Deshawn Painter: Florida’s loss becomes NC State’s gain

Basketball Recruiting174

8pm Update: BREAKING NEWS! – The Wolfpacker beat Pack Pride by about 15 minutes on this one with their report that Deshawn Painter has chosen to play basketball at NC State. SFN heard last week that NC State was ‘expecting’ to land Painter, but you never count your chickens before they hatch. We felt pretty good about State’s odds after Painter got out of his visit in College Park this past weekend without falling in love and committing in person to Gary Williams. So, we got ready to run this story this evening so that we would be prepared. Good timing/ CONGRATULATIONS, Coach Lowe and the Wolfpack!!

The recruitment of the one of the top remaining post prospects in country ended on Wednesday when Deshawn Painter chose NC State over Maryland after eliminating Virginia Tech from consideration earlier in the week.

Painter, of Chatham (Va.) Hargrave Military Academy, is a very athletic, ‘lengthy’ 6’9 power forward who has a well rounded game that includes the ability to rebound and block shots. After originally committing to Billy Donovan at the University of Florida, DeShawn ultimately changed his mind and re-opened his recruitment.

He is ranked as one of the Top 75 high school players in the country; Scout has given him four stars and Rivals has given him three stars. ESPNU ranks Painter #19 on their list of top power forwards in the country, achieving “score” of 92 as NC State’s other post commit – Richard Howell. Howell is ranked #20 on ESPNU’s list.

  • Wolfpack Hoops’ biography/profile of Painter can be seen by clicking here.

Make no mistake about Painter’s potential impact on NC State’s 2009-2010 team and on the program into the future. In this thorough entry on March 23rd we stated the following:

Much is made about State’s struggles and needs at the point guard position…and, Ryan Harrow may be scheduled to arrive in Raleigh one year too late for Coach Lowe. But, I see an even more glaring deficiency on the Wolfpack’s roster after the departure of Brandon Costner – NC State desperately needs some size, heft and toughness in the post. Despite the addition of Richard Howell in the 2009 recruiting class, an ‘ideal’ candidate for one of the Wolfpack’s remaining scholarships would be a junior college big man – preferably a true center of close to 7 feet – who can defend, block shots and rebound. Additionally, this would be ideal for current and future scholarship spacing needs.

Although Painter may not represent the ‘ideal’ situation that we projected with a hypothetical junior college prospect, he’s damn close and would obviously contribute to the program for more than just two seasons. Having versatile and skilled bookends in the post like Richard Howell and DeShawn Painter (as freshmen) behind Tracy Smith and Dennis Horner would create an awful lot of depth for the Wolfpack next year, and beyond) while helping to blunt the blow of (potentially) losing CJ Leslie from next year’s class.

Projected 2009-2010 NC State Basketball Roster

Senior Class
(1) Dennis Horner (F)
(2) Farnold Degand (PG)

Junior Class
(3) Javi Gonzalez (PG)
(4) Tracy Smith (4F)

Sophomore Class
(5) Johnny Thomas (Wing)
(6) Julius Mays (PG/SG)
(7) CJ Williams (Wing)

Freshman Class
(8) Scott Wood (Wing)
(9) Lorenzo Brown (PG/SG)
(10) Richard Howell (PF)
(11) Josh Davis (WF)
(12) Jordan Vandenberg (C)
(13) DeShawn Painter (PF/C)

2010 Commits
(1) Departure of Dennis Horner – Ryan Harrow (PG)
(2) Departure of Farnold Degand – Previously CJ Leslie (PF/C)

2011 Commits
(3) Departure of Javi Gonzalez
(4) Departure of Tracy Smith

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Basketball Recruiting

174 Responses to Deshawn Painter: Florida’s loss becomes NC State’s gain

  1. bradleyb123 05/15/2009 at 2:19 PM #

    “We have used up and Sid has used up all of his excuses.”

