Day of roster changes for Wolfpack BBall (3/24 Update @ 12pm)

RALEIGH, N.C. – NC State head men’s basketball coach Sidney Lowe has announced that redshirt juniors Brandon Costner and Trevor Ferguson will forego their final year of eligibility, and not return to the Wolfpack in 2009-10.

Joe Giglio at ACCNow has a more on the roster changes at this link. He also discusses the Wolfpack’s new recruit – Josh Davis – that was already being discussed in our comments section.

Davis, a 6-5 forward, is a “tweener,” Telep said, who will add frontcourt depth for the Wolfpack, which lost Costner, a versatile forward who decided to go pro on Monday.

“They added a really nice player, with great character, who wanted to be a part of the program,” said Telep, who has Davis rated as a two-star prospect.

Additionally, Ken Tysiac added the following:

Davis averaged 25.7 points and 12 rebounds per game this season as a senior. He had been considering UNC Wilmington and had scholarship offers from Gardner-Webb and High Point. Seton Hall’s staff also wanted Davis to make a campus visit, Clemons said.

“He’s always wanted to go (to N.C. State),” Clemons said. “He always talked about N.C. State. That was his school. He worked hard enough, and was able to get an offer.”

Clemons said Davis can score on the block as a power forward and is skilled enough to play small forward.

As our readers pointed out in the comments section, there are some pros and cons to offering/accepting Davis’ commitment. I must admit I am a little perplexed by the use of the scholarship and also a little concerned at the message of potential desperation that the scholarship sends. To be very clear – I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – but, the addition of a local kid (Athens Drive HS) that is clearly not ACC caliber talent could potentially mean that the use of the scholarship is ‘flexible’. I can only hope that *potentially* Davis gets to use the scholarship as long as the program does not need it for another, highly-rated player in this class or the future.

By all accounts, Davis is kid of high character who wanted to be a part of the program. He loves NC State and exhibits true heart and passion on the court. (Certainly something that has been lacking from our program for a long time). He averaged over 25 points a game in high school and was considered as good or better of a player than the two ‘stars’ in his conference – Earnest Ross (Auburn signee) and Garrius Adams (Miami signee).

Davis is described as a very athletic, but undersized ‘hustle player’ akin to a Simon Harris &/or Johnny Thomas (who is already on the Wolfpack’s roster). He has been recruited to play the wing forward position at State.

But, at 6’5 he not a ‘tweener’ for the only position that existing skills set supports – power forward – as his outside shooting is weak. There seems to be some debate if Seton Hall was truly looking at Davis and it appears that State ‘beat’ Gardner-Webb, Charleston Southern and High Point for Davis.

There is most definitely a fit for a Josh Davis within NC State’s Basketball program; but, I am not necessarily convinced that there is an ideal fit for Josh Davis within the current state of the Wolfpack’s program with the current composition of our roster and scholarship spacing. In light of Johnny Thomas’ presence on the roster and sophomore status, it is fair to ask the question if we have ‘over-recruited’ the ‘undersized, high character, sleeper role on the wing’. As one of our readers said, “I hope someone knows more than anybody else here or gets this kid on the juice but this seems strange even by our standards.”

Much is made about State’s struggles and needs at the point guard position…and, Ryan Harrow may be scheduled to arrive in Raleigh one year too late for Coach Lowe. But, I see an even more glaring deficiency on the Wolfpack’s roster after the departure of Brandon Costner – NC State desperately needs some size, heft and toughness in the post. Despite the addition of Richard Howell in the 2009 recruiting class, an ‘ideal’ candidate for one of the Wolfpack’s remaining scholarships would be a junior college big man – preferably a true center of close to 7 feet – who can defend, block shots and rebound. Additionally, this would be ideal for current and future scholarship spacing needs.

Of course, there is still a very small chance that NC State pulls a rabbit out of the hat and can land the nation’s top remaining recruit, John Wall. Wall’s presence may not only help boost next season’s performance, but it would also send a message to other top recruits that NC State is a place to be. (Not to mention its potential impact on re-solidifying CJ Leslie’s commitment. Oddly, landing Wall may not only be great for next year’s performance, but also for the importance of long term spacing of scholarships for the program.

