The Post NBA Exodus ACC Landscape [Updated 6/18 + Poll]

09-10 Basketball71

Original June 15th, 2009 entry:
The deadline for withdrawal is 5:00 p.m. today, and ESPN’s Chad Ford is tracking the late deciders’ status. So far today, the ACC is 50/50 – Gani Lawal will return to a loaded Yellow Jacket frontcourt, and Jeff Teague likely knocked the Deacs out of every pre-season Top 25 list. Greivis Vasquez is still on the fence, but Ford expects him to return to Maryland.

UPDATE: Greivis will indeed return to Maryland for his senior season.

UPDATE: Teague not returning to the Weak Florists, joining teammate James Johnson in the draft.

ACCNow has a list and some analysis that calls Wake Forest the biggest loser.

Wake Forest stands as the biggest loser, with forward James Johnson and guard Jeff Teague exiting, although the Deacs kept forward Al-Farouq Aminu. After returning to the NCAA Tournament in 2009, the Deacs are tracking back towards the bottom third of the ACC in ’10.

In the draft
G Jeff Teague, Wake Forest
F James Johnson, Wake Forest
G Gerald Henderson, Duke
G Wayne Ellington, UNC
G Ty Lawson, UNC
F Brandon Costner, N.C. State

Out
G Greivis Vasquez, Maryland
F Gani Lawal, Georgia Tech
F Dwayne Collins, Miami
F Al-Farouq Aminu, Wake Forest

June 18th, 2009 UPDATE:
First, you need to go back two months and read a very good entry that is married to what we are getting ready to share here.

With ^that work in mind, Joe Giglio re-vamps his look at next year’s Atlantic Coast Conference landscape after the winners and losers of the NBA draft exodus have been declared (in this good piece at ACC Area Sports)

1. Duke
2. UNC
3. Boston College
4. Georgia Tech
5. Florida State
6. Maryland
7. Clemson
8. Virginia Tech
9. Virginia:

10. N.C. State: The Sidney Lowe Era hits Phase 2 with his own players. (9)

11. Wake Forest
12. Miami

POLL:

Sorry, there are no polls available at the moment.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball

71 Responses to The Post NBA Exodus ACC Landscape [Updated 6/18 + Poll]

  1. 61Packer 06/16/2009 at 11:05 AM #

    I predict our football team will win as many ACC games as our basketball team does this coming season.

    Maybe even more.

  2. rtpack24 06/16/2009 at 11:27 AM #

    Statefans makes an excellent point. There is no way to predict a conf. record or overall record ahead of a season to determine what it will take to get a bid to NCAA. Way too many varibles!

  3. NCSU4ever 06/16/2009 at 12:45 PM #

    Pack Alum44

    Sorry

    Just had to take a sarcastic dig at Costner: it still frustrates the hell out om me that a guy who had genuine All-ACC potential, refused to step up in his last season. If Costner could have gotten his head in the game those last 8 ACC games who knows how good we could have been.

    The one redeeming moment of last season was knowing he would never set foot on a basketball court wearing a NCSU uniform again.

  4. whitefang 06/16/2009 at 12:59 PM #

    Look I don’t know whether its 8-8 or if it takes 9-7 for us next year to get a bid. What I do believe is that we will know whether our program has taken a set forward or not before the season is over. Certainly anything less than 8-8 will strongly point to this not being the case. At the same time 8-8 without a bid, but with a young team that is improving before our eyes down the stretch from where we start the year will make a difference to me. Sure we are young, but the pieces should be in place to make whatever system our staff is running to begin to work.
    That is no more or no less than any of us have judged the fb program and staff. I saw a fb team last year that started slow, but began to get it down the stretch. The staff didn’t panic. They had a plan and they worked it. The team grew before our eyes. I want to see the same thing at least out of our bball program. Most of us will know if that happens.

