Very Cool: New Mexico State Will Feature 2nd Engineering Battalion Logos On Their Helmets

2ndbattalionlogI am a firm believer that the men and women who serve their country in our armed forces don’t get enough of our respect.  In my view, they don’t earn enough for the jobs they do, their benefits could be better and certain quarters take our freedoms that they preserve for granted and that folks often forget the sacrifice that’s required as part of the job.

That in mind, I think that New Mexico State’s doing a very cool thing by honoring the 2nd Engineer Battalion out of White Sands, NM for the 2009 season by displaying the battalion’s logo on the back of their helmets.  That small gesture may serve to remind people of the 2nd Battalion and the work they do for all of us.

NC State, as a school with very strong military roots, including a former Joint Chiefs of Staff and a current football coach who is a graduate of the US Naval Academy could also do the same thing, and tip their lid not only to the men and women in the service now but also the alumni that served as well as the current students who are preparing for their career in the services.  Not only that, there are military bases scattered across our state that are important to the economy of NC.

I’d like to see it happen here, even if the idea would not be original to NC State itself.  Perhaps a different logo of a unit with strong NCSU ties each season, with representatives of that particular group being featured guests at our annual Armed Forces Game.


General NCS Football Tradition

24 Responses to Very Cool: New Mexico State Will Feature 2nd Engineering Battalion Logos On Their Helmets

  1. tooyoungtoremember 04/24/2009 at 7:49 PM #

    Lest we forget, we share a fight song with the Army. I didn’t even know this until I went to my sister-in-law’s graduation from basic training. I think the university could come up with a clever way to advertise this, or at least make sure all their students are aware of this fact. Also, when my dad went to State, ROTC was a required course.

  2. coppertop 04/24/2009 at 8:12 PM #

    I am on active duty serving in the Coast guard and love to hear stories like this. NC State does have strong military traditions and is one of the top non academy schools for alumni who serve. (I believe Texas A&M is usually #1).
    I believe NC is unique in that there are many large bases across the various services in the state. Pope, Bragg, Lejuene, Cherry Point, Elizabeth City, all have significant impacts on those areas.

  3. highstick 04/24/2009 at 8:30 PM #

    We’ve got Army and Air Force alumni who have served and are serving our country today. It’s a proud tradition!

    I never will forget “sneaking off” to the beer hall on Tank Hill my last week of basic training in 66 and ran into one of my former dorm mates in Alexander there that night.

    You younger guys are missing an experience of seeing virtually every State student on campus in uniform more than one day a week like we did when Army or AF ROTC was required.

    Everytime I go to a game in which they have a “military salute” and play the songs of the 5 branches, I always end up the “Caissons go marching along” with a “Go State” at the end! It was really tough to not shout that during graduation from basic when the Army band was playing it though!

  4. LifeScientist 04/24/2009 at 8:57 PM #

    “Also, when my dad went to State, ROTC was a required course.”

    Yes, well when your dad went to State, people of BOTH political parties understood that politics stopped at the nation’s shorelines, and the party of Harry Truman did not routinely disrespect the military, i.e., John Murtha. Back in the day, no one was trying to run ROTC programs out, either. Things have changed since then.

    One other comment on this subject: its a disgrace that there are no bells in the Bell Tower given whom that beloved symbol was intended to memorialize. Seems to me that State was just bragging about the success of a one billion dollar fund raising campaign in the N & O about two years ago. One wonders precisely what the university’s priorities are.

  5. john of sparta 04/24/2009 at 9:17 PM #

    agreed. so many universities have
    “Memorial” as designations to buildings
    or institutions, then Ignore what was
    Memorialized. see: UNC Hospitals which
    Used To Be “Memorial Hospital” as a tribute
    to the WWII victory and a memorial to its memory.
    of course, we can go back much further for the
    “memorial”, then the PC crowd plays the whatever
    card…race/gender/religion/etc. sometimes, we
    must recognize history for what it was, and to
    put it in 2009 terms: “it was what it was”.

