Many In Wolfpack Nation Are Saying They’ve Had Enough

To say that Wolfpack Nation is seething mad tonight would be akin to calling the eruption of Mount St. Helen’s in 1980 a loud bang.

It simply doesn’t begin to cover it.  This is not about losing a game in the first round of the ACC Tournament, not even the fact that it is the second year in a row.  This is a loud yell of disgust directed towards what they perceive as over twenty years of collective incompentence not only in men’s basketball but across the board in the executive offices in Brown-Weiseger.

This time, “wait until next year” won’t work.

These are the things being said tonight:

“I’ll be on the phone with the Wolfpack Club tomorrow. If Lee Fowler is going to be around much longer, my 2009 “red white and you” payment just split in half. They will know why.”

and

“At this point, I do not think I will purchase tickets [for basketball] next year. This will be the first time in a long time.

“I’m tired of spending my money which by doing so just enables Lee to stay in the black and keep his job. I’m tired of “sell outs” and thousands upon thousands of empty seats.”

and

“If anyone can look at the performance of Fowler’s hires and defend him, then I would like to meet them and have a conversation. I’m sure the only way they’d be able to do it is with a discussion about being in the black and having such a low budget. That is a loser’s mentality.

perhaps the best summary is this one

We’ve had season tickets every year at the ESA/RBC. I was there when we beat Georgia to open the building. I was there when Brian Keeter couldn’t quite make the shots to score 100 on UNC in the magical 8-win season of theirs. Hell, I remember Mean Gene and Slappy, and the time we beat Duke when it showed.

The sad part? Those are my best memories of NC State basketball. I have that 20th Anniversary video of the ‘83 team, and thats it. I got my picture taken with David Thompson at a women’s game once. My dad was an undergrad in ‘74, and he was in Albuquerque that night in ‘83. For nearly 20 years now, I have sat and waited for my Wolfpack to step back in to this top tier of basketball that I have heard so much about.

I was born in 1989. Four months after the last ACC Title of any kind. Exactly a week after Personal Fouls came out. I know all about the history. I can imagine what it would be like to pull for a relevant team. Hell, my mom went to UNC. Trust me, I’m aware of what it’s like.

[…]

If we ever want to become what we were, and what we deserve to be, now is the time we have to do something. Lee Fowler cares about as much for the health of our athletics department as Dick Baddour does. We need someone in here who cares, and is willing to man up and treat this program with the dignity its earned. Lee Fowler has no right to pilot this ship.

[…]

There is only one thing about NC State that is what it should be, and that’s us. The fans. I don’t care how much the administration insults us or the media derides us. We pay for this program, and god damnit we love and care about this program. Lee Fowler didn’t sell out Carter-Finley 8 years in a row, we did. Lee Fowler didn’t make us average in the top-15 in basketball attendance under Herb, we did. And we, more than anyone else, deserve to be listened to.

Those are excerpts of comments here at Statefans Nation, and they are a perfect reflection of what I have heard from my own friends in person and on the phone following the game.

The situation is very simple and perfectly clear: these feelings are not reflections of “fifty lunatics in chat rooms” or message board commandos trying to stir things up for their own amusement.  These are a large number of responsible, reasonable adults with level heads –many are alumnae, Wolfpack Club donors and season ticket holders who have reached their breaking point.  They are all hard-core supporters of NC State and the Wolfpack teams.  They’ve suffered through thick and thin — and now they are saying that enough’s enough.

In an economic recession this deep, Lee Fowler is playing with fire if he seriously pisses off the rank and file donors to NC State athletics.  Yet another dismissive, vapid statement from him towards his fanbase would likely do just that. If even half of the current donors follow through on their threat to reduce donations or not buy tickets, then the Athletic Department has a very serious problem — and one it cannot ignore. If folks start abandoning their LTRs for basketball (where there is no binding contract to continue payments) and stop buying season tickets, they won’t be able to fill up Reynolds for men’s hoops much less the RBC.

That, obviously, would be a very huge problem for NC State University.  And one that comes at a very bad time, what with folks squeezing every nickel out of every dollar and many worrying about the safety of their jobs.  Not only that, new graduates are entering a job market with roughly a 10% unemployment rate — making many of them an unlikely source to fill the coffers any time soon. Money is tight everywhere and not many have much extra laying around to back a program that they perceive has a leader that they cannot believe in.

