Day of roster changes for Wolfpack BBall (3/24 Update @ 12pm)

RALEIGH, N.C. – NC State head men’s basketball coach Sidney Lowe has announced that redshirt juniors Brandon Costner and Trevor Ferguson will forego their final year of eligibility, and not return to the Wolfpack in 2009-10.

Joe Giglio at ACCNow has a more on the roster changes at this link. He also discusses the Wolfpack’s new recruit – Josh Davis – that was already being discussed in our comments section.

Davis, a 6-5 forward, is a “tweener,” Telep said, who will add frontcourt depth for the Wolfpack, which lost Costner, a versatile forward who decided to go pro on Monday.

“They added a really nice player, with great character, who wanted to be a part of the program,” said Telep, who has Davis rated as a two-star prospect.

Additionally, Ken Tysiac added the following:

Davis averaged 25.7 points and 12 rebounds per game this season as a senior. He had been considering UNC Wilmington and had scholarship offers from Gardner-Webb and High Point. Seton Hall’s staff also wanted Davis to make a campus visit, Clemons said.

“He’s always wanted to go (to N.C. State),” Clemons said. “He always talked about N.C. State. That was his school. He worked hard enough, and was able to get an offer.”

Clemons said Davis can score on the block as a power forward and is skilled enough to play small forward.

As our readers pointed out in the comments section, there are some pros and cons to offering/accepting Davis’ commitment. I must admit I am a little perplexed by the use of the scholarship and also a little concerned at the message of potential desperation that the scholarship sends. To be very clear – I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – but, the addition of a local kid (Athens Drive HS) that is clearly not ACC caliber talent could potentially mean that the use of the scholarship is ‘flexible’. I can only hope that *potentially* Davis gets to use the scholarship as long as the program does not need it for another, highly-rated player in this class or the future.

By all accounts, Davis is kid of high character who wanted to be a part of the program. He loves NC State and exhibits true heart and passion on the court. (Certainly something that has been lacking from our program for a long time). He averaged over 25 points a game in high school and was considered as good or better of a player than the two ‘stars’ in his conference – Earnest Ross (Auburn signee) and Garrius Adams (Miami signee).

Davis is described as a very athletic, but undersized ‘hustle player’ akin to a Simon Harris &/or Johnny Thomas (who is already on the Wolfpack’s roster). He has been recruited to play the wing forward position at State.

But, at 6’5 he not a ‘tweener’ for the only position that existing skills set supports – power forward – as his outside shooting is weak. There seems to be some debate if Seton Hall was truly looking at Davis and it appears that State ‘beat’ Gardner-Webb, Charleston Southern and High Point for Davis.

There is most definitely a fit for a Josh Davis within NC State’s Basketball program; but, I am not necessarily convinced that there is an ideal fit for Josh Davis within the current state of the Wolfpack’s program with the current composition of our roster and scholarship spacing. In light of Johnny Thomas’ presence on the roster and sophomore status, it is fair to ask the question if we have ‘over-recruited’ the ‘undersized, high character, sleeper role on the wing’. As one of our readers said, “I hope someone knows more than anybody else here or gets this kid on the juice but this seems strange even by our standards.”

Much is made about State’s struggles and needs at the point guard position…and, Ryan Harrow may be scheduled to arrive in Raleigh one year too late for Coach Lowe. But, I see an even more glaring deficiency on the Wolfpack’s roster after the departure of Brandon Costner – NC State desperately needs some size, heft and toughness in the post. Despite the addition of Richard Howell in the 2009 recruiting class, an ‘ideal’ candidate for one of the Wolfpack’s remaining scholarships would be a junior college big man – preferably a true center of close to 7 feet – who can defend, block shots and rebound. Additionally, this would be ideal for current and future scholarship spacing needs.

Of course, there is still a very small chance that NC State pulls a rabbit out of the hat and can land the nation’s top remaining recruit, John Wall. Wall’s presence may not only help boost next season’s performance, but it would also send a message to other top recruits that NC State is a place to be. (Not to mention its potential impact on re-solidifying CJ Leslie’s commitment. Oddly, landing Wall may not only be great for next year’s performance, but also for the importance of long term spacing of scholarships for the program.