  6. wufpup76 04/24/2009 at 10:26 PM #

    “I am a firm believer that the men and women who serve their country in our armed forces don’t get enough of our respect. In my view, they don’t earn enough for the jobs they do, their benefits could be better and certain quarters take our freedoms that they preserve for granted and that folks often forget the sacrifice that’s required as part of the job.”

    ^Amen to that.

    Very cool of NMSU indeed.

  7. Cosmo96 04/25/2009 at 12:09 AM #

    highstick

    We’ve got Army and Air Force alumni who have served and are serving our country today. It’s a proud tradition!

    And Navy, too. 🙂 In NROTC, the Midshipmen have the option to be either Navy or Marine Corps officers. Thus, we’ve got Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine alumni.

  8. Greywolf 04/25/2009 at 12:37 AM #

    This is such a great thread. TOB might be agreeable to doing something similar here. It is best if it isn’t his idea, so I’m going to run this idea up the flagpole and see if Fowler salutes it. Since the adacemics have no interest in sports, maybe they can keep there effing mouths shut and not interfere with it happening.

  9. Greywolf 04/25/2009 at 2:45 AM #

    Alpha,
    This is your thread so I’m pasting a letter I composed to send to LF about the Armed Forces Game. I proposed Changing the name to Armed Forces Memorial Game. You’ll see why in the letter. I won’t send it until tomorrow or Sunday to allow for any suggestions for modifications. Given that it’s likely going to be seen and read by more than Lee and TOB, whom I am sending a copy, I really would appreciate your or anybody pointing out even the smallest typo or spelling or poor word choice.
    Greywolf

    Dear Lee,
    `
    I recall reading that at one time NC State, aside from the military schools, was second only to Texas A&M in providing officers to serve in the military, including a former Joint Chiefs of Staff. It’s easy to forget these days that at one time every student at North Carolina State University took some form of ROTC. Once a week every student was on campus and in class in military uniform.
    `
    The New Mexico State University Aggies football stadium built in about 1950 was named Memorial Stadium, a memorial to New Mexico A&M students who had served in the armed forces during World War I, World War II, and the Spanish-American War. When their current stadium was completed in 1978, the Board of Regents voted to retain the name to honor those students as well as NMSU students who had served in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts.
    `
    We are not about to change the name of Carter-Finley Stadium and we wouldn’t want to but we could slightly change the name of our Armed Forces Game to Armed Forces Memorial Game. This would not only honor those serving in the military and those attending the game who have served, we could honor those NCSU alumni who died serving our country and other alumni who served.
    `
    There’s a distinction here that I don’t want to overlook. The Armed Forces Game as I understand it was initiated to honor those currently serving or recently returning from service in the military. We could still do that in a very positive way. The New Mexico State Aggies football team is honoring the 2nd Engineer Battalion out of White Sands, NM for the 2009 season by displaying the battalion’s logo on the back of their helmets.
    `
    This could be a little sticky here in North Carolina with so many different units to consider. What we could do is have the patch of each unit here in North Carolina sewn on the uniforms of our players, one patch per uniform, so that all units are represented. Another possibility could be the patches of the Reserve Units and/or the National Guard Units deployed. I don’t know the “patch” rules for uniforms, but surely this is not a difficult obstacle to overcome.
    `
    This would extend the reach of those honored if the patches were donated by the military unit. You know each and every one of them would have it in their unit publications. Maybe something could be worked out having the units names called out over the PA system and the players representing that unit could be shown as a group raising their helmets in salute. Or something like that.
    `
    The Armed Forces Memorial Game would be an ongoing honor to the NC State alumni who are serving, the alumni who have served and the students who are preparing for their career in the services today. And it would honor a very rich past at NCSU.
    `
    It is probably overkill to mention that there are military bases scattered across our state that are important to the economy and the men and women serving on those bases whether or not they are deployed, will have a sense of the honor being bestowed on the military.
    `
    In closing let me say that every person I talk to is truly moved by what we are doing with the Armed Forces Game. When those jets “buzz” the stadium before kick-off, State fans attending, especially those old-timers who remember well the ROTC are thrilled. It is an emotional experience for me and others like me. Thank you for honoring our troops and especially for having the fly-over happen. It’s great for the children at Carter-Finley, too.
    `
    What can we do to forward this idea? What can I do to help?
    `
    Regards,

  10. TOBtime 04/25/2009 at 6:50 AM #

    Thanks for posting this Alpha and 100% agreement with your comments. To say our men and women in the military are underpaid is an understatement. Then again, so are our teachers, policemen, and firefighters. Of course, they just mold and save lives though.

