Coping With Another Hole Title (Updated 9am Tuesday)

09-10 Basketball229

“Our fans are comparing ourselves to Duke and North Carolina. Every program in the country doesn’t do well when you’re compared with those two on a day-to-day basis. I understand that our fans want to be able to compete with them; we all do. But you can be real good on a daily basis and not be better than those two programs.”

Don’t ignore yesterday’s look-in at all sports…but, this morning we have to discuss a little basketball.

Tuesday Update
When NC State gave up basketball in 1990 – the Wolfpack held two National Championships; UNC-CH held two, and Duke held none.

When Lee Fowler was hired as Athletics Director a decade ago – the Wolfpack held two National Championships, UNC-CH held three, and Duke held two.

After ten years of (lack of leadership) from Lee “I know basketball and I have a contract” Fowler – the Wolfpack STILL holds two National Championships, UNC-CH now has five, and Duke now has three.

Great work managing that program, Lee! I could only imagine where we would be if you didn’t ‘know basketball’!

We wrote this highly-trafficked entry when the Tarheels won their National Championship in 2005. We implore you to click on it and give it a read (the charts no longer work) as we see no reason to bust our ass to update it this morning since it still couldn’t be more relevant this morning. The following is a taste:

Good morning, sleepy head!!!

Did you sleep well? Heck, did you sleep at all? Regardless of if you tossed and turned all night, you have awoken to a New World Order!!! Sounds kind of ominous, doesn’t it? No matter, it is true –

You now live in an environment and under a set of circumstances that have LITERALLY NEVER existed as they do today — April 5, 2005. April 7, 2009.

For many, this N.W.O. is nothing that you haven’t felt inside or intuitively known since…oh….about 1995 or so. But, having ‘felt’ it for a decade still may not compensate or serve to ease many Wolfpackers pain this morning. You went to bed last night without letting all of the ramifications of your arch-rival’s newly minted National Championship sink into your system, and you have woken this morning to a landscape that has never existed in the history of NC State’s Basketball program.

As of THIS MORNING, NC State is further behind UNC-CH in National Basketball Titles (and ACC Titles) than we have been at any point in the entire history of college basketball. Additionally, there has never been a day on this earth where BOTH Carolina and Duke held this lead in ACC and National Championships over NC State.

Think about that for a moment…especially you jackasses that constantly degrade our tradition because you can’t grasp its magnitude…and you Fowlerites and Kennellites who openly proclaim that NC State athletics should not strive to contend for Championships or measure to the standards of Carolina and Duke. (I wish that someone would have told us this was NC State’s “not goal” [since we don’t have any goals or measurements] BEFORE we were solicited to pony-up tens of thousands of dollars just to sit in dead arena and watch the college version of the Washington Generals go out and tackle one of the nations worst non-conference schedules on an annual basis.)

[snip]

Lee Fowler is our Athletics Director, and as of THIS MORNING, the Athletics Department that he leads has NEVER, EVER been further behind Carolina’s and Duke’s in championships.

Surely you don’t wonder why this could be the case.

BJD on Monday night
As I have watched UNC play defense all tournament long and dispatch opponents with shocking ease, I have made my piece with Roy Boy getting his second ring. I sure as hell don’t like it, but I can accept it. Suggested coping methods (put yours in the comments):

1) Grudgingly admit that UNC is a worthy champion. Other than Hansbrough’s whiny antics, I have no real disgust for any of their players. They play hard, play together, and keep up an entertaining pace. Contrast that to Deano’s peak years.

2) It will really piss off Coach K. Roy’s run in Chapel Hill is making K so jealous that I believe he would blow Dwon Clifton on TV to sign John Wall. Sorry for the nightmare fuel. As queasy as we will be around 11:28 pm, you can take comfort that at least one man will be even more inconsolable.

3) Feel good for the nice Hole fans that you know. As you know, Hole fans are more prevalent than flies on dogshit in mid-August. Because the sheer numbers are so high, you have to know at least a few that you don’t want to punch. If you’re local, it’s possible a subset of those fans (well, probably all of them) actually went to school there. If you live in Boston, these are probably the same people who pretend that they liked the Patriots before they were good (and strangely don’t know who Steve Grogan is).

That’s all I have. Thank God it will be all over soon, save for the gayest riot you’ve ever seen.

About BJD95

1995 NC State graduate, sufferer of Les and MOC during my entire student tenure. An equal-opportunity objective critic and analyst of Wolfpack sports.