In short, Fowler needs to speak quickly, plainly and for a change, without condescension to his real employers: not the Board of Trustees, but the 20,000+ people who get out a checkbook every year and send in their hard-earned money to support the NC State Wolfpack.

AD & Department Fans General NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Non-Revenue

178 Responses to Many In Wolfpack Nation Are Saying They’ve Had Enough

  1. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 12:41 PM #

    That flop should’ve absolutely been called on Green. That was atrocious.

  2. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 12:49 PM #

    Three fouls called on the Holes the entire 2nd half.

  3. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 12:52 PM #

    Unbelievable.

  4. Fenrir 03/13/2009 at 12:52 PM #

    went and got a hair cut… wolfonthehill, on the page were it show your avitar, click on it and confirm.

  5. Garrett 03/13/2009 at 12:53 PM #

    Just wow. On the replay of that jump ball, hansjob literally didn’t have a hand on the ball..both hands were on thompson’s body. Naturally, thats a jump ball and possession unc.

    Uber bullshit.

  6. Alpha Wolf 03/13/2009 at 12:56 PM #

    ^ You expect differently.

    I hope Greenburg lights up ACC officiating in his post-game presser.

    He’s got to be p/o’d big time

  7. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 12:57 PM #

    The better team did not win today. VT was clearly the better team today.

    There is no justice in this league.

    This was a complete gift.

    Easy bein’ a Hole fan.

  8. Fenrir 03/13/2009 at 1:20 PM #

    there has been some voiceing of “bashing” 18 to 22 year olds for their performance on the basketball court. and while i agree with the evaluations i can blame only one person for the lack of hustle and seemingly no basic fundamentals of the game coupled with “chemistry” problems. i blame sidney lowe and staff for the whole circus. we have slipped into the realm of irrelevance in the acc with basketball.
    we who are old enough to have seen and expierenced what nc state basketball once was and find this present history unpalatable. the newest wolfpackers have none of this past history to use as a measuring stick. you can tell a man that a hotdog is a steak until he eats a steak! i’ve had steak and what the current administration is doing is selling hotdogs!!

  9. ADVENTUROO 03/13/2009 at 1:21 PM #

    I don’t BELIEVE the NO CALL and the GIFT TO ROY and the BOYS….

    Psycho T already has his “who me…NOT me…” look on his face.

    Greenburg was LIVID…and I probably yelled too…

    All that missing was kicking the chair…

    If Lefty saw that, he would be PROUD.

    Did it seem ODD to your WP fans that the REF’s TOTALLY IGNORED Seth’s tyrate? It seemed to me like they took one look at each other and said…”OH S***…WHY did WE call a JUMP BALL? Let’s NOT make it worse by T’ing up old Seth….let him get it out of his system now…heard they were having feed problems….maybe the replay will be pixalated and we WON’T get called on the carpet”

    Old Huckaberry Roy was in FINE form…he QUIT talking to the REF’s….He was CHEWING on the team…much like GAAARRRRYYYYY from MD does…

    Will be interesting to see how THIS plays out….watch WRAL’s site LIGHT UP…

  10. Clarksa 03/13/2009 at 1:26 PM #

    Probably had a right to be upset…but that’s the second time Greenburg should have been tossed this year because of his attitude…

  11. 44fan 03/13/2009 at 1:27 PM #

    I gave up a year ago….cancelled my LTR, and my wolfpack club membership…..have not bought and will not buy anything with NC State on it until something changes. I will not pay for another ticket, hat or shirt with NC state on it until Fowler is gone and someone is put in his place who can get the job done. I will always be a NC State fan, but I am done spending my money.

  12. 85Designo 03/13/2009 at 1:31 PM #

    Well I think it is time to start the new ABC Conference all the members of the ACC are invited (will) to join but the Holes. Let Hansblow University be an independent and see how gimmies they get without the rest of us to pee on.

  13. Shadow722 03/13/2009 at 1:31 PM #

    A disappointing end to a disappointing season. It is hard to know where to start.

    Is the problem that NC State has an AD who cannot hire; and/or a BB coach that cannot coach; and/or BB players that cannot play/execute the game.