    But in my opinion, he has bought himself AT LEAST two more years with this recruiting class. There is too much inexperience to realistically EXPECT improvement THIS year (although I do anyway!) If Sid still needs excuses about why the 2010-11 season was so horrible, then he will have NO excuses.

  2. bradleyb123 05/15/2009 at 2:26 PM #

    “He still didn’t hit the homerun – no Top 10, game-changing player. The class does get better with Painter, though. There will be lots of pieces for the next coach to work with.”

    OK, top 13, top 10. When you’re that high, is it really that much difference? Whatever criteria Sid has not met over the first three years, I contend that you throw them out the window. We have very nearly an entirely different team, and one that is rated VERY highly. So this year’s team didn’t make the postseason. They are mostly gone. We have a new team.

    If Sid shows that he totally cannot coach with THIS bunch, then I will agree with you. We have to let this play out, though. With the recruits we have coming in this year, and Harrow (and Leslie?) next year, why would we even consider wrecking it all by giving Sid the ax?

    I just don’t get it. Maybe I’m more forgiving I guess. This recruiting class has cured a lot of ills I had with Sidney. And the last three years we had Princeton-offense players trying to play an uptempo game. With this class, I’m willing to wipe the slate clean for Sid.

  3. bradleyb123 05/15/2009 at 2:29 PM #

    And how could we possibly expect a top 10 class (even though we came within hollerin’ distance of doing just that) with the kind of seasons we’ve had lately?

    I’m sorry, but Sid DID hit a homerun considering NC State’s reputation for being so lousy for the last 20+ years. How many coaches could call up a great recruit and say, “We’ve sucked for three years with me at the helm, but come play for me anyway” and pull it off? Sid did just that.

    It just gets me that you say, “the next coach……” so nonchalantly, like you’ve already decided Sid will be gone no matter what. Are you even giving him a chance THIS year?

  4. old13 05/15/2009 at 3:39 PM #

    Call me waiting to see. There were glaring coaching issues – substitution patterns, BB fundamentals, motivation, discipline – in more than one game last year. Good recruiting doesn’t cure those issues. Plus there are the rumored (by usually reliable sources on this blog) off-court issues in the program of which I have no knowledge. I don’t mind having Sid another year (unless those rumored off-court issues warrant him being gone.) But there needs to be major improvement in the coaching product displayed on the court, and maybe the BB operations themselves, to justify another year with him IMO.

  5. Packman02 05/15/2009 at 3:53 PM #

    “Good recruiting doesn’t cure those issues”.

    ^ No, it doesn’t – but cleaning house does. Off court discipline and motivation issues are a two way street. Yes, it is the responsibility of the coach to correct such issues but, as the saying goes, you can only help those who want to help themselves.

    As for the Top 10 class. That is, to put it lightly, a bit of a stretch. NC State finished dead last in the ACC in 2008. NC State claimed the 10th spot in 2009. To bring in a (not yet, but it will be) concesus Top 15 class on the heels of that is almost unthinkable.

    Give Coach Lowe and staff some credit. They earned it by busting their humps out on the trail this year.

  6. BJD95 05/15/2009 at 4:24 PM #

    I’ll give them credit when I see the results.

    There are off the cout/program stewardship issues that have nothing to do with the players who have departed.

    rtpack24 is right when he cites the defensive statistics from last season. Horrible stuff. You can’t tell me that a team giving consistent effort that has any semblance of coaching finishes with those kind of numbers.

    And FWIW, Fells and McCauley were two of our three best defenders (not that they were at all good), assuming you want to lay the blame there again.

    In this day and age of college basketball, it is completely insane to expect a coach’s first three years to be completely written off as if they never happened. Frankly, I thought I was generous to write off Year Two like I did, as many commenters told me I was being too soft.

    Again, on the Top 10 vs. Top 15 – yeah, it is a pretty significant difference. But the main issue is the lack of a game-changing player. Lowe has done nothing to show me he can coach “solid” talent into a contender. He needed to bring in overwhelming talent and win that way. And again, you could say I was nitpicking the recruiting prong if he met the other 2 prongs (objective performance, consistent effort). While there was marginal improvement (and it would be hard to do worse than the Titanic-like 2007-08 season), Lowe didn’t come close to meeting either.