  5. NCSU4ever 06/16/2009 at 1:13 PM #

    Thanks whitefang

    I’ve said it on this site many times: 8-8 is our minimum expectation this year, No more excuses.

    We are going to have, out of necessity, at least three freshman who will be forced to log serious minutes, and there will be mistakes, but if they play smart, hard, and as a team .500 will not be a problem.

    If we continue with poor morale, loser mentality, atmosphere, culture, issues or whatever you want to call it, then that is a coaching issue. The coach has to motivate the players and foster a team first, winning culture. If not were doomed no matter how many 5-Star recruits we land.

  6. BJD95 06/16/2009 at 3:21 PM #

    General bitching about negativity adds no value to the site. Counter the “negative” assessments with your own reasoned analysis, please.

    Northwestern will be neither a “good” nor a “bad” OOC game, in all likelihood. They do return 4 starters, but understand that they have NEVER made the NCAAT.

    rt is right in that there are too many variables to sort out this early. If the schedule turns out to be weak (in and out of conference), then we’ll just have to win more games. The selection criteria adjust accordingly. And the key for NC State is to be selected this year, whatever the path.

  7. JasonP 06/16/2009 at 3:41 PM #

    With all due respect, predictions CAN and WILL be made b/c they’re meant to be ridiculous and spark discussion. Guys in the journalism field make careers out of saying the stupidest predictions I’ve ever heard.

    That being said, it’s great that these players are coming back into the league, but the ACC is still not going to be very good. GT has some great front court players, but the last I saw Hewitt still ran that team to the relief of every coach in the league. If it ends up being a close game, the opposing coach won’t be so worried with Hewitt on the other bench. See NC State v GT at the RBC last year.

    I say it’ll take at least 10 ACC wins to secure an NCAAT appearance next season. I don’t think the ACC loses the Big10/ACC challenge, but it’ll be close. Even with knowing State’s roster and likely continued mediocrity at point, no team in the ACC should scare anyone involved in this program. I hope Wolfpack players are foaming at the mouth to get on the court b/c with effort they could get those 10 wins this coming season.

    And for what it’s worth, Lawson won’t cut it in the NBA. The guy goes to the right every single time. It worked in college b/c of his speed, but like someone else said, there’s no Paulus, Shumpert or Degand there. Teague will probably have a decent career if he works hard.

  8. packalum44 06/16/2009 at 4:03 PM #

    I personally don’t think Costner had All ACC talent. He’s not athletic enough and can’t take anyone off the dribble. When he tried to drive to the hoop, the ball bounced off his size 15 or was swatted away by a quicker, more athletic defender. He also didn’t have Hickson-like post moves. He was a poor defender. What he was good at was hitting threes in spurts which made defenders honest and allowed him to get into the lane at times and be an effective ACC player. Costner’s biggest mistake was being the best man on a team with a 6 player rotation. his freshman year. We were still last in league offense that year and he averaged 16 points or so. Points had to come from somewhere! The average fan and the local media have trouble putting this in perspective. Its like the best high school player on his team will average 20 points per game, doesn’t mean he’s ACC bound. Costner, nor anyone else on our team, could create offense (with the exception of Julius Mays who could penetrate and had a nice floater but he was under-played all season). I’m hoping Lorenzo and Howell have this ability.

    I think people need reminding of how many 4 and 5 stars don’t turn out to be great players. For example, how many 5 stars have been just average players at Duke? In the past several years: Josh McRoberts, Greg Paulus, Shavlick Randolph, Lance Thomas…moreover these guys had the best coach in the NCAA coaching them and are surrounded by a plethora of talent.

    The criticism Costner takes is unfair. We get one 5-star every few years and fans expects them to be #44. Well he didn’t play hard or he was out of shape or his body language was negative. Those are largely assumptions and up to the coach to address. So the fans bash the hell out of him like they do Hickson…THAT HURTS RECRUITING way more than some anonymous poster complaining about Lowe. What if a recruit sees Costner or McCauley or Fells or current players for that matter and says, “I’m thinking about going to NC State”…”Think again kid. Fans are dicks.”