    I have always believed that if a team lost a game, the other team may have had something to do with it. In our case Merryland had a game plan, and we did not.

    It appears our game plan was to:

    Play our starting point guard Javi only 16 minutes in a “must win game”, when in the prior game he delivers 19 points in 30 minutes in a losing effort. Instead we play a point guard (Mays) for 24 minutes who has not played a minute in the last 9 games. Now Mays had a great game, and gave his full effort, but I cannot understand this subsitution “pattern”?

    Tracy Smith who is our leading scorer in ACC play, but plays only 23 minutes. An injured??? Fells plays 31 minutes and delivers only 4 points, but his sometime replacement CJ Williams plays only 21 minutes but delivers 8 points. Horner plays 29 minutes and delivers 11 points, but shares time with Harris who plays 11 minutes, and delivers 0 points.

    Costner who cannot find the basket without a diagram, plays 18 minutes and delivers whole 5 points. Anybody that has studied basketball for longer than 5 minutes could see that Brandon has had zero interest for the game since oh about spring 2007. Yet he plays…..

    This was not a game plan but round ball by committee. After 20 minutes of ball in regulation any coach would have:

    Determined who came to play today, and who was hot and who was not.
    Determined that good practice performance is NOT => an in game performance.
    Determined who on the opposition team need to be covered and stopped.
    Determined how to break the defense the opposition team was being sucessfull at.

    Instead we did nothing. We did not play, we did not execute, we had no plan.

    Is Thomas injured? Is so why is he on the bench? If injured he should be in a suit and tie behind the bench, not suited up ready to play, If he can play why was he not in the game? Surely he can shoot the ball much better than Simon Harris; or Fells and Costner for that matter. How about TFerg? He can shoot the ball, he has a free ride to a ACC school, can he not play? If your “best” two senior forwards manage only 9 points in 49 minutes of play, cannot the coach find somebody, anybody on that bench that can maybe shoot the friggin basketball into the round metal thingee?

    Did Moses bring the “8 man rotation” down on a tablet? If your best “8” cannot get the brown ball into the metal ring, about trying one of your other pine riders to see if maybe, just maybe they can do better.

    I can take losing. I can take not having the best players. I cannot take lack of effort. I cannot abide by a coach that refuses to use all the arrows in his quiver. I mean this is not a hard game. If player A stinks the court up in the first 20 minutes. Find player B, then C…..until you find something that works. Trying something different when your first plan fails is called coaching. What NC State has chosen is a cluster fuck…..

    After 35 years of rooting for the Pack is it ok if I find another team to pull for? Maybe DOOK or EweNC. At least those teams care about the product they put on he court.

  14. JEOH2 03/13/2009 at 1:52 PM #

    As alums we always speak on how frustrating our program is from our standpoint. Well as a recent alum, I can tell you the students are beginning to grow a sense of apathy for the Basketball program, not frustration or even dislike, but APATHY. Of course there are those who are extremely dedicated to the cause, and I’ll admit that I am genuinely more optimistic then pessimistic about NC State, I love my school. Yet my friends that are still undergrads have very little desire to attend the games, resign the team to lose almost EVERY TIME we step on the court, and many times don’t even care to watch. The other day one of my friends mentioned how tired he was about hearing about the 83 championship, because it didn’t mean anything to him. You see, this all started these past four years, …and now you have a culture of students who can barely recognize a Tommy Burleson or a Rodney Monroe or a Vinny DelNegro or even a Julius Hodge as our legacy of when we were contenders, if not champions. I don’t have the answers because I wish it were as simple as firing Lee Fowler, but the whole culture, our whole stigma has to change. So that may be a good start but when I teach classes of nearly 100 students a day, and I can count on two hands how many are State fans, compared to how many are UNC fans…in RALEIGH…then something has to change and change very soon!

  15. Rick 03/13/2009 at 1:57 PM #

    I was at lunch with several UNC fans. Not a single one argued that was a good call.
    This was right after the Traveler got a touch foul for a three point play. The ACC is a joke and honestly basketball is becoming one as well. When refs decide games there is a problem.