Looking Forward
If State is unable to ultimately land John Wall, I agree with Giglio’s assessment of next season’s line-up:

On paper, State’s starting lineup looks like: Javier Gonzalez at the point, Brown at the 2-guard, C.J. Williams at small forward, Howell at the 4 and Smith at center.

Off the bench State has guards Julius Mays, Farnold Degand and Wood. At forward, Dennis Horner and Johnny Thomas are the other returning scholarship players, plus Davis.

Additionally, Ken Tysiac has added a great blog entry about the Wolfpack’s prospects next year that can be seen here.

When you look at the roster the Wolfpack has returning, it’s impossible to deduce that the team will be better off without Costner and reserve guard Trevor Ferguson, who also is leaving.

[snip]

As a whole, this roster will not scare North Carolina when it gets off the bus next season at the Smith Center. Against the rest of the ACC, N.C. State might hold up OK because there is a lot of backcourt talent leaving from the traditional middle-of-the-pack schools.

Toney Douglas, Tyrese Rice and Jack McClinton all were seniors, and Maryland’s Greivis Vasquez has already announced his intention to test the NBA waters.

But hoping the competition falls back to N.C. State’s level is not a where the Wolfpack hoped to be in Sidney Lowe’s fourth season.

Coach Sidney Lowe’s incoming recruiting class might turn out to be his best yet. But the members of his past classes will be sophomores and juniors next season comprising the bulk of N.C. State’s roster. Lowe’s initial difficulties gaining a foothold as a recruiter after coming to N.C. State from the NBA look like they will come home to roost next season.

Projected 2009-2010 NC State Basketball Roster

Senior Class
(1) Dennis Horner (F)
(2) Farnold Degand (PG)

Junior Class
(3) Javi Gonzalez (PG)
(4) Tracy Smith (4F)

Sophomore Class
(5) Johnny Thomas (Wing)
(6) Julius Mays (PG/SG)
(7) CJ Williams (Wing)

Freshman Class
(8) Scott Wood (Wing)
(9) Lorenzo Brown (PG/SG)
(10) Richard Howell (PF)
(11) Josh Davis (WF)
(12/13) Potential scholarships still available

2010 Commits
(12) Ryan Harrow (PG)
(13) CJ Leslie (hopeful)
(1) Departure of Dennis Horner if no other scholarships issued for 2009 class
(2) Departure of Farnold Degand if no other scholarships issued for 2009 class

2011 Commits
(1) Departure of Javi Gonzalez
(2) Departure of Tracy Smith

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217 Responses to Day of roster changes for Wolfpack BBall (3/24 Update @ 12pm)

  1. Rochester 03/24/2009 at 11:58 AM #

    The Big 3 got ripped for lack of heart and hustle, now Josh Davis gets ripped for only being heart and hustle. Sid gets ripped for not recruiting in-state players, Josh Davis is an in-state player. We bemoan the fact that no kids grow up wanting to play for NC State, Josh Davis grew up a State fan and wants to play for us.

    I’m glad he committed, and I have a hunch some people here who are bashing him now will be glad to have him for the next four years.

  2. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:01 PM #

    Noah, Im all for sarcasm and smart ass comments, but ill follow your line of thought. ok so according to you, none of our freshman will be able to contribute more than a few bench mins a game.

    Yeah, that would be a fair point to make…except I didn’t say that. I think Lorenzo Brown will HAVE to play a lot early on. Hell, some people are talking about him having to start at point guard (when he’s a shooting guard) from the beginning.

    I think Howell will play, I just don’t think he’ll see a ton of minutes. I think he’ll be a 10-15 minute guy. I think Wood is going to have to learn how to get his shot off against ACC defenses. And I don’t think Davis will ever play.

