Coping With Another Hole Title (Updated 9am Tuesday)

09-10 Basketball229

“Our fans are comparing ourselves to Duke and North Carolina. Every program in the country doesn’t do well when you’re compared with those two on a day-to-day basis. I understand that our fans want to be able to compete with them; we all do. But you can be real good on a daily basis and not be better than those two programs.”

Don’t ignore yesterday’s look-in at all sports…but, this morning we have to discuss a little basketball.

Tuesday Update
When NC State gave up basketball in 1990 – the Wolfpack held two National Championships; UNC-CH held two, and Duke held none.

When Lee Fowler was hired as Athletics Director a decade ago – the Wolfpack held two National Championships, UNC-CH held three, and Duke held two.

After ten years of (lack of leadership) from Lee “I know basketball and I have a contract” Fowler – the Wolfpack STILL holds two National Championships, UNC-CH now has five, and Duke now has three.

Great work managing that program, Lee! I could only imagine where we would be if you didn’t ‘know basketball’!

We wrote this highly-trafficked entry when the Tarheels won their National Championship in 2005. We implore you to click on it and give it a read (the charts no longer work) as we see no reason to bust our ass to update it this morning since it still couldn’t be more relevant this morning. The following is a taste:

Good morning, sleepy head!!!

Did you sleep well? Heck, did you sleep at all? Regardless of if you tossed and turned all night, you have awoken to a New World Order!!! Sounds kind of ominous, doesn’t it? No matter, it is true –

You now live in an environment and under a set of circumstances that have LITERALLY NEVER existed as they do today — April 5, 2005. April 7, 2009.

For many, this N.W.O. is nothing that you haven’t felt inside or intuitively known since…oh….about 1995 or so. But, having ‘felt’ it for a decade still may not compensate or serve to ease many Wolfpackers pain this morning. You went to bed last night without letting all of the ramifications of your arch-rival’s newly minted National Championship sink into your system, and you have woken this morning to a landscape that has never existed in the history of NC State’s Basketball program.

As of THIS MORNING, NC State is further behind UNC-CH in National Basketball Titles (and ACC Titles) than we have been at any point in the entire history of college basketball. Additionally, there has never been a day on this earth where BOTH Carolina and Duke held this lead in ACC and National Championships over NC State.

Think about that for a moment…especially you jackasses that constantly degrade our tradition because you can’t grasp its magnitude…and you Fowlerites and Kennellites who openly proclaim that NC State athletics should not strive to contend for Championships or measure to the standards of Carolina and Duke. (I wish that someone would have told us this was NC State’s “not goal” [since we don’t have any goals or measurements] BEFORE we were solicited to pony-up tens of thousands of dollars just to sit in dead arena and watch the college version of the Washington Generals go out and tackle one of the nations worst non-conference schedules on an annual basis.)

[snip]

Lee Fowler is our Athletics Director, and as of THIS MORNING, the Athletics Department that he leads has NEVER, EVER been further behind Carolina’s and Duke’s in championships.

Surely you don’t wonder why this could be the case.

BJD on Monday night
As I have watched UNC play defense all tournament long and dispatch opponents with shocking ease, I have made my piece with Roy Boy getting his second ring. I sure as hell don’t like it, but I can accept it. Suggested coping methods (put yours in the comments):

1) Grudgingly admit that UNC is a worthy champion. Other than Hansbrough’s whiny antics, I have no real disgust for any of their players. They play hard, play together, and keep up an entertaining pace. Contrast that to Deano’s peak years.

2) It will really piss off Coach K. Roy’s run in Chapel Hill is making K so jealous that I believe he would blow Dwon Clifton on TV to sign John Wall. Sorry for the nightmare fuel. As queasy as we will be around 11:28 pm, you can take comfort that at least one man will be even more inconsolable.

3) Feel good for the nice Hole fans that you know. As you know, Hole fans are more prevalent than flies on dogshit in mid-August. Because the sheer numbers are so high, you have to know at least a few that you don’t want to punch. If you’re local, it’s possible a subset of those fans (well, probably all of them) actually went to school there. If you live in Boston, these are probably the same people who pretend that they liked the Patriots before they were good (and strangely don’t know who Steve Grogan is).

That’s all I have. Thank God it will be all over soon, save for the gayest riot you’ve ever seen.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball

229 Responses to Coping With Another Hole Title (Updated 9am Tuesday)

  1. Tampa-Pack 04/07/2009 at 11:09 AM #

    ^CStanley – My son just turned four and is beginning to fall in love with basketball. Living in Tampa, we only get the nationally televised games, or I am stuck watching on ESPN360. Anyway, he asked me last night why everytime we watch a game “the team in red” loses, and I really have no answer. Maybe he would find more joy in pulling for someone else. As an alumni, I don’t feel I have that luxury…

  2. choppack1 04/07/2009 at 11:16 AM #

    TOBtime – I went back and read your post – and you did say it was simplistic. (One thing about doing this stuff when you work, you sometimes miss important details!) Well, thanks for opening the door to my 16 Candles comparison anyway.’

