Coping With Another Hole Title (Updated 9am Tuesday)

09-10 Basketball229

“Our fans are comparing ourselves to Duke and North Carolina. Every program in the country doesn’t do well when you’re compared with those two on a day-to-day basis. I understand that our fans want to be able to compete with them; we all do. But you can be real good on a daily basis and not be better than those two programs.”

Don’t ignore yesterday’s look-in at all sports…but, this morning we have to discuss a little basketball.

Tuesday Update
When NC State gave up basketball in 1990 – the Wolfpack held two National Championships; UNC-CH held two, and Duke held none.

When Lee Fowler was hired as Athletics Director a decade ago – the Wolfpack held two National Championships, UNC-CH held three, and Duke held two.

After ten years of (lack of leadership) from Lee “I know basketball and I have a contract” Fowler – the Wolfpack STILL holds two National Championships, UNC-CH now has five, and Duke now has three.

Great work managing that program, Lee! I could only imagine where we would be if you didn’t ‘know basketball’!

We wrote this highly-trafficked entry when the Tarheels won their National Championship in 2005. We implore you to click on it and give it a read (the charts no longer work) as we see no reason to bust our ass to update it this morning since it still couldn’t be more relevant this morning. The following is a taste:

Good morning, sleepy head!!!

Did you sleep well? Heck, did you sleep at all? Regardless of if you tossed and turned all night, you have awoken to a New World Order!!! Sounds kind of ominous, doesn’t it? No matter, it is true –

You now live in an environment and under a set of circumstances that have LITERALLY NEVER existed as they do today — April 5, 2005. April 7, 2009.

For many, this N.W.O. is nothing that you haven’t felt inside or intuitively known since…oh….about 1995 or so. But, having ‘felt’ it for a decade still may not compensate or serve to ease many Wolfpackers pain this morning. You went to bed last night without letting all of the ramifications of your arch-rival’s newly minted National Championship sink into your system, and you have woken this morning to a landscape that has never existed in the history of NC State’s Basketball program.

As of THIS MORNING, NC State is further behind UNC-CH in National Basketball Titles (and ACC Titles) than we have been at any point in the entire history of college basketball. Additionally, there has never been a day on this earth where BOTH Carolina and Duke held this lead in ACC and National Championships over NC State.

Think about that for a moment…especially you jackasses that constantly degrade our tradition because you can’t grasp its magnitude…and you Fowlerites and Kennellites who openly proclaim that NC State athletics should not strive to contend for Championships or measure to the standards of Carolina and Duke. (I wish that someone would have told us this was NC State’s “not goal” [since we don’t have any goals or measurements] BEFORE we were solicited to pony-up tens of thousands of dollars just to sit in dead arena and watch the college version of the Washington Generals go out and tackle one of the nations worst non-conference schedules on an annual basis.)

[snip]

Lee Fowler is our Athletics Director, and as of THIS MORNING, the Athletics Department that he leads has NEVER, EVER been further behind Carolina’s and Duke’s in championships.

Surely you don’t wonder why this could be the case.

BJD on Monday night
As I have watched UNC play defense all tournament long and dispatch opponents with shocking ease, I have made my piece with Roy Boy getting his second ring. I sure as hell don’t like it, but I can accept it. Suggested coping methods (put yours in the comments):

1) Grudgingly admit that UNC is a worthy champion. Other than Hansbrough’s whiny antics, I have no real disgust for any of their players. They play hard, play together, and keep up an entertaining pace. Contrast that to Deano’s peak years.

2) It will really piss off Coach K. Roy’s run in Chapel Hill is making K so jealous that I believe he would blow Dwon Clifton on TV to sign John Wall. Sorry for the nightmare fuel. As queasy as we will be around 11:28 pm, you can take comfort that at least one man will be even more inconsolable.

