Directors Cup Update – Wolfpack dead last in ACC

A couple of weeks ago we posted somewhat of an ‘open entry’ to allow the community to discuss some of the chatter that is out there regarding Lee Fowler and the NC State Athletics Department. We have a ton to say about that topic and the reaction to the topic and will most definitely re-address the topic in the coming days, but we thought we would stick to a few items that we have been wanting to get on the blog for a while.

The Director’s Cup has released their April 9th standings…and…guess who (AGAIN) sits dead last at the very bottom of all of the programs in the Atlantic Coast Conference?

Current Directors Cup Standings
(2) UNC-CH
(9) Florida State
(13) Virginia
(17) Maryland
(19) Duke
(33) Wake Forest
(44) Virginia Tech
(48) Miami
(50) Boston College
(64) Clemson
(73) Georgia Tech
(78) NC State

This ranking is unfortunately no surprise for those of us that have followed NC State sports under the Lee Fowler era. Unfortunately, NC State is tracking even worse than last year when Fowler’s Athletics Department finished #53 of the 66 BCS institutions, besting only the following major conference institutions: Iowa State, Vanderbilt (Lee Fowler’s alma mater who does not have an actual Athletics Department), Ole Miss, Boston College, Kansas State, Washington State, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Oregon State, South Florida, Mississippi State, Rutgers and Cincinnati.

You should go read this important entry from last year to give yourself some context and knowledge. (I just hope that we can one day get our ‘fuhcilities’ on par with everyone else ahead of us so that we can finally catch-up)

—Lee Fowler Years—-
2008-09 – #78 (current)
2007-08 – #56
2006-07 – #44
2005-06 – #34
2004-05 – #51
2003-04 – #39
2002-03 – #43
2001-02 – #46
2000-01 – #56

—Les Robinson Years—
1999-00 – #40
1998-99 – #63
1997-98 – #43
1996-97 – #57

—Todd Turner Years—
1995-96 – #34
1994-95 – #32
1993-94 – #59

As we stated last year:

NC State finished #56 in the Director’s Cup in “Coach” Lee Fowler’s first year as Athletics Director in 2000-2001 and before he set out on his important ‘seven year facilities plan’ that was proclaimed finished in yesterday’s release of the Athletics Department’s annual report. So, after all of those important facilities that had to be built before we could start holding coaches accountable, the Wolfpack’s program is sitting exactly where it was in Fowler’s first year on the job and worse than the average of State’s finishes under both Les Robinson and Todd Turner’s tenure as ADs at NC State (when our facilities were so bad). (Click here for a detailed comparison of recent ADs at NC State).

For those of you particularly interested in numbers, you will be in heaven with the following links to a special series that we ran last year and hope to update some this year:

THE STATE OF STATE

  • Part One – Overall ACC Records (Link)
  • Part Two – Improvement (Link)
  • Part Three – Using Lee Fowler’s Standards (Link)
  • Part Four – AD Comparisons (Link)
  • Part Five – ACC Rankings (Link)

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AD & Department General NC State Administration Non-Revenue Quotes of Note Rankings & Lists

97 Responses to Directors Cup Update – Wolfpack dead last in ACC

  1. ruffles31 04/14/2009 at 11:51 AM #

    Daily Update,

    That is what really scares me about this year is that the spring sports aren’t likely to help us much in the standings.

    Baseball isn’t barring a miracle.
    M and W Tennis aren’t likely to make it to the NCAA.
    Softball has been a little down this year.
    Gymnastics won’t as even though they won the EAGL title (congrats) they finished last in the NCAA Regionals (including several teams from the EAGL).

    The only teams I can think of that could add points are the M and W Golf teams. I think the M Golf team is pretty good but I am not sure if the W Golf team is going to get any points.

    Overall, I can only see this number doing down this year, which is very depressing.

  2. harrisek 04/14/2009 at 11:52 AM #

    Would it be fair to describe our atleteic department as dysfunctional?

  3. Daily Update 04/14/2009 at 12:02 PM #

    ruffles31: I forgot men’s golf. We have a really good team, so we should score some points this Spring.