    CStanley – My son is 15 months old. He’s cheered before watching sports. Ironically, it was when VaTech was making a run against us. I will not force or even necessarily encourage the boy to pull for the Pack – why should he bear that cross?

    I guess for some of us, we can be thankful that we at least got a small taste of what it was like when NC State cared about the results on the field and wasn’t operating under some gray, ill-defined 15 year plan.

    It’s funny, I used to be a huge Braves fan. I didn’t stop caring overnight. After they lost the heartbraker to the Yankees, I started caring just a little less each year, until one year – I didn’t spend more than a few minutes keeping up w/ them.

    Now I’ll keep up w/ them and read the box score, but I can’t stand it when they are on the radio – I’d rather hear the Packman show – especially after fooball practice starts.

  3. PackisRolling 04/07/2009 at 11:27 AM #

    my 4-year old says he loves the tar heels and I’ve quit trying to convince him otherwise.

  4. redfred2 04/07/2009 at 11:33 AM #

    X

    Please just stop the direct personal attacks and the more indirect ones like this. Address the points of what someone said on this thread if you disagree.
    VaWolf82

  5. bb1983 04/07/2009 at 11:45 AM #

    While I think most of us agree on the Fowler replacement (and we have since probably 2004) I ask that everybody please look at the bigger picture. The biggest problem with a populist uprising is an over-simplified point of view. The more “lunatic fringe” members that understand nuance, the better off we are.

    “Blaming [Fowler] for the lack of national championships is kind of like blaming Obama for this recession”
    Of course Fowler has been around as long as Bush has been president, not Obama, but either way it is a difficult sell. The cards were dealt for this recession in the late nineties, but you won’t hear me or anyone else blaming it on Clinton. What caused the more-than-decade-old economic roller coaster we’re currently experiencing was/is a culture that accepts poor risk management as bad luck, and cultivates a victim mentality. Without getting into politics, presidents Bush, Clinton, and to an extent Obama are all guilty, along with the rest of us (not just the CEOs) of missing the boat on certain red flags, and discounting the possibility of unlikely scenarios.

    NC State University is poorly managed. Athletics’ mismanagement is a result of mismanagement across the board. While the managers are the responsible parties (Oblinger, Fowler, BOT, NC Legislature), the problem is in the culture, the priorities, and the resources. While I agree that Fowler should go, firing one individual is a symbolic move, and is far from enough to change the course of the university.

    As for promoting Fowler out of his current job, why didn’t that happen with Amato? He cared about NC State, and he was the driving force behind the facilities improvements and high-level recruiting. His biggest fault was a lack of discipline. Fowler is a friend of the Good Ole Boys network, and likes his comfy, stable job. From what I hear, he believes that he is invincible. He cares not about NCSU, but about casually shopping himself to higher-paying AD jobs. What to do with him is up to the people in charge, but I advocate his dismissal. We then should be able to decide between a highly paid, proven, well known AD and a young guy that is so scared to lose his job that he works long enough hours to get the job done.

    But please people. Look at the bigger picture. We’ve had a culture of mediocrity for 20 years. It won’t change next season. We need to do the right things today to make it happen in the next five, or even ten years. Look back to NC State athletics 20+ years ago. We were not only competitive, we were the best in many aspects. Saying that we will never be competitive again is akin to the people who said in 2000, 2002, 2004 that the democratic party would never recover. (Notice the same commentary about the republicans this year)

    IMHO, here is a list of things to do today, to make NCSU competitive again tomorrow:

    – Fire Lee
    – Hire skilled professionals to promote and represent the university. UNC hired a guy whose job it is to write/edit wikipedia articles about the school.
    – End the mass exodus of on-campus living. Renovate dorms and build new ones, and make NCSU a fun place to be again
    – End the prohibition on tradition. UNC gets to jump over bon fires, we should be able to have our risky traditions back.
    – Promote more on-campus, community-building activities, and coreograph freshman orientation in such a way that you create fanatic fans.
    – Hire more advisors for the full time students, and make it a goal to shrink the gap between 4-year and 6-year graduation rates.
    – Shrink the part-time student body. WTCC is a great place to be a part time student. Part-timers contribute little to the community.

