NC State’s AD views his program as home to athletes not good enough to get scholarships from SEC schools

Tuesday we ran a damning numbers-centric entry regarding Lee Fowler’s Athletics Department. Today, we thought we would just throw out a few interesting items and insight that evolve more from recent off-the-field developments.

“The Mind of Lee Fowler”
One of SFN’s all-time greatest entries was written over four years ago by Michael Byrne. The essay – The Mind of Lee Fowler – was written in the heart of the Sendek years and does an amazing job of outlining a lot of the key points at the time, including Fowler’s multiple attacks and disparaging remarks on/about the NC State fanbase.

Sidenote: How did that strategy work out for Fooler when the basketball job opened and he needed to market the job? Mr. Simpleton has never never been able to look forward and understand the future consequences of his actions, comments and behaviors. Did it ever register with him or his bosses that Tom O’Brien pursued NC State’s football coaching job publicly and privately citing the strong support and great fanbase that Fowler has disparaged for years? Has anyone ever noticed that Coach O’Brien has never once highlighted NC State’s strong leadership as one of his factors for coming to the school?

You really HAVE to go back and read that entry. Byrne’s essay moves from table-setting to a valiant attempt to explain how past events in Fowler’s career have married with his egotistical personality to develop his administrative ‘philosophies’.

Lack of respect for NC State
Last month, a poster named packdiver05 shared the following story on Pack Pride’s premium boards that we could not ignore. It will make you sick when you read this, but the exchange re-inforces Fowler’s innate disrespect for the institution that he leads. I unfortunately have more perspective on this than I have time to type.

I know the nonrevenue sports don’t mean a lot to many people but to all the kids at this school that are working there butts off just as hard as these revenue athletes on much smaller or NO scholarships, and the alumni that gave four years to the university devoted to a sport they loved, it means a whole lot. I figured this story might help some of you get into the mind of our great Lee Fowler…

As a nonrevenue athlete at State completely under his tenure, for a sport that DOMINATED the ACC and national rankings for a very long time, I got to see how little he cared about our success first hand.

At a team meeting my senior year, we had the privilege of being berated by Lee Fowler for some of our teammates’ trying to get our coach replaced, at this time in his career it was OBVIOUS that he was not taking this program back to its glory days of the seventies and eighties.

At this meeting Lee Fowler stated that his goal for all nonrevenue sports was to be competing for a top 3 finish in the ACC standings, and to annually place in the top half of the conference standings. Looking back now, this would be a great goal for most of our athletics teams, because we are not even there, let alone challenging to win these championships. This to me is an unacceptable goal at UNC, at Duke, and throughout the ACC.

At this same meeting Mr. Fowler said one last thing that will forever sting me in the back of my head, and convinced me that this man is the largest problem/obstacle for the NC State athletics program. He asked our whole team, “Who here received scholarship offers to compete in the SEC?”

To me, the nerve of that question, to belittle us athletes that had devoted four years to this great university, by suggesting that most of us were not even good enough to compete in the SEC, that we should be happy that we were receiving scholarships anywhere, let alone here was degrading. And this man is supposed to be our universities greatest supporter.

Winning in Waco
Since we were talking women’s basketball, why not take a quick look at the following quote from Kim Mulkey:

“Don’t let anybody tell you that you can’t win at the highest level at Baylor University,” Mulkey said. “It’s been proven, and there’s no reason it can’t be done. It takes the right administration, the right resources and the right coaches.

Is it any wonder that NC State no longer competes at the highest level in college athletics since we only have one of the those three elements.

If any of you reading this have ever set foot in Waco, TX (particularly in the months of May-September) the idea that winning at the “highest level at Baylor University” is one hard damn thing to do.

While we are discussing Baylor, can I just say Scott Drew to get it on the record now? This guy is going places.

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AD & Department General NC State Administration Quotes of Note

85 Responses to NC State’s AD views his program as home to athletes not good enough to get scholarships from SEC schools

  1. Sam92 04/16/2009 at 8:29 AM #

    grimly, i echo what others have said above — the problem is higher than fowler, with the people who tolerate his performance and accept our broadly based subpar athletics program (and even applaud fowler for it). even if fowler did leave, the same people would be choosing his replacement. if i weren’t so pissed about it, i’d probably cry

  2. packbackr04 04/16/2009 at 8:31 AM #

    I believe it is over for us with every major prospect in the country. Sid is a fish out of water right now and every high school player in the country knows it. we just recruited a 1 star tweener from our own backyard for cripes sake! If sid felt he was in contention for any of these players (wall, cothron, leslie) he wouldnt have offered Josh Davis. Sid is finished.

  3. Noah 04/16/2009 at 8:34 AM #

    I think the Wall and Leslie stuff is more complicated than just wanting attention. But we’ll see…

    Alpha: agreed. There’s a torrent beneath the apparently still water there.

  4. Alpha Wolf 04/16/2009 at 8:34 AM #

    Sam92 – the flaw in your argument is that if Fowler leaves, it will not be his idea and therefore the powers-that-are would by definition have vetoed his leadership.