    Nice Letter Greywolf!!! I was doing my internship but my wife went to a troop reception in Carter-Finley during the first Gulf War. She said there wasn’t a dry eye in the place and the gratitude everyone felt to the returning troops was immeasurable. As a vet I can’t hear enough stories like that.

  11. ncsumi 04/25/2009 at 6:58 AM #

    Thanks for the thread.

    I am History’85, USArmy (ret), and currently work on Bragg. I can confirm that State’s ties to Bragg/Pope remain strong. Bragg and Pope are littered with NCSU Alumni stickers on vehicles in the parking lots. Additionally, I now work with a lot of contractors in my travels, and often run into State engineers quietly but critically developing the tools to help the warfighter. I do not have the opportunity to attend many games, but I am proud that at every event I do attend, my Wolfpack family makes an attempt to recognize and appreciate the sacrifices of those who serve(d).

    As a side note, I just returned from my daughter’s AF basic graduation. Her squadron’s nickname was the Wolfpack and their slogan “May God have mercy on the Wolfpack’s prey.” As a diehard fan and one-day alumni, she quietly added “Go Pack” to the end of all their chants, and received some “good-natured” ribbing from her TIs due to her fortunate affiliation. I have a pretty neat picture of the squadron running in their Wolfpack T-shirts (unfortunately they are blue, but the word Wolfpack is State red).

  12. 4in12 04/25/2009 at 7:56 AM #

    I started at State in Fall 74 as a physics major. I had a great time (Holtz & Sloan were coaching then) and ended up enlisting in the Navy after three lack-luster academic semesters. In 1976 that was a pretty unusual thing to do. The military wasn’t very popular at that time. The only time I wore my uniform in public was to church on July 4, 1976 as part of a bicentennial celebration. The public was still coming to grips with Vietnam and we were advised to avoid confrontation. After my enlistment and working a couple of years I came back to State (thank you GI bill) and graduated in 86 in computer science (4in12 – get it?). I’m glad to see that the public has come to separate the people from the job. Whether you agree with our country’s policies or not, the men and women in uniform are there in service to us and deserve our respect.

    One other note – who knew that there are seven uniformed services in the US? People come up with Coast Guard pretty quick but not many get NOAA Corps and Public Health Service. Yes, the Surgeon General is a real General. They may be less likely to come under fire but they are service members too.

    Send the letter to Fowler.

  13. Paramarine 04/25/2009 at 8:41 AM #

    Here are two Marine units that go by the name “Wolfpack”:

    3rd LAR (29 Palms, CA): http://www.i-mef.usmc.mil/div/3lar/
    HMH-466 (MCAS Miramar, CA): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMH-466

  14. highstick 04/25/2009 at 9:15 AM #

    Cosmo, didn’t mean to intentionally “short” the Navy and Marine ROTC programs, but if there was a formal program for the Navy and Marines in ROTC at State in the early-mid 60’s, I didn’t remember it. I spent 4 years serving with all branches of the service at NSA so I don’t intentionally ignore any of them. (Although in private and in closed company, we’ll stab each other unmercifully!!)

    I know we had a number of active duty Submariners in EE and Nuclear Engineering at State at that time who were my fellow classmates.

    Back during the first Gulf War, I woke up early one morning and was watching CNN. There was a “white haired” Air Force General doing a presentation and I thought “this guy looks familiar”! I saw a repeat of the presentation later in the day and they flashed his name on TV. It was none other that General Buster Glossen, my AFROTC Deputy Wing Commander at State during my sophomore year. I’d met Buster my first week of orientation my freshman year through one of my roommates. Buster had a pretty good military career and also played football for State. Think he was from Kernersville or somewhere in that area. Another of Buster’s classmates and a friend of mine from my same high school, Oakie Bankhead, died back in the 80’s when he crashed a “test” aircraft in Georgia. Oakie landed a plane on I-85 near Spartanburg during his junior or senior year while taking flight lessons and the plane had engine problems.

