Many In Wolfpack Nation Are Saying They’ve Had Enough

To say that Wolfpack Nation is seething mad tonight would be akin to calling the eruption of Mount St. Helen’s in 1980 a loud bang.

It simply doesn’t begin to cover it.  This is not about losing a game in the first round of the ACC Tournament, not even the fact that it is the second year in a row.  This is a loud yell of disgust directed towards what they perceive as over twenty years of collective incompentence not only in men’s basketball but across the board in the executive offices in Brown-Weiseger.

This time, “wait until next year” won’t work.

These are the things being said tonight:

“I’ll be on the phone with the Wolfpack Club tomorrow. If Lee Fowler is going to be around much longer, my 2009 “red white and you” payment just split in half. They will know why.”

and

“At this point, I do not think I will purchase tickets [for basketball] next year. This will be the first time in a long time.

“I’m tired of spending my money which by doing so just enables Lee to stay in the black and keep his job. I’m tired of “sell outs” and thousands upon thousands of empty seats.”

and

“If anyone can look at the performance of Fowler’s hires and defend him, then I would like to meet them and have a conversation. I’m sure the only way they’d be able to do it is with a discussion about being in the black and having such a low budget. That is a loser’s mentality.

perhaps the best summary is this one

We’ve had season tickets every year at the ESA/RBC. I was there when we beat Georgia to open the building. I was there when Brian Keeter couldn’t quite make the shots to score 100 on UNC in the magical 8-win season of theirs. Hell, I remember Mean Gene and Slappy, and the time we beat Duke when it showed.

The sad part? Those are my best memories of NC State basketball. I have that 20th Anniversary video of the ‘83 team, and thats it. I got my picture taken with David Thompson at a women’s game once. My dad was an undergrad in ‘74, and he was in Albuquerque that night in ‘83. For nearly 20 years now, I have sat and waited for my Wolfpack to step back in to this top tier of basketball that I have heard so much about.

I was born in 1989. Four months after the last ACC Title of any kind. Exactly a week after Personal Fouls came out. I know all about the history. I can imagine what it would be like to pull for a relevant team. Hell, my mom went to UNC. Trust me, I’m aware of what it’s like.

[…]

If we ever want to become what we were, and what we deserve to be, now is the time we have to do something. Lee Fowler cares about as much for the health of our athletics department as Dick Baddour does. We need someone in here who cares, and is willing to man up and treat this program with the dignity its earned. Lee Fowler has no right to pilot this ship.

[…]

There is only one thing about NC State that is what it should be, and that’s us. The fans. I don’t care how much the administration insults us or the media derides us. We pay for this program, and god damnit we love and care about this program. Lee Fowler didn’t sell out Carter-Finley 8 years in a row, we did. Lee Fowler didn’t make us average in the top-15 in basketball attendance under Herb, we did. And we, more than anyone else, deserve to be listened to.

Those are excerpts of comments here at Statefans Nation, and they are a perfect reflection of what I have heard from my own friends in person and on the phone following the game.

The situation is very simple and perfectly clear: these feelings are not reflections of “fifty lunatics in chat rooms” or message board commandos trying to stir things up for their own amusement.  These are a large number of responsible, reasonable adults with level heads –many are alumnae, Wolfpack Club donors and season ticket holders who have reached their breaking point.  They are all hard-core supporters of NC State and the Wolfpack teams.  They’ve suffered through thick and thin — and now they are saying that enough’s enough.

In an economic recession this deep, Lee Fowler is playing with fire if he seriously pisses off the rank and file donors to NC State athletics.  Yet another dismissive, vapid statement from him towards his fanbase would likely do just that. If even half of the current donors follow through on their threat to reduce donations or not buy tickets, then the Athletic Department has a very serious problem — and one it cannot ignore. If folks start abandoning their LTRs for basketball (where there is no binding contract to continue payments) and stop buying season tickets, they won’t be able to fill up Reynolds for men’s hoops much less the RBC.