Looking Forward
If State is unable to ultimately land John Wall, I agree with Giglio’s assessment of next season’s line-up:

On paper, State’s starting lineup looks like: Javier Gonzalez at the point, Brown at the 2-guard, C.J. Williams at small forward, Howell at the 4 and Smith at center.

Off the bench State has guards Julius Mays, Farnold Degand and Wood. At forward, Dennis Horner and Johnny Thomas are the other returning scholarship players, plus Davis.

Additionally, Ken Tysiac has added a great blog entry about the Wolfpack’s prospects next year that can be seen here.

When you look at the roster the Wolfpack has returning, it’s impossible to deduce that the team will be better off without Costner and reserve guard Trevor Ferguson, who also is leaving.

[snip]

As a whole, this roster will not scare North Carolina when it gets off the bus next season at the Smith Center. Against the rest of the ACC, N.C. State might hold up OK because there is a lot of backcourt talent leaving from the traditional middle-of-the-pack schools.

Toney Douglas, Tyrese Rice and Jack McClinton all were seniors, and Maryland’s Greivis Vasquez has already announced his intention to test the NBA waters.

But hoping the competition falls back to N.C. State’s level is not a where the Wolfpack hoped to be in Sidney Lowe’s fourth season.

Coach Sidney Lowe’s incoming recruiting class might turn out to be his best yet. But the members of his past classes will be sophomores and juniors next season comprising the bulk of N.C. State’s roster. Lowe’s initial difficulties gaining a foothold as a recruiter after coming to N.C. State from the NBA look like they will come home to roost next season.

Projected 2009-2010 NC State Basketball Roster

Senior Class
(1) Dennis Horner (F)
(2) Farnold Degand (PG)

Junior Class
(3) Javi Gonzalez (PG)
(4) Tracy Smith (4F)

Sophomore Class
(5) Johnny Thomas (Wing)
(6) Julius Mays (PG/SG)
(7) CJ Williams (Wing)

Freshman Class
(8) Scott Wood (Wing)
(9) Lorenzo Brown (PG/SG)
(10) Richard Howell (PF)
(11) Josh Davis (WF)
(12/13) Potential scholarships still available

2010 Commits
(12) Ryan Harrow (PG)
(13) CJ Leslie (hopeful)
(1) Departure of Dennis Horner if no other scholarships issued for 2009 class
(2) Departure of Farnold Degand if no other scholarships issued for 2009 class

2011 Commits
(1) Departure of Javi Gonzalez
(2) Departure of Tracy Smith

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217 Responses to Day of roster changes for Wolfpack BBall (3/24 Update @ 12pm)

  1. blackdom 03/24/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    Hate to burst this urban legend .It is true his dad was Frank Sr.and was his hs coach on long island which is where Jimmy V was from , and whose dad was also a hs coach on the island.
    I played against Tom’s older brother FrankJr. Tom was highly sought after player in hs.
    I am not sure who contacted who but that is the connection I am sure Tom’s dad had a big say and him coming to school here.
    To campare Davis to Gugs is a stretch.

  2. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:49 PM #

    Lemme phrase that a different way. Dick Sheridan and his staff used to be REALLY good at finding underappreciated talent. They’d get guys that NO ONE wanted and they’d be quality players for us.

    When Sheridan left and some of his assistants moved on, they got replaced with guys who weren’t as good at evaluations. So we got the same crappy recruits…only they didn’t have big upsides.

    There were a few exceptions. Robbie Caldwell was, and still is, great at finding those guys. He’s still doing it at Vandy.

    But for the most part, the crappy recruits that O’Cain brought in actually WERE crap.

    If Lowe had a long history of finding untapped lodes of talent, I’d give him the benefit of the doubt.

    He doesn’t. So he can bite me.

  3. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:50 PM #

    V tells that story about Googs in his book. I believe it.

    I just don’t think that bringing in the lowest-ranked recruit in the ACC each year is a recipe for success.

  4. VaWolf82 03/24/2009 at 12:52 PM #

    However, the bottom line is the same. Lowe needs to dance next year.