09-10 Basketball

229 Responses to Coping With Another Hole Title (Updated 9am Tuesday)

  1. GAWolf 04/06/2009 at 11:28 PM #

    What makes it more ridiculous… each of their kids (minus Lawson who struggles with interviews) is very articulate and humble. If Roy teaches them to be that way, even better for Roy. Win with humility, lose with grace.

  2. GAWolf 04/06/2009 at 11:30 PM #

    Let’s talk good news: How many go pro/graduate?

    Hansbrough, Lawson, Ellington, Davis, Greene, Frazier…

  3. bluelena69 04/06/2009 at 11:31 PM #

    That was the most bush-league survey I have ever seen. Piss poor. Hell, now I am disillusioned with the across the board quality of everything associated with our athletics department. I have no doubt that Mr. Ed Stack did this survey himself. No disrespect to Mr. Stack, but this is not the type of thing he should be doing. This is the type of thing an organization like the Wolfpack Club hires professionals for. Usable surveys are an invaluable, crucial data collection methodology for something like the Wolfpack Club (surveys are generally worthless, but this is one example whereas it represents a good means of collecting data). Designing a good survey (with well-worded questions that people can actually read) is crucial to the success of these things. This is just awful. I think I just need to make more of an effort to ignore anything associated with this University until we actually try a little harder.

  4. GAWolf 04/06/2009 at 11:33 PM #

    Ellington says: “We’re going to enjoy the crap out of this.”

    Roy: “They picked up some of my bad habits…”

    Then there’s a “spect” to Franklin Street and the students.

    It’s tough not to like what they have going on… how they embrace “it” and nurture it.

    “My rear is going somewhere Wednesday or Thursday… (recruiting) because I love this feeling.”

    We can’t get our AD to do the bare minimum and travel to the Final Four.

    Roy + Carolina = The Perfect Storm.

  5. john of sparta 04/06/2009 at 11:33 PM #

    as you already know,
    coach Roy is SUPER-superstitious:
    meaning that he will NEVER again
    try to win another ACC Tournament.
    therein lies our hope.

  6. packpowerfan 04/06/2009 at 11:35 PM #

    GA – Hansbrough is not articulate at ALL in interviews. My dog could give a more informed, more articulated interview than the great listener does. Other than that, it’s true.

  7. GAWolf 04/06/2009 at 11:36 PM #

    Ed Stack is a super nice guy. And he’s not someone worthy of our complaining. The Wolfpack Club has upheld their end of the bargain… it’s the Athletic Department (a separate entity) that has failed miserably.

  8. GAWolf 04/06/2009 at 11:37 PM #

    He’s not dumb. He’s just awkward. Big difference. Ellington is a shoe maker’s dream. That kid will sell some shoes. Sharp grin, likeable personality, great game.

    I also like the fact that these kids came back to win a national championship and went out and did it. Even as loaded as they are, it’s a tough job to get done. In the world today, there’s much to be said for setting goals, accomplishing them, and sticking to your word.

    I promise you that if this was Duke I would have been able to pick out no less than 10 statements in the post-game interviews that bothered me. I can’t tonight.

  9. packpowerfan 04/06/2009 at 11:55 PM #

    As much as I agree with those statements…I will never ever support that ugly powder blue, or even respect them. I can’t stand a school full of kids that demean our University because of its agricultural background (mooU, CowCollege), then go out and get English and History degrees like the world is demanding jobs in those fields. As I heard from an alumnus a few months back “I spent four years in Chapel Hill getting a degree in history, and that is four years I can never get back…”

  10. packpowerfan 04/06/2009 at 11:56 PM #

    My apologies for being TOTALLY off the topic at hand, which is our inability to win in basketball, and UNX’s inability to lose 14 games in 3 years.

  11. TheCOWDOG 04/06/2009 at 11:57 PM #

    My sources told me to put my money where my brain, not my mouth was since Friday.

    So far, my sources have been right.

    I know that this entry is meaningless. As meaningless as my last when I said,

    ” If you know, they know. “

  12. JeremyH 04/07/2009 at 12:13 AM #

    Ellington more than a spot-up jump shooter?

  13. GAWolf 04/07/2009 at 12:18 AM #

    WRAL just stated they quoted one chick on Franklin St as stating “this is why I came here…for this atmosphere.” When might our administration realize this? It’s no secret that UNC’s applications will go up next year from across the country. Sports matter. Period. Cowdog: You’ve OD’d on Tar Heel. turn off the latenight news bro-man.