  16. TOBtime 03/13/2009 at 2:00 PM #

    $500 will go, once again, to the WPC the day after foul-up goes. Not before. The sad thing I hate is that Sid will most likely go with the useless pus bag. I know some don’t hold Sid in much regard and I also am starting to question his coaching ability. However, he at least understands what it means to represent NCSU on a basketball court. Sid just can’t get that across to his players.
    I feel like a hypocrite since I originally dropped out of the WPC over the continued mediocrity of MOC and never got back in (kids started coming) while CTC was in Raleigh. I very much support TOB and want to again financially support our athletics. However, if the only vote that counts is $ then withold it I will until change comes. Our AD is almost as much a blight on NC State as chapel hole is on the whole state and I dang sure don’t send money there.

  17. TomCat 03/13/2009 at 2:08 PM #

    Two Words……… Les Robinson. —We’ve seen this entire theatrical act before– about a decade & 1/2 ago. Had to ‘promote’ the Les to get rid of him. Is there a single head coach in the ACC who played for the team they coach?… I applaud Sidney for being a Wolfpack faithful & stepping up on Sendek’s exit when nobody wanted the job. Time to stop playing martyr and go get us a coach. Sid wants to supports the program, have him join the WPC and participate in the search committee for a new HC. Go find a young agressive basketball coach who wants to coach in the ACC. End this painful Charade – now

  18. Wolf Dog 03/13/2009 at 2:09 PM #

    adventuroo You sooo right. Hokies were robbed. UNC had 3 fouls to give with a minute left. Refs were not calling fouls on UNC in 2nd half. Hans walked with the ball a couple of times I noticed and no call. They called a jump ball with Hans clearly “holding” the shooter.

    All I can say is Welcome to the club Hokies!

    Mark Packer (billy Packer’s son) has a sports talk radio show in Charlotte. he been keeping up with the UNC favorable foul situation for years and still challenges anyone in the ACC office to explain it to him.

    According to Packer. UNC took 150 more free throws than their ACC opponents in conference play this year. To give you an idea of how amazing this is. The team that had the second most free throws was Duke at 80. He has been keeping up with this for years and the numbers are astronomically in UNCs favor. The stats this year basically state that the refs are spotting UNC 8 points on average over their opponents every game.

    I would love to see Seth Greenburg go on TV and state he is going to recomend that Va Tech pull out of the ACC unless the ACC can guarantee a level playing field.

    Hard to imagine a team that plays as aggresive as UNC with as many half court traps and full ocurt pressure doesn’t committ fouls. Not too mention to having the most physical, hard charging, aggresive post player according to UNC themselves in the history of college basketball and he does it all without fouling.

    Time someone called the ACC out on the carpet.

  19. ryebread 03/13/2009 at 2:14 PM #

    On player bashing, I tend to agree with choppack. I’ve always felt that if people were continually allowed to give less than 100% effort, then it was the problem of those who allowed it to happen.

    No offense Alpha, but if as a moderator of this site, you feel that calling a player on our team a loaf of pumpernickel bread is the appropriate behavior, then we’re probably not going to see eye to eye on this one. If taking public swipes at graduated players where they have no ability to defend themselves nor chance to show anything more later is something that you think is appropriate, then we’ll also have to disagree.

    I’m fine for saying that player X needs to improve at Y. I’m also fine with talking about specific mistakes, etc., but I’m not fine with big sweeping attacks.

    As the moderator, you represent this site. Like it or not, you have to think about the site’s credibility with every one of your posts.

    Look, I love this site. That’s why I read it and post here. I’m just trying to help it be better and more successful.

    Fowler? Fair game — paid professional. SL and staff? Ditto. Students? Ehh… Maybe I’m just getting soft in my old age.

  20. 85Designo 03/13/2009 at 2:36 PM #

    Wolf Dog,
    Not just VaTech all of us should pull out now and leave the Holes alone playing with themselves and %@$*ing off their buddies at the ACC office. How do you make jumpball call like that and not have a motive. VaTech needs to hire a lawyer. It is time to fix this or start a new conference without them. Dean Smith was the master at working the refs in his favor, now it is the fear of Swafford that keeps the zebra’s wearing baby blue panties.