That, obviously, would be a very huge problem for NC State University.  And one that comes at a very bad time, what with folks squeezing every nickel out of every dollar and many worrying about the safety of their jobs.  Not only that, new graduates are entering a job market with roughly a 10% unemployment rate — making many of them an unlikely source to fill the coffers any time soon. Money is tight everywhere and not many have much extra laying around to back a program that they perceive has a leader that they cannot believe in.

In short, Fowler needs to speak quickly, plainly and for a change, without condescension to his real employers: not the Board of Trustees, but the 20,000+ people who get out a checkbook every year and send in their hard-earned money to support the NC State Wolfpack.

AD & Department Fans General NC State Administration NCS Basketball NCS Football Non-Revenue

178 Responses to Many In Wolfpack Nation Are Saying They’ve Had Enough

  1. Mike 03/13/2009 at 8:48 AM #

    BJD, too funny on the Augie comment. I would rather have Augie than Costner and Fells.

  2. Sweet jumper 03/13/2009 at 8:50 AM #

    According to Sid, Mays played because DeGand was benched for disciplinary reasons (for the second or third time this year). Thanks for DeGand’s lack of restraint or Mays would not have played and we would have been blown out. Degand needs to move on if he can’t observe the rules of the team, especially at tournament time.

    I have heard that many LTR’s are not being renewed for BBall. This is probably the only way to get the point across to the powers that be. Letters can be tossed in the shredder and emails can be deleted, but lost revenue and empty seats cannot or should not be ignored.

  3. LRM 03/13/2009 at 8:52 AM #

    Noah, Pearl Jam’s first album was “Ten” not “11.”

    For the first time in my 30 years, I actually have nothing at all to say about State basketball.

  4. wolfpacktexx 03/13/2009 at 8:54 AM #

    Fowler is in a so called “national search” to head our women’s BBall program. This was a program along with the men’s I took pride in during the 70s,80’s, 90’s… I have no confidence that Fowler can handle this task. We were very fortunate that TOB fell in our laps, Fowler did not make this happen. I have not purchased BBall season tickets since 97. I do support the football program although I am a native of this state and miss a wining BBall program tremendously. I refer to Lee Fowler as “uncle Jed” enough said..

  5. EverettBeez 03/13/2009 at 8:58 AM #

    Crap piled on crap piled on more crap – that was March 12th for me. Ole Miss lost, but I was teaching so the pain was easier, then the Vet finds a tumor on our first and oldest dog, and then I watched that disaster of a State game. When I started flipping around in the last 4 min’s, I consoled myself by remembering that this was a crappy team all year and we topped it off with a crappy tournament game. Crap I tell you. Distance from Raleigh in time and space makes this easier to handle in some ways, it still hurts but I don’t get those awful stomach aches I did 20 years ago when State lost.

    I was gripping about Fowler with my high school buddies the other day, and one of them reminded me how many coaches turned us down in the b-ball search. He summed it up “face it Beez, state is not a quality program.” This is what its come to. I was so mad that I stopped talking about it. Just ended the conversation. When Sid was hired I had doubts. He was not a success in the NBA, he had not coached college – but I want him to be a success, so badly it hurts. I want Towe to be successful too. It hurts, it hurts bad. And so I am glad its over and I can walk away for the rest of the year.

    Give Sid one more year, but he’s got to make real progress. This season was not progress, it was status quo – I don’t feel we are sinking like last year. But when you look out there and 4 players are standing still on offense, you do get a sinking feeling.

    Well, as always BJD, Alpha, Statefan, and everyone else I am overlooking, thanks for running a great blog and let us common folks vent.

  6. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 8:58 AM #

    “it’s too bad for tom o’brien, too. he’s a quality guy, but without good leadership supporting him, i wonder about his prospects for success.”

    ^I seriously hope that Lee Fowler or any of those other buttf*****s aren’t delusional enough to feel like they are the reason TOB got here.

    The fans built the stadium from what it was. The fans fill the seats. The fans helped contribute to build one of the premiere practice facilities in the nation. The fans STAYED and roared when Evans hit Dunlap even in the midst of a completely sh*tty season.

    Any reasonable person could see where the program was under Amato. TOB for sure could – so why leave a fairly good situation at BC for a stagnant program in Raleigh, NC of all places?

