Day of roster changes for Wolfpack BBall (3/24 Update @ 12pm)

RALEIGH, N.C. – NC State head men’s basketball coach Sidney Lowe has announced that redshirt juniors Brandon Costner and Trevor Ferguson will forego their final year of eligibility, and not return to the Wolfpack in 2009-10.

Joe Giglio at ACCNow has a more on the roster changes at this link. He also discusses the Wolfpack’s new recruit – Josh Davis – that was already being discussed in our comments section.

Davis, a 6-5 forward, is a “tweener,” Telep said, who will add frontcourt depth for the Wolfpack, which lost Costner, a versatile forward who decided to go pro on Monday.

“They added a really nice player, with great character, who wanted to be a part of the program,” said Telep, who has Davis rated as a two-star prospect.

Additionally, Ken Tysiac added the following:

Davis averaged 25.7 points and 12 rebounds per game this season as a senior. He had been considering UNC Wilmington and had scholarship offers from Gardner-Webb and High Point. Seton Hall’s staff also wanted Davis to make a campus visit, Clemons said.

“He’s always wanted to go (to N.C. State),” Clemons said. “He always talked about N.C. State. That was his school. He worked hard enough, and was able to get an offer.”

Clemons said Davis can score on the block as a power forward and is skilled enough to play small forward.

As our readers pointed out in the comments section, there are some pros and cons to offering/accepting Davis’ commitment. I must admit I am a little perplexed by the use of the scholarship and also a little concerned at the message of potential desperation that the scholarship sends. To be very clear – I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING – but, the addition of a local kid (Athens Drive HS) that is clearly not ACC caliber talent could potentially mean that the use of the scholarship is ‘flexible’. I can only hope that *potentially* Davis gets to use the scholarship as long as the program does not need it for another, highly-rated player in this class or the future.

By all accounts, Davis is kid of high character who wanted to be a part of the program. He loves NC State and exhibits true heart and passion on the court. (Certainly something that has been lacking from our program for a long time). He averaged over 25 points a game in high school and was considered as good or better of a player than the two ‘stars’ in his conference – Earnest Ross (Auburn signee) and Garrius Adams (Miami signee).

Davis is described as a very athletic, but undersized ‘hustle player’ akin to a Simon Harris &/or Johnny Thomas (who is already on the Wolfpack’s roster). He has been recruited to play the wing forward position at State.

But, at 6’5 he not a ‘tweener’ for the only position that existing skills set supports – power forward – as his outside shooting is weak. There seems to be some debate if Seton Hall was truly looking at Davis and it appears that State ‘beat’ Gardner-Webb, Charleston Southern and High Point for Davis.

There is most definitely a fit for a Josh Davis within NC State’s Basketball program; but, I am not necessarily convinced that there is an ideal fit for Josh Davis within the current state of the Wolfpack’s program with the current composition of our roster and scholarship spacing. In light of Johnny Thomas’ presence on the roster and sophomore status, it is fair to ask the question if we have ‘over-recruited’ the ‘undersized, high character, sleeper role on the wing’. As one of our readers said, “I hope someone knows more than anybody else here or gets this kid on the juice but this seems strange even by our standards.”

Much is made about State’s struggles and needs at the point guard position…and, Ryan Harrow may be scheduled to arrive in Raleigh one year too late for Coach Lowe. But, I see an even more glaring deficiency on the Wolfpack’s roster after the departure of Brandon Costner – NC State desperately needs some size, heft and toughness in the post. Despite the addition of Richard Howell in the 2009 recruiting class, an ‘ideal’ candidate for one of the Wolfpack’s remaining scholarships would be a junior college big man – preferably a true center of close to 7 feet – who can defend, block shots and rebound. Additionally, this would be ideal for current and future scholarship spacing needs.

Of course, there is still a very small chance that NC State pulls a rabbit out of the hat and can land the nation’s top remaining recruit, John Wall. Wall’s presence may not only help boost next season’s performance, but it would also send a message to other top recruits that NC State is a place to be. (Not to mention its potential impact on re-solidifying CJ Leslie’s commitment. Oddly, landing Wall may not only be great for next year’s performance, but also for the importance of long term spacing of scholarships for the program.

Looking Forward
If State is unable to ultimately land John Wall, I agree with Giglio’s assessment of next season’s line-up:

On paper, State’s starting lineup looks like: Javier Gonzalez at the point, Brown at the 2-guard, C.J. Williams at small forward, Howell at the 4 and Smith at center.

Off the bench State has guards Julius Mays, Farnold Degand and Wood. At forward, Dennis Horner and Johnny Thomas are the other returning scholarship players, plus Davis.