    I talk about the next coach because I believe it is 90-95% likely that Lowe will fail next year and we will have a new coach. I certainly hope to be proven wrong, but I have no reason for optimism, and will not pretend otherwise.

  7. DFMo 05/15/2009 at 4:28 PM #

    You folks all leave me exhausted. I do the same thought process, get riled up, go around in circles and then IIRC, remember that Sid asked for and received a 6th year in his base contract (normally NCSU would give a 5 year contract). He’s completed year 3. No way he is gone before 5 years are up. The real pressing question is when Jed feels he needs to give Sid a contract extension (otherwise all the other coaches will be saying he is a lame duck .. don’t go to NCSU).

  8. Thinkpack17 05/15/2009 at 5:01 PM #

    “I certainly hope to be proven wrong…”

    Oh you will be. I am 90-95% sure of it.

  9. bradleyb123 05/15/2009 at 5:16 PM #

    “I talk about the next coach because I believe it is 90-95% likely that Lowe will fail next year and we will have a new coach. I certainly hope to be proven wrong, but I have no reason for optimism, and will not pretend otherwise.”

    I get the points. Sid has had some glaring coaching issues since he’s been here, but I do think I saw some improvement from him last year. I was puzzled over the substitution patterns, too. But then they stopped for the most part.

    I guess if we have another bad year, it depends on what we perceive as the cause. If Sid looks like he’s doing the right thing, and the inexperience causes another 16-16 season, I can live with that. If he’s doing a horrible job and we finish with that record, I can see blaming Sid for that, and maybe bringing in a new guy.

    I don’t entirely write off his first three years. But I like the recruits, and I think he has to be given a chance to show he can do a good job with them. If Sid does good (not necessarily great, but good), I won’t hold the first three years against him. I’d prefer to look forward to even better things the year that follows. If it’s another mediocre to poor year (coaching-wise, not necessarily win-loss-wise), then I’d agree with you that it may be time to end the Sid experiment.

    I don’t think we should plan on that, though. And talk about him NOW like he’s a dead man walking. That can’t be good for anything.

  10. pakfanistan 05/15/2009 at 6:21 PM #

    “And FWIW, Fells and McCauley were two of our three best defenders (not that they were at all good), assuming you want to lay the blame there again.”

    That’s not what the data says at all. McCauley was OK, but Fells was kinda mediocre. He might have been our best defender had he not been injured.

    Regardless, his offensive output was offensive. Brown should be able to fill his role with no problem.

  11. BJD95 05/15/2009 at 7:44 PM #

    After four years, any failures belong to Lowe. He’s the coach and the general manager. I don’t have to be able to pinpoint the specific, micro-level cause. They are all Lowe’s responsibility.

  12. BJD95 05/15/2009 at 7:46 PM #

    McCauley = OK defender, Fells = mediocre defender. I agree completely. That still made them 2 of our best 3 defenders last year. Absolutely none of our players were good defenders last year. None.

  13. choppack1 05/15/2009 at 10:16 PM #

    Relax – after this year – we’ll should have the answers. If Lowe can’t go 8-8 against this ACC, I don’t know if he’ll ever be able to go 8-8 or better.

    He’s done a good job recognizing talent. Unfortunately, this is the ACC, and you can be a regular Paul Hewitt, and not accomplish diddly squat most years because everyone is going to have talent. You better be able to coach your guys up, you better be able to get them to execute – and you better have them tough – because if you’re week in any area – this conference will expose it.