  15. Greywolf 04/25/2009 at 10:05 AM #

    TOBtime,
    4in12,
    highstick,

    May I have your permission forward your ‘stories’ as a collective addendum to my letter to Fowler?

    Other who may post similar experiences, please add your permission to add your ‘story’ to the addenum.

    highstick,
    I was a navy guy myself. The closest I got to combat was East Main Street in Shit City. (For you non-Navy fans, Shit City is the swabbie name for Norfolk, VA. Norfolk is, if we were to give the world an enama, where we’d put the tube.)
    `
    At about 5 AM one morning the Tin Can I was doing my duty on, ole “Club 780” as we liked to call her, was re-fueling at sea. I was up leaning on the railing across from the tanker wondering how the hell we kept from colliding with her, when someone yelled across, “Hey, anybody from North Carolina?”
    I perked up and yelled back something clever like “Yeah, I am.”
    The usual “Where ’bouts?” followed.
    “Raleigh.”
    I almost shit myself when this guy inquired, “Do you know the Kelly twins?”
    “Oh yeah, but not in the biblical sense of the word.”
    `
    Some of you older, much older, guys may remember those girls. ‘Hot’, does not do them justice.
    Most of you guys were not born in those days but I’m sure your parents and grand parents felt much safer with me guarding the country. I’m just glad I lived to vote after my time drinking and carousing in Shit City.

  16. Cosmo96 04/25/2009 at 10:24 AM #

    Cosmo, didn’t mean to intentionally “short” the Navy and Marine ROTC programs, but if there was a formal program for the Navy and Marines in ROTC at State in the early-mid 60’s, I didn’t remember it.

    No worries, it probably wasn’t around back then. There used to be some sort of cross-town affiliation set up for NROTC, where NC State students who were Midshipmen had to go to Chapel Hill for their Naval Science classes and drill, but I’m not sure when that started. However, sometime in the early ’80s (I think), NC State got its own NROTC battalion. It is part of a consortium with the units at UNC and Duke, but State’s battalion was the largest (and best) when I was there, and I imagine it still is today. We shared space with the Army and Air Force in Reynolds Coliseum, and I understand that arrangement is still in place, as well.

    You may have heard of a State grad named Eric Cranford. He got his commission as an Ensign in the Navy through the NC State NROTC unit upon graduation in 1992. He eventually was promoted up to Lieutenant Commander, and was assigned to the Pentagon. He was working there on September 11, 2001, and was killed, along with a friend of mine who graduated from the Naval Academy, when the hijacked plane crashed into it. I never knew him personally, because he graduated in the Spring of ’92, and my first semester was the following Fall, but there is a scholarship that has been set up in his name that I have given to in the past. More information about it can be seen here: http://www.ncstatedc.com/scholarship.htm

  17. highstick 04/25/2009 at 10:25 AM #

    Greywolf, you’ve got my permission, but copy us on what you send. I’d love to see it.

    I shared this with Cowdog offline the other day, but one of my roommates when I came back after Army was a former member of the 1966 Freshman Basketball team at State. Would have been in the class with Van Williford and Nelson Isley, if I remember correctly. That was in the fall of ’71 and he’d just come back from a year in Nam as a 2nd Lt with the Rangers. Had to break him of his “jungle manners” which was a major task.

    My first official day after getting my final clearances at NSA was the same day the Liberty was “shot up” in the Med. I was diverted from my normal assignment as a linguist to a comm center monitoring the situation. I had no idea that one of my high school classmates from NC was on that ship and another of my language school Navy buds had just come off of there a couple of days before.