3) Feel good for the nice Hole fans that you know. As you know, Hole fans are more prevalent than flies on dogshit in mid-August. Because the sheer numbers are so high, you have to know at least a few that you don’t want to punch. If you’re local, it’s possible a subset of those fans (well, probably all of them) actually went to school there. If you live in Boston, these are probably the same people who pretend that they liked the Patriots before they were good (and strangely don’t know who Steve Grogan is).

That’s all I have. Thank God it will be all over soon, save for the gayest riot you’ve ever seen.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball

229 Responses to Coping With Another Hole Title (Updated 9am Tuesday)

  1. wufpup76 04/07/2009 at 9:26 AM #

    Begrudgingly, I say congrats to the Holes.

    To top off my misery, on top of the Holes winning yet another title (hey! having goals and expectations DO matter!) and the state of our athletics in general I am also extremely sick.

    It’s truely been a wonderful 48 hours or so.

  2. beowolf 04/07/2009 at 9:28 AM #

    This is no longer about Lee Fowler … It’s about NC State’s powerbrokers accepting pisspoor results and not seeking to ruffle the feathers of its stronger neighbor or embarrass itself by admitting it’s trying. End of story.

    The more I am convinced this is the truth, the less I am persuaded to spend any more time caring.

    I would go so far to note that this attitude is universitywide and not merely related to sports.

  3. wufpup76 04/07/2009 at 9:33 AM #

    Alpha,

    In fairness, Chris has posted here on other topics in the past when gloating was only optional 😉 …

    By in large I agree with you though … at least it wasn’t some random idiot who created an account named “Holes#1Forevah2009CHAMPS!!” just to come on here and try to pee on everybody’s baby blue corn flakes this morning.

  4. WV Wolf 04/07/2009 at 9:34 AM #

    Since we’re on the subject of national championships, thought this would be a good time to bring these numbers back up.

    While Lee Fowler has been AD, every ACC school has won a team sport national championship except NC State and Virginia Tech (and at least they’ve been to BCS bowls). Carolina and Maryland have won two national championships each this school year while we’re still looking for our first ACC title.

    National Championships 00-01 to 08-09
    1. Maryland – 8
    1. North Carolina – 8
    3. Duke – 5
    4. Wake Forest – 4
    5. Florida St – 3
    5. Virginia – 3
    7. Boston College – 2
    7. Miami – 2
    9. Clemson – 1
    9. Georgia Tech – 1

  5. TOBtime 04/07/2009 at 9:34 AM #

    ^Alpha, I noticed the same thing and quite honestly was waiting on Chris to show up. Through his insightful input to our site I have come to the conclusion that he/she, at some point, attended NCSU and wandered from the fold. They just cannot resist coming back.

  6. Noah 04/07/2009 at 9:37 AM #

    Chris92Heel behaves himself and usually contributes something to the conversation. I don’t see any reason for blasting the guy the day after they won the national title.

    Plenty of State fans post on UNC sites. I’d say it’s pretty natural and pretty harmless.

  7. wufpup76 04/07/2009 at 9:37 AM #

    “I would go so far to note that this attitude is universitywide and not merely related to sports.”

    ^I would say you are correct.

  8. Rick 04/07/2009 at 9:55 AM #

    “The more I am convinced this is the truth, the less I am persuaded to spend any more time caring. ”

    I am convinced of it.
    Thus why I have given up. Changing Fowler will not change anything. It will just be varying degrees of not winning.

  9. Greywolf 04/07/2009 at 10:00 AM #

    choppack1
    April 7th, 2009 at 8:51 am
    “I’m the last one to defend Fowler, but I can’t lay the blame of a lack of national championships on his feet. After all, he’s only been AD, for what 9 years?

    Blaming him for the lack of national championships is kind of like blaming Obama for this recession – the conditions were very much in place at their arrival.