    The leadership of Lee Fowler? The notoriously cheap BOT? The administration and faculty that positively HATE athletics and create such a wonderful “together-ness” community on campus? The community leadership that has strived to take away all aspects of a college community and turn the campus into a commuter school?

    TOB can succeed here because WE are here. We’ll keep giving. We’ll keep making sure they’ve got what they need to succeed. We’ll keep showing up and giving an unbelieveable atmosphere for potential recruits. All this in spite of those already mentioned above who appear intent on slowly choking away athletics at this school.

    Of course, they can drive him off – everybody has their breaking point. And we’ll all be dead someday and who’s gonna cheer for the Pack then (and I’m saying that only somewhat tounge in cheek)?

  7. Clarksa 03/13/2009 at 9:02 AM #

    From the ACC Now blog…

    “This N.C. State team was going to go as far as Brandon Costner, Courtney Fells and Ben McCauley could take it. In the end, it wasn’t very far.”

    As someone pointed out, the two constants since Coach Lowe’s arrival have been the coaching staff, and our “Big 3.” We’ll know next year who made the real difference. I know I’m in the minority, but I’m pretty sure we’ll be much better off next year…

  8. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 9:05 AM #

    ^^Sorry to hear about your dog, Everett.

    My dog is the only one I can count on to console me after State plays.

  9. RSP123 03/13/2009 at 9:06 AM #

    I do not post often, but I mentioned a month ago that everything begins at the top. Regarding athletics, we all agree that Fowler has to go. Somebody – anybody with any power (Wendall), please step in like was done with Amato and bring Fowler’s job to an end. As a former basketball coach myself, I have tried to give Lowe the benefit of the doubt. Many times the fan base has no clue what a coach is having to deal with in regard to players that might effect gametime performance. However, I am greatly puzzled by lack of playing time that Mays has got the last several weeks and then for him to have the performance he had last night only begs the question: why was he not used sooner or more often? Also, like several other posters, why did Smith only play 23 minutes when the Terps had no answer for him. We got away from the “big man lineup” even though Mays had begun to penetrate the 3-2 zone. Finally, I am encouraged by the play of some of the younger guys, but for reasons stated above and then some, I am still very apprehensive about the overall ability and vision of Lowe as coach.

  10. ryebread 03/13/2009 at 9:06 AM #

    Guys: Stop beating on the players. They’re 18-22 year olds. While they’re on scholarship, they’re not paid professionals. I thank all the players for their efforts (because even if we think they’re sleep walking on the court, there’s a massive amount of time that goes in that we don’t see), for keeping their noses clean and for hopefully being serious enough about academics to start preparing for life after basketball. There are lots of sacrifices to being a DI athlete — more than most of us will ever know.

    With college athletics, the vast majority of the problems are caused by coaching. Not properly motivated? Coaching. Lacking in fundamentals? Coaching. Can’t make clutch plays? Coaching. Don’t know how to respond when the other team switches things up? Coaching.

    You can argue that coaches can only put players into positions to win and then it is up to the players. If we’d have lost to a “better” Maryland team last night by 1 and had a last second shot for the win but missed, then I’ll take that argument. Instead, I saw an inferior Maryland team (1 good guard, 1 kid who had a hot night and a whole bunch of stiffs) out execute, out play and out scheme us. Swap the players out and Gary would have beaten us like a drum. That to me is coaching.

    If it were the first time this season it had happened, I’d be fine with it. Instead, last night’s game was a microcosm of our entire season. I think in our losses this season, there are probably only 3-4 where we’ve not had a double digit lead at some point and blown it. Heck, in some of our wins, we’ve lucked out and survived those collapses. That to me is a trend and it does not put a positive light on our coaching.

    Some will argue that the players have to make the shots, have to play smart, have to do what the coaches want, etc., but that’s all excuses. College coaches get to recruit and spend a lot of time and money do it. They ultimately get to evaluate a player as much as they want to before inviting them to come play for them. This isn’t high school ball where you get the kids in your school district. This isn’t pro ball where the GM hands you personnel and you have to do what you can with them. This is college ball and if the players you have can’t deliver it is on you as the head coach to go find some that can. We’re now up to a roster of about 75% SL players. Next year it’s 100% and there will then be no more excuses.