    All of this will require a more efficient distribution of money through the NCSU finance department. Charlie Leffler is a very smart guy, and can acheive this with the right people behind him and support from the BOT and community as a whole.

    It will likely require a higher per-student funding level from the Legislature. Dr. Jim needs to grow a pair and stand up for the university first in the legislature, then in public if neccesary. Unfortunately, most politicians are lawyers, and we don’t have a law school… Guess where those lawyers came from. We need to work harder for our funding, and wake people up to the fact that it costs more to train an engineer than a journalist.

    Most of all, we the people need to educate ourselves on the nuance of improving our standing as a school, and continue to care about and stand up to the school. Threatening to cut contributions is an effective tool when used properly. Saying “F*@! it, I’m leaving” is not helping anybody. So please do your homework, understand where we came from and what it will take to acheive our goals, and advocate responsible changes in a reasonable manner. The change has started from the bottom. Effective change is initiated at the top. We need to convince the top that changes should be made, and stick with it for the long haul.

    edited formatting to ease reading -B

  6. redfred2 04/07/2009 at 11:46 AM #

    X

  7. packalum44 04/07/2009 at 11:48 AM #

    Two things stick out to me:

    This team is like those FL teams with marginal NBA talent. They are very good players but not quite good enough to be sure fire 1st rounders so they stick around long enough to win the dance.

    Lawson is the most improved player in the country. UNC friends told me he dicked around his first two years and man were they ever right.

  8. bb1983 04/07/2009 at 11:58 AM #

    The way to break a good ole boys network is to make the positions held/appointed by that network relevant, desirable, and competitive.

    We’re not looking to get rid of those people who donate large sums to the university and make decisions, just to make sure that people who have befriended those who make decisions still have to work to keep their jobs.

  9. 98st8 04/07/2009 at 12:23 PM #

    I seriously wish we could make Tom O’Brien the Athletic Director in concert with being the football coach. He is no- nonsense, no BS, expects nothing but the absolute most out of his players and coaches. If they don’t give it… expect to be out of the game or no longer a coach.

    You have to wonder what TOB thinks of the job Fowler is doing. The two approaches to success are diametrically opposite.

  10. Cardiff Giant 04/07/2009 at 12:23 PM #

    Alpha: I have no idea of the timing. That’s politics far above any insight I have. That sort of thing runs silent and runs deep underwater.

    Like a submarine! Or a Cylon. Perhaps Fowler is the Unknown Cylon.

    Nice catch of the Edward Beach reference. As for a being a Cylon, Ellen was the unknown Cylon. But since Cylons have a Plan, we know he’s not one of those.

  11. old13 04/07/2009 at 12:25 PM #

    Just so I’m clear on this, the Chancellor is selected by the BOT and approved by the unc university system board, right? How are BOT members selected/appointed:

    http://www.ncsu.edu/about-nc-state/university-administration/board-of-trustees/index.php

    The unc system appoints the majority of the BOT. Is that self-serving!

  12. Wolf Dog 04/07/2009 at 12:31 PM #

    VaWolf. My post is not directed at any one person. I am just a frustrated fan like so many others on here.

    We just need more constructive opinions and unified objectives in our pursuit of improving our athletic department.

    For so many years we been a top tier ACC B ball school. It was very hard to watch the politics that pulled us down to this level. We get beat down for a kid selling shoes or an asstitant coach being present for a pick up game. UNX gets to violate the rules so the president can visit. UNX has a kid compete in an illegal tournament. He only has to sit a game. UNX booster gets a kids mother a job or another kids mother an apartment in town. Nothing!

    Sour grapes! Sure. Did the best team win last night! Yes. Lawson was awesome the entire tournament. The steals and controlled the ball. Reminded me of one of the reasons why we won in 83. Sid didn’t turn the ball over. Just hope Sid finds that magical winning formula again. I hope Sid realizes being a friend to these kids won’t make you a champion coach. Roy is a hard ass, but a good mentor. To me this is the one main item that will turn things for Sid. Its time!!!

  13. bb1983 04/07/2009 at 12:34 PM #

    BOT consists of 13 members, 12 of which serve 4-year terms:

    1 Student Body President (1-year term)
    4 Appointed by the Governor of NC
    8 Appointed by the UNC System Board of Governors

  14. highstick 04/07/2009 at 12:41 PM #

    I didn’t watch last night and woke up hoping for a miracle! No such luck! I offer no congratulations to them though cause their fans are everything I dislike about humanity!

    I took the survey, blasted the appropriate people, etc. Don’t think it will do any good, at all! SOS over and over and over!

    TOB did show up at the Mecklenburg caravan last night, didn’t mention Foulup leaving, etc. From what I hear, no one mentioned basketball which is to be expected.