Additionally, Ken Tysiac has added a great blog entry about the Wolfpack’s prospects next year that can be seen here.

When you look at the roster the Wolfpack has returning, it’s impossible to deduce that the team will be better off without Costner and reserve guard Trevor Ferguson, who also is leaving.

[snip]

As a whole, this roster will not scare North Carolina when it gets off the bus next season at the Smith Center. Against the rest of the ACC, N.C. State might hold up OK because there is a lot of backcourt talent leaving from the traditional middle-of-the-pack schools.

Toney Douglas, Tyrese Rice and Jack McClinton all were seniors, and Maryland’s Greivis Vasquez has already announced his intention to test the NBA waters.

But hoping the competition falls back to N.C. State’s level is not a where the Wolfpack hoped to be in Sidney Lowe’s fourth season.

Coach Sidney Lowe’s incoming recruiting class might turn out to be his best yet. But the members of his past classes will be sophomores and juniors next season comprising the bulk of N.C. State’s roster. Lowe’s initial difficulties gaining a foothold as a recruiter after coming to N.C. State from the NBA look like they will come home to roost next season.

Projected 2009-2010 NC State Basketball Roster

Senior Class
(1) Dennis Horner (F)
(2) Farnold Degand (PG)

Junior Class
(3) Javi Gonzalez (PG)
(4) Tracy Smith (4F)

Sophomore Class
(5) Johnny Thomas (Wing)
(6) Julius Mays (PG/SG)
(7) CJ Williams (Wing)

Freshman Class
(8) Scott Wood (Wing)
(9) Lorenzo Brown (PG/SG)
(10) Richard Howell (PF)
(11) Josh Davis (WF)
(12/13) Potential scholarships still available

2010 Commits
(12) Ryan Harrow (PG)
(13) CJ Leslie (hopeful)
(1) Departure of Dennis Horner if no other scholarships issued for 2009 class
(2) Departure of Farnold Degand if no other scholarships issued for 2009 class

2011 Commits
(1) Departure of Javi Gonzalez
(2) Departure of Tracy Smith

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217 Responses to Day of roster changes for Wolfpack BBall (3/24 Update @ 12pm)

  1. Noah 03/24/2009 at 7:51 AM #

    Not that rank means all that much but shouldn’t it be that Josh David = Unhealthy Johnny Thomas? Seems to me if I remember correctly, Johnny Thomas was a top fifty player at his position and (unless his rating has gone down since) a three star player.

    I agree. I recall Thomas being ranked somewhere in the upper 70s, but…same difference.

    Davis or David or whatever his name is sounds like a kid who would make for a good walk-on. He’d come to practice and work hard and when he got in the game, people would cheer if he scored a point.

    But, as it stands now, that’s a scholarship we won’t get back for four years.

    And you can stamp your little feet and pout all you want about how I don’t know more about recruiting than “Sid.” But — no one else offered him a scholarship. 330 D1 schools and he got exactly ONE offer. From us. Maybe those other 329 schools have coaches that know a little more than “Sid.”

  2. ktoh 03/24/2009 at 7:52 AM #

    Horner and Degand are all Sid’s as was Marques Johnson. Not writing the kid of but he is from raleigh not exactly without any publicity etc. But not knocking him but do we need another 6’5 player who cannot play guard or forward? This staff’s track record as well is not that great about finding any gems let alone hidden one’s under our noses.

  3. RBCRowdy 03/24/2009 at 7:53 AM #

    There are definitely some strikes against Sidney Lowe, but I’m not willing to put the new recruit as one of them just because rivals didn’t rate him highly. Especially when I have never seen him play. That being said, losing players with eligibility remaining and offering a scholarship to a way under the radar player does not get me excited for next season. We’ll just have to wait and see.

  4. newt 03/24/2009 at 8:04 AM #

    When you get down to your 4th and 5th recruit in a single season, and you want an 8-man rotation and good chemistry, it seems logical that you would bring in:

    1 – by all accounts a hustle player
    2 – local fellow
    3 – loves NC State
    4 – good skills, athletic, and still growing

    If Josh Davis gives the starters all they can handle in practice for 4 years and earns his degree, then he was a good recruit. More than that is icing for us and certainly a good goal for him. I mean this with total respect. All teams need players like this.

  5. NCMike 03/24/2009 at 8:05 AM #

    “Is this the beginning of the end?”

    Actually, looks more like the end of the end.

  6. GAWolf 03/24/2009 at 8:05 AM #

    NOAH: I have no independent knowledge of this, but I read somewhere that Xavier offered him a scholarship immediately after the tournament where he was named MVP. That was somewhere on the internet, so we all know it must be true.