    Scott Wood will be a good player, I’m sure. But I think it will be when he’s a junior, not when he’s a freshman.

    Howell is ranked about where Tracy Smith was and they have about the same size. Smith wasn’t ready to contribute as a freshman to a team that lost more than it won.

  3. JVM4PACK 03/24/2009 at 12:04 PM #

    A little off topic…as many have done in the past, I sent a letter to Fowler, Oblinger, Peeler, White, Kelly, Purcell about the general disgust and frustations of the alumni, fans, and such with the overall state of our programs. This was the Chancellor’s response, I’ll copy it below.

  4. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:04 PM #

    Rivals ranks are BS at times. Russel Wilson was a two star recruit. He turned out pretty damn good. Josh Davis averaged 25points his senior year, that is more than a Trevor Fergason did. I will take him over fergie any day of the week. Plus he loves NC state, so their will be passion and he will have a no quit attitude. I bet he will be the spark of the team. He will be our motivator player. Watch and see!!

    1) It’s not the ranking. It’s the COMPLETE and total absence of scholarship offers. Again – ODU and UNCW were looking at him and didn’t offer him a scholarship.

    2) Comparing football recruits and basketball recruits is always a very stupid idea. Just don’t even go there. You can’t draw a parallel.

    3) Last time I checked, Enloe and Millbrook weren’t on our schedule for next year. If he averaged 25 points a game playing for Word of God or Oak Hill, that might be impressive. Maybe.

    4) This is the ACC. Why do we need motivation? This is the highest level. You’re playing against the best amateur basketball teams in the country.

  5. JVM4PACK 03/24/2009 at 12:06 PM #

    Re: Where is the Consistency? Where are the Championships? Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:55 PM

    From: “James Oblinger” Add sender to Contacts To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Jeremy:

    Thank you for your concern for the state of our university’s athletics programs. The facts you referenced are not lost on me, as I place significant value in the correlation between Athletics Department success and overall university growth. Like you, I would much rather win than lose – on any front.

    I appreciate your incredible passion for Wolfpack athletics and your support of our athletic and academic programs. Jeremy, I also understand the frustration and resentment you feel to see our athletics program face losses over time. Let me assure you that, as a university, we do care about winning, whether in athletics or academics—visible achievement is an indicator of a university’s success in a variety of ways.

    However, we believe that there are good times ahead for NC State Athletics and that the efforts of our supporters and donors will pay dividends in the near future. To this end, we are committed to excellence in our athletic program by supporting the entire student-athlete experience and promoting the leadership necessary for future success. I hope our efforts will inspire your pride and excitement as we strive for athletic achievement.

    Sincerely,

    James L. Oblinger
    Chancellor

  6. JVM4PACK 03/24/2009 at 12:07 PM #

    It sounds so genuine to me…but I just don’t have that warm comforted feeling if you know what I mean.

  7. ktoh 03/24/2009 at 12:07 PM #

    I don’t understand why if you question Sid’s “coaching” you are against state? I see plenty of sites that just post the company line here and yes in a day or two they will have josh davis as a lottery pick.
    I am just concerned that this ship is not turning around but going down ,it does not bode well like it or not to lose two players on scholarship. I don’t know anything about this young man coming in next year but what I can see ,what he brings is not what we sorely need,height,rebounding and shooting!

  8. wolfmans brother. 03/24/2009 at 12:16 PM #

    I think that if you draw any other conclusion from our offer to this young man than this program is in a “death spiral,” (nod to BJD) then your are simply deluding yourself. I wish him nothing but success here, etc. blah blah…..but this is clearly NOT a good sign for the overall health of the program.

  9. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:17 PM #

    The Big 3 got ripped for lack of heart and hustle, now Josh Davis gets ripped for only being heart and hustle. Sid gets ripped for not recruiting in-state players, Josh Davis is an in-state player. We bemoan the fact that no kids grow up wanting to play for NC State, Josh Davis grew up a State fan and wants to play for us.

    I’m glad he committed, and I have a hunch some people here who are bashing him now will be glad to have him for the next four years.