  5. ryebread 04/16/2009 at 8:35 AM #

    Four points:
    1) I believe that Greywolf is Fowler or someone very close to him.

    2) There is absolutely no context that would ever be acceptable for an AD to question players to their faces about their talent level. If you’re not firing Tarantini (which my guess is who this meeting was about), then provide a pony show, listen to their issues, say that a yearly review with him happens and dismiss all problems due to a lack of facilities. After doing that, thank the players for showing the courage to raise these concerns, say that you’ll take them in context when viewing the larger picture during the yearly review cycle and send them on their way. These things aren’t that hard. The players are 18-22 year old kids who are not savvy politically compared with an AD at a BCS school. If handled correctly the students would have felt their voices were heard, respected and appreciated, yet the issue could have still been brushed under the rug as was planned all along.

    3) Ultimately, the record under Fowler speaks for itself. All the other things are just anecdotal. Instead of continually posting articles referencing Fowler, I personally think the site should devote the upper right hand corner as a metrics tracker on NC State athletics. It should have the Sears Cup standings on the top and the conference rankings of each sport below it. The data should always be available, always be posted and always be a reminder to any visitor just how pathetic things are under LF.

    4) I’ve said for some time that permitting Fowler to continue on in his position as AD suggests that his results are acceptable to those above him. I personally think that has a lot to do with the fact that the department is run on the cheap, not viewed as a value add to the academic mission (which is a massive mistake — see Duke basketball or App State football for local examples) and as a result of even it’s meager results, still has money flowing in.

    We as fans are not going to change #1 and #2, but if the money stops, the BOT will be forced to do something. The only way that the little guy can change this is to call the Wolfpack Club, cancel all contributions and explain that LF is the reason. We should be professional, be willing to put it in writing and understand that the people we speak to at the Wolfpack Club don’t directly employ LF, but this is probably our best shot at getting anything done.

  6. Packman02 04/16/2009 at 8:42 AM #

    ^^ Noah, re: Wall and Leslie – by ‘complicated’, are you thinking World Wide Wes, the Cliftons, et. al.?

  7. old13 04/16/2009 at 8:43 AM #

    Here’s one of the biggest problems in making any progress in athletics – check out the third and fourth names in the listing linked:

    http://www.wolfpackclub.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9220&KEY=&ATCLID=702522

  8. Alpha Wolf 04/16/2009 at 8:45 AM #

    Grey is not Lee Fowler.

    He is entitled to his opinions as are any of us, and even if you disagree with him, treat him with the same respect you feel like you deserve.

    Further, if you disagree with Grey’s takes, view him as a Devil’s Advocate and use his ripostes as a way to hone your own arguments.

    Finally, if this thread devolves into personal attacks (and I am not saying it has, so don’t get your backs up) I *will* delete the posts. Don’t ruin this site’s long history of intelligent and thoughtful discussion with insults that do nothing to propagate a particular line of argument.

  9. old13 04/16/2009 at 8:50 AM #

    Why, Alpha, what a logical and civilized attitude you have! (Is that too personal! 🙂 )

    AND I’m in full agreement.

  10. choppack1 04/16/2009 at 8:55 AM #

    Alpha – I see Sam’s point. I mean, if they’ve put up w/ this level of achievement this long – what does it say about them?

    Basically, they’ve tolerated a high-level, high profile manager who insults his customers, doesn’t demand results, and embarasses the employer publicly.

    Domino’s recently had some employees in Concord film a Youtube video w/ them spitting on sandwiches while at work. Domino’s fired them. If Oblinger and the BOT were running Domino’s, those guys wouldn’t have been fired unless they embarassed domino’s a couple more times.

    Sorry alpha – I won’t suddenly have confidence in our university’s leadership even if they do can Fowler. Like some chick whose “stood by her man” while he’s cheated on her, beaten her and finally gets the nerve to leave the relationship – she’s probably going to find some other loser because her judgement sucked in the first place.

  11. Noah 04/16/2009 at 8:58 AM #

    ^^ Noah, re: Wall and Leslie – by ‘complicated’, are you thinking World Wide Wes, the Cliftons, et. al.?

    No, I was thinking that it is a problem that has an event horizon. You can’t sit where you’re sitting and see all of the information that you need to satisfactorily solve it.

  12. wufpup76 04/16/2009 at 8:59 AM #

    Grey has a history of being disrespectful towards other commenters.

    Grey has slung plenty of insults at people who don’t view the world as he does in the past, and has done so without even trying to engage in civil debate.

    Grey flames at least one fellow commenter in nearly every thread.

    Grey has done more to incite baseless, useless, and petty arguments here than just about any other that posts here.

    I appreciate what you’re saying Alpha, but let’s make sure that it applies to *everybody* please. If there’s going to be a level playing field let’s start with some of the worst offenders.

    Like I tried to say, I am not pointing fingers in any direction, but I do think that from all directions that we need to refrain personally insulting each other. At the end of the day, we all want State to win and capture titles.