    He needs to if he wants to quiet the internet critics (and keep the media out of it). Based on past history, LF’s criteria will be quite a bit lower. The real question is, what criteria have the movers/shakers in the WPC set? Once again based on past performance, I suspect that their criteria will be lower than yours as well.

    But even though State’s major supporters have typically shown more patience than many other schools, a horrible, horrible year (like 07-08) would probably not be tolerated. My guess (based on virtually nothing) is that the NIT and a good recruiting class for 2010 would keep the big money donors happy for at least another year.

  5. Afterglow 03/24/2009 at 12:54 PM #

    It’s so uncommon to find a Gugs in the rough. I remember watching Gugliotta transform from that 6’4” guard into his 6’10” power forward frame.

    The difference here is that even though Gugliotta didn’t necessarily have the gift to play guard at an ACC level, he had all the fundamentals that a good shooting guard should have to play competitively at division 2. Gugliotta is one of those rare kids who hit a major growth spurt. And all the while, growing right along, he maintained all the fundamental abilities that he had: ballhandling, shooting and defense. He (who was division 2 fare at 6’4”) changed into a formidable opponent because he was able to maintain his skill set at 6’10”.

    Not saying that this kid can’t be the next Gugliotta but… he needs Gugs type skill set first.

  6. LRM 03/24/2009 at 12:57 PM #

    Ah, the dichotomy of the State fan: full of despair yet accentuating the positives when there are none.

  7. Noah 03/24/2009 at 1:09 PM #

    Afterglow makes an excellent point.

  8. Sweet jumper 03/24/2009 at 1:19 PM #

    Great point, Afterglow. The late growth spurt is definitely an advantage because it allows the player to develop guard skills and good shooting technique. The guys that spurt in the 6th and 7th grade usually do not develop these skills to a significant degree because they are forced to play inside in practice and in games at an early age. Does Gugs have a son? lol

  9. BJD95 03/24/2009 at 1:26 PM #

    ^ Assuming the growth spurt doesn’t kill their shooting touch. I am by no means a D-1 caliber athlete, but I did grow about 7 inches my junior year of high school, and 2-3 more over the next 18 months. I became a defender/rebounder/fouler in Carmichael Gym pickup games, because I never had any outside shooting touch again.

  10. BladenWolf 03/24/2009 at 1:29 PM #

    “My guess (based on virtually nothing) is that the NIT and a good recruiting class for 2010 would keep the big money donors happy for at least another year.” – VaWolf82

    This is very disheartening because it is probably very accurate. It is disturbing that the WPC continues pouring in the money (me included) when the product received is “not what we paid for”.
    Until the dollars dry up and the big boys take notice, Uncle Jed will stay on (even if Lowe is asked to leave) and the life of WOLFPACK NATION will continue to trash about in mediocrity.
    I’ll give Lowe another season but want Foulup gone immediately. Change has to begin with the AD.

  11. BJD95 03/24/2009 at 1:32 PM #

    Whatever the administration does, this forum is going to be ablaze with criticism if Lowe doesn’t dance in Year Four.

  12. Wolfpack_1995 03/24/2009 at 1:33 PM #

    As Noah referenced Sid is now “fishing” in waters for recruits that no one wants.

    If this does not add to the death spiral I don’t know what does. How in the hell is Sid going to bring a team/future teams to the NCAAT must less compete in the ACC with bottom tier recruits.

    Davis would be a great fit if we were adding on the a Wall/Favors/Cousins class. But we aren’t.

    I guess Sid is going for broke. He will try to win/save his job with so called “State effort” players.

  13. old13 03/24/2009 at 1:33 PM #

    “Change has to begin with the AD.” Agreed. But it probably has to start higher to change the AD.

  14. packalum44 03/24/2009 at 1:41 PM #

    The fact that we are so desperate as to be relying on freshmen in Sid’s 4th season is the real travesty. The guys Sid brought in so far have not developed at all (from coaching at least).

    We are screwed. Doesn’t matter if Sid brought in the #1 class in the country. He would F it up. Dino just effed up a top-3 class where only one guy was good enough to play. Hell, they tried to red-shirt 5-star Ty Walker but he refused. Its hard for good coaches to get output from freshmen much less Sid Lowe.