    No one is ripping Davis. I’m sure he plays to the best of his abilities. He can’t help it that he isn’t more talented.

  10. El_Duderino 03/24/2009 at 12:19 PM #

    Since we can’t compare basketball recruits to football recruits, I’ll post this from Wikipedia…

    Gugliotta was a skinny 6’6″, 198 pound forward as a high school senior. His father, Frank Sr., called an old friend, Jim Valvano at North Carolina State University during his senior season and told Valvano that his youngest son was going to be a special basketball player. Valvano took a chance on Gugliotta and brought him to Raleigh.”

    That one worked out pretty well.

  11. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:22 PM #

    I don’t understand why if you question Sid’s “coaching” you are against state?

    You aren’t. You’re simply running into people throwing a tantrum because they are frustrated. They LOVE “Sid.” They HATE that he’s a bad coach. You’re reminding them of this and they have nowhere else to go. It’s blast you or lay on the floor and thrash about.

    I think it’s pretty safe to assume that if “Sid” thought he could get anyone else, he would have gone after them. Looking at other team’s commitments, this kid will be the lowest ranked recruit coming into the ACC this year.

    If “Sid” thought he could make up for it next year, I think it’s safe to assume he’d just save the scholarship.

    Therefore, I think it’s safe to assume that these are the waters that Lowe will be fishing in from now on.

  12. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:24 PM #

    Gugliotta was a skinny 6′6″, 198 pound forward as a high school senior. His father, Frank Sr., called an old friend, Jim Valvano at North Carolina State University during his senior season and told Valvano that his youngest son was going to be a special basketball player. Valvano took a chance on Gugliotta and brought him to Raleigh.”

    Did Frank Gugliotta give Lowe a call? No? Why are you bringing this up?

    Anthony Carter was a 12th round draft pick. Aundray Bruce was the first pick overall. Therefore, I guess you’d trade the first pick this year for a pick in the last round?

  13. Pack Leader 03/24/2009 at 12:24 PM #

    well noah, somebody has to score the rock next year for us….. and I can garentee we wont average 30 points a game…..

    Like BJD said above “As UVA proved this year, when you have a bare cupboard, somebody ends up scoring by default.”

    I dont have any confidence what so ever that we have 1 pure scorer on our team. not 1. That leads me to assume the scoring will come from another source, and if they arnt on the team right now then guess what….. its goin to come from incoming talent. Maybe I would agree if we had some type of returners who averaged more than 7 points a game.

    Similar to McCaully his soph year, Sid didnt know what he had because he didnt play his fresh year but we had to throw him in the starting line up due to the pure fact we had no other players. You will see a similar situation this year. I imagaine we will have 30-40 points a game by freshman and/or transfers. If i had to guess it would work out similar to

    Brown 10-14 ppg
    Howell 8-12 ppg
    Wood 5-10 ppg
    Davis 1-2 ppg

    If we can have 2 freshman avg double figures then in ’10 we will have a serious chance at having team.

    Side note… anyone see us running more up pace like sid has been saying for years now???? or does anyone like me see us slowing down even more????

  14. BJD95 03/24/2009 at 12:26 PM #

    Nobody is ripping the kid. We are ripping the staff for not understanding how to properly construct a roster and space scholarships.

    However, the bottom line is the same. Lowe needs to dance next year. He can do it with a slew of undersized “heart and hustle” guys, or he can do it with big-name recruits with giant egos. I don’t really care.

    But he has to do it. Our analysis is just speculation on how good Lowe’s chances are of meeting a very reasonable goal (1 NCAAT bid in four years). I put them around 5%, which is why I seem “negative.” I certainly hope I’m wrong, and 5% is certainly better than 0%.

  15. kyjelly 03/24/2009 at 12:35 PM #

    Three freshman in double figures? Are we going to run that uptempo Sid offense again this year?
    We had a one and done top prospect in JJ who was lucky to top out at 13ppg?
    Are these kid’s in his class? Do you think the team from 2 years ago had more talent than next years will?