    If I were to try to disseminate the players’ body language, I would assume the current players are unhappy and unsure of their role on the team. I paraphrase what Julius Mays said in a post-game interview, “We never really know when we’ll play.” The whole team has seemed miserable and lethargic for 2 years. Think their opinions to visiting recruits are more important than packalum44s?

    I might be negative when it comes to Lowe but I support all my players. I also delete half of my negative rants before I ever submit them so at least I’m trying! 🙂

  9. jonn 06/16/2009 at 4:20 PM #

    I don’t buy the argument that criticizing a player hurts recruiting. If that scares a kid away-he shouldn’t come.
    I do agree that Costner wasn’t nearly as talented as everyone seemed to think he was. He could shoot, but streaky. Unless he was matched up on a slow 4 or 5, he couldn’t drive and he sure couldn’t create. Maybe if he had been in better shape and not in love with the three he could have gotten more opportunities down low his sophomore year. His junior year had some good moments before the last month.
    Yes, he had a good ACC T his freshmen year, but his biggest game there was against Duke, who had no one to guard him.

  10. bradleyb123 06/16/2009 at 4:39 PM #

    ^ “I don’t buy the argument that criticizing a player hurts recruiting”

    I never said that. I’ve just been pointing out that some people are negative about everything Sid-related. Even the good things he does. I just get tired of all the negativity, and wondered aloud if it could possibly hurt recruiting. My original point, way back when, is that there is no need for Sid-bashing AT THIS POINT. Sid is here for 2009, like it or not. All I’ve been saying is at least wait for him to do something worth bashing before bashing him. And maybe save it for a time that it needs to be said, when powers-that-be are actually considering whether or not to extend his contract. Bashing Sid in mid-June, after he hauled in the 11th-ranked recruiting class is nothing but pure negativity without a purpose (except, maybe, for making the blogger feel a little better).

    I say give Sid a chance now that he has ALL his own guys. He’s no longer trying to play an uptempo offense with Herb’s Princeton-offense players.

    And there’s nothing wrong with giving Sid credit when it is due, as it is for his current recruiting haul.

    For the record, PackAlum, I agreed with just about every word of your last post. And I’ll be watching Sid closely this year, looking for him to make the same mistakes I think he made last year. I want to see improvement, and no more strange substitution patterns. But I’m willing to wipe the slate clean and give him a shot. After all, he’s not going anywhere YET.

  11. NCSU4ever 06/16/2009 at 5:50 PM #

    Pack Alum and Jon

    Yes, its debatable what kind of potential Costner may or may not have had. the point remains though, that if there was anyone that was going to step up and be a team leader last season it should have been Costner.

    I spent the last half of the season watching games and screaming for Costner to get back on D, and stop turning the ball over and jacking up ill timed threes.

    Costner should have been a leader and he wasn’t. My criticism of him remains

  12. bradleyb123 06/17/2009 at 11:00 AM #

    I agree, NCSU4ever. I think our “best” players last year were our “worst” players. We should have been able to expect more from our upperclassmen in leadership and overall play. They pretty much had to be the guys we played most because of their stature in the program. But they weren’t made for Sidney’s desired offense (that’s why I said they were our “worst” players). We pretty much HAD to play them, but they weren’t built for Sidney’s offense. You hate to lose upperclassmen like them, but I think we’ll be better off without them, in the grand scheme of things. The younger guys are the future of Sid’s system. The sooner they take over, the better. Their time is now. I think we may be better this year (depends on how well the new guys come along in their freshmen season), but I certainly expect a lot in 2010.

  13. kyjelly 06/17/2009 at 12:24 PM #

    Not to be too sceptical ,but could you please define “Sid’s Offense” I for one did not see any?