  18. Greywolf 04/25/2009 at 11:36 AM #

    Marine Heavy Helicopter Squadron 466 (HMH-466) is a United States Marine Corps helicopter squadron consisting of CH-53E Super Stallion transport helicopters. The squadron, known as the “Wolfpack”, is based at Marine Corps Air Station Miramar, California and falls under the command of Marine Aircraft Group 16 (MAG-16) and the 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing (3rd MAW)…On May 29, 1995, the Wolfpack exceeded 30,000 Class “A” mishap-free hours, becoming the only CH-53E squadron in the Marine Corps to do so.
    `
    I can see where TOB might get his “penalty free” attitude. If CTC had done time in the Marines, he might still be here at NCSY. 😉
    `
    There is a very cool “Wolfpack” insignia on the Wiki site linked above but I’m too computer ingorant to link it here. (see avatar) Too bad this “Wolfpack” is base in California. That would be one damn cool logo on the back of our helmets. What the heck, its Armed Forces and Marine to boot. Just saying…

  19. highstick 04/25/2009 at 12:45 PM #

    Cosmo and Greywolf,

    I pulled out my 64 Agromeck cause I couldn’t remember the name of the Navy group at State. It was N.E.S.E.P., Navy Enlisted Scientific Education Program for outstanding petty officers on active duty in the Navy and selected non-commissioned officers in the Marine Corps. Can’t believe I remembered the name of one of the guys that sat beside me in English, ETR2 (SS) Giffin. He had already served as a submariner on a nuke. My mind must be a “bottomless pit of worthless information”. I did not see any mention of Naval or Marine ROTC though.

  20. old13 04/25/2009 at 2:33 PM #

    I’m not a vet except for ROTC my freshman year at State. But I’ve been around the military most of my life. (I did engineering support for aircraft carrier construction, reactor assembly and initial fuel loading for USS Nimitz.) My longest-standing good friend, going back to high school, is a retired Air Force bird colonel who was on the Air Force Reserve command staff (a regular AF assignment – as chief of intelligence) during the first Gulf War. He’s an AFA graduate. (His dad was a sailor on a destroyer off of Normandy on D-Day!) Another friend is a two-time Purple Heart-winner from Nam as a marine helicopter crew chief. (He was also crew chief on Marine 1 for four presidents BEFORE he went to Nam!) My uncle was a B-17 navigator near the end of WW II. And my father-in-law was an infantryman in Italy near the end of WW II. So, yes, I very much appreciate those who serve in the US military and would support a game(s) (FB and BB?) to honor them.

    BTW I recollect that NROTC was off-campus during the 60s. NESEP was a different thing for bright enlisted folks already in the Navy.

    Also, a funny story from that era – had a friend in Army ROTC who was a platoon leader. Came an inspection and, when it was his turn, he couldn’t remember the command: “stack rifles – stack.” So to be sure his platoon did what it was supposed to, he “invented” the command: “put-rifles-in-little-piles – put!”

  21. haze 04/25/2009 at 2:45 PM #

    NMSU deserves props, that is a great way to honor the troops. Given NC’s concentration of services, I think you could make a case to honor a different NC batallion or service group at each home game, complete with insignia stickers on the helmets.

    Alas, this would be more constructive if we could ditch the bumper-sticker depth inuendo about who is and is not patriotic. Alienating major constituencies (i.e. Yes, Virginia, MANY State fans vote Democratic.) is a profoundly ineffective way to start a campaign.

  22. ncsumi 04/25/2009 at 3:09 PM #

    Highstick,

    It sounds like we have similar backgrounds. I have toiled for that three letter puzzle palace at the Field Station and tactical level for many years. I tried to offer contact info, if you were interested, thru the admin but the contact form is not working. I am a virgin-blogger so I may be breaking rule number three here but I go by the same moniker at yahoo.

  23. highstick 04/25/2009 at 4:12 PM #

    Gotcha NCSUMI. Worst thing that ever happened was acknowledging that “No Such Agency” actually existed.

    My Navy cubemate at DLI retired a couple of years ago from there, developed one of those nasty brain tumors and died shortly thereafter. The last time I talked to him, he said “what a way to spend retirement”!

    If you’ve been around 30 years, you certainly have remember a Henkle’s ham sandwich “through the garden”!

    Will touch base with you offsite.

