at the refs and the players watched. Then once the TD came off the board, the play clock started ticking and we had to rush a play in (TA over the top). It was as predictable as the tide. Walking out of that game to obscenities being screamed at me by UNC fans, I knew that Chuck wasn’t the guy.

    All doubt by all other parties was removed against Akron. I’m sorry, but when you lose at home to a MAC team giving up a last minute drive that marched the length of the field, and then go around and embarrass the fan base (see above) you should be immediately fired. IMHO, Chuck was a dead man walking from that point on. I was glad we lost to UNC and ECU because that mercifully ended it. No NC State football coach in my memory has lost to ECU and UNC in the same season and lived to tell about it.

  21. Classof89 07/30/2009 at 9:11 AM #

    VaWolf82 said

    “I vehemently disagree. Jay Davis got plenty of playing time after Rivers left. If he didn’t improve with playing time as a RS-JR/SR, then why would anyone think that earlier playing time would have had some miraculous effect?”

    But I’m not talking about playing time AFTER Rivers left, I’m talking about playing time while Rivers was still here. If they’d gotten Davis some real minutes in some real game situations with the first team offense, they would have known before 2004 that Davis wasn’t going to cut it, and then would have had time to develop plan B. Now, this particular personnel snafu might of just been the symptom of some of the things others have mentioned (staff turnover–particularly at the OC slot, etc.) but nothing demonstrated Chuckles’ shortcomings better than the dramatic falloff in results after Rivers left, and the major component of that falloff, IMO, was the lack of production at QB from 2004 all the way until Wilson came into his own last year.

  22. choppack1 07/30/2009 at 9:45 AM #

    rye – You’re getting your years mixed up.

    Davis started both games. In 2004, Stone replaced him after Davis threw an INT – and we did win AT VaTech.

    However, the year in question, was for the game in Raleigh in 2005. That year Davis started, threw for 300+ yards, but 2 INTs – and we lost.

  23. tcthdi-tgsf-twhwtnc 07/30/2009 at 11:12 AM #

    “But when Amato took the job – the groundwork was laid, the tailgating “culture” had taken place – he added just the right amount to the mix to really explode the atmosphere.”

    I love how history starts with each of our own experience. In my view the tailgating culture was in place when I was a kid in the 70’s going to the games with the family. Tailgating in the old grass fields and hoping to be able to get out of the lot if it rained during the game- Rear wheel drive doesn’t do all that great in the mud.

  24. VaWolf82 07/30/2009 at 5:01 PM #

    If they’d gotten Davis some real minutes in some real game situations with the first team offense, they would have known before 2004 that Davis wasn’t going to cut it, and then would have had time to develop plan B.

    Coaches shouldn’t need to see a player in a game before they figure out whether or not they can play. MOST coaches figure that stuff out in practice.

    What makes you think that they didn’t have a plan B? Clearly Marcus Stone was Plan B…..there simply wasn’t any other choice. Seeing Davis play earlier doesn’t help anything when your other QBs aren’t any better.

    The problem was NOT Davis’s playing time while Rivers was here. The problem was NOT getting another ACC-quality QB while Rivers was here.

  25. SMD 08/01/2009 at 1:02 PM #

    ^^tcthdi – I agree with you point that history starts from each person’s perspective. I too grew up tailgating at C-F (actually, for a good amount of time, it was just C! 😉 )

    But, while it’s true that we each have our own experience, I do think that the Sheridan years laid the groundwork for the tailgating and gameday experience we have now.

    Up until Sheridan -yeah, we tailgated – but we did not have consistent sucess to attract fans beyond the most die-hard of Raleigh-based State grads/fans. All the wins and bowls that Sheridan’s tenure provided – half of which was immediately after the Valvano debacle – showed State fans a little glimpse of what big time football could be like.

    Did Holtz probably do a little better? Yeah, but in his day you didn’t have the TV contracts and hype that you did in Sheridan’s day.

    I will always maintain that Sheridan started the process to make State a “football” school. Our abject failure in basketball combined with the Amato tenure – completed the transformation.

    Let me be clear – “football school” is not defined by wins/losses/rankings – it is defined by the passion of the fans. Most Pack fans I know put everything into football these days.

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