  4. newt 04/14/2009 at 12:04 PM #

    “We’ll never finish first in the state on this list, but we should be ahead of Wake and competing with Duke on a yearly basis.”

    Why not?

    Lee has some things working against him, but he lost me when he started knocking the fans, including our students, and making statements implying that the program just couldn’t be as good as our competitors.

  5. Daily Update 04/14/2009 at 12:08 PM #

    Sidney leaving this year a possibility?

    That would be really bad timing. Of course, making changes or being forced to make changes at the worst possible time would be typical of NC State. Maybe we would handle it better now with all of our experience?

  6. beowolf 04/14/2009 at 12:08 PM #

    Fowler’s seven-year plan is almost as effective as Stalin’s five-year plan. Query: Is men’s basketball the Ukraine in this analogy?

  7. Alpha Wolf 04/14/2009 at 12:09 PM #

    ^ Which Five Year Plan? The first three or the second two?

  8. CStanley 04/14/2009 at 12:18 PM #

    newt, Carolina will finish first year in and year out. The diversity of their success with the non-revenue sports is unparalleled in the State. Do we even have a field hockey team?

    We can compete though, and maybe, occassionally, we finish higher than them, but nowhere near no a consistent basis. I’m ok with that. It’s not like it’s ever been that way before.

    What I’m not ok with is where we are now. We should expect to be in the top 30 at least. If we’re doing that, that means we’re having success in most if not all of our programs.

  9. Thompson44 04/14/2009 at 12:18 PM #

    My feeling is that Lee will continue to lead us in this downward spiral. While I hope that he is asked to leave I really do not think it will happen. I hope I am wrong but my feeling is I am right.

  10. packbackr04 04/14/2009 at 12:19 PM #

    sidney lowe is friends with Ed Tapscott?

  11. LKNpackfan 04/14/2009 at 12:20 PM #

    At least Stalin’s objectives were clearly defined…

  12. nycfan 04/14/2009 at 12:35 PM #

    MAF was at State ’99-’04, which corresponds to an average Directors Cup standing of about 44. At San Diego, where she is now, they’ve been 162, 86 and 131 (currently) under her watch (the Director’s cup site only had the top 100 for ’05 and ’06). I bring this up b/c she gets a lot of credit from State fans for providing direction to State’s sports program, but I wonder if she just inherited some good luck with the football program? Didn’t she hire Fowler?

    I honestly don’t have an opinion either way about the meaning of her tenure for State sports, just curious if the Chancellor is also an important part of the story?

    Daily Update: I always enjoy your comments. Great point on bringing up the importance of the Chancellor. Fox did hire Fowler. Certainly you can’t measure a Chancellor’s or AD’s impact on an athletic department until 6-10 years down the road which is why Fowler is receiving so much heat in year 9. Fox did hire Fowler, but with her reputation you really have to question whether or not Fowler would have remained in his position for 9 years with Fox as Chancellor. People make bad hires all the time. Good managers realize their mistakes quickly and correct the problems. So would Fox have realized she made a mistake with Fowler? Personally, I think so.

  13. Wolf Dog 04/14/2009 at 12:42 PM #

    1/17th Valvano beats 100% Fowler. Some people can wear many hats and still be successful.

    Would anyone object to TOB as football coach and AD if it meant being able to give him more money to stay as coach?

    Comparing resources we should not ever be behind Duke. And I don’t buy we shouldn’t compare ourselves to Chapel Hill. We bigger and got the money coming in to our AD dept. Just that no one has made an effort to upgrade in so many areas. Being behind Wake in inexcusable, we seven times larger.

    I look at NCSU like this. We are the sleeping giant others fear. Same as others say UNX the sleeping giant in football everybody fears. We will be that giant the day we appoint someone that has the vision and plan to do it.

    NCSU has built tremendous good will throughout the state. The university has so many programs that touch so many lives. We have played instate schools for years to help them generate revenue while our neighbor ignored them. Even on radio broadcast we give scores of other instate colleges. You don’t hear that on Woody’s broadcast.