    Believe what you want but we are losing 3 of our best 4 players and didn’t even get into the NIT. How do I know they were 3 of our 4 best??? B/C they wouldn’t have effing started if not. Sid is stupid but he isn’t that stupid! So we expect Howell to replace Costner/McCauley and Brown to replace Fells??? Not only replace them but be better than them! Please. We are screwed more ways than Jenna Jameson was by her Stepdad.

  15. Pack Leader 03/24/2009 at 1:42 PM #

    Ok for people who say this was a bad pick up, what exactly would you like to see Sid do different?

    Find the 5 star recruits who are left over and still looking for a home? there are none.

    Not give away anymore scholarships, hold on to what we have and pray we get some top tier recruits next year?

    Throw in the towel next year and just bank on “next year”?? Sid could do that….

    im not saying davis is a program changer at all but

    WHAT EXACTLY WOULD EVERYONE LIKE SID TO DO RIGHT NOW? IF YOU WERE SID, WHAT WOULD YOU DO???

    Is there a Correct and Incorrect move right now? clearly things havnt worked out as far as our top level recruits but we still are missing 2-4 players for us to compete next year. To me it looks like there isnt much talent left over and the best thing we can do is pick up the best available and try to mold him into something more…..

  16. pakfanistan 03/24/2009 at 1:47 PM #

    To anyone not an NC State fan who might be reading this thread:

    Please don’t take our comments at face value.

    We have 25 years worth of sand in our collective vagina and only one post season shower to wash it out. As such, every recruit, every game, every time out, is life or death to us right now.

    We love all of our players, even when we hate them, and all of our collective negativity can be wiped away with one good game, or even one great play.

    I don’t understand why we can’t take a wait and see approach.

    What purpose do statements like this serve?

    To be very clear – I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – but, the addition of a local kid (Athens Drive HS) that is clearly not ACC caliber talent

    Emphasis mine. Why can’t we just have reservations, why do we have to make statements claiming complete ignorance and complete assurance in the same sentence? “Now, I’ve never seen him play, but I’m sure he sucks.” Great!.

    Why do we have to operate in absolutes? Why not lay out a set of criteria that state what we think we were missing, and how those things should be corrected.

    Here’s my list:
    1. Conditioning
    From what I saw this season, conditioning was our limiting factor. Blown leads in the second half, unable to stop people on defense, scoring droughts? Some people claim (Coach Lowe, unfortunately) that we weren’t mentally tough enough, but Vince Lombardi said, “Fatigue makes cowards of us all.”

    2. Zone Offense
    Swing it around the perimeter isn’t going to cut it. It’s a start, but not nearly enough. From what I saw, when we really struggled against the zone, four people lined up around the 3 pt line and tried to swing the ball around to open up the post.
    We need people to penetrate or motion off the ball on offense to change passing angles.

    If we can make progress in these areas, without losing ground we’ve already covered, I’ll be satisfied.

  17. Justin Gainey 03/24/2009 at 1:47 PM #

    Do you think Russel Wilson can play basketball too? haha

  18. haze 03/24/2009 at 1:51 PM #

    Long story short, Davis looks to be an athletic, character kid who will LIKELY be a project at the ACC level. I love hustle guys, so I’m really happy for the kid and I sincerely hope he blossoms like Gugs and gets a great education.

    That aside, in offering Davis, the most obvious explanations are that the NC State staff is nearly out of ’09 options AND that 2010 is too long to wait for the help they need.

    In essence, they are taking a low-percentage shot with a Spring recruit. Like a 30ft jumper at the buzzer, sometimes you have to take these shots. Still, that your taking them, usually means that you aren’t winning the game.