  16. El_Duderino 03/24/2009 at 12:36 PM #

    Noah,

    I shall connect the dots for ya. THis has been a few years ago so forgive me if my memories are hazy. Gugs dad – whom you happen to know that his first name is Frank – called Valvano told him about Gugs. Valvano didn’t think he was good enough but basically told him that ‘if we can’t find anyone else we’ll take him.’ So, there was this kid that no one wanted, who a lot of people did not think would ever amount to much who turned out the be a very good player.

    So, V took a chance on a skinny 6′ 6″ power forward that no one wanted. Lowe is taking a chance on a 6’5″ power forward that no one wants. I can see how that extra inch threw you off.

  17. Pack Leader 03/24/2009 at 12:39 PM #

    I said if we are lucky to get 2 freshman avg double figures then the future gets much brighter than expected…. not 3.

    and JJ was the only freshman in his class that played. take away 4 of our starters from that year and i bet one of our freshman would have come close to double fig. Scoring has to come from somewhere….

  18. Afterglow 03/24/2009 at 12:39 PM #

    “Josh Davis averaged 25points his senior year, that is more than a Trevor Fergason did.”

    I think that these point total averages could be deceiving. If you told me that his averages came from mid-range to out-side shooting then I might be impressed. However, what I don’t think would translate well in the ACC is if his points come from scrappy close to the basket play-unless he’s a stellar 6’10” center playing against other stellar 6’10” centers in an AAU league.

    How you get your points is in some ways maybe more important than you’re average in terms of how it translates to that next level. Hodge would be a good example of that. He could create on the college level however this did not transfer well to the NBA.

    I’m not bashing this player but I am questioning the coaching staff’s decision. I think it would excite me as a high school player to be offered a scholarship from a division one school so by all means I too think I would be tempted to take it. But what’s good for the kid is not necessarily good for the program.

  19. frankiepack 03/24/2009 at 12:43 PM #

    ^ El_duderino: Wikapedia? Well why you were in there why don’t you change Sid’s winning percentage as well. Now you are quoting wikapedia as gospel?

  20. Pack Leader 03/24/2009 at 12:43 PM #

    anyone have ANY insite to the rumors of State picking up a C or PF from a junior college????

    Even as a bonus, if he does suck like Marcus Johnson or any other bad recruit, atleast he only uses up 2 years of a scholarship…..

  21. Noah 03/24/2009 at 12:46 PM #

    Gugs dad – whom you happen to know that his first name is Frank – called Valvano told him about Gugs.

    Uh huh. Which means that Frank Gugliotta is a trusted source on talent evaluation. Did he call and recommend this guy? No? So, we’re stuck with the talent evaluation of the people who brought you Marques Johnson, Bartosz Lewandowski and Farnold Degand?

  22. dtwncsu 03/24/2009 at 12:46 PM #

    This is going to be a small ass line-up. I know Lowe wants to run, but who is going to get on the boards. The freshmen better be ready to play or we will only see two or three wins in the acc next season.

  23. wolfmans brother. 03/24/2009 at 12:47 PM #

    “In the 3 seasons that Sidney Lowe has been head coach, the only ACC team not to make the NCAAT is NC State.”

    I cannot think of a more telling statistic to define the current status of our program. Truly, truly cliff-jumping material.

  24. El_Duderino 03/24/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    frankie pack

    I am at work and was looking for a quick story on it. If you watched as much pack basketball as I did in those days you would have heard this story about 100 times. I’ll try and find another source if it makes you happy.

    If it’s a lie, it is one that has been told a lot. A LOT….

  25. BladenWolf 03/24/2009 at 12:48 PM #

    “In the 3 seasons that Sidney Lowe has been head coach, the only ACC team not to make the NCAAT is NC State. That being the case, I don’t see how expecting him to make it in his fourth season is in any way unfair as a minimum benchmark. – BJD95

    Bingo. Hit the nail on the head.

    Dance in year four or go home.

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