    I do believe he is at least partially responsible for the overall dismal state of our athletic program. Then again, somehow, he’s keeping his job”….(and the rest of Chop’s post)
    `
    Chop,
    This level of sanity needs to be on another thread. Let those that want and need have an outlet for release of frustration.
    `
    What has over-emphasizing LF’s shortcomings over the past 5 years or so gotten us? Not much. Failure to acknowledge that “he builds facilities and evidently he operates a respectable athletic budget” puts “those w/ the power to make the decision…Murphy, Oblinger and our BOT” in the position of having to defend Fowler, especially Oblinger and our BOT.
    `
    In an ideal world Fowler will be fired the week of April 13, after his very worthy charity golf tournament takes place. Then a very successful and likely high-priced, AD will be recruited, the salary commensurate with his ability apporved, his contract bought out, and we will have the level of competency required to have a top-25 athletics program at NCSU.
    `
    Is this likely to happen? Not really. Buy out an administrators contract? Pay another salary greater than the Chancellor’s for an athletics related position? I don’t think so. And what if we were to make such an un-NCSU type move? Would Super-AD have time to get it all done? I don’t think so. I for sure would not come here with all that needs doing and not a budget of sufficient size to do it. Consider all the coaches who aren’t cutting it.
    `
    What other scenarios are on the mat now? Promoting Fowler to a position safely out of the public eye (and ear) and bringing in a young, ambitious young associate AD from another school to do that which LF has not been able to do seems to be a viable alternative. Those of us who want a pound of flesh will scream to high heavens about what we will do if LF gets promoted. We need to get over that and do what’s best for NCSU.
    `
    Let’s face it. Researching, recruiting, negotiating with and for talented coaches is not only a full time job at NCSU, it will take a staff and assistants to do it. Except for football, swimming and diving and perhaps gymnastics, what sports DON’T need a coaching change. (I’ll listen to arguments for coaches hired with 3 seasons or less behind them being retained but on a short lease.)
    `
    Is the “fan base” willing to give up extracting its pound of flesh for a model that works? I’d vote “No” to that question. Satisfaction or success? Choose.

  10. Wolf Dog 04/07/2009 at 10:02 AM #

    I don’t know why a state fan would waste time on a UNC site or vice versa. Seems the only purpose of doing so would be to act as an agitator.

    My guess is those that belong to UNC sites and post here as supposedly NCSU fans are really sheeps in Wolves clothing. Only here to stir up fan reaction that is not healthy to our sports programs.

    Unlikely in my opinion. If you disagree, then send an e-mail to the site with who you suspect and the reasons why.
    VaWolf82

  11. bradleyb123 04/07/2009 at 10:05 AM #

    “[Carolina], as of right now, are better than us at every sport, the only thing we can hang our hat on is Russell Wilson, and who knows what next football season will bring. It may not be as good as we hope it will be.”

    I agree with most of the posts here today, except for this one. Carolina had a better record than us last year ONLY because of the crazy rash of injuries, and a weaker schedule (I think our SOS was ranked 3rd in the nation).

    Remember the last four games last year (and the first half of the Bowl game, before RW got hurt?) I fully expect that type of play right out of the gates this year. The only difference for our team (pretty much) is MORE talent and MORE depth, and more than one quality QB, assuming Glennon is as good as advertised, which I hear he is… he’s definitely no Beck or Evans!

    In fact, the outlook I have for our football team is the ONLY reason I give a dime to the university. It’s sickening how they have had NO CONCERN whatsoever for winning for the last 20 or so years. When the day comes that TOB leaves, and they pull the same garbage they have done with basketball, and don’t replace him with a proven winner, I will hang up my hat and stop all donations to the university. I’ll always pull for NC State, but I’ll just watch the Panthers or something and stop worrying about State. Our football situation is the only thing keeping me on board. They better not blow that. If football was as bad as basketball, I’d be done with them already.

  12. bradleyb123 04/07/2009 at 10:08 AM #

    “Thus why I have given up. Changing Fowler will not change anything. It will just be varying degrees of not winning.”