  19. Greywolf 03/24/2009 at 1:54 PM #

    “If history is any sort of guide, the odds are that this kid will never contribute. Even if he does eventually become a quality player…he isn’t going to do it next year. And right now, that’s what we need.”
    `
    Noah, You sound as if you think, right now, there are uncommitted recruits out there for the plucking. This isn’t an either or deal. Assuming that history is some sort of guide, what, pray tell, history are we to look at to predict that THIS kid will never contribute. Is it that he didn’t play AAU ball? Is it that he had a 7″ growth spurt from his jr to sr year. Perhaps instead of sending assistants out or evaluating film or video to evaluate talent, Sid hire a historian as his recruiting cooridinator?
    `
    I for one think finding this kind of guy, like TOB finds OL prospects who can grow into the size he heeds, is what Sid might have to do here until we are once again established.
    `………………………
    I hope he doesn’t find the 7-0 dominating center to come here along with Wall — players who could succeed with Les Robinson coaching them. Let’s see what Sid can do with reasonable sized athletes with fairly good skills. Can he win with lessor talent but athletes who can run his offense and defend. A Wall type PG and a giant would hide almost any coach’s lack of ability to coach.
    `
    We didn’t fire Sid, so the mental masterbation some of us are engaging in is ludicrous. Who gives two shits whether or not some coach who wouldn’t want to come here anyway is hired before we get a chance to be turned down and embarrassed on the national stage — unless you like imaging your nuts are being crushed. We’re married to Sid for another year. Checking out the available porn stars as possible bedmates is somewhat unproductive, don’t you think.

  20. Afterglow 03/24/2009 at 1:57 PM #

    I guess Pack Leader… have a back up plan. Don’t be so linear as a coach in your recruiting. Yeah, recruit the five star guy at point guard but also look at others in case that one doesn’t pan out. Scholarships aren’t like Time Outs at the end of a game-you can take them with you.

    Maybe they’re doing this but it sounds all too familiar-the old, put all your eggs in one basket scenario. Not that I expected to hit on all of the big-time names we went after. Granted, Lowe got a couple of good guys in. It just feels like the staff should have been mining for a formidable point guard (and knowing what they probably knew about Costner) a big man as well and they should have been looking all over the place. As I said before, maybe they’ll pull threw-but it sounds all too familiar.

  21. packalum44 03/24/2009 at 1:58 PM #

    ^ What Sid is unintentionally doing is wasting a scholarship which in turns makes the job more unattractive to other coaches when his ass gets canned next year.

  22. Clarksa 03/24/2009 at 1:58 PM #

    “Whatever the administration does, this forum is going to be ablaze with criticism if Lowe doesn’t dance in Year Four.”

    Just like Years 2 & 3…

  23. primacyone 03/24/2009 at 2:09 PM #

    Been There / Done That: http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=926443

    I posted for the Georgetown information, but there is a C J Leslie mention.

  24. Pack Leader 03/24/2009 at 2:09 PM #

    The problem with finding another PG is we have one ready to play in Georgia. Harrow averaged over 30pts and close to 10 assists a game as a junior in his first full year in a big confrence. Sid has been very vocal that he is the future at PG when he gets here with his fast up-tempo style.

    So to say that state should spend one of their scholarships on a PG doesnt really make sence. We already have 3 true point guards on the team and 2 incoming freshman with point guard experience. If instead of Davis we had picked up a PG that would give us 5-6 point guards on a team next year, none of them really being the guy sid wants.

    I totally agree with afterglow, a backup plan is def what sid needs. Im just afraid we have let to many intrested mid level recruits get away. our backup plan at this point its pretty much what we are doing… low ranking players who hopfully has more upside than people think.

    There is no way we are the only people in the world who see a gapping whole in the big men. Sid knows this. Im just not sure if he wants to offer a tall player that he knows wont have the talent to make it in the ACC. been there done that.

    Another thing that bothers me is when people say sid needs a recruiting expert to help him find talent. We have one of the best in the nation on our staff in larry harris. he continues to bail out the pack with our top recruits year in and year out. ie Scooter Sherril, Simmons, Hodge, Costner, Hickson, Brown all top talent in the nation…..

  25. Classof89 03/24/2009 at 2:11 PM #

    I don’t have to know “what I would do” in order to reach the conclusion that what the current staff did/is doing isn’t working…

    So Noah, you mentioned a rumor the other day about Lowe trying to get his old job back. What do you think the chances are he bails of his own accord this summer when the NBA coaching carousel gets going? This level of failure can’t be all that much fun…

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