  14. Otis 05/16/2009 at 8:14 AM #

    I don’t think that Sid is as bad of a coach as many of you make him out to be. But for the record my memory only goes back as far as Les. I would rather have Sid than the last guy we had, at least players get better from year to year and also throughout the year. I am hard pressed to think of players that progressed during their stay as much as Javi and Tracy. Hodge was the man from day one, but every year I would think, Herb has got some decent players as freshmen, wait till they are seniors, and then four years later they were only marginally better. That was the thing that drove me nuts about the old coach, and I do not see that problem with Sid. How many of us said that Javi was a waste of a scholly? Most of us, but today he is serviceable at the least. Herb was the master of getting good recruits and doing nothing with them, (Cliff Crawford anyone) Sid at least gives me hope, instead of feeling like State basketball is the sports equivalent of the Bill Murray classic Groundhog Day (sans the happy ending).

    Yeah Sid has work to do, but in the areas that I most wanted to see improvement I have seen them. Is Sid going to win us a national championship, definitely not any time soon, but I am not willing to throw him under the bus just yet. The other thing that really ground my gears in the past was the attitude that Carolina was just another game, that too has changed. I am not sure what people were expecting from Sid, but by the time the State got it’s third public “No” during the coaching search I lowered my expectations.

    I just think the Sid bashing is getting old. I have seen progress and improvement in areas that were important to me when Sid got hired. I did have one the has yet to be mentioned, exciting basketball. I have not seen it yet, not in any consistency. I expect to see it this upcoming season, if I am disappointed in that area, you may hear negativity from me then. I felt like before there were enough wins and success, the reasons I wanted a change were outside of that. At this point in time, I have seen a decent if not steady improvement in 2 of my 3 criteria.

  15. Dr. BadgerPack 05/16/2009 at 10:40 AM #

    This season we will see the “lesser of two evils” roster that I thought in previous threads would best suit Sid. That being relative depth of experienced ball handlers (Mays, Gonzalez, Degand) and relative youth in the frontcourt (Howell, Painter, Vandenberg, and even Smith from an experience standpoint). We’ll find out very early if that is the case. This team should be able to destroy the front end of the schedule. As was said in football last year, lose by a little… win by a little… win by a lot. Well, it’s in the “win by a lot” phase now against the sub 200 rpi squads.

    The composition of the roster does have some relative balance if kids continue their development. Mays and Gonzalez both demonstrated the ability to hit the three in the latter stages. With Williams, Wood, Brown and Horner in the mix, their should be a minimum of two more than capable shooters on the court at the same time. This will help the frontcourt out. Dribble penetration is an area that can also benefit the bigs, and this is one of a few areas that looms as a question mark. Brown could be a big answer there.

    The addition of Painter is huge. Not counting Vandenberg, there are now 20 fouls available in the low post from players I’d say will see significant playing time (Smith, Howell, Painter, Horner). Given Smith’s propensity for getting into foul trouble, this added depth is nice. What was once a flat out weakness is now, at the very least, adequate for ACC play. All the better if Smith can learn to avoid clustering his fouls– on numerous occassions he picked up multiple in a short time span.

    With depth in terms of athletes, I will be interested in seeing if Sidney adopts more of a pressing philosophy. I’m not advocating 40 minutes of hell (although heck, if you can do it go for it) but if on-ball defense is problematic for these guys, pressing can help offset that to an extent. An even bigger help would be if the defense fairy sprinkled some magic dust… sorry, Tommy Boy was on in the background.

    To sum up this essay succinctly, in the first dozen or so games, if the margin of victory doesn’t average a healthy double digits then I’d say we’re in a bit of a fix. Between now and then though, we at least get to watch some football. Football, by the way, could greatly benefit the basketball team. How you ask? Well, a very successfull football compaign should make for a happier fanbase, at least initially. So, if the freshmen need a bit of an adjustment period, at least they won’t immediatley be beseiged by a hostile crowd.

  16. MP 05/16/2009 at 12:46 PM #

    I look at this roster and the main thing that jumps out at me is that we need Javi to be a stud this year. I.e. be the leader of this team, be a mature player, and take care of the ball. He is a junior with a significant amount of in game experience so I see it as absolutely possible that he could step up in this fashion. Scoring is just gravy.