    People want to cheer for us. Their was no comparison to the number of fans and fanfare the NCSU 83 championship generated vs. UNX 82 championship.

    We just need a leader! TOB didn’t go to UNX, he saw the potential at NCSU. Don’t let anyone fool you, we have more potential than any other instate school.

  14. waxhaw 04/14/2009 at 12:42 PM #

    Plenty of room for improvement next year. Would a 15% jump from 12th to 10th warrant an extension?

    I don’t know what’s simmering behind the scenes but it would be very ironic if the women’s basketball search was Fowler’s undoing.

    Not making any judgement on coaches and just looking at the process, you screw up both high profile jobs and nothing happens. You screw up a women’s bball search and you get the ax.

  15. Wulfpack 04/14/2009 at 12:45 PM #

    Flip Saunders was hired as the Wiz’s new coach. Sidney and Flip have a long history.

  16. Wulfpack 04/14/2009 at 12:52 PM #

    UNC dominates the non revenue sports (soccer, lax, etc.) and as long as Roy is there they are a top 10 or better basketball program year in and year out. We aren’t even close on so many levels. UNC isn’t our rival anymore.

  17. wufpup76 04/14/2009 at 1:03 PM #

    nycfan,

    Fox is at UCSD, not San Diego University.

  18. wufpup76 04/14/2009 at 1:10 PM #

    Hey! – We’re only 5 spots behind Georgia Tech – I mean come on!

    In other news, as has been mentioned earlier Flip Saunders is now the Wiz head coach and Isiah Thomas is the new head coach at FIU. Just stuff to keep an eye on …

    How does Thomas keep getting head coaching jobs … and how will he screw up FIU? Anyone wanna lay odds on FIU showing up on our schedule next season?

    “Hi Sidney, it’s Zeke. We should definitely get our squads together and show everyone how we do things in the NBA!”

  19. nycfan 04/14/2009 at 1:15 PM #

    I knew she was at UCSD (and btw have heard tremendous things about her work in support of research there), just wasn’t thinking about the existence of SDU when I scanned the Director’s Cup standings and saw “San Diego” … so ignore the SD standings, but the overall question regarding the importance (or not) of the Chancellor remains the same to me. I can say that UNC chancellors since I was in school tend to be openly supportive of the athletic program (including a guitar serenade on the official university web site from the current Chancellor to our hoops team for the national title + offer to teach Roy how to play a real guitar).

    Carolina has had its share of faculty unrest/complaints about the athletic department, don’t get me wrong (for instance, it is my understanding that the faculty reps let it be known they would not accept Larry Brown as a UNC coach when Roy turned down the job the first time, pretty much torpedoing his chances despite Dean’s support, and the support of the faculty council for John Bunting was probably instrumental in extending his tenure), but overall my sense is that there is a much more cordial relationship between the academic and athletic departments than appears to exist at State.

  20. MatSci94 04/14/2009 at 1:17 PM #

    The thing that is most disappointing about the director’s cup type rankings is that it is for *all* sports. If you have a bad year in a few, but are OK in others, it balances out. To be last in the conference means we have been bad at everything.

    I’m not even saying that every coach should be fired if you ever have a bad season, but there should be the pressure and expectation that it is *not* OK. There should be clear ideas of what is wrong and how it can/will change. If there is a clear case of facilities being so poor that it affects recruiting, then sure, that becomes part of the answer (Method Rd soccer field comes to mind, it reminds me of a middle school field). There is no way that it is the problem with *every* sport, though. Heck, no one says Duke should give its FB coach a pass because they play in a cement toilet.

    I don’t care how we do relative to carolina. They have been fortunate enough to have some really top non-revenue sports (including the US National JV team in w soccer several years ago). There is no reason we shouldn’t be consistently in the top half of the ACC and top 30’s nationally.

  21. BJD95 04/14/2009 at 1:18 PM #

    Lowe’s potential “parachute” in Washington re-affirms the need to be getting proactively ready for another coaching search. Step one is casting Lee Fowler aside.