  14. frankiepack 06/17/2009 at 12:31 PM #

    There are rumors out of Minny that Mchale is not coming back to coach the Timberwovles and that Sid is on a short list to take over?

  15. bradleyb123 06/17/2009 at 3:46 PM #

    ^ “Not to be too sceptical ,but could you please define “Sid’s Offense” I for one did not see any?”

    Sid’s desired offense — the well-publicized “uptempo” offense he talked about when he first arrived.

  16. pakfanistan 06/17/2009 at 5:36 PM #

    “Not to be too sceptical ,but could you please define “Sid’s Offense” I for one did not see any?”

    Don’t watch much basketball do you?

  17. ryebread 06/17/2009 at 8:48 PM #

    I have to agree with packfanistan with that last remark. I think that people may say things like this because Lowe doesn’t run a classic motion offense that initiates the same way every time down the court. People don’t see that “system” approach so they don’t think he’s running an offense.

    SL runs lots and lots of set plays out of various formations. He also has more variation in his defensive sets than any coach in the ACC. People can criticize many things legitimately about Lowe, but trying to say he doesn’t know X’s and 0’s just makes the poster sound ill informed. I think he attempts to exploit match ups via plays more than any other coach in the ACC.

    If there’s a legitimate beef regarding Lowe’s X’s and 0’s it is that he may call too many things from the bench. I’m not sure our guys are as instinctive as they could be with a simpler approach.

  18. Wulfpack 06/18/2009 at 7:41 AM #

    ^I saw a LOT of standing around last year. Some games we were on fire and the other team couldn’t guard us. But often times we were just standing around flat footed passing the ball around the perimeter.

  19. choppack1 06/18/2009 at 10:45 AM #

    ryebread – I think in general, it’s the height of stupidity for a fan to criticize a coach on X and Os. However, I think these criticisms are usually more result motivated.

    I think areas where coaches can be criticized is execution, preparation and personnell management.

    If you see tons of fans complaining about X and O’s – it’s usually because the teams record sucks.

  20. blackdom 06/18/2009 at 11:03 AM #

    I have to agree with ky I way too much standing around on offense. If Sid’s offense consisted of one guy dribbling around while the other 4 watched ,resulting too often in a poor shot.

  21. bradleyb123 06/18/2009 at 11:25 AM #

    ^ “I saw a LOT of standing around last year. Some games we were on fire and the other team couldn’t guard us. But often times we were just standing around flat footed passing the ball around the perimeter.”

    Sounds like old “Herb Habits” are hard to break!

    Hopefully that won’t be an issue this year and beyond.

  22. StateFans 06/18/2009 at 11:52 AM #

    Although Sid’s sets may help create less motion and more floor spacing at times, I think A LOT of the ‘standing around’ that you saw (and that was so frustrating) was created by the well-chronicled habits of Courtney Fells and Brandon Costner. Hopefully, a different group of players with the kind of basketball IQ that CJ Williams has will help bring out the best in Coach Lowe’s offense.

  23. Alpha Wolf 06/18/2009 at 12:01 PM #

    “Sid’s offense consisted of one guy dribbling around while the other 4 watched ,resulting too often in a poor shot.”

    I called it the “Road Construction Crew” offensive style.

    It’s just like when you pass a crew on the highway. One working, the others watching, nothing much getting done.

  24. 61Packer 06/18/2009 at 1:11 PM #

    Loved Alpha Wolf’s post, …..”I called it the ‘Road Construction Crew’ offensive style”….

    Yes, Sidney is paving the Lowe road to success, one brick at a time.

  25. NCSU4ever 06/18/2009 at 1:28 PM #

    The Sun and The N & O are both BS

    There is no way this team finishes 10th. None at all.

    Even given the fact we will be playing a lot of freshmen and the fact that we still do not have a better than mediocre PG, I will go on record now as saying this years wolfpack team finishes no lower than 8th and possibly as high as 6th.

    Giglio’s predictions just show that he does not follow State basketball very closely.

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