  7. jbpackfan 03/24/2009 at 8:24 AM #

    I agree Wulfpack, but can’t we just welcome a new player without bashing him. None of us have ever seen him play. Perhaps he’ll be a very good practice player for a couple years and a leader in the locker room. Just give him a chance to prove himself.

  8. Noah 03/24/2009 at 8:24 AM #

    If Josh Davis gives the starters all they can handle in practice for 4 years and earns his degree, then he was a good recruit.

    If we had a team full of ACC-caliber players, I would agree with you. We don’t. We have a starting lineup filled with guys who would probably be role players on the top half of the teams in this league.

    This is just my opinion, you’re welcome to form your own…but looking at the class coming in, I see one guy who should have a serious impact (Brown). I think Howell will be a reserve who could see some minutes. He’ll help, but I don’t think he’ll be a difference-maker. Scott Wood is one of those guys who will be a good player by his junior year. But freshmen with big reputations as shooters usually spend their first year learning how to get their shots off faster and learning how to play defense. Davis will spend 99 percent of the season wearing warmups and cheering on his teammates.

    That’s my take on the team. And it would be my take even if Lowe got fired today and replaced with the greatest coach in the history of basketball.

  9. Wulfpack 03/24/2009 at 8:27 AM #

    I’m not knocking the new recruit. What I amb saying is this program is dead and I’m sick and tired of it.

  10. kyjelly 03/24/2009 at 8:36 AM #

    I wish the kid well and good luck ,but I don’t think Sid should be tossing around scholarships on reaches.
    Also there is no truth to davis being offered a sholarship to xavier ,well not the one in cincy anyhow.

  11. El_Duderino 03/24/2009 at 8:44 AM #

    Couple of things.

    Welcome to Raleigh Josh Davis.

    Harrison Beck – very highly recruited. Russell Wilson – not so much. A bit undersized too…

  12. Alpha Wolf 03/24/2009 at 8:45 AM #

    There seem to be a lot of talk about Davis and Xavier, pro and con, with no links at all. Anyone care to put up something other than hearsay?

  13. choppack1 03/24/2009 at 8:52 AM #

    First off, I think a recent history of these type of players shows that they usually do pretty well in a somewhat very selective sense.

    One of the things that I’ve noticed in my observations of high school players from the Triangle area is that there are a lot of these type of kids who do well at the next level. Averaging 25 ppg lets us know the kid can put it in the basket. The overarching question is will this kid grow another inch or two – which will let him play the 4 spot or can he develop an outside shot.

    However, make no mistake about it – a 6-5 kid can play the 3 and even 4 spots for a limited amount of time, even at this level. Heck, that’s exactly what David McClure does, and he’s not even 6-5. Where you do run into trouble is when you play a team like UNC, where he’d have to guard an Ed Davis or Deon Thompson or Zeller.

    A great coach can take kids like these and compete. The team will have to utilize pressure and basically play a hyperintensive style of a Duke. I’ve been watching a lot of the tournament – and it’s not like these teams are all a bunch of giants. What most of them do is play hard – and play fast.

  14. Wolfpack_1995 03/24/2009 at 8:55 AM #

    As Marley says “You think it’s the end, but it’s just the beginning(OF Groundhog Day)!”

    Has Sid ever finished in the upper echelon of any league he has coached? I don’t thing so. That is including the NBA, CBA, and NCAA.

    How can we expect Sid to ever finish in the top half of the ACC next year if he has no proven track record from previous head coaching stints? How much slack are we going to give him. It’s been three years and all we have are two 10th place finishes and one last place finish.

    The former coach would have been more successful in hindsight.

    I’m sorry but the wheels ARE coming off and I see Jed and donors jumping off of the “Sid bandwagon” soon if money stops flowing in.

  15. Noah 03/24/2009 at 9:00 AM #

    However, make no mistake about it – a 6-5 kid can play the 3 and even 4 spots for a limited amount of time, even at this level.

    He’s 6-5, 200 pounds.

  16. packof81 03/24/2009 at 9:03 AM #

    Like others, I’m glad to see these 2 guys get their degrees. Trevor was a trooper from the git-go. I tip my hat to him. Costner was a cornerstone but became attitudinal at times. I hope things are better for him in the pros.

    So now it’s all Sid’s guys. If these guys are going to win, it’s going to be because of hustle and fundamentals. They all need to spend the summer shooting free throws. They should shoot 100 free throws a day. Sid and his staff should run these guys until they don’t get winded in a game. Drills, drills and more drills. If we’re going to lose next year, let’s lose because we were simply outclassed rather than outplayed and let’s not lose at the free throw line.