    The next biggest thing is that we need the exact same thing from Farnold only in a “senior player, backup, good for the program” kind of way.

    If these two guys can just do their job in the cerebral aspects of the game and be leaders in their own ways, this season could really be a program-building type of season. I hate to say it but if we don’t get mature leadership and mature play out of these guys, it could be devastating to the program. This is absolutely THE year from a program standpoint.

  17. JeremyH 05/16/2009 at 9:15 PM #

    There is always the opportunity for Degand to advance his game but he is just not an innate point guard. I don’t think he can read defenses, and often plays out of control. and he doesn’t have a shooting game… I think that he either needs to become a defense specialist or make vast improvements of these mentioned aspects of his game to even sniff the court. Mays is a more than serviceable backup ball handler.

    A result of the Painter addition (and maybe Van Der Beek, but I liked him better on Dawson’s Creek) is a much more effective Tracy Smith, who (let’s face it) is our goto inside scorer.
    anyways, with major upgrades in speed and shooting, we should be a much better team next year.

  18. Greywolf 05/16/2009 at 10:03 PM #

    “I’ll give them credit when I see the results” and I will give credit begrudgingly when I do.

    I missed seeing it here on SFN (it MUST have been here) where the basketball program scored 995 out of a 1000 — second in the conference to Duke I believe and ahead of UNX — in a rating that measures graduation rates. GT lost 2 scholarships for failing to achieve a certain score. Did I miss that news here?

  19. cooldrip 05/16/2009 at 10:29 PM #

    I think MP has made a very astute comment about team leaders. There has been a leadership vacuum on this team since Atsur left, and it has had a devestating effect. How many games have we let get away in the last 2-3 minutes? How many times has an opponent’s tactical change and quick flurry left us listless? I’d say enough times to have cost us a couple of spots in the league standings the last two years. Often a season might turn on just a few sequences in a few key games. This is where having a couple great team leaders is vital.

  20. Greywolf 05/17/2009 at 2:23 PM #

    “I think either the NCAA or good bye!”

    This or some version of it gets said a lot. Does it mean you think the administration is firing Sid if he doesn’t get an NCAA bid?

    One point to be considered is this: This administration reportedly has a 6 year plan, not a 4 year, “make-the-NCAAs plan. That 6 year plan is not based on Sid’s six-year contract. Sid’s six-year contract is based on the six-year plan.

    Why 6 years? First and foremost in my opinion it takes a minimum of 2 full years of contact and relationship building with the high school and (if you are going that route) AAU coaches as well as 9th and 10th grade prospects to begin to recruit effectively.

    The best possible option for selecting a new coach would be one who has a national reputation for winning and has an established recruiting relationship base. NCSU eliminated that option with its BB HC salary range. A second option would be a Larry Brown type coach who would come in for a specified time to give the program a “quick fix” shot and then look for the currently best available Mid-Major coach, ala Sean Miller.

    NCSU opted for someone who would consider NCSU because of reasons beyond career considerations such as an ex-player with professional experience such as Sid — someone whose name and background would give him immediate access to HS coaches and opportunities to talk to prospective talent.

    Can Sid coach? He did OK with what he had to work with his first season here, i.e., getting to the championship game and scaring the caca out of UNX. A win would have resulted in an appearance in the NCCAT. If and this is a big if, NCSU had beaten UNX in the ACCT that 1st year, would the “make the NCAAs or else” gang still be talking that talk?

    Can Sid coach? There is a priority for Sid that is not on our radar. Graduating players is a huge piece of Sid’s job description. It’s easy to ignore and trot out statistics that “prove” he can’t coach but that is a big deal to this and other Chancellors. Sid gets an A+ grade on this one. Sid faced the task of keeping players in school, i.e., not having them transfer, and coaching a style that, when fully implemented could result in high level basketball. (High level is anotehr way of saying amything but Princeton style basketball)

    Can Sid coach? We only know from a results oriented look. Some are aware that a better record could be achieved, ala HWSHBN, without improving the team. And some of us are ignoring that sitting a player somethimes is the best way to get his attention. All we can see is that after sitting, the player comes in and produces results. We are pissed because he sat, thinking the results would have been there without him sitting.