  21. TheCOWDOG 03/13/2009 at 2:46 PM #

    ” Alpha – My thought on this matter is as follows:

    What’s worse – a player who dogs it or the coach who doesn’t punish the player who dogs it? ”

    First Alpha, it has made me sick that I could not refrain from dogging Costner all year long.

    Chop. You have a very valid point. When Costner re-entered last night I had a freakin’ cow! I knew that as long as Lowe left him in we were doomed to the eventual outcome. I screamed thru the tube for Lowe
    to come to his senses.

    Rye. I did play D1 ( adnauseum peeps ) In fact, 2 sports. It is precisley why everytime I criticized Costner, I somehow felt guilty.
    But it hasn’t stopped me, because it is warranted.

    For the same reason, I question Sid. No coach I ever played for would let those performances go. And as some of you know, I was lucky enough to play for 2 of the best.

    So, what I’m sayin’ Rye, from a players stand point, I don’t think I need that guy on my team. And I’ll not quite figure out what the hell Lowe did last nite playing him like he did.

  22. com state10 03/13/2009 at 2:49 PM #

    Can we please stop yelling about the refs and the biased announcers??!?! VT deserved to lose that game. UNC played well enough to win.

    I hate UNC, but I sure do respect what they do on the court and can’t wait until we can give them a good game.

    I feel like some people watch the games just to catch tyler travel, or the announcers say something nice about the tar heels or their coaching staff so we can jump on them as well. jesus give it up!

  23. Tau948 03/13/2009 at 2:56 PM #

    What I love is how the zebras finally let them play the last couple of minutes (I guess they got tired of pointing and whistling at all the VPI guys) and then pull that jump ball call out of their balloon knots! And, on top of that the hole fans in my office were all complaining about how this loss would have just ruined all their weekend plans – I think probably knitting nut warmers to hang on their chins.

    I grew up in a UNX household and went to my fair share of games at Carmichael. It seemed that the fans were no different than any other fanbase in that they enjoyed a good game and were passionate about their team. With the advent of Dook came a new, more rabid fan, that tended to be on the more extreme side of passionate. Over the last couple of decades, the Holes have complained bitterly about how obnoxious Dook fans are. In that last couple of years, in the midst of their complaining, their attitude has morphed into that of entitlement. They are entitled to winning every game, getting all the 5* recruits, winning the ACC title every year and winning the NCAA every year. That translates into making excuses for losses, complaining when the calls don’t go their way (can’t remember when the last time that was), complaining when they don’t beat Dook by 30 even when they win, etc… I for one much prefer the over-passionate ranting of a Dookie than the crying of a Hole. It is beyond annoying to hear a Hole say, “Yeah it’s a W, but we were not playing well and we should have won by 50 instead of 30…”

    I hate that I have to sugar coat my disdain for UNX around my parents – since their UNX degrees paid for my Engineering degree from State – I wish I didn’t feel that way. From time to time I would pull for them and enjoyed the fact they were winning for the sake of the ACC. But, there are currently very few things, in sports, that give me more pleasure than to see those SOBs get their asses handed to them…I still get orgasmic feelings when I think about what Kansas did to them last year…and, can only hope that they get pummelled into submission by everyone and anyone they play.

    Go Louisville! (I like the colors)

  24. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 3:01 PM #

    ^^Wow. Really?

    I respect them very much (honestly, I do), but if you think they were the deserving team today then you must have been watching a different game than I. And you’re probably in the wrong place to begin with if you don’t want to hear griping about the Holes.

    A bad call is a bad call is a bad call. One early foul on Vassallo in the first half gave him 2 fouls and changed the ENTIRE complexion of the game. I’m not sure you can expect folks to sit on their hands about that type of stuff. VT was cementing control of the game and about to lead by double digits. Instead they trailed at the half. This stuff has a huge impact on a game. I can’t believe you thought they were the better team today. Usually they are. Today they were not.

  25. Rick 03/13/2009 at 3:12 PM #

    “Can we please stop yelling about the refs and the biased announcers??!?! VT deserved to lose that game. UNC played well enough to win.”

    You know nothing about basketball if you believe that. They may have lost but they deserved the opportunity to win that game and it was taken from them.
    Explain how UNC can only be whistled for 3 fouls in an entire half? With the self proclaimed “psycho T” rough housing around, how is that possible?

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