  22. Daily Update 04/14/2009 at 1:27 PM #

    Deleted per wulpup’s post below. Not sure how I missed that.

  23. Noah 04/14/2009 at 1:32 PM #

    Any chance that you could whip up some kind of quick commentary on this that we could run as any entry on the blog? It would be a fantastic piece!

    I don’t know how much of a commentary I could do.

    My larger point was that Schembechler enjoyed the same kind of blind loyalty that Valvano did.

    If you bring up Jim Valvano’s name, a certain section of the fan base will defend him…no matter what. He did a great thing here in 1983 and has earned their undying loyalty for all time. NC State fans are not unique in that regard.

    Bo Schembechler enjoyed the same kind of loyalty. Because of his 25-30 years of excellence in coaching, a lot of the fans were incapable of rendering critical evaluations of him. For instance, when Gary Moeller was throwing down cocktails and starting a ruckus (that would ultimately get him fired), there were a lot of people who claimed that Schembechler was WITH him. There was the Frieder firing. There was the Ernie Harwell firing (when he was the Tigers).

    Bill Martin was NOT a former coach. He was a real estate developer. He was so successful in that, he started his own bank.

    He was a big-time sailor and managed to get on the board of US Sailing Association (which helps with the America’s Cup, I believe). He did such a good job there that he got nominated to head the finance committee of the USOC. And he did such a good job there, they made him president.

    He took over at Michigan at immediately gave his salary away for a foundation that helps kids in need pay for college. He’s gone on a major building blitz. Remember…biggest stadium in America and it was built during the first WW. That means it’s not handicapped accessible and it was grandfathered when the Americans W/ Disabilities Act came in…so any new construction (suites) meant that a MAJOR overhaul was necessary for it to be compliant.

    They’ve done overhauls to all of their smaller sports facilities and they’re doing basketball next, apparently.

    They’ve won national titles in field hockey, softball, ice hockey (I think), they have good olympic-sports teams. And he’s dealt with controversy and troubles pretty well. He managed to lead coaching searches in both basketball and football and came away with decent hires in both. Remember that everyone just assumed he’d be able to bring in Les Miles with a phone call.

    He inherited the crooked booster issue in basketball and dealt with it. He inherited and dealt with underperforming coaches in Tommy Amaker and Brian Ellerbe.

    All of the Big 10 schools are excellent academic institutions. So, it’s not like it’s the SEC where athletics run the college.

    I’ve never hired an AD…but if you put me in charge of finding the next guy here in Raleigh, I’d want someone very much like Martin. I’d want a guy who showed that he could thrive in multiple disciplines. I’d want a guy who could handle a hundred things thrown at him at once (like the Olympics). I would want someone who had integrity, generosity, passion, intelligence and foresight.

    Most importantly, I’d want someone who was great because of what they had accomplished…not because they went to school here. Yeah, if you’re an NCSU grad and you meet those criteria, that’s awesome. But Todd Turner didn’t suck because he went to UNC. And Les Robinson wasn’t great because he went to NCSU.

    But that’s just me.

  24. wufpup76 04/14/2009 at 1:35 PM #

    DU,

    I know I’m being a turd, but Fox’s school actually competes in NCAA Div. II:

    http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/UCSD

    “Athletics –
    The school’s sports teams are called the Tritons. UCSD’s perennial strengths are in water sports (Swimming and Water Polo), soccer, volleyball, and tennis. UCSD participates in the NCAA’s Division II and in the California Collegiate Athletics Association. Prior to its move to Division II, UCSD competed in the NCAA’s Division III and was considered one of the best programs there. Like most younger UC campuses, UCSD does not have a football team, and so some students joke of UCSD’s “undefeated” record. Their newly-formed roller hockey team is 6th in the nation.”

    It’s easy to get UCSD (Tritons) mixed up with Division I USD (Toreros). I’m sorry to be rude, but wanted to throw out the correction before it all became a comparison.

  25. Alpha Wolf 04/14/2009 at 1:44 PM #

    Every computer geek knows UCSD, or should. That’s a major computer science school.

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