  17. whitefang 03/24/2009 at 9:03 AM #

    Actually I appreciated JV’s perspective.
    The fact that we used a scholarship on this kid is suspect because we aren’t exactly knee deep in talent. If we had a bench full of talented players and we bring in a good local kid for 4 years to see if he can make a contribution by his junior year that’s one thing (think Will Roach). Where we are currently, even with a better class next year, you can’t say that. This kids “profile” looks like he would be stretch at being able to help us. Having said that I hope he is the ultimate diamond in the rough.
    I HOPE this is the “end of the end.” Because if its the beginning of the end, the end is gonna really look bad.

  18. choppack1 03/24/2009 at 9:06 AM #

    Noah – and I’m saying that he can play the 3 spot all day at that height – and can play the 4 for a limited amount of time against a significant amount of opponents, even in the ACC.

    For example, I think you could have an athletic 6-5 person guard the 4 spot at times vs. BC, UMd, UVa, VaTech, Duke, Clemson, and Miami. Against FSU, GaTech, Wake and UNC – that’s another story.

  19. old13 03/24/2009 at 9:15 AM #

    I hate to make the comparison, but it’s the only one I can think of: You-know-who has been at ASU the same time that Sid has been at NCSU, and he started with a seemingly worse roster than Sid. ASU played for the Pac-10 championship this year and went to the NCAAT. The future of ASU BB looks bright (within the context of you-know-who’s known coaching ceiling and limitations.) What is the current view of Wolfpack BB’s future!

    Let’s NOT go down this road. That debate is over, done, and has a fork sticking out of it’s well done arse.

  20. Gene 03/24/2009 at 9:17 AM #

    Give Josh Davis a chance to play before dumping on him. As far as not finding any diamonds in the rough go, it usually takes a couple of years to polish up those rough diamonds and they usually don’t start show as star players until their junior year. Usually the freshman year is a wash, sophomore year shows improvement, and by their junior year they are very good players.

    Javi went from being a hopeless, lost cause, to at least competent. I think with his experience and renewed confidence the PG position won’t be the issue it’s been for the past several years.

    What will be an issue is can the offense get points, when the sets aren’t working, since still don’t have a player who can break down an opponent one-on-one and create his own shot at will, when things aren’t working. But that’s a problem that predates the current coaching staff and will haunt any future coaches.

  21. kyjelly 03/24/2009 at 9:34 AM #

    We are going on 4 years now, and even giving Sid a pass on his first year of recruiting.We have not addressed anything as far as personal and now with the gang of 3 ,gone there is no excuse and look what we have in place roster wise.
    Javi and May’s will be just what they are up and down I am afraid.

  22. Noah 03/24/2009 at 9:35 AM #

    If we had a bench full of talented players and we bring in a good local kid for 4 years to see if he can make a contribution by his junior year that’s one thing (think Will Roach). Where we are currently, even with a better class next year, you can’t say that. This kids “profile” looks like he would be stretch at being able to help us. Having said that I hope he is the ultimate diamond in the rough.

    That’s 100 percent how I feel.

    Look, Anthony Carter was a 12th round draft pick. Ryan Leaf was a first round draft pick. But if you think that trading first round draft picks for 12th round draft picks is a good idea…

    If history is any sort of guide, the odds are that this kid will never contribute. Even if he does eventually become a quality player…he isn’t going to do it next year. And right now, that’s what we need.

    Can he shoot? No.
    Can he play point guard? No.
    Can he play down low? No.

    Well, that doesn’t really help us. We already have two 6-5 wing guys that are good athletes and neither one of them are winning us a whole lot of games these days.

  23. newt 03/24/2009 at 9:49 AM #

    Noah – We’re in basic agreement. We need more impact players, and Josh is probably not that as people would like to hope (though he can contribute as described). I’m curious to see what JUCO players we are looking at.

  24. sickofhate 03/24/2009 at 9:50 AM #

    Okay I can help you guys out. I go to athens high school and Josh davis is awesome he literally shredded the competition I dont care who you were he either got by you or jumped up and slammed it on you hes a great athlete has great character and I dont think sid could have gotten a better recruit trust me ha ha hes awesome glad hes going to be a a part of the pack.

    SFN: ^ Thanks for sharing! Please change your user name to something more appropriate for this website. Thanks, again!

  25. Rochester 03/24/2009 at 9:57 AM #

    Wasn’t P.J. Tucker 6-5 coming out of high school? Didn’t we pass on him because he was too short?

    Having not seen Davis play I don’t want to compare him to Tucker, but maybe someone who has seen him play (i.e. our coaching staff) saw something promising there.

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