    Can Sid coach? Winning the maximum number of games each year is not necessarily going to get you where you want to go, if you are sacrificing training in a style that could get you where you want to go. (See HWSNBN) I don’t have the knowledge or ability to explain waht I am about to say, but sometimes failure must come before breakthrough progress. That was the problem with HWSNBN. He was too relatively successful to see that something other than what he was doing was wanted and needed to climb to the next level. Just a little improvement or just one more really good player would get us over the hump, not realising the the Princeton Offense was the hump.

    Can Sid coach? Incremental progress NEVER leads to breakthrough results. Make the ACCT, make the NCAAs, that is incremental progress. Landing Hickson was a precursor of things to come. We are approaching a Top 10 rated recruiting class in Sid’s 3rd calender year recruiting season but his 1st recruiting year based on the 2 years relationship building calender. Top 10 recruiting classes have the possibility of producng top 10 teams.

    Can Sid coach? Tracy Smith is a vastly improved player. Javi is an amazement with real possibility for being an ACC PG. Looking from the typical game-by-game and season-by-season plans for basketball success, I’d say that Sid is an absolute failure. Looking from the 6 year plan of the administration, I’d say that Sid is on track to being an absolute;y7 booming success.

    Can Sid coach? I intend to neither judge nor withhold judgement on the question, “Can Sid coach?” I am confident he will turn out.

  21. Greywolf 05/17/2009 at 2:41 PM #

    BJD95 Says:
    May 14th, 2009 at 10:20 am
    BJD95 Says:
    May 14th, 2009 at 10:20 am
    “If there’s one thing I hate, it’s seeing excuses being made for failure before the season even starts. Sidney Lowe needs a tangible accomplishment in 2009-10. Period.”

    If there’s one thing I hate, it’s seeing accusation of excuses being made when a differing point of view is being forwarded. Your point of view IMO reflects one of the most short-sighted POV’s I’ve seen. You and others continue to ignore that there is a plan for success that may or may not include milestones that you deem essential. Your milestone is totally irrelevant to the goals of competing for national championships. Your milestonse reflect linear progress, not breakthroughs which are what you and I really want.

    While you are stewing about next years results, check out the internet for some good recipes for crow. I’ve got a feeling you are going to need them.

    (Now, exercise your editing powers to insert your comments that reflect your upset at someone having the audacity to disagree with your opinions. 😉 )

  22. VaWolf82 05/17/2009 at 9:43 PM #

    I listened to the Herbavores talk about impending greatness (or the seeds thereof) for five years; but it never materialized. Why? Well I belive that there were systematic issues that capped how far a team with that system could go.

    Now I listen to talk of impending glory for next year….From a team that has shown serious issues at PG, defense, and rebounding. There is no help coming at PG and many here are depending on freshmen to supply defensive intensity and rebounding. Maybe great things will happen next year, but the odds don’t look good to me.

    In any event, I will be here if there is crow to be served. I have to wonder how many of the Kool-Aid drinkers will be here if things unravel next year.

  23. Thinkpack17 05/18/2009 at 10:02 AM #

    LOL…a person believes in their program and they are labeled a weak minded, Kool-Aid drinker. I will be around for the next two years…not matter what. Just like Sid.

  24. bradleyb123 05/18/2009 at 10:53 AM #

    “I missed seeing it here on SFN (it MUST have been here) where the basketball program scored 995 out of a 1000 — second in the conference to Duke I believe and ahead of UNX — in a rating that measures graduation rates. GT lost 2 scholarships for failing to achieve a certain score. Did I miss that news here?”

    Actually, State’s score of 995 was tops in the ACC, not second to Duke.

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