  24. Greywolf 04/26/2009 at 11:33 AM #

    For those who asked to see here is the letter I intended to send to Lee Fowler. Instead I am sending it to Oblinger with a copy to LF and TOB. I’d rather the idea trickle down from the top than struggle up the chain, risking dilution and suffering interpretation as it goes.
    Grey
    `
    email to the Big O
    Chancellor Oblinger,

    `
    In a thread on a State Fans blog an alumnus commented he thought that, aside from the military schools, NCSU was second only to Texas A&M in providing officers to serve in the military. This includes a former Joint Chiefs of Staff sourced by NCSU ROTC. These days it’s easy to forget that at one time non-veteran students at what was then NC State College were required to take either Army or Air Force ROTC. That and a news release about the New Mexico State Aggies wearing an insignia of a battalion based in NM prompted me to write to the AD and suggest something similar.
    `

    Doing research for this letter I found that the New Mexico State University Board of Regents voted to retain the name, Memorial Stadium when their current stadium was completed to honor the NMSU students who had served in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts, as well as NMSU students who had served in the armed forces during World War I, World War II, and the Spanish-American War and were so honored when the prior stadium was built.
    `

    This discovery was the genesis of the proposal in my attached letter, which I am also pasting below for your convenience. Clearly the idea has grown to far greater magnitude than a football game and a decal, so I am addressing this letter to you.
    `
    I am also attaching comments by alumni that I suggest you take the time to read. I believe that reading these comments will be a very satisfying experience that would make any Chancellor proud of these Alumni.
    `
    Thanking you in advance for taking the time to read my proposal.
    `

    (Signed)
    `
    Text of attached letter:
    `

    Chancellor Oblinger,

    I propose the Armed Forces Game be rededicated the Armed Forces Memorial Game to honor all NCSU alumni who have served in the military. What better time than now when we have a Marine Officer coaching our team to use the occasion of football games played in Carter-Finley to honor NCSU alumni who have served their country through military service. I see NCSU being a leader in re-dedicating and strengthening the connection amongst athletics, students and the University at a time when athletics, especially football, seems to be losing its purpose throughout the country.

    There’s a distinction here that I don’t want to overlook. The Armed Forces Game as I understand it was initiated to honor the military and those currently serving or recently returning from service. We don’t want to lose sight of that objective and we could still do that in a very positive way similar to the New Mexico State Aggies football team is honoring the 2nd Engineer Battalion out of White Sands, NM for the 2009 season by displaying the battalion’s logo on the back of their helmets.

    This could be a little tricky here in North Carolina with so many different units and branches of the military to consider. What we could do is have the patch of each battalion based here in North Carolina sewn on the uniforms of our players, one patch per player or position, so that all units are represented. Another possibility could be the patches of the Reserve Battalions and/or the National Guard Units deployed. I don’t know the “patch” rules for uniforms, but surely this is not a difficult obstacle to overcome.

    This would extend the reach of those honored if the patches could donated by the military unit. You know each and every one of them would have it in their publications. Maybe something could be worked out, for example, by having a representative photo of the unit displayed on the Jumbotron and the players representing that unit shown as a group raising their helmets in salute. I only offer this as one possibility. Just as the posts of many NCSU alumni served to inspire this letter, this suggestion might lead to another possibility for honoring our Armed Forces.

    The Armed Forces Memorial Game could be an ongoing honor to the NC State alumni who are serving, the alumni who have served and the students who are preparing for their career in the services today. And it would honor a very rich part of North Carolina State University’s past. Our heart-felt thanks for continuing this wonderful tradition whether this suggestion is acted on or not.

    It is probably overkill to mention that there are military bases scattered across our state that are important to the economy and the men and women serving on those bases whether or not they are deployed, will have a sense of the honor being bestowed on the military and those who serve the military.

    In closing let me say that every person I talk to is truly moved by what we are doing with the Armed Forces Game. When those jets “buzz” the stadium before kick-off, State fans attending, especially those old-timers with the ROTC in their backgrounds are thrilled. It is an emotional experience for me and others like me. Thank you for honoring our troops and especially for having the fly-over happen. It’s great for the children at Carter-Finley, too.

    Please use me in any way you see fit in bringing this to fruition. I will be honored to serve. What can we do to forward this idea? What can I do to help?

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