    That’s why I’m probably in favor of giving SL one more season despite all the obvious deficiencies. I have always thought college coaches deserve four seasons to make a mark and I still believe that.

    Fowler should be done though. Every day he’s here is one inch further into the grave that we’re burying ourselves in.

  11. Fenrir 03/13/2009 at 9:08 AM #

    would you please give the information on how to add a picture to your online name? again

  12. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 9:14 AM #

    ^Agree 100% with ryebread.

    Fenrir: go to gravatar.com and follow the instructions there.

  13. Wolfman300 03/13/2009 at 9:16 AM #

    I listened to Mark Packer’s show yesterday on the drive home and someone asked if his Southern Fried Football tour would be at the NC State vs South Carolina Thursday Night ESPN game to open our season. He did not say yes or no, but I believe he has to be at that game and there would be no question if not for the administration. He basically said that NC State is one of the most difficult places for them to go. The time limit on how long you can tailgate before a game and the lack of good parking and space for the show were the two main reasons. Our football team is deserving of getting attention and the administration’s overreaction to an unfortunate situation a couple years ago is stopping positive press for the team and school. The current powers that be are stranglng the life out of NCSU athletics.

  14. Astral Rain 03/13/2009 at 9:18 AM #

    In my case, I can live being a NCSU football fan, and forgetting about the basketball.

    Then again I was at State for the last of Les and the first of Herb, and the football wasn’t too bad them compared to the basketball.

    That said, I just don’t know what to say anymore, but we’ll be back cause we’re suckers. The people who have gone from love to hate to indifference are the ones who are gone forever most likely though

  15. EverettBeez 03/13/2009 at 9:18 AM #

    Thanks for the good thoughts wufpup.

  16. Fenrir 03/13/2009 at 9:35 AM #

    thanks for the info, hope it worked!!

  17. packbackr04 03/13/2009 at 9:40 AM #

    does anyone think SId would step back into an assistant coach role with the team?

    Billy Gillespie
    Anthony Grant
    Bob Knight
    Oliver Purnell

    call these men TODAY and hire one of them

  18. com state10 03/13/2009 at 9:42 AM #

    I understand people pulling their financial commitments. I have yet to make a donation really so my opinion I know isn’t taken to seriously by the AD, or many of you.

    Frankly, I DIDN’T expect much more out of the season. I was more looking for improvement off the court than on it, because that always has to come first.

    Sid appears to have better control over the team than he did last year.
    The player, check that, TEAM chemistry seems to be a lot better.

    I am totally with primacyone and Mike on this one. I am relieved more than anything. I hope Costner leaves so we can end this era finally.

    Save this thread somewhere, we WILL have a .500 or better ACC record next year, and be a top 4 seed in the NCAAT in the next season.

    Admins- Is there ever a way to fill out a bracket with the folks on this blog? Have you guys ever done it before and I just missed it? If not I think it’d be a really fun thing to have with everybody here.

  19. partialqualifier 03/13/2009 at 9:44 AM #

    Great, great posts from everyone! This is a great site because just as I am ready to throw in the towel and say fuck it…I come here and see that there are sooo many folks who agree with me. So many in fact, that it rejuvenates me. I realize that there are too many of us out there who love this school and this program too much to just throw in the towel. I have longed quit giving money to this failing athletic department, but I am ready to get back on the train if Lee Fowler is removed.

    So, here is my suggestion. Maybe someone could come up with a phone drive to remove Lee Fowler. I agree that there is no sense in doing anything with any of the coaches until this man is relieved of his duties. As people blogging on a website we can be dismissed as the lunatic fringe. However, if turn that into a voice on the phone..perhaps we can make a difference. NC State is a public institution, meaning that the public has every right to call and voice their concerns. Perhaps we should post the numbers and email accounts of BOT members, Wolfpack Club leaders, and people in the Chancellor’s office. Perhaps we could all place a call every other day until we saw results. We do have a voice, perhaps it’s time to use it.