    I can handle “not winning”. What I can’t handle is not even trying. That’s the way I view our basketball “program” (a term I’m using very loosely here). Like I said in my last post, the day I see us letting the football momentum end, and they pull the same junk there, will be the day I stop giving a dime. I know I’m not a big-time donor, but if they let the last glimmer of hope (football) die, we should all send the message with our wallets that we’re not going to put up with it ANY MORE.

  13. choppack1 04/07/2009 at 10:09 AM #

    Grey – I frankly don’t think anyone is interested in a pound of flesh. Fowler has a bulls-eye on him because he is head of a department that is pretty much a conference joke.

    I won’t speak for BJD, Alpha or anyone, but I’d gladly accept Lee resigning from his AD position and being named “Coordinator of Special Projects” or “Liason to Mary Easely” with the same enthusiasm I welcomed Les Robinson’s departure from our basketball HC position. Frankly, I think the rest of the wolfpack nation would too.

    The good news is that a new AD should have only one coach to keep happy upon his hiring. Think about if a new AD were to walk into a successfully run Athletic Department and the damage he could do by alienating a couple of successful coaches. That’s not really possible in Raleigh is it?

  14. TOBtime 04/07/2009 at 10:15 AM #

    Greywolf, all your points are sound. We need a change in MENTALITY at the top and that change would be manifest in a new AD. However, when you make statements to absolutely piss off the rank and file paying people you aren’t doing yourself any favors. I think Lee has reached a Herb-like point and just needs to move on, not up.
    I think NCSU fans are extremely patient and only want to see PROGRESS being made. Yes, Herb took us to the NCAA 5 years and each time it ended in a miserable, unexplained loss to teams we could have won against. No PROGRESS was being made! TOB teams have looked like crap at the beginning of both years but came around at the end. PROGRESS was/is being made. I know those are waaay simplistic but an AD seeking change and improvement, the right way, would be a welcome sight in my eyes. You are right that an AD will not do it by themselves.

  15. TOBtime 04/07/2009 at 10:20 AM #

    ^Well said bradleyb123. The scary part is, when I stopped giving to the WPC, it was in the middle of the O’Cain debacle, Carter-Finley was hardly ever full and no one seemed to care. It scares the crap out of me that we could go back to that.

  16. PackisRolling 04/07/2009 at 10:30 AM #

    my email to the chancellor:

    Chancellor Oblinger,
    Please do the right thing and execute a regime change in the Athletic Department. Please consider the following as one (of many) data points pointing to this recommendation. Are we as a university committed to athletics success? If so, show me measurable proof of this commitment.

    http://www.statefansnation.com/index.php/archives/2009/04/06/nc-state-all-sports-look-in/

    2008-2009 Standings by sport through April 5, 2009
    Baseball:6-9, 16-15, 9th in the ACC
    Football:Finished 4-4, 6-7, Tied for 5th in the ACC
    Men’s Basketball:6-10, 16-14 10th in the ACC
    Women’s Basketball:5-9, 13-17 tie for 8th in the ACC
    Gymnastics:Finished 1st of 8 (EAGL)
    Men’s Soccer:3-5, 9-9-1, tied for 7th of 9 teams in ACC
    Women’s Soccer:0-10, 8-12, 11th of 11 teams in the ACC
    Softball:3-6, 18-16, 6th of 8 teams in the ACC
    Men’s Swimming and Diving:3-3, 6-3, 6th of 10 teams in the ACC
    Women’s Swimming and Diving2-3, 5-5, 8th of 11 teams in the ACC
    Men’s Tennis:3-6, 9-12, 9th of 12 teams in the ACC
    Women’s Tennis:1-7, 4-14, 12th of 12 teams in the ACC
    Volleyball:3-17, 9-26, 10th of 12 teams in the ACC
    Wrestling:0-5, 4-15-1, 6th of 6 teams in the ACC
    Men’s Golf:N/A; Finished 2nd – 6th in several tournaments
    Women’s Golf:N/A; Finished in bottom half of just about every tournament played
    Track and Field:Men’s Indoor Track – 6th of 12 ACC Teams
    Women’s Indoor Track – 6th of 12 ACC Teams
    Cross Country:Men’s – 2nd of 12 ACC Teams
    Women’s – 10th of 12 ACC Teams
    RifleRifle 1 of 8 (SEARC)
    Rifle 7 of 7 (GARC)