  14. packpowerfan 04/07/2009 at 12:21 AM #

    GA – You hit the nail on the head! What is the official figure for App. St. after winning their 3 National Championships? I think I heard something like a 300% increase in applications, from something like 6000 freshman applicants to a neighborhood of 18000. This is off the top of my head, so if someone has the real numbers, I’d love to know them.

  15. bb1983 04/07/2009 at 12:27 AM #

    Lots of emotions tonight – On one hand, UNC wins yet another title we had no shot at. On the other, we keep another title inside the walls of the ACC. Either way, they were good enough to win it and worked hard enough to pull it off. Congratulations to the tarheels, and now we can go back to hating each other.

    codebrown (and others who say we’re a football school) – I’m too young to remember even an NCSU ACC title, but I consider myself reasonably well versed in the history of our athletics program. I am extremely proud of the promise that our football program shows at the moment and hope to see even more improvement in the future. I’ve probably spent more time in C-F Stadium than the RBC or Reynolds. Football season is my favorite time of year. All that aside, we are a basketball school. If we’re looking at historical contribution rather than recent success, we could be the basketball school.

    During the 1930s and ’40s, NC State was regularly beaten with a cold dead fish on the football field by Duke and Carolina. Everett Case was brought to NC State from DePauw in 1946 to take over a different sport. Case won all but 2 conference basketball titles in the remainder of that decade and the entirety of the next. Case was the reason that Thompson Gymnasium was closed for a night due to the overflow of people wanting to watch a game. This turned college basketball from a player’s sport into a spectator sport. Case also fathered the Dixie Classic, which is largely credited with boosting college basketball’s popularity bayond just a regional fascination. Had it not been for a point-shaving scandal, who knows if UCLA could have gained a foothold in the sixties.

    Fast forward to 1974 and the ACC title game between NCSU and Maryland. Only a conference champ could represent the conference in the NCAA tourney. Both MD and NCSU were serious contenders to end UCLA’s monopoly over the title, but only one could make it. I think we all know who did. This event sparked the expansion of the NCAA tournament into the March Madness we know today.

    1983 I think we all know as one of the greatest underdog moments in sports (along side the 1980 hockey team’s victory over the USSR of course). While not as historically significant as the hockey series, it certainly means more to college basketball. Coupled with the video of Charles’ dunk and Valvano running out on the court, this game served to prove the fact that March Madness is about heart, not just raw talent.

    Fast forward again to Valvano’s ESPY speech and his speech in Reynolds after retirement, and you have possibly the most inspiring message ever sent to the sports community outside the game clock.

    The historical contribution of NCSU basketball is impressive.

    Rewind from today’s date, stop in 1987, our last ACC title date. It was our tenth, and the thirtieth played. (Yes, that is one every three years. It has been 22 years since.) UNC also had ten, Duke had six. Duke had never won a national title, UNC had two to match our two.

    It is only since the Durham/CH 91-92-93 three-peat that NC State has fallen by the wayside. Lots of reasons and blame can go around, but we were the better program at that point in my opinion, and we started the race. Unfortunately, we quit the race, and Duke took our spot, and the UNC-Duke rivalry has been the centerpiece of college ball ever since.

    Without belittling the accomplishments of our football program, we are, always have been, and always will be a basketball school. First Carolina caught up to us, then Duke did. If they could catch us, we can catch them. After all, we pulled off ending UCLA’s streak. We just need a work ethic from a group of good administrators who can inspire a work ethic in a group of good players. We have the fans, and we have the coaches.

    Anyway, I’m off the soap box, I’m going to bed.

  16. packpowerfan 04/07/2009 at 12:31 AM #

    bb I’ll drink to that! I’m only 21, though my dad was a junior in Ag. Ed. in ’83. I grew up researching State’s history like it was a class project, and I’m DAMN proud to be a student!

  17. gcpack 04/07/2009 at 12:40 AM #

    ok, ok, I am now ready to see a change with the AD position. Most of you have finallly convinced me. As soon as Fowler goes I would also like to see a new commissioner in the conference. Did anyone see who was seated to the right of Dickie Baddour?
    Yep , baby blue Swofford, right there up dickie’s and roy’s butt. And please don’t give me any of that supporting the conference B.S. My guess is that Little Johnny would not necessarily be there if it was a Clemson, us, or B.C. in the big game. Those from UNC talk the talk about pulling for the conference but I was reminded this weekend by a friend that when Dean Smith was asked by the media about doing well in the tournament at a time when only UNC was left from the conference Dean said he and his team weren’t playing for the ACC, they were playing for the University of North Carolina. In other words they don’t walk the walk.