  20. wufpup76 03/13/2009 at 9:44 AM #

    ^The only thing I don’t like about Billy G. is that he is a hugely condescending a-hole d-bag.

    ^^I see it, Fenrir – so it’s working!

  21. choppack1 03/13/2009 at 9:46 AM #

    This is just one man’s story:

    I consider myself both fortunate and unfortunate enough to be at NC State as we transitioned from a relevant basketball program to a joke. In enrolled in 88, so I was at NC State when Personal Fouls was released, the Witch Hunt began – and we went to the Sweet 16 w/ Fire and Ice, Chucky Brown, Brian Howard and Avie starting, with Kelsey Weems coming off the bench.

    A year later, V was forced out – and we’ve been fumbling around since. As I graduated and started working, I joined the Wolfpack club. I purchased season tickets when Sendek was hired – thinking, we finally got rid of one of the worst ACC coaches in recent memory and we had an up and comer. This feeling was validated in his first year when the team made a run to the finals of the ACC tournament. The next 3 years, some progress was made, but it became obvious it would be a long haul. I gave up my season tickets after the 2001-2002 season. The drive back to Winston Salem was becoming too much of a drain.

    Still, I got the Mini-Packs – and I’d also go to a few other ACC games each year. Basketball became increasingly painful.

    I was hoping that this would end w/ the hiring of Sidney Lowe – and I kept my Mini Pack for the first year. We finished strong, once again making a miraculous trip to the ACC tourney finals. While I had seen lots of red flags in the first year – including seeing the Head Coach go flying by me on I-40 about 2 or 3 hours before tip off against a critical ACC game in Raleigh – the post-season play and recruiting success convinced me that he had learned his lessons and we were in good shape.

    Two years later, I’m not so sure. I still see the same problems I saw in the first year. On the whole, this year the team was much better prepared and executed better, especially out of the gate than his other two. Still, I see just as much that baffles me. Players will play a key role one game, then they disappear. Players are pigeon-holed into one positions. Line-ups appear to be set in stone.

    I am no longer a member of the Wolfpack Club. I still hold football season tickets – and I have been to one game in Raleigh in 2 years.

    It should bother our athletic department that a guy who goes to every home football game and a few on the road each year has stopped going to basketball games all together. It bothers me that when I let my Wolfpack Club membership expire I received no phone calls asking why.

    But hey, I’d like to thank them for helping me reprioritze my life. I’ve got a 14 month old son now, and let’s just say a) there’s no issues budgeting time for him and b) he won’t be raised a die-hard state fan.

  22. Wolfpack_1995 03/13/2009 at 9:50 AM #

    We can’t waste our time bashing Sid or the players.

    For real CHANGE to happen the AD, Chacellor, & BOT need to be continually questioned.

    They are the head of the SNAKE!

  23. Iremember87 03/13/2009 at 9:50 AM #

    I’ve been a member of the wolfpack club for 21 years. I arrived at NCSU in August 1983. I watched us win it all in ’74. I watched us beat Georgia to go to the finals from a beach house in Cherry Grove when Easter/Spring break meant something. People were writing “Go Pack!” on their bed sheets and hanging them from decks and balconies on Ocean Drive.
    I was in Carter Finley Stadium for the first football game of the 83 season when the whole stadium erupted with a standing ovation before the game had started…Lorenzo Charles was walking down the steps to take his seat in the East stands.

    I remember these things like they were yesterday. My 16 year old son is a huge pack fan. It’s a shame “this” is what he has to remember.

  24. Rick 03/13/2009 at 9:51 AM #

    “I was gripping about Fowler with my high school buddies the other day, and one of them reminded me how many coaches turned us down in the b-ball search.”

    While this is the perception. The reality is far different.

    Someone “in the know” can give more detail but form what I remember Barnes and Cal are the big turn downs. After that it is a goat rodeo of coaches “pulling their names out”, not able to be bought out and never should have been approached.
    Name one top mid major that was approached and turned us down.

  25. packbackr04 03/13/2009 at 9:55 AM #

    forgot to add Al Skinner to that list

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