  17. choppack1 04/07/2009 at 10:36 AM #

    TOB you write: “Yes, Herb took us to the NCAA 5 years and each time it ended in a miserable, unexplained loss to teams we could have won against. ”

    While that’s somewhat true, I think that’s true for every team once you get past the first round. To say that Herb needed to go because he wasn’t getting the job done in the NCAAs really oversimplifies things.

    And let’s get things straight – Lee Fowler was NO Herb Sendek. For all of his faults, Sendek positioned the NC State program somewhere close to a relevant level. We didn’t win any titles or scare Duke or UNC – but we weren’t dead last. We were at a level that frankly, the majority of schools in major conferences want to be at. We were like Anthony Michael Hall in 16 Candles – “Kings of the Dipshits”.

    Under Lee Fowler, we’re the equivalent of those guys who looked up to Anthony Michael Hall.

  18. grizzlyman 04/07/2009 at 10:37 AM #

    Alpha, what kind of time frame do you think it will take for things to run there course? Choppack, I would welcome moving Jed to another position and getting a new voice in the AD’s chair. Maybe things would improve maybe not, but it would be a sign that someone gives a damn about what happens with the athletics program. I would rather see Jed move on completely, but small steps, visible progress as TOBTime says. Thats probably the most we can realistically hope for. Change for the sake of change is hardly ever a good idea, but there are times change is due. A lot of Pack fans think that time is now.

    Alpha: I have no idea of the timing. That’s politics far above any insight I have. That sort of thing runs silent and runs deep underwater.

  19. newt 04/07/2009 at 10:39 AM #

    “If they could catch us, we can catch them.”

    That’s the best summary of NC State basketball I’ve ever seen.

  20. TOBtime 04/07/2009 at 10:44 AM #

    Choppack, after I got done laughing I have to admit you’re right. BUT, I did say it was an overly simplistic comparison! I just wanted us to ONE time go down fighting in the NCAA’s and it never happened (maybe the first UConn game?).
    16 Candles is REALLY old school!

  21. BJD95 04/07/2009 at 10:50 AM #

    I would certainly be happiest with Fowler gone completely, but I’d settle for anything that gets him out of being the public face of Wolfpack athletics and completely away from the hiring/firing of coaches.

  22. CStanley 04/07/2009 at 10:56 AM #

    I would just like to be relevant again. My son is only 10 mos. old, but once he’s old enough to follow sports, it would be great for him to have a reason to pull for NC State, like I did growing up.

  23. LRM 04/07/2009 at 11:01 AM #

    Am I the only one that’s noticed we’ve now become a joke even to ourselves?

  24. Rick 04/07/2009 at 11:02 AM #

    The 16 candles analogy for NCSU athletics is right.

    In my work, we are judged on results. We are given expectations and we get a yearly appraisal in which if we meet and/or beat those expectations we get to keep our job.
    Given this impressive list of accomplishments (could you do this bad if you tried?) I can conclude one of the following:
    1) NCSU athletics has no expectations
    2) NCSU has expectations and LF does not meet them
    3) NCSU has expectations and LF meets them

    I used to be in the 2nd category but now am in the third. I think LF meets the expectations placed on him. Which is why I believe we will never have consistent success and any success we do have will be short lived.

    I still want him gone as he is a condescending moron.

  25. chris92heel 04/07/2009 at 11:07 AM #

    alpha, I come around here all the time. dont post a whole lot since most of the discussion around here recently is y’all ‘family biness’.

    I also posted after the unc-state football game this past season. talk about schadenfrude. but I’m sure that doesn’t say anything about me.

1 … 4 5 6 7 8 … 10

Leave a Reply