  15. MrPlywood 04/07/2009 at 12:44 PM #

    Did someone mention Animal House?

    “Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! And it ain’t over now. ‘Cause when the goin’ gets tough… the tough get goin’! Who’s with me? Let’s go!….. What the f*ck happened to the NC State I used to know? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the guts, huh? This could be the greatest night of our lives, but you’re gonna let it be the worst. ‘Ooh, we’re afraid to go with you Pack, we might get in trouble.’ Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I’m not gonna take this. UNC, they’re dead men! Duke, dead! Wake…”

    “Dead! Bluto’s right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part.”

    “We’re just the guys to do it.”

    *Let’s do it*!

  16. highstick 04/07/2009 at 1:16 PM #

    I’m game, Plywood, but what is “IT”??

    Maybe “IT” is what Obie, Fowler, the Board of Trustees, the Big Blue Board, the WPC, and our faculty have been doing to us for years. I want to do “IT” to someone else for a change! I’m tired of having “IT” done to me!

  17. packbackr04 04/07/2009 at 1:22 PM #

    love the animal house!

    “and if you mention extortion again…. I’ll have your legs broken”

  18. TaxWolf 04/07/2009 at 1:23 PM #

    DON’T GIVE UP, DON’T EVER GIVE UP!!!

  19. Greywolf 04/07/2009 at 1:24 PM #

    MrPlywood
    April 7th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
    `
    Yeah, it was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor. MrPlywood, this is a brain fart of the caliber I usually have. LOL 😉 Or was this a quote from Animal House?

  20. Alpha Wolf 04/07/2009 at 1:40 PM #

    D-Day (Bruce McGill): War’s over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.

    Bluto: Over? Did you say “over”? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

    Otter (Tim Matheson): [whispering] Germans?

    Boon (Peter Riegert): Forget it, he’s rolling.

    Bluto: And it ain’t over now. ‘Cause when the goin’ gets tough… [thinks hard] the tough get goin’! Who’s with me? Let’s go! [runs out, alone; then returns] What the f*** happened to the Delta I used to know? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the guts, huh? “Ooh, we’re afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble.” Well just kiss my a** from now on! Not me! I’m not gonna take this. Wormer, he’s a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer –

    Otter: Dead! Bluto’s right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody’s part.

    Bluto: We’re just the guys to do it.

    D-Day: Let’s do it.

    Bluto: LET’S DO IT!!

  21. VaWolf82 04/07/2009 at 1:45 PM #

    VaWolf. My post is not directed at any one person. I am just a frustrated fan like so many others on here.

    My goal was to make the point that direct and/or indirect personal insults have no place here. It seems to me that the frequency of these attacks is rising and I hope to stem the tide somewhat. Frustration is never an excuse for stupidity (not that your post wandered that far).

    It is often difficult to disagree without being disagreeable. But if we can achieve that goal, then this place can provide a useful diversion and interesting conversation. Name calling adds nothing useful to any discussion….and this includes references to any members of a coaching staff.

    Alpha: and let’s please try to limit the four letter f-bombs too. That can be trouble in workplaces, for example.

    VaW: Good point. Profanity impresses no one that has moved beyond grade school.

  22. Grumpy Llama 04/07/2009 at 1:49 PM #

    It’s laugh or cry time. So I’m gonna try to laugh. I made some Fowler-centric Demotivational posters, if you care to see them, they’re at http://www.grumpyllama.com/posters.

  23. DFMo 04/07/2009 at 1:50 PM #

    So the game is ending and I have this conversation:

    Me: If I had a baseball bat and was going to hit one of those Tarholes in the knee cap …
    Wife: (interrupting) that’s just terrible, how can you think that?
    Me: Let me finish please. I would NOT cap any of them in the knee. I don’t hate any of them that much.

    I am using BJD’s #1 coping method and reiterated much of these same comments.

    1) Grudgingly admit that UNC is a worthy champion. Other than Hansbrough’s whiny antics, I have no real disgust for any of their players. They play hard, play together, and keep up an entertaining pace. Contrast that to Deano’s peak years.”

    Note: this in no way implies I am happy about it. Waiting for the day that 2 Tarholes jump at the same time over a fire, one falls in the fire, has terrible burns and then sues Chapel Hill for safety negligence. I also wonder what the Raleigh PD would do if NCSU students started fires on Hillsborough.

  24. choppack1 04/07/2009 at 2:20 PM #

    John Wall has a list of 4: Kentucky, Kansas, Duke…and UNC.

  25. rdjennin 04/07/2009 at 2:23 PM #

    So is the BOT meetings open, because if so I would go and sit in on one.

1 … 5 6 7 8 9 10

Leave a Reply