  13. Sam92 04/16/2009 at 9:01 AM #

    alpha wolf, you make an interesting point, the BOT firing fowler should indicate an intention to move in a different direction, which would be positive. i’m not totally convinced of it though, but it is a hopeful thought. however, it doesn’t look like they are inclined to make that move any time soon.

    what would be interesting is to know what the turnover is like on the board of trustees, anyone have info on that? is there prospect of new blood anytime soon, or are will it be the same dinosaurs for the next 20 years?

  14. jbpackfan 04/16/2009 at 9:01 AM #

    PackLeader mentioned (above) that it was confirmed to him that Fowler will be back. Anyone else heard this, or are the Fowler is gone rumors still brewing?

  15. Pack Leader 04/16/2009 at 9:07 AM #

    “If sid felt he was in contention for any of these players (wall, cothron, leslie) he wouldnt have offered Josh Davis”

    <-
    The fact is thats just not true. State still would have enough scholarships if Wall, Cothron, and leslie if they wanted to come. The davis scholarship was a quick pick with more upside than downside. Think of it as Davis taking Simon Harris spot.
    Just like in other sports, good players notice where other top players go. Cothron is that link IMO. Harrow will be a more important player and more than likely a better player, but Cothron could spur the intrest of local guys like leslie, mabry, and tobais harris. I chose to be optomistic for the simple fact that state has ALWAYS been able to get top talent nomatter the coach. Sid is no exception.

  16. old13 04/16/2009 at 9:10 AM #

    nm

  17. TheCOWDOG 04/16/2009 at 9:13 AM #

    Sorry Wolfpup76, I dissagree.

    Grey is point/counterpoint without the Dan Akroyd personel insults.

    I’m hard pressed to remember anything personnaly vitriolic coming off his keyboard and more often than not, provides a little depth of thought.

  18. Pack Leader 04/16/2009 at 9:17 AM #

    jbpackfan-

    I never ment to infer that anything with Folwer was confirmed or set in stone. I have heard from several associates that if lee himself wanted to leave, he would have done so by now. Also, it seems the admin wants to see how LF’s hires do before they pull any string. (that seems crazy does NCSU not keep record of past history!?!?!) Sorry for the confusion but im hearing nothing is set in stone on this end, but if Lee wanted out thered be a for sale sign on the lake house by now……

  19. Wolf Dog 04/16/2009 at 9:22 AM #

    One of the torrents involving recruits is “internet fodder” that opposing schools” assitant coaches are using.

    “The dead man walking post” as relayed by Noah on this site in reference to Coach Lowe and implying that the school already has choosen Coach Lowe’s replacement etc. is great materail being used against us. And Noah contiues to posts things about recruits like he knows something, just like he knew something was goign to happen to LF couple weeks ago. Only thing going on with Wall is he considering going straight to NBA.

    Nothing like being able to tell a recruit why go to State? Sid got one foot out the door and the fan base hates him. Thanks Noah and SFN for promoting Noah as someone “in the know”. duh? Can the man be more negative about our coaches, school, and fan base? Noah should post as the “Recruit Killer”

    Recruiting is a brutal business and since this is a free site. Assistant coaches and recruits can read it and use it. Friend of mine said a recruit got a text from another school that said, Pack web site say Lowe “dead man walking” time to look at us”

    Time to ask is the site here to help our school or hurt it?

    If a coach uses the post of a fan in a comment section from a blog to negatively recruit, the recruit should consider the source. Last year, there were Carolina fans saying Roy should be fired for not beating Kansas and then wearing their sticker.

  20. thebigwood 04/16/2009 at 9:31 AM #

    re: Wall…maybe this is why he is holding off on making a decision

    http://wolfpackhoops.blogspot.com/2009/04/john-wall-going-pro.html

    It looks like he might be trying to find a loophole for going pro

  21. Pack Leader 04/16/2009 at 9:36 AM #

    And if you read that article closer, one will notice that David Stern is close to extending the college requirement to 2 years…. He says the level of talent entering is far greater than with a lucky high school kid every few years and all the rest fall threw the cracks….
    Ive preached it for years, take the baseball approach, if you wanta go pro out of high school go, but if you go to college you must stay for 3 years. take it or leave it no using a school for a few months then leave..

  22. Thinkpack17 04/16/2009 at 10:01 AM #

    “no using a school for a few months then leave..”

    I feel the same way…can Memphis really be proud of the basketball team they were supporting? I mean they were very good, but did they really represent the school? It’s basically been an NBDL team for the last few years.

  23. LRM 04/16/2009 at 10:05 AM #

    Non-revenue sports are the only ones with actual “student-athletes.” Like the commercial says, these folks are all going pro in something other than their sport.

    I’m surprised Fowler was kind enough to grace them with his presence, more less belittle them. Since, after all, they do so little to promote his agenda of building things.

  24. Thompson44 04/16/2009 at 10:07 AM #

    Fowler is staying on so the BOT can see how his Hires pan out? That is sad can’t they look at his tenure and see he has driven our Athletics down the drain. What is the hold up, what are they afraid of actually succeeding? This upsets me, I need a beer or 12.

  25. Thinkpack17 04/16/2009 at 10:08 AM #

    If Fowler gave half as much to the university as say a…Darrion Caldwell…we’d be much better off.

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