    The ACC has regressed in basketball strength as it has over promoted, along with ESPN and many other news outlets, the Duke/UNC rivalry. We have a two team conference and everyone else really has been put at a recruiting disadvantage since Johnny boy has taken over.
    (Even though on the surface the two blue teams were the only ones against the expansion that was more PR posturing that Duke & UNC have perfected. Their motto, “to seem rather than to be.” The expansion did nothing to weaken the blue two and they will get all the advantages & breaks as long Johnny Ego is in charge.

  18. James 04/07/2009 at 5:31 AM #

    Hi Guys,

    Putting together a world class athletics program is hard work. Be assured the process has started. The 35 hour work weeks are killing me though. Need some shut eye.

    Sincerely,

    Lee on Lake Gaston

  19. whitefang 04/07/2009 at 5:43 AM #

    Congrats to the Heels. Truely they deserve it. BUT I can honestly say I didn’t watch one second of any NCAA tournament game this year. I didn’t even know who won until I got on SFN this morning. I couldn’t pull for UNC if they were playing against the Iranian national team coached by Kim Jong Ill and Amadinejad was playing point.
    What really gets me is not necessarily the fans that went there – I have a young UNC grad who works for me. Great guy and doesn’t take it too seriously. He even says he gets tired of some of the fans. Contrast that to a guy I saw Sat. at a sandwich shop. I went to HS with this guy. Dumb as a bag of hammers. Didn’t even go to college. He’s got a freaking UNC warm-up suit on complete with a UNC t-shirt underneath the jacket and a carolina hat. Made me want to puke. Now this guy couldn’t find Chapel Hill on a map and he is talking shit the whole time.
    I’m going to the drive-thru window this morning.

  20. Gene 04/07/2009 at 5:57 AM #

    Let’s drop the Carolina is our rival notion. They aren’t our rival. Rivalries involve competitors being able to beat each other at any given time, like Macenroe versus Lendl in tennis, for example.

    We have no rivals. We aren’t competing against Carolina or Duke. We are competing against ourselves. We’re like the kid who struggles at a subject. He’s not competing against the head of the class for the best grade, he’s competing against himself to do better than he did.

    We will never ever be the top of anything anymore.

  21. packer74 04/07/2009 at 6:49 AM #

    Congratulations to Tarheels and Roy Williams. Quote from Animal House “I hate those guys”. Go to hell Carolina!

  22. Cardiff Giant 04/07/2009 at 6:49 AM #

    This morning, Inside Carolina no doubt features a pinned thread featuring UNC’s second national NCAA men’s basketball title in five years.

    This morning, PackPride features a pinned thread threatening draconian punishments for any references to Eve Carson.

    Thank you, Lee Fowler.

  23. Alpha Wolf 04/07/2009 at 7:03 AM #

    ^ That fairly summarizes our state of being these days.

  24. WolftownVA81 04/07/2009 at 7:11 AM #

    ^ I took the survey. Thanks for providing the link. This provided a convenient way to communicate to the WPC and tell them why I quit giving last year (it’s been an incredibly busy year for me.) Here’s my response to the last question on whether I was satisfied with what I get out of giving:

    “I am definitely not satisfied. I use to be a paying Wolfpack Club member. I quit giving this past year because I have become totally disgusted with the mismanagement of our athletics department under Lee Fowler. We have become a joke in the sports world and this is due to the looser mentality that our AD projects “we can’t compete with UNC”. Winning is not important to our administration though we have all the resources needed to compete with the best programs in the country. There is no accountability in Mr. Fowler’s Department. Some of our programs have not been competitive for years. Currently, we are 67th in the Director’s Cup. On top of that, Mr. Fowler has insulted the fan base on several occasions, and regularly says things that embarrass the University. I will not give another dime until he is gone and we have a competent AD who will hold his coaches accountable for their performance. My kids are grown and gone and I have the ability to give much more than I did previously. However, like I said, until changes are made at the top, I will give to other more worthy causes. I love NCSU and am hoping for the day when I can again be proud of its accomplishments in all fields. Change = $”

  25. Rick 04/07/2009 at 7:17 AM #

    I have changed the way I view athletics

    1) I have stopped hating UNC. It may be silly but I do not want my kids growing up like that. Plus it is not like we can beat them.
    2) I have pretty much given up on NCSU athletics. The administration does not care about wins. If they did Fowler would not be here. Thus there is no reason to believe we will ever win again.
    3) I watch more hockey.

    I honestly just don’t really care anymore. Why bother?

    Congrats to UNC. They have expectations and results.

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